ROAST ME! First Cycle Results w/ Pics (Test E, Primo E, Trest/MENT A, MK677)

[cinder]

Had 4 years training and dieting experience before doing my first cycle.
Started this gaining journey for mental health, starting at a weight of 125lbs at 5'11 (6ft now, lifting made me stand taller).


NUTRITION:
When I first started training I was really afraid of wasting my time at the gym since I was probably not eating enough (I always felt like I ate enough, but obviously I didn't), so I designed this daily diet where I would eat the same thing every day with rare iterations. A daily diet where every macro and micro nutrient was accounted for in an effort to craft the perfect daily diet, meaning every minute in the gym had it's perfectly optimized equivalent in the kitchen to the calorie.
Anyway that was fucking unrealistic, nonsensical and exhausting. But what it did do was give me a good grasp on nutrition.
For the cycle I didn't track anything, I've had practice eyeing macros so I trusted my gut.
Tried to aim for 1g-1.5g of protein per lb of bodyweight.

TRAINING:
Didn't track strength progress, always lifted to failure (4-6 sets 6-12 reps).

Day 1: Legs
-Squats
-Hamstring curls
-Leg extensions
-Adductor machine
-Calf raises

Day 2: Chest/Back
-Bench press
-Fly machine
-Incline press
-Lat pulldowns

Day 3: Arms
Triceps
-Standing cable
-Lying barbell
-Overhead dumbbell
Biceps
-Standing hammer
-Incline dumbbell
-Standing barbell

Day 4: Rest

Repeat

SAUCE LOG:
ED pins with 29g 1ml insulin syringe

2021-09-15 Started MK677 15mg/d
*6.5 months later
Basically natty pics

2022-03-29 First pin Test E 250/w (14iu)
*2 weeks later
2022-04-13 Increased Test E 300/w (17iu)
*1 month later
2022-05-11 Increased Test E 400/w (23iu)
2022-05-20 Itchy nips, took 12.5 Aromasin
*Going from 300 to 400 was too big of a leap, got minor gyno
2022-05-21 Reduced Test E 350/w (20iu)
2022-05-24 Itchy nips
2022-05-27 minor itchy nips
2022-05-28 Took 6.25 Aromasin, reduced Test E 320/w (18iu)
2022-06-03 minor itchy nips, took 6.25 Aromasin
2022-06-04 Reduced Test E 300/w (17iu)
2022-06-06 Itchy nips, took 6.25 Aromasin
2022-06-07 Reduced Test E 280/w (16iu)
2022-06-13 Minor itchy nips, took 6.25 Aromasin
*Test E 280/w well tolerated, no AI required
Sports TRT pics

2022-06-21 First pin Primo E 300/w (44iu)
2022-07-03 Low E2 symptoms (lethargy, insomnia, achy joints. Might be in my head.)
2022-07-04 Increased Test E 320/w (18iu)
2022-07-13 First pin HCG 125/d (5iu)
2022-07-23 Increased Primo E 400/w (57iu)
2022-07-31 First pin Trest A 5/d (10iu)
2022-08-01 Starting 12.5 Aromasin EOD
2022-08-02 Reduced Test E 230/w (13iu)
2022-08-05 Increased Trest A 10/d (20iu)
2022-08-10 Reduced Test E 140/w (8iu), Increased Trest A 15/d (30iu)
*Slin pin maxed out
2022-08-12 Increased 12.5 Aromasin to ED
*Sacrificing Primo to keep pinning at only once a day
2022-08-13 Reduced Primo E 330/w (47iu), Increased Trest A 20/d (40iu)
2022-08-16 Reduced Primo E 260/w (37iu), Increased Trest A 25/d (50iu)
2022-08-17 Alternating 12.5 and 25 Aromasin ED
2022-08-19 Reduced Primo E 190/w (27iu), Increased Trest A 30/d (60iu)
2022-08-20 Reduced Primo E 155/w (22iu), Increased HCG 250/d (10iu)
*Started pinning twice a day to finish HCG
2022-08-21 Increased Primo E 225/w (32iu), Increased HCG 1000/d (40iu), Increased Aromasin 25 ED
2022-08-24 Increased Trest A 35/d (70iu)
Peak pics

