Questions for my CLEN/T3/YOHIMBINE (ketotifen) cycle

[matz]

Hi guys !
Here are my personal informations:

Second cycle (2weeks clen only ended 2 days ago).
80 kilos (177 pounds)
11%bf
1,81 centimeter (6ft)
Trained for 3 years
23 years old
Train pretty much everyday (i can't have a rest day without a cardio or abs seance i know its bad)
From what i heard , a diet on clen should be low fat/moderate carbs/high protein which looks like : 2100 cals : 50g fat, 160g carbs, 250g proteins.

Here is the different products i am going to use during this cycle .

Liquid clen 30mL 200mcg/ml
Liquid T3 30mL 150mcg/ml
Liquid Keto 30mL 1mg/mL
Primaforce Yohimbine HCI 2.5mg/caps

complement used : Taurine, ZMA, BCAA/Gluta/Creatin/whey, multi vitamins (opti-men).

First of all let me explain you where i am right now , i started my cycle clen only 2weeks ago to see how i react to it , on the first day i made the mistakes of using a big syringe which was the only one i had so i messed up the dosage ( probably took 60-75 mcg straight ) and i threw up the whole night and had stomach ache, after this lesson i did not took it and waited 2 days later to have a smaller syringe in hand to dose it properly , so i went gradually from 20mcg to 160mcg at the end of the second week , the sides effects i got was some cramps (only 1 big cramp in 2 weeks), hand shaking but really tolerable even at 160mcg ( feels like i got used to it really quickly because the sides did not really change through the whole cycle i was thinking about going even higher but 160 was the safe limit from what i read )

As the novice that i am , i have listened to people saying that we can run an ECA stack during the weeks off clen . I been taking it for 2 days now (3x 25mg E/200mg C/81mg A), i did not feel anything but tired so i deducted that my receptors were downregulate from the clen .

Now that i know how i react to clen, i wanted to add some t3 and yohimbine (i never tried both). so i planned to try the yohimbine alone for a few days while throwing some benadryl at night to upregulate my receptor at the same time. (If benadryl actually work because reviews are confusing) Btw i am using KETOTIFEN because i already used clen for 2 weeks recently and my receptors seems to go down pretty fast (and the efficiently of benadryl is unsure), i know we usually use ketotifen for a longer cycle but i don't see anything wrong with doing that to make sure the receptors are fine.

If i get a good reaction on the yohimbine , my cycle would looks like this .

day 1 : Clen 100mcg+ T3 25mcg+ yohimbine 5mg +2mg KETO before bed
day 2 : Clen 100mcg+ T3 25mcg+ yohimbine 5mg +2mg KETO before bed
day 3 : Clen 100mcg+ T3 25mcg+ yohimbine 5mg +2mg KETO before bed
Day 4 : Clen 100mcg+ T3 50mcg+ yohimbine 5mg +2mg KETO before bed
Day 5 : Clen 100mcg+ T3 50mcg+ yohimbine 5mg +2mg KETO before bed
Day 6 : Clen 100mcg+ T3 50mcg+ yohimbine 5mg +2mg KETO before bed
Day 7 : Clen 100mcg+ T3 75mcg+ yohimbine 5mg +2mg KETO before bed
Day 8 : Clen 120mcg+ T3 75mcg+ yohimbine 5mg +2mg KETO before bed
Day 9 : Clen 120mcg+ T3 75mcg+ yohimbine 5mg +2mg KETO before bed
Day 10 : Clen 120mcg+ T3 75mcg+ yohimbine 5mg +2mg KETO before bed
Day 11 : Clen 140mcg+ T3 75mcg+ yohimbine 5mg +2mg KETO before bed
Day 12 : Clen 140mcg+ T3 75mcg+ yohimbine 5mg +2mg KETO before bed
Day 13 : Clen 140mcg+ T3 75mcg+ yohimbine 5mg +2mg KETO before bed
Day 14 : Clen 160mcg+ T3 75mcg+ yohimbine 5mg +2mg KETO before bed
Day 15 : T3 50mcg+ yohimbine 5mg
Day 16 : T3 50mcg+ yohimbine 5mg
Day 17 : T3 50mcg+ yohimbine 5mg
Day 18 : T3 50mcg+ yohimbine 5mg
Day 19 : T3 25mcg+ yohimbine 5mg
Day 20 : T3 25mcg+ yohimbine 5mg
Day 21 : T3 25mcg+ yohimbine 5mg
Day 22 : T3 25mcg+ yohimbine 5mg

Any advices on my cycle are welcome !

