Never had that issue
But I aromatise fairly readily.
For mez 200mg Primo with 200mg Test and my e2 is perfect.
MESO-Rx
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Never had that issue
But I aromatise fairly readily.
For mez 200mg Primo with 200mg Test and my e2 is perfect.
I’m running into this issue currently, still waiting for my bloodwork appointment but I have the usual lower estrogen side effects and I’m taking just over 700 primo with 600 test, increasing the test is the last thing I want to do so I’ve been using a low dose of dbol the past few days whilst I decide what to do. What did your E2 come back at?
skippinglegday
Member
Same brother... sucks ass as i want to run primo higher than 300 mg and i probably will never go above 600mg test, so it's an issue.
Both EQ and Primo have me running test 2:1 or else i get low e2 and make no gains. Learned this the hard way last cycle.
This time around i want to let my e2 run as high as it can, but the primo is limiting me hard. Im a low aromatizer naturally, so primo is tough on my e2.
Fattyone
Well-known Member
What are the reasons for having a hard set at 600mg/wk test? Obviously you are free to do as you wish and I respect that, just curious is all.
No I don’t mean it’s hard set or anything, I just try to use enough testosterone in order to provide enough estradiol so my health and mood doesn’t go to shit. The only problem I’d have with increasing testosterone further is just higher weekly drug dosage which is obviously worse for your health (and I don’t think I’m at a point where I warrant 1.6grams a week to put on muscle mass), and the fact that testosterone is fairly androgenic and thus not as ‘refined’ or healthy as say primobolan or Anavar.
Androgenicity is what seems to result in worse health outcomes from what we see in the medical literature anyway, and even though the assays we have aren’t exactly accurate for humans, I think most people can agree that primobolan is far less androgenic than testosterone.
Skarpyona
Member
How significantly would you say low E2 impacted your gains development?
Is there a reason for not wanting to go over 600mg of test? Personal preference, sides? I'd figure with low aromatisation, that negates a majority of the problems high test would bring on.
I'm at the opposite end of the scale. I aromatize just looking at test. 500mg/wk had me needing 12.5mg of aromasin ed or else I ballooned up. Only saving grace is I can go wild with Primo and Mast.
skippinglegday
Member
Good questions man. I would say E2 is literally night and day difference. My first cycle which i ran with my best friend, i was like every other guy at first, had no idea how to manage E2 or how i would aromatize. So i went till week 5 until i got blood work and it showed my E2 being 5X the normal range, i swear to god. Started taking 12.5mg aromasin by feel, mostly once a week, sometimes once every 2 weeks, and my e2 was still very high, despite that i felt great apart from having a little softer erections and hit and miss libido. Muscle building wise it was amazing, i looked full as fuck and was getting huge, put on 20 lbs solid that cycle and remained 10% bf. I know it's hard to believe but i can post a picture for proof.
Next cycle comes and i do 500/500 test/eq, i look good, veiny, lean, dick works fine, but my libido is non-existent and i get annoyed easier. Take bloodwork mid-cycle and see that my E2 is crashed. It's at 6. Shit... i wasted all this time for negligible gains. I instantly drop the eq down to 250mg but it has a crazy half-life, so i don't get to experience that same muscle-building as i did at first. It went back to low/mid-range but never got up to high again. Also, i didn't feel nearly as good mentally as i did on high E2. I think it's a lot about balancing the E2:TT ratio. I also learned this time around that E2 is very cardioprotective and anabolic. Low is VERY unhealthy.
EQ and Primo seem to be the holy grail for people like you who aromatize a lot. My best friend included. He felt shit the first cycle, developed gyno, and was bloated as fuck despite taking 12.5mg aromasin twice or three times a week. Second cycle which was the test/eq one he had an amazing time, made amazing gains, and didn't even need aromasin. So it's very interesting to think about.
As for not wanting to go above 600mg test, i don't see a reason for it, not to sound like a douche but i think i look better than 99% people on test alone, i have a hard work ethic, decent genetics and my diet is on point. So i don't see the need to go above 1g total gear. More gear equals more side effects, and i try to run a healthier approach than the majority. If i was competing i would see a reason to do it, but i don't. I am in it for the marathon, not the sprint.
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ludi_janez
Member
Test sides are not all about aromatisation. Test is test. Its a male hormone, that comes with its own sides. Its an anabolic hormone, just like estrogen, that causes water retention on its own, even if your E2 is crashed.
The days when people thought, oh im holding water, my E2 is high, lets take arimidex and crash my normal estrogen, are long gone, or at least they should be.
Skarpyona
Member
Thank you for the insight and taking the time to answer. It's much appreciated.
I describe myself and share the same opinions as you do in this post. I believe E2 is major contributing factor to gains. For the majority, they compensate their lack of diet, descipline, consistently and work ethic with running more much gear. Unfortunately with Covid and birth of my first child I didn't work out for 4 months I start cycle in April at 5'8" and 175lbs (16-18% BF) I was been below 10% BF for the past 5 years before covid. I look like shit at 190lbs and 14% bf, however, this is the look many people have at gym. Lots of muscle mass and high BF.
If you haven't run DHB I think it up your ally.
JackedSwiss
New Member
Can you expand on the lower dosage primobolan effects?
This gives me great hope I dont have to run 400-600 for long periods..
Did a cruise, TRT with 200mg Primo
absolutely loved it.
felt amazing the whole time
Nice fullness and really helped maintaining strength during a minor deficit
JackedSwiss
New Member
Perfect literally doing that now.
do you remember at what point running primo you looked in the mirror and thought.."hmm nice!"?
MFMC
Well-known Member
I agree 100%
CooSee
Member
I did a 500mg/week Schering brand Primo 10wk cycle 13 years ago (I was 23) and it literally changed my physique forever. I probably gained 7lbs of LBM. I've tried 600mg primo cycle with UGL and it seemed about 1/2 the effect. Probably still lots of faking of Primo IMO. But it's nice stuff. Zero sides except for the best hard ons in the world.
ItsDaBoii
Well-known Member
how about hair loss?
ludi_janez
Member
Did any of you guys notice post-primo depression or anxiety? Anytime i stop primo, this happens to me, but i don't know if it is because of that. And i never pct, always trt.
I suppose primo is actually a strong androgen in some tissues, as it causes hair-loss in a lot of individuals.
So maybe after you drop primo, there is a huge drop in DHT in the brain, thats how i explain it to myself.
I suppose primo is actually a strong androgen in some tissues, as it causes hair-loss in a lot of individuals.
So maybe after you drop primo, there is a huge drop in DHT in the brain, thats how i explain it to myself.
CooSee
Member
I don't remember, but it must not have been too bad (since I don't remember). I do thin, but am about 95% still there at 36 YO
CooSee
Member
Never for me. I think the psychological responses to juices vary a LOT
Groundfighter
Well-known Member
I'm grabbing 3 bottles to try for my first time.
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