2022-08-25 Stopped Test E, Primo E, Trest A, HCG, Aromasin
*Waiting 4 half-lives of enanthate (18 days)
2022-09-01 Stopped training (for 11 months)
2022-09-06 Itchy nips, why? Took 12.5 aromasin, stopped MK677
2022-09-12 Started Raloxifene 60mg/d, Nolvadex 10mg/d
2022-09-22 Reduced Raloxifene 30mg/d
*Had moderate acne on chest, shoulders and back through-out all of September, October
*2 months later
2022-11-07 Stopped Nolvadex
Post-PCT pics

*3 months later
2023-02-27 Stopped Raloxifene
*5.5 months later
2023-08-14 Started training again

For my first cycle I set myself the objective of finding the max test dose I could handle before aromatization became an issue.
After 3 months of tweaking, that dose ended up being 280mg/w of test E.
I tried to take a reactionary approach to AI, but as you saw it costed me minor gyno (I'm thankful that it's small enough where it's not visible, about pea-sized).
After this I decided to step on the pedal and added primo and trest/MENT.
I picked trest cause I wanted to recover easily, but that basically meant I needed to eventually take a bunch of aromasin.
Recovery was easy, although I found the raloxifene underwhelming.
This was the longest training break I ever took (11 months) and after starting again I can definitely say that muscle memory is real.
I'm currently 29 6ft 212lbs 18%bf. Not looking to lose fat I kinda like it.

I can't get the next cycle off of my mind; I feel like I've committed so much to learning about this topic that it would be a waste not to practice it.

Second cycle that I'm thinking about (in chronological order):
14 WEEKS
300mg test C /w
300mg primo E /w
200mg NPP /w
500iu HCG /w
2iu HGH with first meal /d
2iu HGH before bed /d
10iu Lantus /d

8 WEEKS
200mg test C /w
500iu HCG /w

4 WEEKS
Nothing

8 WEEKS
Nolvadex 10mg /d

My only request is to plz only roast things that are within my control :')
But really I'm looking for constructive criticism, I want to learn.
Ok bye

 

[RiceNKimchi]

Cool. First cycle lots of compounds and no idea how to dial in estrogen but you add in a 19nor, might have been the reason for your ichy nips but nice to add to confusion. No bloods which is also cool to understand nothing going on. All in all cool.

If you're happy I'm happy for you

 

[BigTomJ]

You are an absolute fool.

Just threw in the kitchen sink without knowing the first thing.
Not to mention you started with a natty nonlifters physique, and ended with a fat natty physique.


Hopefully you learned something at least.

 

[GMC]

Firstly, I ain’t no expert…but for what it’s worth -

I don’t know is you accidentally missed some bits out of your training routine, or not…but only doing lat pulldown on your back day doesn’t constitute a proper back workout!! Get some compound moves in there - nice heavy rows and pull up’s at the very least.
Personally, I can’t train chest & back together properly, it’s either one or the other - have a go doing them on separate days. (Basic example: chest/shoulder/tri - back/bi - legs)
You clearly did some shoulder work, but also didn’t mention it in your routine breakdown.
It’s pretty easy researching a suitable training split, concentrate on sorting that out before losing too much sleep over your next cycle.

Keep at it lad, you’ll get there…good luck!

One more pointer, hit your stride with the lifting before wasting time on the gear.
If your training isn’t right, it won’t matter what gear you take - you’re going to be disappointed.
Chemicals only help, but YOU’VE got to do the work, otherwise it’s just a waste.
All your ‘gains’ thus far could have easily been made natty.

Quads coming on well though for sure!!