Here is the questions i would like to have the answer to before starting my cycle .

I would like to know first if adding yohimbine to a clen/t3 cycle which is already pretty heavy is a good idea and if anyone else tried it to give me reviews on it ?
(i dont feel like im really reactif to any stimulants , i didnt feel my heart beating too fast on 160mcg clen and i did not really sweat more than usually)

If yes i would like to know more about the timing for taking yohimbine and T3 , i have been reading the article that Thor made about t3 and clen but i wonder if it would works the same with yohimbine, since yohimbine timing need to be away from insulin production to be efficient, it make the whole cycle kinda complicated . So when would it be the best time to take yohimbine ?

And also i have seen all kind of article about the yohimbine dose (0.2/kg), should i take this dose on my few days of yohimbine only to give it a try ? should i up the dosage everyday like i did on clen ? should i lower it when i add the clen/T3 ? Or keeping it to 5mg would be effective ?

I know the cycle is pretty short but it would not be a problem to make it longer if you guys think it would be better .

Thank you so much for your help guys ! First time i post a cycle let me know if i forgot anything .

 

[matz]

Yohimbine is a creeper. Especially the standardized Yohimbine depending if it's 2% or more. Depending on the quality of the manufacturer and the consistency of the potency will depend how you will react. It is one of those things that the average Joe should opt out of because it affects you in more ways then one. As TEK said, anxiety, jitteriness, feelin hot, and even mild trip with Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas is all possible. But the one thing if you can handle it and it becomes a part of your arsenal once you surpass the initiation phase and the body accepts it, it mainly helped out with the vasodilation and stamina. But then again I stayed on it for years on end. No bullshit. Whether it was Primaforce 2.5 mg 2 doses at every meal, to bumping it up with Twinlab Fuel 8mg, 2 pills every 4 hours 3x a day. That with the combination of caffeine, adrenaline and hate never had any problems. But it is one of those things either your body will accept it or you will suffer sides like a mofo. For the general concessions of the public their are milder things to take, or jump towards the Eca stack, or things that will help out with the beta-2 receptors. Yohimbine has been talked since 1997 Bill Phillips days and more people found out the hard way that especially if you don't have a healthy lifestyle and good roadways or the blood to pump, this herb will go in, and start pumping blood whether you want it or not. Start low, taper up, but in this new day and age of performance enhancing substances stick with things that work, cause Yohimbine is the Boogeyman in a lot of circles if you don't know how to use it. Like I said I stay on it all year round, but then again my body built the tolerance for it and it never used it for bb'ding purposes. Just as a general stack. Moral of this rant is, start low taper up, but their are more beneficial things if your looking to target specific receptors to burn fat...

Thank you for all those details i appreciate it ! Just one thing , 2caps everymeal? Why since yohimbine is supposed to be inneficient with food? (I mean any insulin production)

 

[matz]

I like to alternate the Clen and ECA every 2 weeks and use Keto for the receptors for the entire 4 weeks. This works extremely well for me. Then you are not worrying about fresh receptors and can put in the Y after the 4 weeks and then repeat as needed. But check the BP...

I don't like eca that much , i dont know if its because i tried it while my receptor were probably down from clen but i did not feel anything , not even apetite suppression . I might retry it later while bulking as a pre workout.

 

[matz]

Clen and Ephedrine both work on the Beta receptors and by switching from one to the other you are keeping the Beta Receptors down regulated. Yohimbine HCL works on the Alpha receptors and can be alternated with Clen to keep receptors fresh. In general I like to do two weeks on Clen and then two weeks on Yohimbine HCL.

I also like to start Clen at the lowest level possible. I actually start at 10mcg and can feel it and don't increase until I start to not feel its side effects. It never made sense to me to see how much your body can handle and just max out from there.

I'm just telling you what I do. I'm not telling you what you should do.

Exact , so why dont you run clen and yohimbine at the same time since it works on different receptor?

