Russia begins invasion of Ukraine

[hometeam]

You're really one ignorant POS and impetuous petty motherfukker.

There are no pro Russia people posting here. Just anti war and human suffering people.

You're like a little kid cheering on a goddamn train wreck happening in slow motion.

All while men far better than you are dying by the thousands.

If you keep ignoring the facts that:

• it's Russia that is the aggressor here, they're the ones who invaded
• Russia wants Ukraine to be part of Russia
• Ukraine doesn't want to be part of Russia
• Russia could stop fighting and go home at any time
• if Ukraine stops they lose part of their country or cease to exist
• all NATO is doing here is helping Ukraine to defend themselves.

,
then you're just a pro-Russian stooge, trying to make it look like the USA is in Ukraine killing Ukrainians right now or is somehow at fault for not letting the Ukrainians get destroyed by the Russians.

 

[NorthMich]

Hughey is very touchy and sensitive. Maybe it’s because he’s starting to see that his bullshit is exactly that.

These conspiracy nutjobs… wow. Makes them damn near unemployable. Certainly not trustworthy

 

[MR_Midas]

Ukraine took back Kherson !

I hope they will already sit down at the negotiating table and end this fratricide

 

[MR_Midas]

If you keep ignoring the facts that:

• it's Russia that is the aggressor here, they're the ones who invaded
• Russia wants Ukraine to be part of Russia
• Ukraine doesn't want to be part of Russia
• Russia could stop fighting and go home at any time
• if Ukraine stops they lose part of their country or cease to exist
• all NATO is doing here is helping Ukraine to defend themselves.

,
then you're just a pro-Russian stooge, trying to make it look like the USA is in Ukraine killing Ukrainians right now or is somehow at fault for not letting the Ukrainians get destroyed by the Russians.

In general, I agree with everything, except that NATO helps. NATO has its own interests to keep the war going. War is business.

 

[Hughinn]

If you keep ignoring the facts that:

• it's Russia that is the aggressor here, they're the ones who invaded

We've been over this for dozens of pages.

Russia invaded, nobody questions that.

But they were in all fairness sorely provoked

• Russia wants Ukraine to be part of Russia

Russia says it wants Ukraine to be neutral without NATO weapons on its borders.

That's a lot different than being "part of Russia"

• Ukraine doesn't want to be part of Russia

Obviously not all of Ukraine sees it that way.

Crimean people and the people in the Donbass do want to be part of Russia

• Russia could stop fighting and go home at any time

Joe Biden and zekensky can stop this at any time as well.

And could have easily prevented this whole thing with simple low cost diplomacy before it even began

• if Ukraine stops they lose part of their country or cease to exist

Ukraine has already lost, Thier country has been pounded into rubble large parts are now occupied permanently and they're now helplessly in debt to the most corrupt regime on the planet, Washington DC.

Ukraine has already ceased to exist as a free independent nation and that's not going to change regardless of the outcome of the war.

• all NATO is doing here is helping Ukraine to defend themselves.

,

NATO is provoking the war and keeping it going for it's own reasons.

And it isn't to help Ukraine. It's to rob them

then you're just a pro-Russian stooge, trying to make it look like the USA is in Ukraine killing Ukrainians right now or is somehow at fault for not letting the Ukrainians get destroyed by the Russians.

For the last time you stupid bastard..

Being against globalist wars for Americans lives and resources to be spent for the profit of western banks, billionaire weapons manufacturers and corrupt regime's in Washington DC doesn't make someone "pro Russian"

It makes them pro American people.

Cut the bullshit

 

[hometeam]

I hope they will already sit down at the negotiating table and end this fratricide

The Institute for the Study of War (ISW) wrote this recently:
ISW does not assess the fighting in Ukraine will halt or enter a stalemate due to winter weather, despite faulty Western assumptions. NBC News reported on November 9 that some US and Western defense officials are eyeing an “expected winter slowdown in fighting as an opportunity for diplomacy to begin between Russia and Ukraine.” Autumn and springtime mud can slow or halt military advances, as can faulty or insufficient wintertime equipment. Some military equipment may need to be adapted for colder weather, and shortages of equipment or ammunition could slow advances due to logistical difficulties — not winter weather.[3] Winter weather could disproportionately harm poorly-equipped Russian forces in Ukraine, but well-supplied Ukrainian forces are unlikely to halt their counteroffensives due to the arrival of winter weather and may be able to take advantage of frozen terrain to move more easily than they could in the muddy autumn months. If fighting does halt this winter, it will be due to logistical challenges and the culmination of several campaigns on both sides. The Russian campaigns to capture all of Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, and Zaporizhia oblasts all culminated months ago (despite the repeated insistence of Russian forces on launching ineffective attacks), and Russian forces are firmly on the defensive across most of the frontline.

In general, I agree with everything, except that NATO helps. NATO has its own interests to keep the war going. War is business.

Depends on which part of Europe you are in. The Poles don't see it as a business they are genuinely worried they could be next. As you get closer to Germany the threat is not as big.

