ROAST ME! First Cycle Results w/ Pics (Test E, Primo E, Trest/MENT A, MK677)

[cinder]

The ai use is all over the place and hasn't been brought up much. You ran 12.5 eod for like a week then 12.5 Ed, then 12.5/25 mg eod swapped, then 25 mg Ed.

That is a lot of aromasin to be going off feels.

Yeah absolutely, the trest/MENT clearly worked but managing E2 blindly was stressful (there was some educational guessing but clearly still blind). I regret doing it and will pick NPP instead for the future, sounds much simpler and safer since it's been studied more.

 

[cinder]

As I said, I’m no expert…but I’ll try answer the best I know.
Obviously they both hit lats, but pull ups hit a much greater area of back, shoulders, and arms…and gives you the thickness/size you’re after.
More bang, for your buck…so to speak!! If you don’t want to do pull ups, don’t - but don’t leave out the heavy rows.

Basically, It’s about avoiding injury, balance/proportions, and functional strength. If you train one body part and not another, you’re simply just not going grow right…and prob do yourself some damage along the way.

In the ideal world, we’d all have waited till maxing out natty gains before gearing up, to get to the next level - I don’t think many truly do (I for sure did not, but I now wish I had!). However, at least get some of the way first. What’s the point stressing you body, messing hormones up permanently, and potentially risking harm to yourself by jumping straight on the juice when you can get at least that far (or closer at least) without?
Also, gives you a bit of time to figure out how to train properly, eat right, and generally know how stuff works…so when you do go on, you don’t fuck it up training like shit!! It’s a bit like going out to buy a helicopter, why you don’t know how to fly, blind, and scared of heights !!
Not to mention dealing with any unwanted sides - unless you enjoyed the itchy nips and onset of gyno, and taking a few years off life. Everything has a price.
The less shit you have to put in yourself, the better, no? Think about your heart, liver, and boners - if nothing else!! You’re messing around with pretty serious medications, that’s true purpose isn’t really for lifting weights and looking pretty.

However, what’s done, is done…you can’t change it now, but you can certainly get it right for next time, and limit any unknown damage that might cause you big problems further down the line.

You’ll thank yourself for it later.

Thanks for your feedback I'll add some rows to my plan, chest/back day was running a bit short anyway.
Also good point about having a higher risk of injury for lagging parts, although originally you thought I trained shoulders so I think I'll take my chances hehe. If it becomes an issue I'll add some lateral raises.
Amen to the rest, I'll train for a few more months while applying my learnings before starting a second cycle.
Thanks for this tips!

 

[RiceNKimchi]

Yeah absolutely, the trest/MENT clearly worked but managing E2 blindly was stressful (there was some educational guessing but clearly still blind). I regret doing it and will pick NPP instead for the future, sounds much simpler and safer since it's been studied more.

Yes do study more and realize your playing with 19nors with trest. Npp. Deca. The gyno could also be from high prolactin levels. Aromasin won't help you in that aspect and if you crash your estrogen you'll just feel worse and it won't help if it's not the problem

 

[cinder]

Yes do study more and realize your playing with 19nors with trest. Npp. Deca. The gyno could also be from high prolactin levels. Aromasin won't help you in that aspect and if you crash your estrogen you'll just feel worse and it won't help if it's not the problem

The minimal gyno I got was from bumping the test too high (400mg) without preventive AI.
I didn't actually have gyno issues on trest, I'm pretty confident the aromasin tapered the E2 successfully. Definitely luck.

 

[BigTomJ]

there was some educational guessing but clearly still blind

He's the thing, you weren't in any position to make any educated guesses because you didn't have the knowledge or experience to formulate an educated guess.


Frankly, you're all over the place, your foundational understanding is basically non-existent and you've said a couple super broscience red flags.
I don't know if you've been watching too many MPMD videos or what.

But bottom line is you really, honestly, shouldn't be touching peds at all. It's reckless, foolish, and ineffective for you.

You are nowhere near having the basics needed to really benefit from enhancement.

Spend the next year fixing your training, being consistent with your diet, and forget all about running a cycle and just spend that time reading and learning.

 

[cinder]

He's the thing, you weren't in any position to make any educated guesses because you didn't have the knowledge or experience to formulate an educated guess.


Frankly, you're all over the place, your foundational understanding is basically non-existent and you've said a couple super broscience red flags.
I don't know if you've been watching too many MPMD videos or what.

But bottom line is you really, honestly, shouldn't be touching peds at all. It's reckless, foolish, and ineffective for you.

You are nowhere near having the basics needed to really benefit from enhancement.

Spend the next year fixing your training, being consistent with your diet, and forget all about running a cycle and just spend that time reading and learning.