 

[cinder]

Cool. First cycle lots of compounds and no idea how to dial in estrogen but you add in a 19nor, might have been the reason for your ichy nips but nice to add to confusion. No bloods which is also cool to understand nothing going on. All in all cool.

If you're happy I'm happy for you

Not exactly how it went down but you're right that I should've done bloodwork. Will have this in line for next time

 

[cinder]

You are an absolute fool.

Just threw in the kitchen sink without knowing the first thing.
Not to mention you started with a natty nonlifters physique, and ended with a fat natty physique.


Hopefully you learned something at least.

I still managed to gain 60lbs of lean muscle natty, might look like dyel physique to you but not everyone starts in the same place.
Also I do like the high bodyfat, I could've stayed lean but I'm not into that look, different goals.
I did learn a lot, and I know that I could've made much more progress natty. Ultimately all AAS use is foolish (unless it's TRT or something).

 

[BigTomJ]

I still managed to gain 60lbs of lean muscle nasty, might look like dyel physique to you but not everyone starts in the same place.
Also I do like the high bodyfat, I could've stayed lean but I'm not into that look, different goals.
I did learn a lot, and I know that I could've made much more progress natty. Ultimately all AAS use is foolish (unless it's try or something).

No, not all use is foolish.
You're use was foolish

 

[cinder]

Firstly, I ain’t no expert…but for what it’s worth -

I don’t know is you accidentally missed some bits out of your training routine, or not…but only doing lat pulldown on your back day doesn’t constitute a proper back workout!! Get some compound moves in there - nice heavy rows and pull up’s at the very least.
Personally, I can’t train chest & back together properly, it’s either one or the other - have a go doing them on separate days. (Basic example: chest/shoulder/tri - back/bi - legs)
You clearly did some shoulder work, but also didn’t mention it in your routine breakdown.
It’s pretty easy researching a suitable training split, concentrate on sorting that out before losing too much sleep over your next cycle.

Keep at it lad, you’ll get there…good luck!

One more pointer, hit your stride with the lifting before wasting time on the gear.
If your training isn’t right, it won’t matter what gear you take - you’re going to be disappointed.
Chemicals only help, but YOU’VE got to do the work, otherwise it’s just a waste.
All your ‘gains’ thus far could have easily been made natty.

Quads coming on well though for sure!!

Great reply!
I only do lats on chest day cause when I do chest I feel my upper back working hard (might be cause of my form idk) and lat pulldowns are there to balance. Pull-ups sound interesting but isn't it just basically the same as lat pulldowns?
I've never trained shoulders, they've always been wide and I don't wanna look like a billboard.
I agree the progress could've been done natty, I guess my question is can't you make that point indefinitely? At what point does it become a "valid" option to go on cycle realistically?
Thanks for the quad compliment and good post

 

[cinder]

No, not all use is foolish.
You're use was foolish

Thanks for your reply,
isn't the fact that abusing PEDs is detrimental to your health foolish by default? (Unless it's therapeutic like I mentioned)
I know I'm uneducated hence the point of this post; an attempt to receive feedback from this impressive community and end up less foolish (but never not foolish).

 

[BigTomJ]

Thanks for your reply,
isn't the fact that abusing PEDs is detrimental to your health foolish by default? (Unless it's therapeutic like I mentioned)
I know I'm uneducated hence the point of this post; an attempt to receive feedback from this impressive community and end up less foolish (but never not foolish).

Yes, to a degree. But there's a right way to go about things, and then there was your way.

You broke nearly every best safe practice rule for a first cycle.

What's done is done, I'm not here to bully you, but it's important that I frame this in proper context and reference so that some other teenage retard doesn't stumble across your dumpster fire cycle and think it's fine to do.

 

[cinder]

Yes, to a degree. But there's a right way to go about things, and then there was your way.

You broke nearly every best safe practice rule for a first cycle.

What's done is done, I'm not here to bully you, but it's important that I frame this in proper context and reference so that some other teenage retard doesn't stumble across your dumpster fire cycle and think it's fine to do.

