Qingdao Sigma Chemical Co., Ltd (International, US, EU, Canada and Australia domestic

[bonacris]

Thanks for the link. I'm not denying the lower temp for shorter time period isn't sufficient for "sterilization" my position is simply that the lower temperature while destroying the cell walls of said bacterial spores is sufficient, it's not sufficient to render the endotoxins of the cell walls of decayed bacteria cells denatured. In fact it will actually release more endotoxins unless you heat sufficiently to destroy the endotoxins. Now whether or not this high prolonged heat will denature the hormones themselves that would require more research than I'm willing to throw at this question. In over 25 years of Homebrewing I've yet to ever terminally sterilize my end product, the BA and .22 micron filtering does all that's necessary. Will 25 years of slow minute heavy metals and endotoxin exposure get me? Who knows, with all the contaminated supplements, greens, produce, fluoride, meats, processed foods etc I'm assuming it's cumulative effects over many years of everything we do adds up. I'm not too worried about the supplements and most people aren't, I don't think these hormones are magnitudes worse than the food and water we ingest daily.

Meh, I’m tired of this topic. Everyone is welcome to spend money for endotoxin testing, we will call the first one to do it a hero.

My post was on error. Should have said "I would take that bet".

I've sent hundreds of our product for endotoxin testing over the years, all with high microbial counts, and 99% were below the detection limit of 0.5 EU. Only 1 ever came back with a level of 5 EU.

Only Gram negative organisms produce endotoxin, so if you do have a dirty process but it's mostly Gram positive organisms (staph, strep, micrococci, etc), you get no endotoxin result.

Just to touch on this topic. I have tested multiple raws and my homebrew for endotoxin and total viables but open to discuss more. I've been brewing for over 10years.

I extracted my oil (Gso) in LRW for 2hours while shaking at 120rpm on an orbital shaker. I took an aloquat and tested it using kinetic turbidmetric method on a plate reader. We use the AAMI ST72 bacterial endotoxin standard.
There was no enhancement/ inhibition and the results came out at <0.05

TVCs came back low in the 1-2 cfu per ml

I would love to print out results but I would have to have a paper trail and issue lab IDs for samples. It's an ISO 17025 accredited lab but we work primarily for Biomedical devices

 

[DECLAN]

Just to touch on this topic. I have tested multiple raws and my homebrew for endotoxin and total viables but open to discuss more. I've been brewing for over 10years.

I extracted my oil (Gso) in LRW for 2hours while shaking at 120rpm on an orbital shaker. I took an aloquat and tested it using kinetic turbidmetric method on a plate reader. We use the AAMI ST72 bacterial endotoxin standard.
There was no enhancement/ inhibition and the results came out at <0.05

TVCs came back low in the 1-2 cfu per ml

I would love to print out results but I would have to have a paper trail and issue lab IDs for samples. It's an ISO 17025 accredited lab but we work primarily for Biomedical devices

It’s great to see someone actually did the groundwork.

So what’s the danger if any to be injecting that said amount?

 

[onlyontrt]

Kind of thinking of spending the whole MOQ on test and wont have to worry about TRT for the next 16 years

 

[Benf15harp]

Kind of thinking of spending the whole MOQ on test and wont have to worry about TRT for the next 16 years

 

[TirzSemaRet]

Kind of thinking of spending the whole MOQ on test and wont have to worry about TRT for the next 16 years

6 kits of test will last you 16 years?

 

[jj89]

6 kits of test will last you 16 years?

At 180mg a week it'll last almost exactly that long

 

[DECLAN]

6 kits of test will last you 16 years?

His name checks out though.

 

[TirzSemaRet]

His name checks out though.

I'm just saying what happens when TRT isn't enough and you got to start banging grams.... You better get 12 kits

 

[bonacris]

S

It’s great to see someone actually did the groundwork.

So what’s the danger if any to be injecting that said amount?

Sorry I just saw I put down per ml and not 10ml as I was using a full 10ml vial. So 1-2 cfu/ 10ml which is <1/ml.

 

[onlyontrt]

I'm just saying what happens when TRT isn't enough and you got to start banging grams.... You better get 12 kits

lmao well even if i run a cycle that'll bring it down to maybe..idk 12 years instead of 16 lol

Even on cycles I run low test I aromatize heavy and always have to donate blood almost immediately.

 

[TirzSemaRet]

lmao well even if i run a cycle that'll bring it down to maybe..idk 12 years instead of 16 lol

Even on cycles I run low test I aromatize heavy and always have to donate blood almost immediately.

All I'm hearing is you need to buy more Primo.....

 

[onlyontrt]

All I'm hearing is you need to buy more Primo.....

ive done 1:1 primo test all from QSC and it didn't do anything for my e2.

 

[Ghoul]

Just to touch on this topic. I have tested multiple raws and my homebrew for endotoxin and total viables but open to discuss more. I've been brewing for over 10years.