I heed your warning, although I believe the philosophy of withholding knowledge because "you're not ready" is as foolish as my cycle was.
Which red flags? Let's be constructive.
I've already established that I'm not rushing into another cycle, so let's make this an educational dialogue.
Thanks for your feedback

 

[DECLAN]

He's the thing, you weren't in any position to make any educated guesses because you didn't have the knowledge or experience to formulate an educated guess.


Frankly, you're all over the place, your foundational understanding is basically non-existent and you've said a couple super broscience red flags.
I don't know if you've been watching too many MPMD videos or what.

But bottom line is you really, honestly, shouldn't be touching peds at all. It's reckless, foolish, and ineffective for you.

You are nowhere near having the basics needed to really benefit from enhancement.

Spend the next year fixing your training, being consistent with your diet, and forget all about running a cycle and just spend that time reading and learning.

Well said brother. It something that resonates to most of us, I am guilty of this myself.

Most if not everyone thinks their nutrition, training and recovery regimen is on point that their main focus is on drugs and the newest peptides for enhancements. While in reality, we haven't even given 50% effort to stick to a diet or follow through a growth phase.

Listen to BigtomJ, he has the experience and knowledge by having done it and still doing it to this day.

 

[BigTomJ]

I heed your warning, although I believe the philosophy of withholding knowledge because "you're not ready" is as foolish as my cycle was.
Which red flags? Let's be constructive.
I've already established that I'm not rushing into another cycle, so let's make this an educational dialogue.
Thanks for your feedback

Just off the top of my head from parts that I've read.


You're worried about "getting more manly" from androgenicity. You're not a woman, get that concern out of your head.

Your training is wholely lacking all over the place.

No bloodwork and manically changing dosing, ancillaries, and plan

Still considering multiple compounds despite still not establishing any baseline understanding of your response to single compounds or aromatization rate.



All in all everything just seems rushed and manic.

 

[Shivathedestroyer]

@cinder I am in agreement with @BigTomJ. You have a lot of learning to do before you can safely and effectively use peds. This was an absolutely atrocious cycle.

Your hormones were fluctuating almost daily, it’s very important to keep your hormone levels as stable as possible if you want to keep your side effects at bay. You were constantly changing things around based on a bunch of stupid feels reports when you realistically had no idea what was going on at all. That’s a recipe for disaster.

You can’t even take the time and energy to weigh and track your food, or track your training progress in the gym (which is pure laziness) yet you can track every single feels report you had on a day to day basis and every single injection dose that you would change almost daily. Your priorities are way out of whack. Before you consider running any cycle you need to make sure your basics are dialed in (I.e training, nutrition, recovery, etc)

How do you expect to manage something that you’re not even measuring? Stop being lazy and prioritize what’s actually important, I get it, taking a bunch of random drugs is easier than weighing and tracking and managing your food intake. But this is why you made very little progress with all that gear, and no you did not gain 60 lbs of lean tissue. You gained a bunch of body fat.


So now that you ran an awful cycle with no actual effort or thought process put into it and made very little progress you want to run lantus and growth hormone and higher dose AAS, and you don’t even track your nutrition or training?? Cmon dude, that’s ridiculous.

You need to learn how to do these basic things and make it second nature before you even consider using things like insulin.

This was an absolute train wreck, you need to take a step back and go back to the drawing board.

 

[cinder]

Just off the top of my head from parts that I've read.


You're worried about "getting more manly" from androgenicity. You're not a woman, get that concern out of your head.

Your training is wholely lacking all over the place.

No bloodwork and manically changing dosing, ancillaries, and plan

Still considering multiple compounds despite still not establishing any baseline understanding of your response to single compounds or aromatization rate.



All in all everything just seems rushed and manic.

Thanks for the constructive response, it's very much appreciated
I guess by "more manly" I really mean an increased amount of bodyhair, I already have a good amount and didn't want this to change too drastically (for example I'll never touch Tren for this along with a plethora of other reasons).
I know someone mentioned that I was lacking back exercises so I'll add some of those, where else do you feel like I'm lacking in relation to exercises?
I would argue that although messy I did experiment with test only for 3 months so although minor it is some experience with a single compound.
Obviously my cycle was all just by feel, and I will log changes with bloodwork in the future.

 

[BigTomJ]

where else do you feel like I'm lacking in relation to exercises?

Everywhere but arms.

Seriously, forget about making your own split or program.
Pick a John meadows program that looks fun, try DC training, try greyskull, try anything but pick an established program and run it as written.

 

[cinder]

@cinder I am in agreement with @BigTomJ. You have a lot of learning to do before you can safely and effectively use peds. This was an absolutely atrocious cycle.

