Qingdao Sigma Chemical Co., Ltd (International, US, EU, Canada and Australia domestic

[Ghoul]

Thanks for the answer.

I have just barely scrapped the whole subject and I am trying to "quantify" (if that is even possible) the probability of aggregates causing serious implications versus the standard medical guidelines, that we know, are somewhat driven by possible legal implications and/or are directed to the gen pop aka soccer moms.

One such example is the need of Testosterone Undecanoate (AVEED) for TRT to be administered strictly and only by trained medical personnel, due to it's minute, yet real possibility according to its medical insert, to cause pulmonary micro embolisms

View attachment 314307

We do know that our little sub culture has zero reported issues so far from Test U usage

I really encourage you to dive into this. Simply searching for "protein therapeutic aggregates" will bring up a wealth of information. If it's too hard to interpret the body of the study, start with the conclusion, usually written in plain English, then try rereading the rest of the study. You'd be amazed how quickly it starts to make sense.

I didn't mention the separate issue of particulates and the damage/risk they present. Filtering addresses them too of course. There's an interesting crossover with aggregates and immunogenicity. When you add particulate contamination to proteins, ie injecting shit like rubber stoppers particles or glass shards commonly found in UGL vials along with your peptide, it makes the immune response, and accompanying risk, much worse, Contamination has fairly recently been intentionally added to vaccines specifically to make this happen.


The key drivers of this concern over aggregates and immunogenicity were a handful of incidents I alluded to above. These aren't "lose an ass cheek" kind of things, but much more insidious problems that aren't noticed for a long time, and were avoidable (I'd say speculatively, by filtering out the aggregated).

Don't be lulled into thinking this is the product of "overlawyering" of pharma companies, The risks may be low IN CAREFULLY PRODUCED PHARMA DRUGS that go through a great deal of effort to make sure aggregation doesn't happen, but NOT UGL which simply replicate the peptides without any care regarding excipients to prevent aggregation, contaminants which go undetected even in Jano tests, and particles in the vials).


"Therapeutic Protein" = peptide drug

 

[beachathlete]

@Ghoul - apologies if you covered this a few pages back - this would seem to insinuate that TB500/BPC157 mixes aren't providing the intended effect or are there potential exceptions?

 

[Middus]

No absolutely do not mix peptides in the same container, syringe or otherwise.

All you are doing is is creating more points for peptides to adhere to each other, forming unique aggregates, effectively creating millions of random new drug molecules, which, at the least will inactivate a certain amount of the peptides and trigger more of an immune reponse.

The FDA has warned about this reckless practice with unknown consequences. There are no pharma drugs that include multiple peptides. The few that have considered combining two, none of which are approved, used polymers to ensure they couldn't stick to each other.

People need to get over the notion that if they inject something and they don't feel anything bad happen within a day it must be fine.

What about compounders selling BPC mixes?

 

[IronJohnDoe]

Hey is Tracy single?

If by Tracy you mean the Korean actress that he uses as an avatar then yes she should be single.
If by Tracy you mean the China man behind QSC I have no frigging idea.

 

[Ghoul]

@Ghoul - apologies if you covered this a few pages back - this would seem to insinuate that TB500/BPC157 mixes aren't providing the intended effect or are there potential exceptions?

There are no exceptions without a full study of the aggregation resulting from the interaction two peptides in a single container. Only experiments in preventing problems haven been done so far, "Coating" peptides in a kind of polymer that dissolves in the body has shown promise in preventing these molecules from sticking together.

FDA started expressing concern over BPC in 2023.

Then in October the FDA declined to remove BPC the "high risk" list of bulk drugs used by compounding pharmacies specifically because nothing whatsoever has been done by the manufacturers, petitioning the FDA for approval, to measure or control aggregation and immunogenicity risk, explicitly mentioning how they found it to often be carelessly combined with other substances, which increases risk exponentially vs being used as a single compound.