2015 Putin said of the US: "the end of the Cold War the world was left with one center of dominance, and those who found themselves at the top of the pyramid were tempted to think that, since they are so powerful and exceptional, they know best what needs to be done" and that since the Cold War "they have never abandoned their policy, which is based on arrogance, exceptionalism and impunity.” It’s pretty clear he’s upset that the US is the sole superpower right now, that Russia is not much of a player, and he isn't happy with how the US exerts that power.

Today Russia has a population of 143 million and an economy less than 1/15th the size of the US economy. But back in the Soviet union's peak they had a population of 286 million and an economy 1/3rd the size of the US. It’s not a leap to think Putin would like to annex those former states (Ukraine being the strongest) and go back to the days he can threaten the US and Europe again, where he doesn't have to rant about the US being the sole superpower. But NATO won't let that happen.

 

[hometeam]

We've been over this for dozens of pages.

Russia invaded, nobody questions that.

But they were in all fairness sorely provoked

Yeah, yeah the whole idea that Ukraine having a leader who is friendly to the West and pro-NATO is a provocation to Moscow. Nobody really believes that.

Ukraine was no threat - they didn't have nuclear weapons, NATO convinced them to give up nukes years ago, they didn't have weapons that could hit Moscow - and neighboring countries Estonia/Latvia have been NATO members since 2004.

If Putin didn't like it, it's clear now he should've restrained himself. But you're acting like the bloody Americans have invaded Ukraine and started a massacre here instead of just giving them aid they wanted to defend themselves with. "Biden this, Biden that... cabal of the Potomac... election this, election that."

Russia says it wants Ukraine to be neutral without NATO weapons on its borders.

That's a lot different than being "part of Russia"

Putin says this, Putin says that... does anybody actually believe him? He doesn't want to make Ukraine a part of Russia? Yeah right, that's why he surrounded Kiev with troops and sent a 40 mile long convoy. Like Putin is actually going to say "sorry folks, we wanted Kiev but were beaten.."

Ukraine has already lost, Thier country has been pounded into rubble large parts are now occupied permanently and they're now helplessly in debt to the most corrupt regime on the planet, Washington DC.

Ukraine has already ceased to exist as a free independent nation and that's not going to change regardless of the outcome of the war.

When the war is over Ukraine will have free and fair elections again. You can't say the same for Russia, or any territories they annex. And nobody denies Ukraine's elections were free and fair before it's just that Russia was angry the only pro-Russia candidate they ever had there was overthrown after protests and riots.

The EU said they'd pay for reconstruction costs. And this will have been Ukraine's war for independence. They will see things completely the opposite as you do. Ultimately, as a sovereign independent nation, Ukraine gets to decide what clan it belongs to. It is not up to a stronger nuclear country like Russia to decide that for them. It's not up to you to tell them what freedom looks like.

 

[Hughinn]

Yeah, yeah the whole idea that Ukraine having a leader who is friendly to the West and pro-NATO is a provocation to Moscow. Nobody really believes that.

Ukraine was no threat - they didn't have nuclear weapons, NATO convinced them to give up nukes years ago, they didn't have weapons that could hit Moscow - and neighboring countries Estonia/Latvia have been NATO members since 2004.

Stupid bastard.

Russia never said Ukraine itself was ever a threat. Ukranian puppet regime's armed with NATO weapons was.

Prior to the US state department coups in Ukraine, Russia and Ukraine gor along just fine.

If Putin didn't like it, it's clear now he should've restrained himself. But you're acting like the bloody Americans have invaded Ukraine and started a massacre here instead of just giving them aid they wanted to defend themselves with. "Biden this, Biden that... cabal of the Potomac... election this, election that."

In other words, you're shitting all over the advice of every foreign policy expert for the past forty years and howling like a moron"Putin is a megalomaniac cartoon supervillain bent on world domination and must be stopped at all costs"

Which doesn't make sense to anybody who's aware of the history.

Russia has stated plainly for over 30 years that a hostile ukranian regime armed with NATO weapons was unacceptable to their national security interests.

You're simply the type of gutless cunt that thinks you can shit on another man's porch and not worry about him knocking your teeth out.

But if he shits on yours, you should be able to call the cops and they solve all your problems for you.

Putin says this, Putin says that... does anybody actually believe him? He doesn't want to make Ukraine a part of Russia? Yeah right, that's why he surrounded Kiev with troops and sent a 40 mile long convoy. Like Putin is actually going to say "sorry folks, we wanted Kiev but were beaten.."

No indication he wanted Kiev. Or that could keep it.

Again, your spewing bullshit.

When the war is over Ukraine will have free and fair elections again.

Says who?

The same bastards that run our "free and fair elections"?

You can't say the same for Russia, or any territories they annex. And nobody denies Ukraine's elections were free and fair before

Really? Aren't you the same stupid prick that denied the government the US state department overthrew in Ukraine twice was free and fair?

You're full of bullshit and contradictions.

It's pathetic.

If Ukraine had free and fair elections, the the US state department overthrew fairly elected ukranian governments twice.