 

[CeymoreButtz]

I don't like eca that much , i dont know if its because i tried it while my receptor were probably down from clen but i did not feel anything , not even apetite suppression . I might retry it later while bulking as a pre workout.

Most people make the mistake of not using the keto, so they don't get much from the ECA if doing it right after Clen. Alot of people us it as a pwo. I would advise you to run Y first by itself and taper up and then see how you react to it. Then see if you can do both, most people can't the 2 together...

 

[Gunrunner]

Exact , so why dont you run clen and yohimbine at the same time since it works on different receptor?

You could run Yohi continuously and cycle the clen on/off every two weeks without down regulating the receptors, but I don't like the massive stimulating effect of both at the same time. Your probably gonna throw some pre-workout in there also and I think it could lead to CNS overload, sleep problems, possible mental issues and adrenal fatigue. So I stick two on clen and then two on Yohi.

 

[SpartacusOmega]

Thank you for all those details i appreciate it ! Just one thing , 2caps everymeal? Why since yohimbine is supposed to be inneficient with food? (I mean any insulin production)

Once again, I'm not a Bodybuilder and I don't use it for fat burning purposes. It helps out with the Vasodilation if you incorporate it right into your stack. It helps me out more then Arginine, AAKG, histidine, citruline, norvaline, or whatever new products they are trying to say that helps out with the blood flow. As mentioned it acts on the Alpha receptors, so utilize caution. Depends what you use it for. Cause you and me are on different freqs, and the things that work for me could be detrimental to your regiment.

 

[Gunrunner]

Once again, I'm not a Bodybuilder and I don't use it for fat burning purposes. It helps out with the Vasodilation if you incorporate it right into your stack. It helps me out more then Arginine, AAKG, histidine, citruline, norvaline, or whatever new products they are trying to say that helps out with the blood flow. As mentioned it acts on the Alpha and Beta receptors, so utilize caution. Depends what you use it for. Cause you and me are on different freqs, and the things that work for me could be detrimental to your regiment.

You are 100% correct in that if effect everyone differently. I use like 1-2) 2.5mg Yohi tabs 2-3 times a day. And that is pushing it for me as it makes me feeling extremely weird.

Just for clarification:
Yohimbine acts on the Alpha receptors.
Clen and Ephedrine act on the Beta receptors.

 

[SpartacusOmega]

You are 100% correct in that if effect everyone differently. I use like 1-2) 2.5mg Yohi tabs 2-3 times a day. And that is pushing it for me as it makes me feeling extremely weird.

Just for clarification:
Yohimbine acts on the Alpha receptors.
Clen and Ephedrine act on the Beta receptors.

Correct it acts on the whole Alpha receptor family, and on the D2 and D3 receptors.
Somewhere down the line when the pre synaptic a2 receptors facilitate the release of a couple neurotransmitters mainly around the corpus cavernosum thus the nitric oxide and norepinephrine.
Albuterol also hits the Beta receptors, being a B2 Agonist

 

[matz]

You could run Yohi continuously and cycle the clen on/off every two weeks without down regulating the receptors, but I don't like the massive stimulating effect of both at the same time. Your probably gonna throw some pre-workout in there also and I think it could lead to CNS overload, sleep problems, possible mental issues and adrenal fatigue. So I stick two on clen and then two on Yohi.

Make sense

 

[matz]

Most people make the mistake of not using the keto, so they don't get much from the ECA if doing it right after Clen. Alot of people us it as a pwo. I would advise you to run Y first by itself and taper up and then see how you react to it. Then see if you can do both, most people can't the 2 together...

Yes that is exactly what i am planning to do with the yohimbine, but let see if i can handle the "3" because i am going to use also t3 remember ?
Btw i wanted to ask you guys one last questions , i have been reading all kind of thing about the diet on t3 since without any AAS behind, it might eat some muscles tissues , some people say to almost eat twice the normal protein intake because of the changement of the protein absorbtion that t3 affect , but since my calories are pretty low already what about the fat intake and carbs ? I was planing to stay on a "clen diet" (2100 cals =250g prot 160g carbs 50g fat) but since i am not really familiar with t3 i don't know if i need way more protein than on clen or if this diet would be fine, i don't really want to rely on the "anti catabolism" effect of clen which is really unsure.

