PCT should be based mostly on clomid, right?

[Spaceman Spiff]

bro but those few studies where they use tamox for fertility its all just increase of seminal volume of course its gonna do that with how it increases lh and fsh but then theres also all the stuff like this:

1st study is long term usage.
we arent using it long term

2 and 3 are literally on mice.

"doctor who doesnt even lift or take steroids said it was a good idea in his book he wrote in the 70s"
WTF does this have to do with tamoxifen?

no but ive been told estrogen is essential for how the testes function and maintain leydig cell health which i found another couple studies on in rats..

Whoever told you has been feeding you wrong information.

How does this even have to do with anything in regards to understanding hormone signaling? Cause honestly, the more you talk about this, the less it shows you know what is going on.

And then you are constructing conclusions with no knowledge other than "My bro told me at the gym"

Recovery of spermatogenesis following testosterone replacement therapy or anabolic-androgenic steroid use - PMC

The use of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for hypogonadism continues to rise, particularly in younger men who may wish to remain fertile. Concurrently, awareness of a more pervasive use of anabolic-androgenic steroids (AAS) within the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Country Club Hero]

I would use both. Plus supps like Tribulus and fadogia agrestis. Back when I cycled I would use HCG on cycle and then the above items I mentioned for PCT.

My sex drive was higher during PCT than it was on cycle. And I’m pretty sure my natty T-levels were higher after a PCT like that than pre-cycle.

 

[dafqu1]

im not talking about hormone signaling or anything. I talk a lot of shit but the main thing im trying to focus on is how tamoxifen has all of these paradoxical hypogonadal effects that shouldnt be happening with how it increases lh/fsh. the theory is that these effects are caused by it blocking estrogen to the testis

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

im not talking about hormone signaling or anything. I talk a lot of shit but the main thing im trying to focus on is how tamoxifen has all of these paradoxical hypogonadal effects that shouldnt be happening with how it increases lh/fsh. the theory is that these effects are caused by it blocking estrogen to the testis

Let me get this straight.
-You are not talking about hormone signaling
- but you are talking about how estrogen(hormone) is not signaling to the testes?

Estrogen has nothing to do with the testes dude.

Do you see where I am coming from? your argument is extremely poor because you don't know what you are even talking about.




In all honesty, I am done with this conversation. You really have no idea what the hell you are talking about. I hope other people see it too

 

[dafqu1]

Let me get this straight.
-You are not talking about hormone signaling
- but you are talking about how estrogen(hormone) is not signaling to the testes?

Estrogen has nothing to do with the testes dude.

Do you see where I am coming from? your argument is extremely poor because you don't know what you are even talking about.


View attachment 271454

In all honesty, I am done with this conversation. You really have no idea what the hell you are talking about. I hope other people see it too

fuck u comic fag boy go jerk off to garfield bitch

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

fuck u comic fag boy go jerk off to garfield bitch

You are so smart. Another way to show your intelligence by combining a bunch of insults that doesn't flow well. I can tell you are 17-18(or have the brain of one)

 

[RiceNKimchi]

Haha this went to shit. Pct should be based off of a serm. I use to mainly use nolva, the times I used clomid I had emotional sides. I have not used Enclomiphene which does not have the zucom isomer. I recovered with nolva in the time I was not on trt. Torem is another option. Ralox I've used on cycle for its affinity forward brest issue, but it's not good for pct.

 

[dafqu1]

You are so smart. Another way to show your intelligence by combining a bunch of insults that doesn't flow well. I can tell you are 17-18(or have the brain of one)

sorry bro i just had to vent cuz i dont actually care that much whether other people take it and i realized i just spent like 2 hours looking up all this old shit wasting my time for no reason

 

[Drex]

Hi,

This is the exact discussion i need to be on now, Need some suggestions on the pct.

I ran a cycle for 8 weeks with test + primo. Now i am looking to do PCT, i have clomid on hand. I am thinking about getting (clomid + nolvadex) or (run HCG one shot per week + clomid) to be on a safer side.

what's your suggestion? @Drex

The best important thing is that you should make an blood test to know the values of the all hormonal parameters.

With this information you could generate a good PCT protocol.

You used steroids for small time and its probably that you recover your natural levels in a little bit time. But at the beginning (without blood test), its probably that you use tamoxifen (40mg per day for 2 weeks and the next weeks with 20 mg) and clomid (100mg per day for 2 weeks and other 2 weeks with 50mg) for 4 weeks in total. When you finish you have to make other blood test for checkin the parameters again like LH, FSH, SHBG, Testosterone, Estradiol, Prolactina,...and if all is good, perfect, but if there is some parameter altered, you should extend the protol for more weeks or depend

Regards,

 

[marsupial]

Haha this went to shit. Pct should be based off of a serm. I use to mainly use nolva, the times I used clomid I had emotional sides. I have not used Enclomiphene which does not have the zucom isomer. I recovered with nolva in the time I was not on trt. Torem is another option. Ralox I've used on cycle for its affinity forward brest issue, but it's not good for pct.

I’m pretty sensitive to high estrogen in terms of sleep and mood (but not gyno). Probably a good idea for me to forego clomid and just try nolva only pct?

 

[RiceNKimchi]

I’m pretty sensitive to high estrogen in terms of sleep and mood (but not gyno). Probably a good idea for me to forego clomid and just try nolva only pct?

Clomid is a hit or miss on the sides. It takes a week or so for the zuclom to build, so it takes time for it to go away as well. Nolva is just better tolerated for myself and what I've seen in others

 

[Peterson]

Hope enclomiphene gets more popular, by far the best serm imo

 

[GuerillaPete]

Hcg followed by enclo followed by aromasin tapered at the end.
This would be my go to pct.

 

[Peterson]

Hcg followed by enclo followed by aromasin tapered at the end.
This would be my go to pct.

Why add an AI at all?

 

[GuerillaPete]

Why add an AI at all?

Because estradiol is suppressive and with enclo you still have pretty high estradiol.
Aromasin does what enclo does just with low estradiol.
If anything i would remove the enclo.
I just don’t know if aromasin works the same with suppressed LH and Fsh coming off cycle as it does with those still functioning just on the low end.
So the enclo is just to be sure but could be unnecessary and hcg with aromasin might be enough.
Both ways less side effects than the regular clomid/nolva pct.

 

[mochul]

Because estradiol is suppressive and with enclo you still have pretty high estradiol.
Aromasin does what enclo does just with low estradiol.
If anything i would remove the enclo.
I just don’t know if aromasin works the same with suppressed LH and Fsh coming off cycle as it does with those still functioning just on the low end.
So the enclo is just to be sure but could be unnecessary and hcg with aromasin might be enough.
Both ways less side effects than the regular clomid/nolva pct.

Nuking your e2 isn’t healthy at all.

 

[GuerillaPete]

Nuking your e2 isn’t healthy at all.

What does nuking mean?
Did you know aromasin acts differently in absence of exogenous testosterone?
Also estradiol is suppressive…
Add 1+1 together and you will figure it out

 

[RiceNKimchi]

Everyone has their way of doing things, as long as the bloods are taken you should never be nuking your e. Nuking your e comes from guessing and not taking bloods.

 

[benfrankparkway]

I am 1 week into my pct. I am using 20mg Tamox, 12.5mg Enclomid. My joints are absolutely killing me. They are cracking and dry feeling also cold. To the point that I cant squat and I am really pushing myself. I used HCG my whole cycle and 3 weeks leading up to PCT.

Are these symptoms low e2? I planned on bloodwork after pct was over to see if I recovered but should I be checking e2 levels now?