I extracted my oil (Gso) in LRW for 2hours while shaking at 120rpm on an orbital shaker. I took an aloquat and tested it using kinetic turbidmetric method on a plate reader. We use the AAMI ST72 bacterial endotoxin standard.
There was no enhancement/ inhibition and the results came out at <0.05

TVCs came back low in the 1-2 cfu per ml

I would love to print out results but I would have to have a paper trail and issue lab IDs for samples. It's an ISO 17025 accredited lab but we work primarily for Biomedical devices

Excellent details regarding the test. I've read that pharmaceuticals in lipid based carriers are difficult to test because of interference caused by oil coated endotoxins failing to react with LRW. Obviously your controls showed that wasn't an issue.

My primary interest has been in adapting the Terminal Sterilization process specified in a Test-Cyp formula for compounding pharmacies, for end users. Given its ability to reduce Sterility Assurance Level from the 1 in 1000 risk of pathogen infected gear using .22 filter sterilization, to an astonishing 1 in 1,000,000, via heating the sealed vial, it seems very promising for those who's mindset is to, for instance, refilter UGL gear before use.

Obviously, with that 1 in 1000 risk of an infected vial being based on production following USP standards, the risk is going to be far higher with all but the most exceptional homebrewers and UGLs. It's my layman's understanding that regardless of how "dirty" the process and ingredients, Terminal Sterilization will still render the same enormous risk reduction, making it even more valuable in the higher risk environment of UGLs.

Based on the subtext in some of the responses you've gotten, I think there's a risk of some here taking your results as the "proof" that concern about endotoxins is meaningless and projecting your results onto what they're making.

You have professional experience working in a lab. I'm sure those skills effortlessly extend to your homebrewing methods. There's little evidence many home brewers are as diligent. Autoclaving of equipment appears rare, especially when using pre-sterilized vials. Some shortcuts are far worse, like filling open top vials without a hood, or even reusing syringes for pinning and filter sterilization (after a "quick cleaning with alcohol").

Gram negative bacteria is common in households, especially in kitchens, where a lot of home brewing takes place. Storage of raws is haphazard, including in refrigerators where airborne gram negative bacteria is continuously circulated by the fans.

Air conditioning is a common source for airborne bacteria, which can easily settle on surfaces, including exposed, cooling brews drawing condensation.

In any case, clinical standards all refer to endotoxin minimization as "essential" and "vital" to avoid harming health, though the acute issues are relatively minor, and I'm more concerned with long term health impacts of cumulative exposure.

AAS users routinely test with higher CRP than non users, via an "unknown mechanism" theorized to be hormone related. Perhaps it's from exposure to endotoxin through gear, even at sub-acute levels. No other population injects as much volume of unregulated parenterals.

At the moment there's little that can be done about endotoxin anyway, other than striving for the most aseptic process possible, for those brewers who care.

Terminal Sterilization by contrast seems like low hanging fruit, easy and all upside if you want to ensure the safest gear reasonably achievable, once the details of the process are established.

 

[TirzSemaRet]

ive done 1:1 primo test all from QSC and it didn't do anything for my e2.

That sucks man. Sorry to hear ......

 

[dirthand]

Excellent details regarding the test. I've read that pharmaceuticals in lipid based carriers are difficult to test because of interference caused by oil coated endotoxins failing to react with LRW. Obviously your controls showed that wasn't an issue.

My primary interest has been in adapting the Terminal Sterilization process specified in a Test-Cyp formula for compounding pharmacies, for end users. Given its ability to reduce Sterility Assurance Level from the 1 in 1000 risk of pathogen infected gear using .22 filter sterilization, to an astonishing 1 in 1,000,000, via heating the sealed vial, it seems very promising for those who's mindset is to, for instance, refilter UGL gear before use.

Obviously, with that 1 in 1000 risk of an infected vial being based on production following USP standards, the risk is going to be far higher with all but the most exceptional homebrewers and UGLs. It's my layman's understanding that regardless of how "dirty" the process and ingredients, Terminal Sterilization will still render the same enormous risk reduction, making it even more valuable in the higher risk environment of UGLs.

Based on the subtext in some of the responses you've gotten, I think there's a risk of some here taking your results as the "proof" that concern about endotoxins is meaningless and projecting your results onto what they're making.

You have professional experience working in a lab. I'm sure those skills effortlessly extend to your homebrewing methods. There's little evidence many home brewers are as diligent. Autoclaving of equipment appears rare, especially when using pre-sterilized vials. Some shortcuts are far worse, like filling open top vials without a hood, or even reusing syringes for pinning and filter sterilization (after a "quick cleaning with alcohol").

Gram negative bacteria is common in households, especially in kitchens, where a lot of home brewing takes place. Storage of raws is haphazard, including in refrigerators where airborne gram negative bacteria is continuously circulated by the fans.

Air conditioning is a common source for airborne bacteria, which can easily settle on surfaces, including exposed, cooling brews drawing condensation.