 

[CeymoreButtz]

Yes that is exactly what i am planning to do with the yohimbine, but let see if i can handle the "3" because i am going to use also t3 remember ?
Btw i wanted to ask you guys one last questions , i have been reading all kind of thing about the diet on t3 since without any AAS behind, it might eat some muscles tissues , some people say to almost eat twice the normal protein intake because of the changement of the protein absorbtion that t3 affect , but since my calories are pretty low already what about the fat intake and carbs ? I was planing to stay on a "clen diet" (2100 cals =250g prot 160g carbs 50g fat) but since i am not really familiar with t3 i don't know if i need way more protein than on clen or if this diet would be fine, i don't really want to rely on the "anti catabolism" effect of clen which is really unsure.

Yes, That is a good point, we haven't discussed any aas use. T3 and Clen will definitely eat into the muscle if you aren't on aas. I would up the total cals and add protein (300), and lower the carbs(125) and increase the fat(75) and see how that works for you. Fat is not the enemy, its the carbs.. It is difficult to reduce carbs if you aren't accustomed to it, so I would start there.
On a side note, have you ever carb cycled to get sub 10%? I used to do it with excellent results and honestly only started using compounds to lose fat when I got older and lazier. The diet is really where its at... If you can stick to it.. I had a post in B79 and JBs old log somewhere that details my carb cycling regimen..

 

[matz]

Yes, That is a good point, we haven't discussed any aas use. T3 and Clen will definitely eat into the muscle if you aren't on aas. I would up the total cals and add protein (300), and lower the carbs(125) and increase the fat(75) and see how that works for you. Fat is not the enemy, its the carbs.. It is difficult to reduce carbs if you aren't accustomed to it, so I would start there.
On a side note, have you ever carb cycled to get sub 10%? I used to do it with excellent results and honestly only started using compounds to lose fat when I got older and lazier. The diet is really where its at... If you can stick to it.. I had a post in B79 and JBs old log somewhere that details my carb cycling regimen..

Alright , i agree carbs is the enemy i usually never lower my fat intake less than 1g/kg but i saw thoses articles saying that it should be lowered on clen i did not really understood why but anyway , i never tried carbs cycling but i've been thinking about trying it but on a clean bulk purpose . Do you have a link to your carb cycling regimen ? i would like to take a look at it

 

[CeymoreButtz]

Alright , i agree carbs is the enemy i usually never lower my fat intake less than 1g/kg but i saw thoses articles saying that it should be lowered on clen i did not really understood why but anyway , i never tried carbs cycling but i've been thinking about trying it but on a clean bulk purpose . Do you have a link to your carb cycling regimen ? i would like to take a look at it

Here you go, I posted this for Brutus and JB last year, not sure if they did it.. But it works, I have done it for contest prep with more success than any compound I ever used. It is an abbreviated version and easy read..

Carbohydrate Cycling- This term is often used throughout our community and generally refers to alternating from a low/no carb day (0g-50g) to a high carb day (250g-400g) or some variation of this.. However, it does become much more complicated than this. I am going to keep this simple and easy to follow. Once you are in a rhythm your note taking on what you are eating will not be as necessary, but starting off, it will be.

Basic Carb Cycle Introduction

1. Calculate your TDEE. This helps us figure your necessary caloric intake to meet your goal weight. TDEE is how many calories your body needs to function at your current activity rate to maintain current weight (or for our purposes, desired weight). The TDEE calculation is meant to determine how many calories your body burns in 24hours, according to the stats provided in the calculation. In the past, I have adjusted my TDEE to reflect my goal weight, not current weight. This is beneficial when “on” and you are aiming for a specific weight. You are eating and dieting to achieve that goal weight. This particluar TDEE calculator below will help you determine what your number should be and has a 20% surplus option for those muscle building adjustments.

TDEE Calculator: Learn Your Total Daily Energy Expenditure


2. Now Calculate how many grams of carbs you currently take in on a daily basis. This is a necessary calculation, because we are going to immediately slash them in half for 14 days. If your carb average intake was 500g daily. You are going to go to 250g max daily. Then when calculating your TDEE macro breakdown, replace 40% of these carb calories with Protein and 10% with fat. (Don’t forget fats give us 9 calories per gram instead of 4.)