It's safer to keep them separate. Not necessarily "safe" (or dangerous), but definitely a lesser risk than mixing them for no reason than mere convenience. Even if someone insists on a single injection. at least storing them in separate vials will help:

 

[sinistral]

What causes aggregation?

Dozens of factors. From PH, concentration of the peptide, the interface between the protein and other surfaces (including air), physical shock, heat, contamination and the nature of the peptide itself, Some are naturally prone to forming aggregates, others not so much.

Am I correct to say from this that aggregates can form both before and after reconstitution?

 

[Astartes]

Update: Interestingly, all orders I placed (4) between Dec15th and Dec 31st have now been received. Even those that did not come with a tracking code prior to sudden exit.

As previously stated QSC was an international seller. I am highly skeptical that they shut down due to US law enforcement or burned shipping lanes.

(Which they may have had due to recent seizures, or it could have …. more likely… occurred as a result of a full pressure campaign in general by customs and DEA)

Too much of a network to simply close all operations. No, this is a sudden and quick departure that coincided with CNY but was unrelated to it.

My gut, and this is simply my own thought process is that this is more likely pressure on Chinese Pharma to close gaps in grey market consumption to prevent sanctions, tariffs, or consequences to their white market.

Some of that pressure may have resulted from the new administration in US, but I am betting this is as much internally driven as externally driven.

For whatever reason, QSCs primary suppliers for Raws were burned first and they thought they count continue operating on peptides… then it was a quick exit.

Personally, I hope Tracy got out.

However, don’t think he pulled an exit scam, I think his ops got netted and we are unlikely to get the actual story due to CN being opaque.

To what degree they were compromised or operating with or without party authority, will most likely remain unknown.

(As always… I will batch test to determine quality, but expect it will likely come up positive)

 

[Middus]

I really encourage you to dive into this. Simply searching for "protein therapeutic aggregates" will bring up a wealth of information. If it's too hard to interpret the body of the study, start with the conclusion, usually written in plain English, then try rereading the rest of the study. You'd be amazed how quickly it starts to make sense.

I didn't mention the separate issue of particulates and the damage/risk they present. Filtering addresses them too of course. There's an interesting crossover with aggregates and immunogenicity. When you add particulate contamination to proteins, ie injecting shit like rubber stoppers particles or glass shards commonly found in UGL vials along with your peptide, it makes the immune response, and accompanying risk, much worse, Contamination has fairly recently been intentionally added to vaccines specifically to make this happen.


The key drivers of this concern over aggregates and immunogenicity were a handful of incidents I alluded to above. These aren't "lose an ass cheek" kind of things, but much more insidious problems that aren't noticed for a long time, and were avoidable (I'd say speculatively, by filtering out the aggregated).

Don't be lulled into thinking this is the product of "overlawyering" of pharma companies, The risks may be low IN CAREFULLY PRODUCED PHARMA DRUGS that go through a great deal of effort to make sure aggregation doesn't happen, but NOT UGL which simply replicate the peptides without any care regarding excipients to prevent aggregation, contaminants which go undetected even in Jano tests, and particles in the vials).


"Therapeutic Protein" = peptide drug

View attachment 314311

Therapeutic Proteins DOES NOT ALWAYS EQUAL Peptides.
Some protein therapies are actually immune modulating antibodies. Their job is to be immunogenic, Sometimes to a devastating effect.
EPO too for example, it's not just a simple hormone (they're never simple though) like HGH. Epo is a cytokine. Cytokines by their very nature affect the immune system.

But yes, aggregates are an issue.

 

[Ghoul]

Am I correct to say from this that aggregates can form both before and after reconstitution?

Correct. Though once lyophilized there's no more aggregation until reconstitution. The nature of Jano testing means "related" aggregates like growth hormone dimer are identified, but others are just unspecified "impurities". Also, since reconstituted peptides are filtered prior to analysis, larger aggregates won't be detected at all. They can be through Size Exclusion Chromatography, which he offers. But in my opinion, it wouldn't make much of a difference, since they can form long after reconstitution, and filtering gets rid of both aggregates from manufacturing and "grown" later anyway.

