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[jackmeoff1]

Strange because I’m 6’6 must of been conversion at some point haha. Maybe doesn’t affect height.

what can be done if your conversion sucks? And is there any use even using GH then

You have to inject igf 1 directly.

 

[Richard322]

insulin does not lose its effects, else diabetics had quite a huge problem. It is just that you do not feel the side effects as pronounced as at the beginning.

No your right but growth hormone counter acts it by occupying the insulin receptors inhibiting insulin from lowering your blood sugar. After some time on 20units of gh, 20iu of insulin will only drop your blood sugar 30 to 50 points on a blood glucose monitor. Come off the gh then take 20 units of insulin no gh and it will drop it a 100 points or more. Good to keep in mind when taking that much gh to prevent miscalculating your carbs and putting yourself in a dangerous position. And if diabetics took that much gh they would have the same problem.

 

[M@NU]

well, now it sounds differently. What you say is true, but this is mostly due to the fact that 20iu hgh will ramp up your fasting BS quite fast. This is mostly the reason why, over time, you might require slightly more inslun.
I have no experience with that amount of hgh. But i can agree that i could tolerate more insulin per carb when ive took 9iu of hgh than i did when ive used 5iu. Also, now after starting dieting i have to be much more cautious with insulin. 7iu pre and i require over 90g carbs to counteract

 

[Richard322]

well, now it sounds differently. What you say is true, but this is mostly due to the fact that 20iu hgh will ramp up your fasting BS quite fast. This is mostly the reason why, over time, you might require slightly more inslun.
I have no experience with that amount of hgh. But i can agree that i could tolerate more insulin per carb when ive took 9iu of hgh than i did when ive used 5iu. Also, now after starting dieting i have to be much more cautious with insulin. 7iu pre and i require over 90g carbs to counteract

Yea sorry bud, immune to insulin was the wrong word or misleading, more like artificially insulin resistant.

 

[mtt]

You have to inject igf 1 directly.

Who is providing IGF nowadays?

 

[mands]

Even though some users are low responders for conversion to igf-1 doesn't mean that GH isn't beneficial.

IGF-1 isn't the end all or be all for running GH.

mands

 

[M@NU]

is there someone who has run both optis and jins and can make a comparision?
thanks guys

 

[138casanova]

is there someone who has run both optis and jins and can make a comparision?
thanks guys

I have run the 120s, and I am on the Jins now. I tested IGF on the 120s running 4IU daily and got 415. I was experiencing water retention and pretty bad CTS at 4IU, so I went off for a week, got back on and titrated back up to 3.3IU daily until I switched to the Jins.

I'm taking 3IU daily of the Jins, and I have used six bottles so far I haven't tested on the Jins yet, but I plan to do so in the next couple of weeks to compare.

Anecdotally, I feel better on the Jins. Less water retention and much more mild CTS symptoms. I have also noticed excelerated fat loss with no other real changes to my lifestyle. I track my sleep with the Oura ring, and I'm sleeping better, too. Again, all that is anecdotal, but thought I would share. I'll post my Jin bloodwork once I have it.

I like both products, but I'm going to stay on the Jins for awhile, pending bloodwork.

 

[M@NU]

thanks for the detailed information.
Ill be starting optis soon. Searching for a brand with as little water retention as possible. I will try 2-3 kits and then i will see if i try jins (if i get my hands on them in the EU)

 

[138casanova]

thanks for the detailed information.
Ill be starting optis soon. Searching for a brand with as little water retention as possible. I will try 2-3 kits and then i will see if i try jins (if i get my hands on them in the EU)

FWIW, I didn't get any water retention on the 120s until I started my second kit. Not sure why.

 

[Richard322]

The weather is heating up and we know heat degrades the product. Would over night shipping be something to consider? Has anyone ever test the product winter vs summer? How much does it get degraded? Because of this I never order during the summer. And I ask because I just placed an order and it’s getting hot.

 

[muscletrain]

The weather is heating up and we know heat degrades the product. Would over night shipping be something to consider? Has anyone ever test the product winter vs summer? How much does it get degraded? Because of this I never order during the summer. And I ask because I just placed an order and it’s getting hot.