Try to avoid as many simple sugars as possible, but Brutus loves his apples, so those are good, just stay under the daily limit. Remember this plan is for someone who hasn’t carb cycled before or is coming in from a long hiatus. This is not show prep.. You may look ready for a show when we are done, but our goals here are 8 pack (panty dropper mode) and maximum muscle gain possible from calories introduced.


3. The goal after 14 days at 50% carb reduction, you should feel leaner but should not feel flat or depleted. Some more experienced dieters will go right into Ketosis these first 14 days. This means they would reduce their carbohydrate intake to 0g-50g day and after 7-10 days they could check their urine for ketones. At this point they are in Ketoacidosis, similar to what an uncontrolled Diabetic is in because they are urinating out all of their Sugars.. This Ketotic state is very beneficial because the body is using fat as its main energy source and burning fat stores. But I wouldn’t recommend that to start out, it is really easy to fall off the wagon if you were on a heavy carb diet prior. So for our purposes, this 2 week period will be your adjustment phase.


4. Now to the “Carb Cycling” we hear so much about. There are many variations of the number of days of low to high and when to adjust them. There are 2 main things we have to consider here. One is Consistency. For this to be effective, we have to be consistent. Dramatic results require consistency. Two, listen to your body. If you are feeling depleted and have been on a three day low carb stretch further down the road, it is time for a high carb day.

Also, some dieters using Carb cycling will take 20% off of their TDEE and shoot for caloric reduction while Carb Cycling. We do not do this when we are “on” cycle. These extra calories will be burned up and we need them. We set a goal weight/caloric goal and then adjust how/when our carbohydrates enter our bodies.This changes off cycle.


5. The Actual Carb Cycle--

I have tried this many different ways, but to start out I like the 2-1-2-1 method. This means you start with 2 straight low carb days and then one high carb day, then 2 more low, then end with one high.

Example for a 49 yr old 265lb 6’1’’ person looking to build muscle (20% surplus) I would need approximately 4,400 calories a day. Here is how I would breakdown my intake:

Day One: 50g Carb (200 calories)/600g Protein (2400 calories)/Fats 200g (1800 calories)

Day Two: 50g Carb

Day Three: 300g Carb (1200 calories)/600g Protein(2400 calories)/ Fats 85g (765 calories)

Day Four: 50g Carb

Day Five: 50g Carb

Day Six: 300g Carb

Then repeat rotation from the beginning

As I mentioned before, there are many variations of this. I have seen diets where no carb days are incorporated into this such as a no carb, then low carb, then high carb schedule. I have also seen others put their fats much higher, however when you are on cycle, this is not recommended. The reason being the protein grams will have to be lowered to fit into your caloric goal. As you get further into this, you will know what you respond to and what you don’t. Also if you are feeling good going 2 straight low carb days, you can try three in a row down the line and switch up to 3-1-3-1.The results will be shocking when you have it right.


6. In order to figure your high Carb day #s, I like to go a little higher than you were during the 14 day carb reduction. Carbs are necessary for muscle growth, so we have to take this into consideration. Also back to listening to your body. For Example, If you feel flat/weak on 300g high days, go to 400g. Just be careful on the simple sugars. But start on the 300g level and adjust if necessary.


7. Brutus and the 5 Donut days—Yes.. no shit this can happen, but I don’t recommend it for those without some level of willpower. After 4 rotations of the 2-1-2-1 schedule, a very high carb day is in order. We need to refill the glycogen in our muscles. Therefore 1000g day can take the place of the last (1) in the 4th rotation. I don’t recommend lowering protein to fit in the calories, I always lower the fat on this day and tend to blow out my TDEE.


8. Last, to eat 6-8 meals or not?? I don’t really see a point to this argument. I don’t think eating more often speeds up your metabolism. However, your body can only process a certain amount of protein at a time, and you can only eat so much at a time without puking. So it only makes sense to split the times into more frequent meals.. When Carb cycling I have found eating more frequently helps stabilize my blood sugar as well. Is there a metabolic advantage, I’m thinking not, but for me it’s a convenience. To each his own.

 

[matz]

Here you go, I posted this for Brutus and JB last year, not sure if they did it.. But it works, I have done it for contest prep with more success than any compound I ever used. It is an abbreviated version and easy read..