Mind sharing these best practice rules for a first cycle?
Let's save the teenagers

 

[SkankHunt]

I’m sorry man but I’m siding with @BigTomJ here. Your log is all over the place.
-2nd cycle and already using insulin?
-your increasing and decreasing dosages every other day
-Zero bloodwork done. You went from having low e2 symptoms to having gyno?
-You just took 11 months off from training and you want to immediately hop back on a cycle?

Stick with the basics and get a good training program in before hopping back on the sauce. There’s no need for those crazy dosages with your training and physique (no disrespect)

Get back in the gym, establish a good lifting routine for months before starting another cycle. Keep it simple like 400mg of test a week. Before anything get bloodwork done pre, mid and post cycle.

 

[cinder]

I’m sorry man but I’m siding with @BigTomJ here. Your log is all over the place.
-2nd cycle and already using insulin?
-your increasing and decreasing dosages every other day
-Zero bloodwork done. You went from having low e2 symptoms to having gyno?
-You just took 11 months off from training and you want to immediately hop back on a cycle?

Stick with the basics and get a good training program in before hopping back on the sauce. There’s no need for those crazy dosages with your training and physique (no disrespect)

Get back in the gym, establish a good lifting routine for months before starting another cycle. Keep it simple like 400mg of test a week. Before anything get bloodwork done pre, mid and post cycle.

This was the reply I was looking for.
Straight forward, actionable and polite.
No offense taken, my physique needs much work.
Do you think test300 primo300 NPP200 is too much for second cycle (forget gh and slin)? Considering I've already done something similar. I'd like to use primo instead of AI and NPP for joints/more gains. Since I don't plan on cruising I'm always trying to get bigger bang for my buck during suppression.
I'll definitely train for a few months longer before going back on cycle, I'm tracking strength gains this time so will consider starting second cycle when those stagnate.
I also have better access to bloodwork this time around so will be doing that as well. Will also keep dosages steady, it'll be much easier with bloodwork as reference.
Thanks for the great reply!

 

[DECLAN]

Is there a reason why you can't make your drug choice simple?

I would push my test to where my limits are then add primo to control estrogen without the use of ai and just rely on food to gain lean tissue.

Too much attention being placed on drugs instead of dialing your nutrition and training.

 

[cinder]

Is there a reason why you can't make your drug choice simple?

I would push my test to where my limits are then add primo to control estrogen without the use of ai and just rely on food to gain lean tissue.

Too much attention being placed on drugs instead of dialing your nutrition and training.

Hii, you make some good points.
I'm trying to minimize androgenic effects, and I'm under the impression that test is much more androgenic compared to NPP and Primo. I'm likely basing lots of my preconceptions on broscience (real struggle finding valid sources of info). Essentially not looking to be manlier as much as simply bigger, so trying to keep test lower.
Attention is being placed on the drugs since this was the biggest mistake I made (am focusing on training properly atm, drugs for future me)
Thanks for the reply!

 

[DECLAN]

Hii, you make some good points.
I'm trying to minimize androgenic effects, and I'm under the impression that test is much more androgenic compared to NPP and Primo. I'm likely basing lots of my preconceptions on broscience (real struggle finding valid sources of info). Essentially not looking to be manlier as much as simply bigger, so trying to keep test lower.
Attention is being placed on the drugs since this was the biggest mistake I made (am focusing on training properly atm, drugs for future me)
Thanks for the reply!

View: https://youtu.be/XBWfysd1qgQ?si=RDdxfiPbdLLd7Syv


This is a great watch, lots of details on how to dial in test usage.

J3 university has great content check out the other videos too for research purposes.

 

[GMC]

Great reply!
I only do lats on chest day cause when I do chest I feel my upper back working hard (might be cause of my form idk) and lat pulldowns are there to balance. Pull-ups sound interesting but isn't it just basically the same as lat pulldowns?