Should effect Opti's kits/pucks, this is vastly overstated as testing by @janoshik I believe showed there is very little if any effect non re-constituted vials. unless you're getting pharma mixed pens I would not worry.

 

[mtt]

Even though some users are low responders for conversion to igf-1 doesn't mean that GH isn't beneficial.

IGF-1 isn't the end all or be all for running GH.

mands

It's been so ingrained in me that it's IGF that really counts. What really accounts for muscle hypertrophy. What other benefits, from a bodybuilding perspective, does
HGH provide for a bodybuilder?

 

[138casanova]

It's been so ingrained in me that it's IGF that really counts. What really accounts for muscle hypertrophy. What other benefits, from a bodybuilding perspective, does
HGH provide for a bodybuilder?

Recovery and fat loss for a couple.

 

[malfeasance]

I have run the 120s, and I am on the Jins now. I tested IGF on the 120s running 4IU daily and got 415. I was experiencing water retention and pretty bad CTS at 4IU, so I went off for a week, got back on and titrated back up to 3.3IU daily . . .

So how did titrating up work? I was getting swollen ankles on 3 iu daily. I stopped hgh several days ago. Most of the swelling, but not all, is gone. I am waiting for it to go away completely before slowly working my way back up.

To be fair, I was getting swollen ankles on serostim at 3 iu, too. I stopped completely for several days until it went away but hopped on the Optis at 3 iu without titrating at all. Ankle swelling resumed within days. Did titrating work for you?

 

[138casanova]

So how did titrating up work? I was getting swollen ankles on 3 iu daily. I stopped hgh several days ago. Most of the swelling, but not all, is gone. I am waiting for it to go away completely before slowly working my way back up.

To be fair, I was getting swollen ankles on serostim at 3 iu, too. I stopped completely for several days until it went away but hopped on the Optis at 3 iu without titrating at all. Ankle swelling resumed within days. Did titrating work for you?

I took a full seven days off. The water retention finally subsided around day five or six. I titrated back up with 1IU for first week, 2IU second week, and 3.3IU the third week. I felt much better when I did it that way. Some water retention came back, but probably 75% less or more. Someone else in here had done that and recommended it bc it worked for him, too. You probably already know this, but you can also manage your carbs with heavy and light days, and that helps with water retention.

Good luck! [emoji109]

 

[muscletrain]

So how did titrating up work? I was getting swollen ankles on 3 iu daily. I stopped hgh several days ago. Most of the swelling, but not all, is gone. I am waiting for it to go away completely before slowly working my way back up.

To be fair, I was getting swollen ankles on serostim at 3 iu, too. I stopped completely for several days until it went away but hopped on the Optis at 3 iu without titrating at all. Ankle swelling resumed within days. Did titrating work for you?

Titrating works quite well I will say if you are prone to issues. I know it's annoying but I find 1iu per week up to desired dose and I had no water/swolen ankles or any CTS on Opti grey's.

 

[malfeasance]

I took a full seven days off. The water retention finally subsided around day five or six. I titrated back up with 1IU for first week, 2IU second week, and 3.3IU the third week. I felt much better when I did it that way. Some water retention came back, but probably 75% less or more. Someone else in here had done that and recommended it bc it worked for him, too. You probably already know this, but you can also manage your carbs with heavy and light days, and that helps with water retention.

Good luck! [emoji109]

On the serostim I was eating 600-1000 grams of carbs, so . . .

I am taking a bit of a break, though, to feel human again, and still my ankles swelled.

I have not had this issue before, but I think I have always been cutting when on hgh before this bulk . . .

 

[138casanova]

On the serostim I was eating 600-1000 grams of carbs, so . . .

I am taking a bit of a break, though, to feel human again.

It could be placebo, but I feel great on 3IU of Jins. Been on for almost four weeks. Started at 2IU for the first two weeks. My sense of well-being is better, if that makes any sense.

 

[dane.dawg]

I was wondering if everyone's 120iu kits are vacuum sealed??