Question about Test No Ester and Test Base

[WeaponPharma]

i wanted to know if "test no ester" is the same as "test base"? I have raw test base and I am hoping it is the same thing as TNE - it makes sense to me that it is, but I want to be sure. Secondly, does anyone here administer TNE orally? Sorry if these are stupid newbie questions - I swear I have looked for an answer without successs

 

[Type-IIx]

The same compound, but due to one being a solution and the other a suspension, you can't really say they are the same "product" as absorption profiles display notable variances ...

You seem to be answering a question that nobody asked…

 

[Type-IIx]

Thank you for correcting me. It had been quite a while since reading it. Bookmarked now.

Very welcome bro!

 

[Goingstronger]

Apologies dude. You said “blasting TNE…” so I took that to mean injecting. Not trying to sh!t all over your transdermal application routine at all. I’m rather intrigued by it actually.

Check my threads, lots of advice available.


@BigTomJ
@iris

 

[Goingstronger]

You seem to be answering a question that nobody asked…

He was quite relevantly pointing out that TNE and Test suspension behave differently, who cares if it was prompted ?

He wouldn't be the first one to say something nobody asked for, would he ?

@ChestRockwell
@mands

Have my back in case he answers !!!!!!!

 

[Jin23]

i wanted to know if "test no ester" is the same as "test base"? I have raw test base and I am hoping it is the same thing as TNE - it makes sense to me that it is, but I want to be sure. Secondly, does anyone here administer TNE orally? Sorry if these are stupid newbie questions - I swear I have looked for an answer without successs

TNE and test base are not the same thing. They are made from the same base constituent compound (testosterone free of any ester modifications) but as the resulting pharmacokinetics of the end product behave somewhat differently, due to, as mentioned above, one being a solution and the other a suspension, a summation of them "being the same", would be a wrong statement; ie. the compound from which they are made is the same but the end product are two different compounds.

You seem to be answering a question that nobody asked…

Moody huh

 

[Goingstronger]

TNE and test base are not the same thing. They are made from the same base constituent compound (testosterone free of any ester modifications) but as the resulting pharmacokinetics of the end product behave somewhat differently, due to, as mentioned above, one being a solution and the other a suspension, a summation of them "being the same", would be a wrong statement; ie. the compound from which they are made is the same but the end product are two different compounds.

Finally someone who can express his ideas clearly !

Moody huh

Yeah I don't know about this guy he keeps making sentences with big words but I doubt he is as relevant as @ChestRockwell was.

 

[Jin23]

TNE and test base are not the same thing. They are made from the same base constituent compound (testosterone free of any ester modifications) but as the resulting pharmacokinetics of the end product behave somewhat differently, due to, as mentioned above, one being a solution and the other a suspension, a summation of them "being the same", would be a wrong statement; ie. the compound from which they are made is the same but the end product are two different compounds.

*Oil vs water (regardless of it being a solution or a suspension) also effects absorption. Forgot to mention that.

Yeah I don't know about this guy he keeps making sentences with big words but I doubt he is as relevant as @ChestRockwell was.

Appreciate you pointing out ChestRockwell. I looked him up briefly and he sounded clear and concise, without notable ego issues.

 

[WeaponPharma]

This is such a generous response - thanks so much for sharing it. Here in Australia, when a person spends a large portion of their life acting selflessly in a noble or charitable way, sometimes - in exceptional cases - they can receive a special honour which derives from our colonial heritage: a designation on the “King’s Birthday Honours List”. It is a big deal here and recipients even receive Post Nominal letters which they can proudly use forever after, when writing their names.

Maybe there will come a day when “The Internet” recognises a few select folks who go above and beyond. If they do, it will be you getting my vote @Type-IIx and not just because you freely give important advice. You also remain patient and gracious when certain clowns around here try to score a point. Thank you again, sincerely, I’ll be trying to pay it forward

Thanks for the @ mention so I can double-check ya' if needed (as in this case)! So, I posted this:

The Myth of Testosterone Suspension (aqueous; or in oil [TNE], testosterone base) & Uncontrollable Estrogenicity (Increased E2) [Author: Type-IIx]

The matter of testosterone base (as aqueous, water-based; or in oil vehicle, as Testosterone No Ester [TNE]) and changes to estradiol (E2) is one of much confusion. In fact, before the availability of AI & SERM drugs, besides compound selection strategies aimed at moderate testosterone dosing &...

thinksteroids.com

Test, mg/mg, whether with or without esterification, forms E2 as a function of aromatase pharmacodynamics. After a single 200 mg testosterone enanthate i.m. injection E2 peaks 1 day/24 h later and stays elevated for a few days (5 or 6?).