Which they did

it's just that Russia was angry the only pro-Russia candidate they ever had there was overthrown after protests and riots.

The EU said they'd pay for reconstruction costs. And this will have been Ukraine's war for independence. They will see things completely the opposite as you do. Ultimately, as a sovereign independent nation, Ukraine gets to decide what clan it belongs to. It is not up to a stronger nuclear country like Russia to decide that for them. It's not up to you to tell them what freedom looks like.

You're the chicken shit son of a bitch that said basically "the war in Ukraine is good for American interest because we don't like Russia"

In other words, you're a gutless piece of shit that condones manipulating people to fight each other to serve yourself. Because your a cunt that wouldn't fight for himself anyway .

 

[Hughinn]

Yeah, yeah the whole idea that Ukraine having a leader who is friendly to the West and pro-NATO is a provocation to Moscow. Nobody really believes that.

Ukraine was no threat - they didn't have nuclear weapons, NATO convinced them to give up nukes years ago, they didn't have weapons that could hit Moscow - and neighboring countries Estonia/Latvia have been NATO members since 2004.

Stupid bastard.

Russia never said Ukraine itself was ever a threat. Ukranian puppet regime's armed with NATO weapons was.

Prior to the US state department coups in Ukraine, Russia and Ukraine gor along just fine.

If Putin didn't like it, it's clear now he should've restrained himself. But you're acting like the bloody Americans have invaded Ukraine and started a massacre here instead of just giving them aid they wanted to defend themselves with. "Biden this, Biden that... cabal of the Potomac... election this, election that."

In other words, you're shitting all over the advice of every foreign policy expert for the past forty years and howling like a moron"Putin is a megalomaniac cartoon supervillain bent on world domination and must be stopped at all costs"

Which doesn't make sense to anybody who's aware of the history.

Russia has stated plainly for over 30 years that a hostile ukranian regime armed with NATO weapons was unacceptable to their national security interests.

You're simply the type of gutless cunt that thinks you can shit on another man's porch and not worry about him knocking your teeth out.

But if he shits on yours, you should be able to call the cops and they solve all your problems for you.

Putin says this, Putin says that... does anybody actually believe him? He doesn't want to make Ukraine a part of Russia? Yeah right, that's why he surrounded Kiev with troops and sent a 40 mile long convoy. Like Putin is actually going to say "sorry folks, we wanted Kiev but were beaten.."


When the war is over Ukraine will have free and fair elections again. You can't say the same for Russia, or any territories they annex. And nobody denies Ukraine's elections were free and fair before it's just that Russia was angry the only pro-Russia candidate they ever had there was overthrown after protests and riots.

The EU said they'd pay for reconstruction costs. And this will have been Ukraine's war for independence. They will see things completely the opposite as you do. Ultimately, as a sovereign independent nation, Ukraine gets to decide what clan it belongs to. It is not up to a stronger nuclear country like Russia to decide that for them. It's not up to you to tell them what freedom looks like.

You're the chicken shit son of a bitch that said "

 

[hometeam]

Prior to the US state department coups in Ukraine, Russia and Ukraine gor along just fine.

Not at all, there was the Orange Revolution in 2004 because the Russians (or Russian backed people, now sheltered in Russia) did this to the Ukrainian President Yushchenko to try and kill him and get their pro-Russian puppet Yanukovych installed instead:

In other words, you're shitting all over the advice of every foreign policy expert for the past forty years and howling like a moron"Putin is a megalomaniac cartoon supervillain bent on world domination and must be stopped at all costs"

First of all I'm not saying anything about Putin that every expert in the international relations field isn't saying.

Secondly, the only expert that warned Putin might attack if NATO courted Ukraine is Mearsheimer and plenty of people disagreed with him. And he didn't say Putin would attack he just said don't risk it. He actually thought taking away Ukraine's nuclear weapons was what would ultimately lead to an attack. It's not like Putin ever said "hey if Ukraine doesn't have a pro-Russia leader I will invade them and install one myself" he's been very ambiguous about that.

And lastly, if all a Putin apologist like you can say for him is he isn't "a megalomaniac cartoon supervillain bent on world domination and must be stopped at all costs" that's not very convincing lol

 

[Hughinn]

Not at all, there was the Orange Revolution in 2004 because the Russians (or Russian backed people, now sheltered in Russia) did this to the Ukrainian President Yushchenko to try and kill him and get their pro-Russian puppet Yanukovych installed instead:
View attachment 175404

Goddamn your stupidity.

I've already told you, you fuckin retard.

The orange revolution did NOT put yushchenko out of power. It was sponsored by the US state department and put him INTO power.

For others here reading this, hometeam is an idiot and has no idea what he's talking about.

Ian Traynor: US campaign behind the turmoil in Kiev

Analysis: Ukraine, traditionally passive in its politics, has been mobilised by young democracy activists and will never be the same again.

www.theguardian.com

This hometeam idiot has said multiple times the orange revolution was a Russian coup against Yushchenko.

