Recovering from propecia and gyno with SERMS. Need help.

[brazilianguy]

Basically I took propecia and crashed, I tried thousand of things to recover and nothing gave me results besides tribulus, clomid and tamoxifen.

My recent levels without doing serms and tribulus was

T: 280
E2: 36
Lh: 2
Fsh: 1.8
TSH: 2.0
Prolactin: 4

I was doing well until I started gym and eating a lot of oats (my cholesterol dropped a lot) I felt a mini crash But I already recover to where j was before the cholesterol drop (eating a lot of eggs and bacon). One thing I noticed, as soon as I started doing gym, my supplements/herbs stopped working and I didn't improve anymore, then I tested stopping gym for 15 days and take them again (clomid 25mg) everything worked again, now I started gym again and they are no longer working, it's like taking a pill that doesn't do anything. My diet is fine, I'm not drinking even a drop of alcohol for a long time. Do you think I should stop doing gym to let my body recover? I was doing really intense training and getting good results, but supplements stopped working and no improvements in libido or in pfs in general,as soon as I stopped they worked again (sorry to sound repetitive but do you guys think it's cortisol related?)

Basically I want to make serms work again, do you guys suggest to stop doing gym? Is it a cortisol problem that makes Hpta stop working from the stimulation that we get from serms?

Last question: Is there anything I can do to stimulate even more the leydig cells, like make them work better with clomid.

Btw: My dosage was 12.5mg-25mg clomid. Or 5-10mg of tamoxifen (never taken together because it's too strong for me and I feel some low e sides even joint pain) also I don't mix serms to AIs because it kills my E and I get panick attack. I was taking once a week and getting incredible results.

Ps: I read many recoveries from post finasteride syndrome and all of them said the recovery comes with ups and downs giving a better baseline, and that's exactly what I felt on tribulus, clomid or tamoxifen. Is there any way to avoid the estrogen increase from serms (because I think the rebound get me worse, but with a better baseline comparing to before taking it) I can't take any AI even very low dosage once every 14 days, like less than 0.25mg of Arimidex cause me panick attack and gyno feel painful.

I forgot to say that I'm also suffering from gyno, I have very puffy nipples with a lump behind them, but they are not big, I would say they are the size of a bean. Would taking tamoxifen instead of clomid be a better idea to recover (libido, energy and also gyno at the same time) instead of clomid?

Thank you so much guys. I'm so relieved that I discovered the cure. I was suffering pfs for 5y + but I just need to adjust a little things, I hope you guys can help me.

 

[Dr JIM]

Self treatment involving complex medical complaints like yours , just don't MIX and the "outcome" is often much worse as a result, IME!

To that end, one can only hope you have pursued and obtained a formal medical evaluation.

 

[John Bahlmer]

Self treatment involving complex medical complaints like yours , just don't MIX and the "outcome" is often much worse as a result, IME!

To that end, one can only hope you have pursued and obtained a formal medical evaluation.

Dr. Jim, whats your take on post-finestride syndrome?

Do you think its real, mass hysteria, or something in between?

 

[Dr JIM]

Dr. Jim, whats your take on post-finestride syndrome?

Do you think its real, mass hysteria, or something in between?

See my posts on Doc Scally's PFS thread, those toward the end in particular, as my experience (especially with respect to causation) in patients with PFS, correlated with the literature quite nicely.

Suffice it to say, there's a significant psychogenic component with respect to the onset, development and/or progression of PFS IME.

 

[Dr JIM]

Want an example read the comments and BETWEEN the lines in this thread, as the complaints are non-system based, exhibit an individualistic and therefore unpredictable response to varied forms of "recovery therapy", disjointed to the extant alternative diagnoses are being entertained ('cortisol") before an initial primary diagnosis was ruled out, much of what is believed to be causation related are not substantiated or refuted in the literature (E-2 rebound"), etc, ext etc.

And when its' all said and done, the OP fails to mention a formal medical evaluation was even conducted. The reasons in most instances, "doctors either tells me I'm fine or the cause is in my head" !

 

[brazilianguy]

Hi Dr. First I would like to thank you for posting. But I need to disagree. Pfs is a real condition and terrible, eye floaters, tinnitus, pelvic pain, watery sperm, penile shrinkage, gynecomastia are not symptoms that are in our heads.

You're right, many sufferers won't ask for doctors help because they will say, it's all in your head, go to a psychiatrist, just imagine if the professional you put your life on his hands say something like this without really knowing how you feel, you have nothing less to do besides trying to fix it on your own. In fact, all the members from solvepfs and propeciahelp that are cured, they cured themselves without going to a doctor, they did the same I'm doing now, asking for help and hoping to be listened.

Estrogen rebound is not something I'm saying with no scientific background. It's simple, if a person take serms they will get some E rebound when stop, I know that you know that, maybe I didn't write well in the beginning.

Basically I just want serms to work again, I don't know what happened that now I take them and I feel absolutely nothing, the only thing different from the time it was working and now is that before I was taking vitamins and minerals, now I'm not.

 

[Dr JIM]

Dr. Jim, whats your take on post-finestride syndrome?

Do you think its real, mass hysteria, or something in between?

Hi Dr. First I would like to thank you for posting. But I need to disagree. Pfs is a real condition and terrible, eye floaters, tinnitus, pelvic pain, watery sperm, penile shrinkage, gynecomastia are not symptoms that are in our heads.

You're right, many sufferers won't ask for doctors help because they will say, it's all in your head, go to a psychiatrist, just imagine if the professional you put your life on his hands say something like this without really knowing how you feel, you have nothing less to do besides trying to fix it on your own. In fact, all the members from solvepfs and propeciahelp that are cured, they cured themselves without going to a doctor, they did the same I'm doing now, asking for help and hoping to be listened.

Estrogen rebound is not something I'm saying with no scientific background. It's simple, if a person take serms they will get some E rebound when stop, I know that you know that, maybe I didn't write well in the beginning.

Basically I just want serms to work again, I don't know what happened that now I take them and I feel absolutely nothing, the only thing different from the time it was working and now is that before I was taking vitamins and minerals, now I'm not.

I REST MY CASE!

 

[John Bahlmer]

Lol. @dr.jim

Also, OP, I've been looking into dht alot lately.

Unless finestride has some effects independent of 5alphareductase, most side effects would be caused by the significant reduction of androgenic activity in the tissues that have alot of the enzyme 5-ar.

I say significant because these tissues have an extremely high concentration of dht compared to other tissues (like fat, muscle, etc.).

I wouldn't look up permenant effects of finestride, these user accounts will probably be opinionated and wi only fuel your concerns. Personally, I would look up "permenantly effects of androgen deprivation after puberty" or something along those lines.

It's possible that there are some permenant or semi-permenant tissue specific effects, but, at the same time, as long as your pituitary and testes remain functional, which is kind of easy to figure out even if you don't have a doctor, I don't know how all of these different issues can be caused by stopping finestride.

It's possible, but idk.

Regardless, best of luck, and don't stress yourself out too much.

 

[Dr JIM]

Lol. @dr.jim

I don't know how all of these different issues can be caused by stopping finestride.

.

And that's THE problem I mean PFS has been pinned as the "cause" of any number of complaints ranging from ED, CA, to baldness and even plane accidents, SERIOUSLY !