The same is basically true for 200 mg testosterone base (aqueous ["suspension"] or oil vehicle [TNE]).

In the real world, while injecting on a regular administration schedule, the differences between base hormone (e.g., TNE, suspension) vs. esterified prodrug (e.g., enanthate, cypionate) basically disappear, and with respect to E2, become virtually indistinguishable. This is so because :

I. Testosterone pharmacokinetics don't differ that much between the two, and

II. Aromatase:

(a) is a metabolic step that is rate-limiting meaning that the aromatase reactions are the "choke point" for E2 levels in men

(b) is saturable, meaning that above an asymptote, further increases in Test dose don't significantly increase E2.

The quasi-article above was intended simply to show that the two are virtually indistinguishable (TNE/suspension) is not any more estrogen-spiking than testosterone esterified.

Indeed, the base is preferable closer to a show, if not because of reduced "bloat" then because it could be removed rapidly and the aromatic potency would basically crater to nil after a couple days cessation, unlike prodrug preparations, esterified.

Yes, they are the same thing.

TNE generally refers to testosterone base in oil vehicle.

Testosterone suspension generally refers to testosterone base in water vehicle.

Administering TNE orally would be terribly wasteful because it's not bioavailable. Even with the long-acting undecanoate ester, one would have to ingest ~ 40 mg every 1 - 3 h to satisfactorily replace endogenous T (true TRT).

 

[WeaponPharma]

debatable


if by "massive" you mean used by comparably nobody? sure i guess.


not more stable than injection, and lets just ignore the smeared mess, skin irritation, slow absorption rate, and transmission risk.


jesus christ are you fucking cringe.
I wish you werent so awkward bud

Well, I can tell you that I was grateful for his response. I also appreciate your opposing views too. This issue - bioavailability of testosterone - is actually an extremely complex matter. My situation shows this pretty well, I think: I have been taking Test E for a few years and using Mast E or Primo E (or both) as an AI and just recently I wanted to see what taking Sustenon on top of my usual stack “felt like”. The 48 hour spike in serum test (most of us I presume have seen the graph) looked pretty interesting and plenty of folks rave about it.

Well fuck me it was glorious. It reminded me of Superdrol - my tenacity/strength in the gym - and my wife thinks I produced more ball sauce than at any other point in our lives together.

Unfortunately I now have insanely itchy pecs which I will address with some aromasin shortly.

My point though is this: different esters/forms and (in my experience at least) dramatically different outcomes from the same base compound. Perhaps this would all be explicable by looking at my total test vs free test on a chart in each instance: test base under the tongue vs test e vs test e + sust - I don’t know enough to say one way or another. But I do think I will be having a crack at transdermal test one day

 

[BigTomJ]

Well, I can tell you that I was grateful for his response. I also appreciate your opposing views too. This issue - bioavailability of testosterone - is actually an extremely complex matter. My situation shows this pretty well, I think: I have been taking Test E for a few years and using Mast E or Primo E (or both) as an AI and just recently I wanted to see what taking Sustenon on top of my usual stack “felt like”. The 48 hour spike in serum test (most of us I presume have seen the graph) looked pretty interesting and plenty of folks rave about it.

What the fuck are you even talking about in this paragraph?

Well fuck me it was glorious. It reminded me of Superdrol - my tenacity/strength in the gym - and my wife thinks I produced more ball sauce than at any other point in our lives together.

from one shot of sustanon 2 days prior?
no.

Unfortunately I now have insanely itchy pecs which I will address with some aromasin shortly.

bloodwork. not guessing based off of symptoms.