He's a fuckin moron. It was a US state department coup against Yanukovych to install yushchenko.

This guy is that stupid.

Don't listen to him

First of all I'm not saying anything about Putin that every expert in the international relations field isn't saying.

The only people howling the same stupid shit you are is CNN MSNBC and DNC propoganda networks.

Secondly, the only expert that warned Putin might attack if NATO courted Ukraine is Mearsheimer and plenty of people disagreed with him. And he didn't say Putin would attack he just said don't risk it. He actually thought taking away Ukraine's nuclear weapons was what would ultimately lead to an attack. It's not like Putin ever said "hey if Ukraine doesn't have a pro-Russia leader I will invade them and install one myself" he's been very ambiguous about that.

Again, your spewing bullshit.

Every foreign policy expert the past forty years has been against NATO expansion because it would lead to war with Russia and was not necessary to maintain peace and prosperity.

Experts warned that NATO expansion would lead to war but nobody listened

Analysts and diplomats have been saying since the 1990s that NATO expansion would eventually spark a conflict in Eastern Europe Russia’s military offensive in Ukraine has been underway for a...

www.thecitizen.co.tz

And lastly, if all a Putin apologist like you can say for him is he isn't "a megalomaniac cartoon supervillain bent on world domination and must be stopped at all costs" that's not very convincing lol

Oh yeah, gee it just makes more sense that instead of the typical wars for profit and consolidation of wealth and power, this war is because"Putin is a megalomaniac super villian bent on world domination and must be stopped at all costs"

Fuckin moron

 

[Hughinn]

This @hometeam idiot and the other misguided fool from the round building place in Texas @Michael Scally MD are actually just following along with the masses of ignorant blue sheep.

Thier steady diets of propoganda, lack of common sense and artificial herd type reinforcement is what drives their ignorant posts.

And I say artificial herd type reinforcement because most pro Ukraine pro war social media posts are made by bots. Government sponsored opinion generators created to get idiots just like hometeam and scally to follow along

60-80% of Twitter accounts posting on Russia-Ukraine war bots, 90% 'pro Ukraine', finds new study

Scholars from the University of Adelaide studied 5.2 million posts shared between 23 February & 8 March & found the bots may be pushing people to flee their homes in these countries.

ground.news

 

[hometeam]

The orange revolution did NOT put yushchenko out of power.

I never said it did. Do you have trouble with reading comprehension? You said "Prior to the US state department coups (in '14) in Ukraine, Russia and Ukraine got along just fine." I said no there was a poisoning and a revolution in '04. Russia had not yet started recruiting and arming militias in Ukraine though, that happened in '14, but they certainly weren't getting along fine.

This hometeam idiot has said multiple times the orange revolution was a Russian coup against Yushchenko.

False. I said there was the Orange Revolution in 2004 because the Russians (or Russian backed people, now sheltered in Russia) tried to kill Yushchenko. Go back and read it again.

Every foreign policy expert the past forty years has been against NATO expansion because it would lead to war with Russia and was not necessary to maintain peace and prosperity.

Experts warned that NATO expansion would lead to war but nobody listened

Analysts and diplomats have been saying since the 1990s that NATO expansion would eventually spark a conflict in Eastern Europe Russia’s military offensive in Ukraine has been underway for a...

www.thecitizen.co.tz

Have you even read that article? No one in that article ever said NATO expansion "would lead to war with Russia" they said it would worsen relations, which the author falsely equates to leading to war.

Oh yeah, gee it just makes more sense that instead of the typical wars for profit and consolidation of wealth and power, this war is because"Putin is a megalomaniac super villian bent on world domination and must be stopped at all costs"

Fuckin moron

Is that the bar we have to set for him? At least he's not "a megalomaniac super villian bent on world domination and must be stopped at all costs." He is antagonistic towards the West and it's reasonable to think he would like to reunite former Soviet states, to make Russia great again, to go back to the cold war times when Russia mattered. Isn't that enough of a threat? Does he have to be a cartoonish villain?

And I say artificial herd type reinforcement because most pro Ukraine pro war social media posts are made by bots. Government sponsored opinion generators created to get idiots just like hometeam and scally to follow along

Yeah I think Russia started that whole bot thing, and they were really active on Facebook during the US '16 election.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

I'm not pro anyone, I'm simply anti-War. I haven't posted much on here in general, and also because I've been busy doing my rounds of interviews on different shows (even RT) stating my position on Ukraine/Russia, and it is the same: Ukraine cannot win, and is not winning. I would love to share the links here, but I simply cannot expose my identity; I would if I could nuke all posts that had talk of buying raw and shipping them to my house, but for some reason, this board does not allow you to delete posts after a certain time, so I'm going to have to stay anon forever.

We in the anti-war scene knew exactly that the Media would take Russia pulling out as a victory; the Western media needs every single "positive" story to be twisted into propaganda, but this façade is fading. Since the midterms are over, now we can talk peace lol.

