MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
You seem to be answering a question that nobody asked…
Thanks for the @ mention so I can double-check ya' if needed (as in this case)! So, I posted this:
The Myth of Testosterone Suspension (aqueous; or in oil [TNE], testosterone base) & Uncontrollable Estrogenicity (Increased E2) [Author: Type-IIx]
The matter of testosterone base (as aqueous, water-based; or in oil vehicle, as Testosterone No Ester [TNE]) and changes to estradiol (E2) is one of much confusion. In fact, before the availability of AI & SERM drugs, besides compound selection strategies aimed at moderate testosterone dosing &...thinksteroids.com
Test, mg/mg, whether with or without esterification, forms E2 as a function of aromatase pharmacodynamics. After a single 200 mg testosterone enanthate i.m. injection E2 peaks 1 day/24 h later and stays elevated for a few days (5 or 6?).
The same is basically true for 200 mg testosterone base (aqueous ["suspension"] or oil vehicle [TNE]).
In the real world, while injecting on a regular administration schedule, the differences between base hormone (e.g., TNE, suspension) vs. esterified prodrug (e.g., enanthate, cypionate) basically disappear, and with respect to E2, become virtually indistinguishable. This is so because :
I. Testosterone pharmacokinetics don't differ that much between the two, and
II. Aromatase:
(a) is a metabolic step that is rate-limiting meaning that the aromatase reactions are the "choke point" for E2 levels in men
(b) is saturable, meaning that above an asymptote, further increases in Test dose don't significantly increase E2.
The quasi-article above was intended simply to show that the two are virtually indistinguishable (TNE/suspension) is not any more estrogen-spiking than testosterone esterified.
Indeed, the base is preferable closer to a show, if not because of reduced "bloat" then because it could be removed rapidly and the aromatic potency would basically crater to nil after a couple days cessation, unlike prodrug preparations, esterified.
Yes, they are the same thing.
TNE generally refers to testosterone base in oil vehicle.
Testosterone suspension generally refers to testosterone base in water vehicle.
Administering TNE orally would be terribly wasteful because it's not bioavailable. Even with the long-acting undecanoate ester, one would have to ingest ~ 40 mg every 1 - 3 h to satisfactorily replace endogenous T (true TRT).
Well, I can tell you that I was grateful for his response. I also appreciate your opposing views too. This issue - bioavailability of testosterone - is actually an extremely complex matter. My situation shows this pretty well, I think: I have been taking Test E for a few years and using Mast E or Primo E (or both) as an AI and just recently I wanted to see what taking Sustenon on top of my usual stack “felt like”. The 48 hour spike in serum test (most of us I presume have seen the graph) looked pretty interesting and plenty of folks rave about it.
What the fuck are you even talking about in this paragraph?
from one shot of sustanon 2 days prior?
bloodwork. not guessing based off of symptoms.
its all in your head
we literally have decades of bloodwork for exactly this.
terrible idea
all functionally identical when applied with proper injection frequency
then what was the point of this post and what relevance did it have to my post which you quoted.
dermals are objectively worse by every conceivable metric than injectables, other than the lack of an injection.
hey @BigTomJ - are you dieting? you remind me of my missus when she is on her rags - your grouchy responses tell me that you are someone with a hormonal imbalance, rather than a paragon of wisdom (this is how I think you see yourself). Or are you just generally a d*ckhead? I hope it is just the hormones and not you as a person.
you compared 250mg of sustanon, which fastest esters are 30mg of prop and 60mg of tpp to superdrol.
that is how it felt for me mate - I am being honest. I hope you arent referring to me as someone who thinks they are especially smart, certainly on the subject matter of this important forum. I know very little and hope I am not giving off a different perception. I am thoroughly enjoying the process of learning here, let me tell you
Tom took the time to respond and quote multiple things you said, hes not wrong on any of it and you took offense, he couldve just called you a moron and left it at that.
you type all this out and try to sound extra smart about everything yet you dont even bother to look up what esters are in sus, you probably read some B.S somewhere about sus and cherrypicked 1 or 2 anecdotes from gym bros on a forum 7 years ago and are now basing all your feelings off of a vibe you got from a comment on reddit or somtehing
I'm sorry answering your dumb questions hurt your widdle feewings.
well I clearly need to be more careful with my words - I will take that on board. Cheers. I found Tom’s response to be unnecessarily blunt/harsh - more of an effort to make the point “I am awesome - I know a lot about gear” than a genuine attempt to be helpful.
Thanks mate - I appreciate you being humble and recognising poor form - we are all here to learn and grow and being an emotional wreck is a part of life. Sending you positive energy and strength - especially for your next leg day (most especially those “calves”)
I appreciate that man.