In any case, clinical standards all refer to endotoxin minimization as "essential" and "vital" to avoid harming health, though the acute issues are relatively minor, and I'm more concerned with long term health impacts of cumulative exposure.

AAS users routinely test with higher CRP than non users, via an "unknown mechanism" theorized to be hormone related. Perhaps it's from exposure to endotoxin through gear, even at sub-acute levels. No other population injects as much volume of unregulated parenterals.

At the moment there's little that can be done about endotoxin anyway, other than striving for the most aseptic process possible, for those brewers who care.

Terminal Sterilization by contrast seems like low hanging fruit, easy and all upside if you want to ensure the safest gear reasonably achievable, once the details of the process are established.

Honestly it's seems like everytime someone post some evidence and facts about the subject all your are doing is coming back with is bias theoretical rambling with no actionable evidence or plan laid to adequately achieve and implement the processes you are so passionately pushing.. I am definantly not trying to be against you.. actually I am all for rhe process you are touting but I am asking that you drop the rambling theories and be a pioneer and help get tangible, actionable processes together based on facts and evidence. For example this is what I am in the process of doing. I sent 3 samples to get sterility tested.. same brew.
Sample 1 nonfiltered
Sample 2 bottle top .22 filteredinto media bottle then drawer up and filtered into a sealed vial filtered again using a .22 syringe filter (my process)
Sample 3 same as sample 2 but also Terminal Sterilization 160c at 120 minutes.
My sister is doing g the test so I will not have an official report but she us a micro biologists in a medical lab so I trust her process that she says involves sheep's blood??? Maybe with your great research ability you can find out the threshold at which some compounds will start to break down and degrade at what temperature.. Bring something viable to the table please..

I mean honestly you keep bashing "homebrewers " and how reckless and careless they are.. how do you know don't bash and judge a group of people that you do t even know..what a shitty thing to do.. imo

 

[DECLAN]

Honestly it's seems like everytime someone post some evidence and facts about the subject all your are doing is coming back with is bias theoretical rambling with no actionable evidence or plan laid to adequately achieve and implement the processes you are so passionately pushing.. I am definantly not trying to be against you.. actually I am all for rhe process you are touting but I am asking that you drop the rambling theories and be a pioneer and help get tangible, actionable processes together based on facts and evidence. For example this is what I am in the process of doing. I sent 3 samples to get sterility tested.. same brew.
Sample 1 nonfiltered
Sample 2 bottle top .22 filteredinto media bottle then drawer up and filtered into a sealed vial filtered again using a .22 syringe filter (my process)
Sample 3 same as sample 2 but also Terminal Sterilization 160c at 120 minutes.
My sister is doing g the test so I will not have an official report but she us a micro biologists in a medical lab so I trust her process that she says involves sheep's blood??? Maybe with your great research ability you can find out the threshold at which some compounds will start to break down and degrade at what temperature.. Bring something viable to the table please..

I mean honestly you keep bashing "homebrewers " and how reckless and careless they are.. how do you know don't bash and judge a group of people that you do t even know..what a shitty thing to do.. imo

The irony is he uses ugl from China, he places 100% trust on their products and haven’t done a single test of any product he bought from QSC. Ghoul is just a hater for guys who do the opposite of what he thinks constitute safety.

Believe me, you will have more health problems being obese and not getting in shape than any of these imaginary dangers you seem to think there is in home brewing gear.

 

[TestosTyrone]

The irony is he uses ugl from China, he places 100% trust on their products and haven’t done a single test of any product he bought from QSC. Ghoul is just a hater for guys who do the opposite of what he thinks constitute safety.

Believe me, you will have more health problems being obese and not getting in shape than any of these imaginary dangers you seem to think there is in home brewing gear.

I really want to see the scuba diving pictures with all the girls he said he rolls we with in Thailand. If I was living that lifestyle I'd be shitting on everyone posting my stacks of pharma grade gear with my Thai whores poolside as I watch the crypto market on a giant tv.
Shit that box of donuts he posted looked like he got it on sale at Kroger. Show me the scuba diving pictures Mr. Pokemon who can't be identified without a silph scope

 

[HB_22]

Didn’t he say he is using glp-1 drugs for 7 years straight or so? I mean that plus using ampethamines for a long time adds up to a certain picture of him.

 

[dirthand]

@Ghoul I just want to say that I had no intent in being negative tward nor to personally attack your character.. was just speaking our my rhougys.. carry on!

 

[Middus]

.

AAS users routinely test with higher CRP than non users, via an "unknown mechanism" theorized to be hormone related. Perhaps it's from exposure to endotoxin through gear, even at sub-acute levels. No other population injects as much volume of unregulated parenterals.

Common things occur commonly.. uncommon things uncommonly. Why assume that the endotoxins are coming from the gear, when a more common source of endotoxins is recombinant technology products.. e.g Hgh?