US privately asking Ukraine to drop public refusal of peace talks with Russia: Washington Post

The United States privately asked Ukraine to drop its public refusal of peace talks with Russia and signal a willingness to engage in negotiations, as the war in Ukraine drags into its ninth month,…

thehill.com

As for Kherson, Russia LEFT for many reasons: one is they are not going to risk the lives of their troops with a dam that can be blown up and flood the entire area; two, to get ready for their giant offensive in the next coming weeks. The Russians are waiting for winter to hit, when the ground freezes and the Ukrainians are freezing, as their infrastructure will be targeted even more. I stated before, the nature of this war would change after the annexation of the regions; now Russia has its gloves OFF and its TOTAL WAR instead of military operation, which is limited in nature. This is why people are telling Ukraine to sit down now and cement whatever advances they made before the winter comes, because after that, it's over for them.

Countries in Europe are already getting sick of supporting this war and want out. France is even having protests to leave NATO; Italy said it is done sending arms; the support for Ukraine isn't forever, and Russia knows this. Half of America wants nothing to do with this war, while the other half, ironically the liberals, have teamed up with Neocons to push it.

But America is finished anyway: BRICS will become the new global monetary system as Saudi Arabia will dump the Petrodollar; China/Russia will become the world's new leaders in the multipolar world that is inevitable.

Everything that could have been done to destroy America, has been done.
And you know what, I'm glad; because I'm tired of our taxes going to endless killing and destroying. Perhaps when we this system fails, we can rebuild it again and focus on ourselves, fixing all the troubles we have here at home, rather than trying to police the world like hypocrites.

At the end of the day, Russia/Ukraine is none of our business, and it only is because of the Parasite Class and their agenda.

No matter what anyone says on this board; no matter how much delusion people have; no matter how many articles the fake news media will push; our end is coming.

I've been predicting shit for YEARS before I ever came on this board, and I have yet to be incorrect. It's not because I'm a genius or some military expert; it's not because I'm psychic; its because I know who is pushing this shit and I know their playbook, and the world is sick of them.

So get ready because the next few years are going to be rough for us, and we have no one to blame but ourselves, playing along with this fake system and treacherous scum that should all be crucified along both sides of Pennsylvania Ave.

 

[hometeam]

Everything that could have been done to destroy America, has been done.
And you know what, I'm glad; because I'm tired of our taxes going to endless killing and destroying. Perhaps when we this system fails, we can rebuild it again and focus on ourselves, fixing all the troubles we have here at home, rather than trying to police the world like hypocrites.

I'm in my 40s now, and ever since I was a kid so long as I can remember, the opposition party has been saying this country is in trouble. I think there was a short period of prosperity from '91 to '01 mostly with Clinton in power that was the exception. But still you had Rush Limbaugh on the radio warning Social Security would become insolvent and the national debt is something our grandchildren would pay off etc etc

But you know what? Our country to day is the strongest on Earth. And no country except for China has a brighter future. No economist except for maybe Roubini (aka Dr Doom) would argue otherwise. I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

But America is finished anyway: BRICS will become the new global monetary system as Saudi Arabia will dump the Petrodollar; China/Russia will become the world's new leaders in the multipolar world that is inevitable.

China and India are the only two of BRICS that can make a difference and really the only scary one is China. China wants nothing to do with this Russia/Ukraine business. If anything Russia's invasion pushed China away from them. Russia has a GDP of $1.4 trillion. The GDP of China is $17 trillion and US is $20 trillion. Economically Russia is a fly to be swatted by the US and China. And the US and Chinese economies are intertwined in ways Russia's isn't. China's business and investment in Europe for China is 750 billion Euros. Business and investment in Russia for China is only 80 billion Euros. And that's not factoring in the United States. China will not risk the Belt and Road Initiative over Russia and Ukraine.

But maybe sometime after I'm dead and gone some of these emerging economies like Brazil and South Africa will make a difference in this world. Just like maybe sometime after I'm dead and gone global warming will flood the coasts and that won't be good for Brazil or South Africa.

As for Kherson, Russia LEFT for many reasons: one is they are not going to risk the lives of their troops with a dam that can be blown up and flood the entire area; two, to get ready for their giant offensive in the next coming weeks.

They left simply because they couldn't supply it and would lose too many troops trying to defend it. They went on TV and did a skit with Shoigu and Surovikin said as much. Odd because it's on the Black Sea coast and the Russians have a Navy, but they've been hiding it since the flag ship was sunk.

What you might not realize is if the bridge was blown it would mostly flood the low ground on the other side of the river from the city, where the Russians actually retreated to. You can see by looking at a picture which areas would flood:

But the flood would make a Russian retreat impossible. Even those who are very strong swimmers wouldn't be able to retreat, the water is getting cold now anyway.

the Ukrainians are freezing, as their infrastructure will be targeted even more. I stated before, the nature of this war would change after the annexation of the regions; now Russia has its gloves OFF and its TOTAL WAR instead of military operation, which is limited in nature.