Carbohydrate Cycling- This term is often used throughout our community and generally refers to alternating from a low/no carb day (0g-50g) to a high carb day (250g-400g) or some variation of this.. However, it does become much more complicated than this. I am going to keep this simple and easy to follow. Once you are in a rhythm your note taking on what you are eating will not be as necessary, but starting off, it will be.

Basic Carb Cycle Introduction

1. Calculate your TDEE. This helps us figure your necessary caloric intake to meet your goal weight. TDEE is how many calories your body needs to function at your current activity rate to maintain current weight (or for our purposes, desired weight). The TDEE calculation is meant to determine how many calories your body burns in 24hours, according to the stats provided in the calculation. In the past, I have adjusted my TDEE to reflect my goal weight, not current weight. This is beneficial when “on” and you are aiming for a specific weight. You are eating and dieting to achieve that goal weight. This particluar TDEE calculator below will help you determine what your number should be and has a 20% surplus option for those muscle building adjustments.

TDEE Calculator: Learn Your Total Daily Energy Expenditure


2. Now Calculate how many grams of carbs you currently take in on a daily basis. This is a necessary calculation, because we are going to immediately slash them in half for 14 days. If your carb average intake was 500g daily. You are going to go to 250g max daily. Then when calculating your TDEE macro breakdown, replace 40% of these carb calories with Protein and 10% with fat. (Don’t forget fats give us 9 calories per gram instead of 4.)

Try to avoid as many simple sugars as possible, but Brutus loves his apples, so those are good, just stay under the daily limit. Remember this plan is for someone who hasn’t carb cycled before or is coming in from a long hiatus. This is not show prep.. You may look ready for a show when we are done, but our goals here are 8 pack (panty dropper mode) and maximum muscle gain possible from calories introduced.


3. The goal after 14 days at 50% carb reduction, you should feel leaner but should not feel flat or depleted. Some more experienced dieters will go right into Ketosis these first 14 days. This means they would reduce their carbohydrate intake to 0g-50g day and after 7-10 days they could check their urine for ketones. At this point they are in Ketoacidosis, similar to what an uncontrolled Diabetic is in because they are urinating out all of their Sugars.. This Ketotic state is very beneficial because the body is using fat as its main energy source and burning fat stores. But I wouldn’t recommend that to start out, it is really easy to fall off the wagon if you were on a heavy carb diet prior. So for our purposes, this 2 week period will be your adjustment phase.


4. Now to the “Carb Cycling” we hear so much about. There are many variations of the number of days of low to high and when to adjust them. There are 2 main things we have to consider here. One is Consistency. For this to be effective, we have to be consistent. Dramatic results require consistency. Two, listen to your body. If you are feeling depleted and have been on a three day low carb stretch further down the road, it is time for a high carb day.

Also, some dieters using Carb cycling will take 20% off of their TDEE and shoot for caloric reduction while Carb Cycling. We do not do this when we are “on” cycle. These extra calories will be burned up and we need them. We set a goal weight/caloric goal and then adjust how/when our carbohydrates enter our bodies.This changes off cycle.


5. The Actual Carb Cycle--

I have tried this many different ways, but to start out I like the 2-1-2-1 method. This means you start with 2 straight low carb days and then one high carb day, then 2 more low, then end with one high.

Example for a 49 yr old 265lb 6’1’’ person looking to build muscle (20% surplus) I would need approximately 4,400 calories a day. Here is how I would breakdown my intake:

Day One: 50g Carb (200 calories)/600g Protein (2400 calories)/Fats 200g (1800 calories)

Day Two: 50g Carb

Day Three: 300g Carb (1200 calories)/600g Protein(2400 calories)/ Fats 85g (765 calories)

Day Four: 50g Carb

Day Five: 50g Carb

Day Six: 300g Carb

Then repeat rotation from the beginning

As I mentioned before, there are many variations of this. I have seen diets where no carb days are incorporated into this such as a no carb, then low carb, then high carb schedule. I have also seen others put their fats much higher, however when you are on cycle, this is not recommended. The reason being the protein grams will have to be lowered to fit into your caloric goal. As you get further into this, you will know what you respond to and what you don’t. Also if you are feeling good going 2 straight low carb days, you can try three in a row down the line and switch up to 3-1-3-1.The results will be shocking when you have it right.