Your hormones were fluctuating almost daily, it’s very important to keep your hormone levels as stable as possible if you want to keep your side effects at bay. You were constantly changing things around based on a bunch of stupid feels reports when you realistically had no idea what was going on at all. That’s a recipe for disaster.

You can’t even take the time and energy to weigh and track your food, or track your training progress in the gym (which is pure laziness) yet you can track every single feels report you had on a day to day basis and every single injection dose that you would change almost daily. Your priorities are way out of whack. Before you consider running any cycle you need to make sure your basics are dialed in (I.e training, nutrition, recovery, etc)

How do you expect to manage something that you’re not even measuring? Stop being lazy and prioritize what’s actually important, I get it, taking a bunch of random drugs is easier than weighing and tracking and managing your food intake. But this is why you made very little progress with all that gear, and no you did not gain 60 lbs of lean tissue. You gained a bunch of body fat.


So now that you ran an awful cycle with no actual effort or thought process put into it and made very little progress you want to run lantus and growth hormone and higher dose AAS, and you don’t even track your nutrition or training?? Cmon dude, that’s ridiculous.

You need to learn how to do these basic things and make it second nature before you even consider using things like insulin.

This was an absolute train wreck, you need to take a step back and go back to the drawing board.

Just a correction here: 60lbs of lean tissue was a reference to gaining from 125 to 185lbs over 4 years natty, before cycle. Peak weight during the cycle was 220, post pct 200. My bf increased about 6% from pre to post cycle. I wouldn't say the progress was little, but obviously suboptimal.
Clearly during my cycle I had no concept of "steady is better", a mistake.
I'm currently tracking training progress and macros since starting up again, taking it more seriously this time around.
Thanks for the post

 

[phenominal34]

Didn’t read everything, but you didn’t come close to gaining 60 LBS OF LEAN MUSCLE TISSUE.

That is all from me lol

 

[cinder]

Didn’t read everything, but you didn’t come close to gaining 60 LBS OF LEAN MUSCLE TISSUE.

That is all from me lol

You're right probably not, that's hyperbolic of me. All guessing, I likely did gain more fat than I think.

 

[RiceNKimchi]

You're right probably not, that's hyperbolic of me. All guessing, I likely did gain more fat than I think.

You have 2 pros giving you great advice. Can't get better criticism than that

 

[cinder]

You have 2 pros giving you great advice. Can't get better criticism than that

Absolutely, I'm very greatful that this conversation is happening

 

[Shivathedestroyer]

I'm currently tracking training progress and macros since starting up again, taking it more seriously this time around.
Thanks for the post

I’m very glad to hear this, I’ve got respect for anyone who’s willing to ask for constructive criticism and then implement it without getting upset.

 

[DECLAN]

I’m very glad to hear this, I’ve got respect for anyone who’s willing to ask for constructive criticism and then implement it without getting upset.

Yep, no crying about it to Millard because the delivery of the message is mean or quiting the forum because they're butthurt when their methods are called out.

I'm way older than the OP and I'm still picking up from what I read around here everyday, especially from what you competitors and pros share.

Humility and accepting the fact that you need to listen to someone else even if your pride is stepped on is a great indication that you will advance quicker and more efficient than those who stick to their own devices, have blinders and stubborn even in mediocrity.

 

[Deskoze38192]

Great share thanks!
Would've been nice if this was available in 2022
Interesting how he mentions wishing that he had taken GH (and possibly slin? vaguely inferred) much earlier in his journey as a way to min/max health risks (29:56-31:37).
I do realize that he's talking about being a career pro, but if the pro's are doing it to min/max health risks then shouldn't everyone?
I'm glad this podcast makes it very clear what strategy should be used to find optimal test dosage (37:41-39:12). I was definitely manic with the way I approached it; got impatient and just increased test by too much meaning I had to work backwards to find the stable dose (also should've been referencing bloodwork instead of going by feel obvs).

Your really reaching by applying his hindsight views to your own personal experience
Your risk is reduced by not using GH and slin at this point.

You got some excellent well intentioned advice in this thread, just getting caught up
Funniest part is you asked to be roasted ….didn’t need to ask Lmao

 

[cinder]

Your really reaching by applying his hindsight views to your own personal experience
Your risk is reduced by not using GH and slin at this point.

You got some excellent well intentioned advice in this thread, just getting caught up
Funniest part is you asked to be roasted ….didn’t need to ask Lmao

I definitely have more growth to achieve with less compounds (and much more naturally before that), but I still wonder what the optimal timing for deploying hgh&slin might be.
I'm obviously uninformed and wouldn't use it anywhere near this stage, but if using it earlier rather than leaving it for the "ace up your sleeve" moment has health risk mitigation effects I think that's a question worth asking.
Also asking to be roasted was a preemptive strike (or self-defense mechanism you pick)