After WWII, studies were done on strategic bombing campaigns that showed bombing civilian infrastructure is actually counter-productive. It actually angers the civilians, increases manufacturing output and increases morale and support for the war. This has been a basic accepted fact/principle of warfare for 80 years and Putin knows this but he needed to respond to the Kerch bridge attack or look weak.

I know pro-Russian media has been praising these attacks on the electrical grid like it will change the outcome but in reality, a cold Ukrainian burning wood to keep warm is just an angry Ukrainian. There might be a refugee crisis but that doesn't achieve any military objectives. A tank or artillery gun doesn't care if there's electricity, forward operating bases in Afghanistan were not power hungry, and NATO will supply generators for the bases. Electric rail trains have diesel backups. And Russian troops will lack electricity too.

And with conscripts coming, total war coming, gloves off coming and crushing Ukraine to nothing, you'd think they would at least be want to hold Kherson and not have to go retake it from the low ground side of the river. You'd think they would want to take Odessa and deny Ukraine access to the sea coast, let their ship launched missiles make a difference.

Also, Kherson is the city they had been reinforcing with troops from Kharkiv leading to the Kharkiv rout. Let's not pretend this wasn't important to them.

The Russians are waiting for winter to hit, when the ground freezes and the Ukrainians are freezing

The Russians are actually hoping for a ceasefire during the winter. The Institute for the Study of War (ISW) writes:
"A wintertime ceasefire would only benefit Russian forces, who would use that opportunity to bolster their faltering defenses and continue their genocidal campaign to eradicate Ukrainian identity in occupied parts of Ukraine." and
"Russian forces likely retain the capability to damage Ukrainian critical infrastructure and impose costs on Ukrainian civilians in the winter but are unlikely to be able to inflict decisive — and lasting — damage." and
"Winter weather could disproportionately harm poorly-equipped Russian forces in Ukraine, but well-supplied Ukrainian forces are unlikely to halt their counteroffensives due to the arrival of winter weather and may be able to take advantage of frozen terrain to move more easily than they could in the muddy autumn months. If fighting does halt this winter, it will be due to logistical challenges and the culmination of several campaigns on both sides."

Institute for the Study of War

This page collects ISW and CTP's updates on the conflict in Ukraine. In late February 2022, ISW began publishing daily synthetic products covering key events related to renewed Russian aggression against Ukraine.

www.understandingwar.org

At the end of the day, Russia/Ukraine is none of our business, and it only is because of the Parasite Class and their agenda.

It is only because Russia annexing Ukraine, Georgia, Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan etc would start to make them great again, start to allow them to threaten Estonia, Latvia, Poland etc and nobody wants that.

Alexander Stubb, professor in Italy, Director of the EUI Transnational School of Governance, studies and teaches this full-time. He also was Prime Minister of Finland, and when Russia attacked Georgia he was Finland's Foreign Minister and he was part of the peace talks before the attack trying to prevent the attack from happening. He learned a lot about their attitude towards their former states and what Russia wants its destiny to be. Here he talks about Russia:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEMtLZFPfck

 

[hometeam]

Ukraine cannot win, and is not winning.

Outside of a zero sum game, winning and losing is a matter of perspective. Russia could retreat from Kiev, retreat from Kharkiv, and retreat from Kherson and people like you would say they are still winning because Ukrainian soldiers are not actually marching on Moscow.

In Vietnam, US forces killed 1.1 million North Vietnam and Viet Cong soldiers (according to Vietnam's own numbers), was never beaten on the battlefield, and still when they left it felt like a loss.

In many ways the Russians have already lost. They lost in Kiev, lost about half their standing army in the process. Russia won't say how many soldiers they've lost, hasn't since March, but on October 12 the independent Russian media project iStories reported that more than 90,000 Russian soldiers had been killed, seriously wounded or gone missing in Ukraine, citing sources close to the Kremlin. They've lost thousands of tanks and armored vehicles, run out of ground launched cruise missiles and had to turn to drones. Dozens of Generals killed, more fired. The mobilization, the hurt international standing. Whatever Russia "wins" out of this won't have been worth the cost.

 

[Hughinn]

I'm not pro anyone, I'm simply anti-War. I haven't posted much on here in general, and also because I've been busy doing my rounds of interviews on different shows (even RT) stating my position on Ukraine/Russia, and it is the same: Ukraine cannot win, and is not winning. I would love to share the links here, but I simply cannot expose my identity; I would if I could nuke all posts that had talk of buying raw and shipping them to my house, but for some reason, this board does not allow you to delete posts after a certain time, so I'm going to have to stay anon forever.

We in the anti-war scene knew exactly that the Media would take Russia pulling out as a victory; the Western media needs every single "positive" story to be twisted into propaganda, but this façade is fading. Since the midterms are over, now we can talk peace lol.