So for the end user the results just reveal the quality of the product, but changes nothing in regards to filtering.

This is an eye opener on the topic from the POV of protein drug developer consultant giving a presentation at a pharma school.

https://www.pharmacy.umaryland.edu/media/SOP/wwwpharmacyumarylandedu/centers/cersievents/aggregation/vessely-presentation-notes.pdf

Protein based drugs are still a relatively recent technology, and every week there's another advance made in detecting aggregates, tweaking manufacturing to prevent them, packaging companies are formulating new types of glass and plastics to prevent them from happening, and of course the basic research of quantifying their risk goes on.

But what everyone involved in producing and regulating protein drugs seems to intuitively understand, what motivates all this effort and billions in expense to get a handle on this, is that eventually, there's going to be another catastrophic event, and unlike the relatively few it devastated in the past, it could be millions the next time.

 

[Swolemates365]

It’s good to see everyone getting packs still. Just need Tracy to re ship these seized now! We know your lurking Tracy!!

 

[Garganzola]

Plot twist Tracy was Luigi

 

[TurboJet]

Well 300 more pages till we hit 4k!

 

[alphastrength50]

Anyone get us packs when ordered the week of 1/5 to 1/8 before the pause? Not sure why us would have issues post CNY.

 

[Garganzola]

Anyone get us packs when ordered the week of 1/5 to 1/8 before the pause? Not sure why us would have issues post CNY.

i think one guy did, i am still waiting for my order that was shipped on 1st of January.

 

[mok4315]

Anyone get us packs when ordered the week of 1/5 to 1/8 before the pause? Not sure why us would have issues post CNY.

I imagine the US “warehouses” were shipping out product until shortly after they too lost comms with QSC. Maybe they figured that if they weren’t getting paid, might as well keep the drugs. Or maybe they’re just laying low until QSC comes back online. I recall one or two guys getting their packs.

 

[Astartes]

It’s good to see everyone getting packs still. Just need Tracy to re ship these seized now! We know your lurking Tracy!!

Yah. That is the pits. Hate it for those caught up in that.

 

[Trailmixed]

No absolutely do not mix peptides in the same container, syringe or otherwise.

All you are doing is is creating more points for peptides to adhere to each other, forming unique aggregates, effectively creating millions of random new drug molecules, which, at the least will inactivate a certain amount of the peptides and trigger more of an immune reponse.

The FDA has warned about this reckless practice with unknown consequences. There are no pharma drugs that include multiple peptides. The few that have considered combining two, none of which are approved, used polymers to ensure they couldn't stick to each other.

People need to get over the notion that if they inject something and they don't feel anything bad happen within a day it must be fine.

Damn man, all these people on the “GLOW” protocol (GHK-Cu/BPC/TB-500) without knowing anything about aggregate formation. I guess no surprise with the lack of knowledge on the subject.

 

[Trailmixed]

Got my CN tracking number on 12/30, have checked daily since then on LZ and USPS, and still nothing on it. Trying to deny the fact that I’m fucked lol

 

[mok4315]

Damn man, all these people on the “GLOW” protocol (GHK-Cu/BPC/TB-500) without knowing anything about aggregate formation. I guess no surprise with the lack of knowledge on the subject.

That’s what they get for trusting a mentally unstable narcissist. I truly hope SRY is no longer using her as a US warehouse.

 

[Ghoul]

Damn man, all these people on the “GLOW” protocol (GHK-Cu/BPC/TB-500) without knowing anything about aggregate formation. I guess no surprise with the lack of knowledge on the subject.

The rule is that biologics, which includes proteins, should never be mixed together in the same syringe. AAS are small molecule drugs and aren't nearly as likely to be incompatible,

The next time you have a few immunizations due, ask the nurse to draw them all into one syringe so you only have to endure a single injection and see what she says.