My point though is this: different esters/forms and (in my experience at least) dramatically different outcomes from the same base compound.

its all in your head

Perhaps this would all be explicable by looking at my total test vs free test on a chart in each instance:

we literally have decades of bloodwork for exactly this.

test base under the tongue

terrible idea

test e vs test e + sust

all functionally identical when applied with proper injection frequency

- I don’t know enough to say one way or another.

then what was the point of this post and what relevance did it have to my post which you quoted.

But I do think I will be having a crack at transdermal test one day

dermals are objectively worse by every conceivable metric than injectables, other than the lack of an injection.

 

[WeaponPharma]

What the fuck are you even talking about in this paragraph?


from one shot of sustanon 2 days prior?
no.


bloodwork. not guessing based off of symptoms.


its all in your head


we literally have decades of bloodwork for exactly this.


terrible idea


all functionally identical when applied with proper injection frequency


then what was the point of this post and what relevance did it have to my post which you quoted.


dermals are objectively worse by every conceivable metric than injectables, other than the lack of an injection.

hey @BigTomJ - are you dieting? you remind me of my missus when she is on her rags - your grouchy responses tell me that you are someone with a hormonal imbalance, rather than a paragon of wisdom (this is how I think you see yourself). Or are you just generally a d*ckhead? I hope it is just the hormones and not you as a person.

so, in my post above I was talking about how I introduced sustenon which as you know contains different testosterone esters. I am not sure which one is which, but different bloodwork examples show that serum testosterone goes up quickly post injection - within like 48/72 hours. Since my test is already elevated, I think it is quite possible that the large spike from the sustenon delivered me a big boost in the gym session I described. You say "no", like you are the beginning and end of the conversation. Not helpful, but ok.

Separately, the bioavailability of testosterone, based on the form of the testosterone and the means by which it is delivered - is complicated. Perhaps you are downplaying the complexity because you are trying to project the idea that to you, someone who (in your own mind) is a genius on these matters, it is simplistic, but I am sure there are other readers who are relatively new in their AAS journey like me. This whole forum is about learning and helping others - take a chill pill mate and maybe have an ice cream or something so you dont seem so rude

 

[Liter O' Test]

hey @BigTomJ - are you dieting? you remind me of my missus when she is on her rags - your grouchy responses tell me that you are someone with a hormonal imbalance, rather than a paragon of wisdom (this is how I think you see yourself). Or are you just generally a d*ckhead? I hope it is just the hormones and not you as a person.

so, in my post above I was talking about how I introduced sustenon which as you know contains different testosterone esters. I am not sure which one is which, but different bloodwork examples show that serum testosterone goes up quickly post injection - within like 48/72 hours. Since my test is already elevated, I think it is quite possible that the large spike from the sustenon delivered me a big boost in the gym session I described. You say "no", like you are the beginning and end of the conversation. Not helpful, but ok.

Separately, the bioavailability of testosterone, based on the form of the testosterone and the means by which it is delivered - is complicated. Perhaps you are downplaying the complexity because you are trying to project the idea that to you, someone who (in your own mind) is a genius on these matters, it is simplistic, but I am sure there are other readers who are relatively new in their AAS journey like me. This whole forum is about learning and helping others - take a chill pill mate and maybe have an ice cream or something so you dont seem so rude

you compared 250mg of sustanon, which fastest esters are 30mg of prop and 60mg of tpp to superdrol.

ill give you the benefit of the doubt that your estrogen was crashed and the addition of sustanon relieved your symptoms and youre now flooded with dopamine.

youll never be as smart as you think you are, no matter how much you read or how many podcasts you listen to

 

[lukiss96]

Sounds like nothing more than a dopamine rush. I get this when I suddenly increase my Testosterone dosage dramatically. Too bad it doesn't last that long until body adjusts to it and you begin to feel normal again.

 

[WeaponPharma]

you compared 250mg of sustanon, which fastest esters are 30mg of prop and 60mg of tpp to superdrol.

ill give you the benefit of the doubt that your estrogen was crashed and the addition of sustanon relieved your symptoms and youre now flooded with dopamine.

youll never be as smart as you think you are, no matter how much you read or how many podcasts you listen to

that is how it felt for me mate - I am being honest. I hope you arent referring to me as someone who thinks they are especially smart, certainly on the subject matter of this important forum. I know very little and hope I am not giving off a different perception. I am thoroughly enjoying the process of learning here, let me tell you