As I said, I’m no expert…but I’ll try answer the best I know.
Obviously they both hit lats, but pull ups hit a much greater area of back, shoulders, and arms…and gives you the thickness/size you’re after.
More bang, for your buck…so to speak!! If you don’t want to do pull ups, don’t - but don’t leave out the heavy rows.

I've never trained shoulders, they've always been wide and I don't wanna look like a billboard.

Basically, It’s about avoiding injury, balance/proportions, and functional strength. If you train one body part and not another, you’re simply just not going grow right…and prob do yourself some damage along the way.

I agree the progress could've been done natty, I guess my question is can't you make that point indefinitely? At what point does it become a "valid" option to go on cycle realistically?

In the ideal world, we’d all have waited till maxing out natty gains before gearing up, to get to the next level - I don’t think many truly do (I for sure did not, but I now wish I had!). However, at least get some of the way first. What’s the point stressing you body, messing hormones up permanently, and potentially risking harm to yourself by jumping straight on the juice when you can get at least that far (or closer at least) without?
Also, gives you a bit of time to figure out how to train properly, eat right, and generally know how stuff works…so when you do go on, you don’t fuck it up training like shit!! It’s a bit like going out to buy a helicopter, why you don’t know how to fly, blind, and scared of heights !!
Not to mention dealing with any unwanted sides - unless you enjoyed the itchy nips and onset of gyno, and taking a few years off life. Everything has a price.
The less shit you have to put in yourself, the better, no? Think about your heart, liver, and boners - if nothing else!! You’re messing around with pretty serious medications, that’s true purpose isn’t really for lifting weights and looking pretty.

However, what’s done, is done…you can’t change it now, but you can certainly get it right for next time, and limit any unknown damage that might cause you big problems further down the line.

You’ll thank yourself for it later.

 

[Dang-1]

I like the idea of getting a solid gym routine down first along with your structured 5 meals a day focused on 40g protein per. Once that’s solid for a few months then maybe run your second cycle. The 11 months off is the biggest red flag here as most people who turn to AAS have hit a plateau after years in the gym and want to push past it, 11 months off tells me the gym may not really be your thing and therefore this whole AAS use may just a waste for you. For most on here the gym is a central part of our lives, mental health, confidence, stress relief, ect… the thought of taking even a month off is a bit crazy sounding to most of us let alone almost a whole year.

With that said, For your second cycle 800mg a week is a bit Agressive. Insulin is just dangerous for anyone let alone someone on a second run, if your hell bent on it try some metformin instead.I know what you’re saying about lower test higher primo cycles to lower sides and this is valid. If NPP is really joint support you can drop it down to just 100mg week. I’ll echo the pre, during and post bloodwork as bieng critical. You absolutely have to read up on a full PCT grab some Clomid along with Nolvadex and follow the recommendations in that sticky thread.

 

[RiceNKimchi]

The ai use is all over the place and hasn't been brought up much. You ran 12.5 eod for like a week then 12.5 Ed, then 12.5/25 mg eod swapped, then 25 mg Ed.

That is a lot of aromasin to be going off feels.

 

[cinder]

View: https://youtu.be/XBWfysd1qgQ?si=RDdxfiPbdLLd7Syv


This is a great watch, lots of details on how to dial in test usage.

J3 university has great content check out the other videos too for research purposes.

Great share thanks!
Would've been nice if this was available in 2022
Interesting how he mentions wishing that he had taken GH (and possibly slin? vaguely inferred) much earlier in his journey as a way to min/max health risks (29:56-31:37).
I do realize that he's talking about being a career pro, but if the pro's are doing it to min/max health risks then shouldn't everyone?
I'm glad this podcast makes it very clear what strategy should be used to find optimal test dosage (37:41-39:12). I was definitely manic with the way I approached it; got impatient and just increased test by too much meaning I had to work backwards to find the stable dose (also should've been referencing bloodwork instead of going by feel obvs).