6. In order to figure your high Carb day #s, I like to go a little higher than you were during the 14 day carb reduction. Carbs are necessary for muscle growth, so we have to take this into consideration. Also back to listening to your body. For Example, If you feel flat/weak on 300g high days, go to 400g. Just be careful on the simple sugars. But start on the 300g level and adjust if necessary.


7. Brutus and the 5 Donut days—Yes.. no shit this can happen, but I don’t recommend it for those without some level of willpower. After 4 rotations of the 2-1-2-1 schedule, a very high carb day is in order. We need to refill the glycogen in our muscles. Therefore 1000g day can take the place of the last (1) in the 4th rotation. I don’t recommend lowering protein to fit in the calories, I always lower the fat on this day and tend to blow out my TDEE.


8. Last, to eat 6-8 meals or not?? I don’t really see a point to this argument. I don’t think eating more often speeds up your metabolism. However, your body can only process a certain amount of protein at a time, and you can only eat so much at a time without puking. So it only makes sense to split the times into more frequent meals.. When Carb cycling I have found eating more frequently helps stabilize my blood sugar as well. Is there a metabolic advantage, I’m thinking not, but for me it’s a convenience. To each his own.

interesting, Seems fun to try i let you know how it goes whenever i try it thank you for sharing .

 

[CeymoreButtz]

interesting, Seems fun to try i let you know how it goes whenever i try it thank you for sharing .

Yes, keep us posted and Good Luck!

 

[ergomaniac]

Yes Ephedrine will downregulate the beta-2s and I think even more so than Clen... I always used the keto when using either one. What is your goal BF%

not so, and there are a couple of articles right here that say otherwise. including this one. thinksteroids.com/steroid-profiles/ephedrine "when reasonably dosed as described above, there are little or no issues with receptor downregulation and ephedrine need not be cycled for that reason."
it may even work better with extended use. I linked up a good article from here for another thread but cant find it at the moment.

fat loss with ephedrine isn't very dramatic. now if I use it, its for "energy" and or appetite suppression.

 

[CeymoreButtz]

not so, and there are a couple of articles right here that say otherwise. including this one. thinksteroids.com/steroid-profiles/ephedrine "when reasonably dosed as described above, there are little or no issues with receptor downregulation and ephedrine need not be cycled for that reason."
it may even work better with extended use. I linked up a good article from here for another thread but cant find it at the moment.

fat loss with ephedrine isn't very dramatic. now if I use it, its for "energy" and or appetite suppression.

Hmmm interesting? Everything I have experienced since first using ECA while competing in the early 90s points to Ephedrine hitting those Beta receptors and contradicts this. And if I had time I would have to dive into this deeper... Are you saying the ECA should be 100% effective coming off a Clen run? I have never had this experience, and most people report getting little results from the ECA when coming off Clen.

I also disagree that fat loss with ephedrine is not dramatic. I competed for years (prior to using GH) and it was one of the most effective things for me. Now yes everyone reacts differently, but the fat loss is the only reason I would use it. And as time went on, I would have to use more to achieve the desired effect, hence cycling it...

 

[ergomaniac]

Hmmm interesting? Everything I have experienced since first using ECA while competing in the early 90s points to Ephedrine hitting those Beta receptors and contradicts this. And if I had time I would have to dive into this deeper... Are you saying the ECA should be 100% effective coming off a Clen run? I have never had this experience, and most people report getting little results from the ECA when coming off Clen.

I also disagree that fat loss with ephedrine is not dramatic. I competed for years (prior to using GH) and it was one of the most effective things for me. Now yes everyone reacts differently, but the fat loss is the only reason I would use it. And as time went on, I would have to use more to achieve the desired effect, hence cycling it...

im only saying what I said, which was a direct response to your post which I quoted. ephedrine doesn't down regulate beta adrenergic receptors more so then clen and should be of little concern. its also an indirect agonist and less potent.

just thinking here, if ephedrine has little effect of beta receptors, maybe run it before clen. but if your running ketotifen with both, it might not really matter.

effective drugs don't always give dramatic results. so while theyre effective you still have to put in the work. I know you know that. and I wouldnt keep bumping up the dose on ephedrine, clen, or most drugs for that matter. and in this case you might not have to. ill see if I can find that post or another.