US privately asking Ukraine to drop public refusal of peace talks with Russia: Washington Post

The United States privately asked Ukraine to drop its public refusal of peace talks with Russia and signal a willingness to engage in negotiations, as the war in Ukraine drags into its ninth month,…

thehill.com

As for Kherson, Russia LEFT for many reasons: one is they are not going to risk the lives of their troops with a dam that can be blown up and flood the entire area; two, to get ready for their giant offensive in the next coming weeks. The Russians are waiting for winter to hit, when the ground freezes and the Ukrainians are freezing, as their infrastructure will be targeted even more. I stated before, the nature of this war would change after the annexation of the regions; now Russia has its gloves OFF and its TOTAL WAR instead of military operation, which is limited in nature. This is why people are telling Ukraine to sit down now and cement whatever advances they made before the winter comes, because after that, it's over for them.

Countries in Europe are already getting sick of supporting this war and want out. France is even having protests to leave NATO; Italy said it is done sending arms; the support for Ukraine isn't forever, and Russia knows this. Half of America wants nothing to do with this war, while the other half, ironically the liberals, have teamed up with Neocons to push it.

But America is finished anyway: BRICS will become the new global monetary system as Saudi Arabia will dump the Petrodollar; China/Russia will become the world's new leaders in the multipolar world that is inevitable. View attachment 175434

Everything that could have been done to destroy America, has been done.
And you know what, I'm glad; because I'm tired of our taxes going to endless killing and destroying. Perhaps when we this system fails, we can rebuild it again and focus on ourselves, fixing all the troubles we have here at home, rather than trying to police the world like hypocrites.

At the end of the day, Russia/Ukraine is none of our business, and it only is because of the Parasite Class and their agenda.

No matter what anyone says on this board; no matter how much delusion people have; no matter how many articles the fake news media will push; our end is coming.

I've been predicting shit for YEARS before I ever came on this board, and I have yet to be incorrect. It's not because I'm a genius or some military expert; it's not because I'm psychic; its because I know who is pushing this shit and I know their playbook, and the world is sick of them.

So get ready because the next few years are going to be rough for us, and we have no one to blame but ourselves, playing along with this fake system and treacherous scum that should all be crucified along both sides of Pennsylvania Ave.

The shame of it is, none of this was necessary.
Nobody was threatening anybody and there was no need to expand NATO, which is obviously not a defensive treaty, but a western expansionist organization pushing a globalist monetary and centralized trading and currency system.

America was never intended to be a globalist empire, but a free constitutional Republic.

Every empire falls, almost always because of over expansion and constant acquisition of territory that cannot be held indefinitely.

These idiots like @hometeam who think this is some kind of video game fantasy situation where it's "us and the good guys vs the bad guys" are a big part of the problem.
The childish stupidity of these people enables the crooked bastards in Washington to pursue thier vision of world empire by cheering on the criminality and manipulative actions they use to that end.

There's literally no US legitimate national security concern in Ukraine.
There's literally no coherent rebuttals and no argument against the observation that this could have easily been prevented by simple low cost diplomacy by US NATO Ukraine alliance except for "Putin is a megalomaniac super villian bent on world domination".

And the goddamn fools fall for it. Just like with Saddam Hussein, Osama bin laden, Gaddafi, and whomever these stupid people call the "Hitler of the month"

Thier Boogeyman went from Donald Trump to Putin.

Next will be whoever the establishment sics them on next because they can't think for themselves.

That ignorant bastard @hometeam is exactly the type of person who was burning old hermit ladies and promiscuous girls in Salem hundreds of years ago because they got blamed for a plague or some shit.

Fuckin mindless bellowing idiot

 

[Hughinn]

Outside of a zero sum game, winning and losing is a matter of perspective. Russia could retreat from Kiev, retreat from Kharkiv, and retreat from Kherson and people like you would say they are still winning because Ukrainian soldiers are not actually marching on Moscow.

In Vietnam, US forces killed 1.1 million North Vietnam and Viet Cong soldiers (according to Vietnam's own numbers), was never beaten on the battlefield, and still when they left it felt like a loss.

In many ways the Russians have already lost. They lost in Kiev, lost about half their standing army in the process. Russia won't say how many soldiers they've lost, hasn't since March, but on October 12 the independent Russian media project iStories reported that more than 90,000 Russian soldiers had been killed, seriously wounded or gone missing in Ukraine, citing sources close to the Kremlin. They've lost thousands of tanks and armored vehicles, run out of ground launched cruise missiles and had to turn to drones. Dozens of Generals killed, more fired. The mobilization, the hurt international standing. Whatever Russia "wins" out of this won't have been worth the cost.

And what has Ukraine lost?

The only people who "win" here are the defense industry and the politicians who support them.

Russia will keep the annexed regions. And there's nothing anybody can do to stop them.

Ukraine will be looted by western banks and corporatized by the international monetary system and will never again be a free and independent people or nation.

Thousands have died. Trillions were spent and millions will suffer.

Ukranian people will suffer, Russian people will suffer. People all over the world will suffer.


So congratulations you mealy mouthed chickenshit cocksucker!

One day it'll be your turn, because we all get what's coming to us. Both as nations and as individuals.

I will not join you in relishing the robbery and looting of a murdered and defeated people. And I curse your cowardly guts for egging such a tragedy on.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

I'm in my 40s now, and ever since I was a kid so long as I can remember, the opposition party has been saying this country is in trouble. I think there was a short period of prosperity from '91 to '01 mostly with Clinton in power that was the exception. But still you had Rush Limbaugh on the radio warning Social Security would become insolvent and the national debt is something our grandchildren would pay off etc etc

But you know what? Our country to day is the strongest on Earth. And no country except for China has a brighter future. No economist except for maybe Roubini (aka Dr Doom) would argue otherwise. I wouldn't lose sleep over it.


China and India are the only two of BRICS that can make a difference and really the only scary one is China. China wants nothing to do with this Russia/Ukraine business. If anything Russia's invasion pushed China away from them. Russia has a GDP of $1.4 trillion. The GDP of China is $17 trillion and US is $20 trillion. Economically Russia is a fly to be swatted by the US and China. And the US and Chinese economies are intertwined in ways Russia's isn't. China's business and investment in Europe for China is 750 billion Euros. Business and investment in Russia for China is only 80 billion Euros. And that's not factoring in the United States. China will not risk the Belt and Road Initiative over Russia and Ukraine.

But maybe sometime after I'm dead and gone some of these emerging economies like Brazil and South Africa will make a difference in this world. Just like maybe sometime after I'm dead and gone global warming will flood the coasts and that won't be good for Brazil or South Africa.

They left simply because they couldn't supply it and would lose too many troops trying to defend it. They went on TV and did a skit with Shoigu and Surovikin said as much. Odd because it's on the Black Sea coast and the Russians have a Navy, but they've been hiding it since the flag ship was sunk.

What you might not realize is if the bridge was blown it would mostly flood the low ground on the other side of the river from the city, where the Russians actually retreated to. You can see by looking at a picture which areas would flood:
View attachment 175446
But the flood would make a Russian retreat impossible. Even those who are very strong swimmers wouldn't be able to retreat, the water is getting cold now anyway.


After WWII, studies were done on strategic bombing campaigns that showed bombing civilian infrastructure is actually counter-productive. It actually angers the civilians, increases manufacturing output and increases morale and support for the war. This has been a basic accepted fact/principle of warfare for 80 years and Putin knows this but he needed to respond to the Kerch bridge attack or look weak.

I know pro-Russian media has been praising these attacks on the electrical grid like it will change the outcome but in reality, a cold Ukrainian burning wood to keep warm is just an angry Ukrainian. There might be a refugee crisis but that doesn't achieve any military objectives. A tank or artillery gun doesn't care if there's electricity, forward operating bases in Afghanistan were not power hungry, and NATO will supply generators for the bases. Electric rail trains have diesel backups. And Russian troops will lack electricity too.

And with conscripts coming, total war coming, gloves off coming and crushing Ukraine to nothing, you'd think they would at least be want to hold Kherson and not have to go retake it from the low ground side of the river. You'd think they would want to take Odessa and deny Ukraine access to the sea coast, let their ship launched missiles make a difference.

Also, Kherson is the city they had been reinforcing with troops from Kharkiv leading to the Kharkiv rout. Let's not pretend this wasn't important to them.


The Russians are actually hoping for a ceasefire during the winter. The Institute for the Study of War (ISW) writes:
"A wintertime ceasefire would only benefit Russian forces, who would use that opportunity to bolster their faltering defenses and continue their genocidal campaign to eradicate Ukrainian identity in occupied parts of Ukraine." and
"Russian forces likely retain the capability to damage Ukrainian critical infrastructure and impose costs on Ukrainian civilians in the winter but are unlikely to be able to inflict decisive — and lasting — damage." and
"Winter weather could disproportionately harm poorly-equipped Russian forces in Ukraine, but well-supplied Ukrainian forces are unlikely to halt their counteroffensives due to the arrival of winter weather and may be able to take advantage of frozen terrain to move more easily than they could in the muddy autumn months. If fighting does halt this winter, it will be due to logistical challenges and the culmination of several campaigns on both sides."

Institute for the Study of War

This page collects ISW and CTP's updates on the conflict in Ukraine. In late February 2022, ISW began publishing daily synthetic products covering key events related to renewed Russian aggression against Ukraine.

www.understandingwar.org

It is only because Russia annexing Ukraine, Georgia, Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan etc would start to make them great again, start to allow them to threaten Estonia, Latvia, Poland etc and nobody wants that.

Alexander Stubb, professor in Italy, Director of the EUI Transnational School of Governance, studies and teaches this full-time. He also was Prime Minister of Finland, and when Russia attacked Georgia he was Finland's Foreign Minister and he was part of the peace talks before the attack trying to prevent the attack from happening. He learned a lot about their attitude towards their former states and what Russia wants its destiny to be. Here he talks about Russia:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEMtLZFPfck

You're repeating Media talking points on Kherson without any evdience whatsoever.

Read this: Surovikin’s Difficult Choice

 

[hometeam]

You're repeating Media talking points on Kherson without any evdience whatsoever.

Read this: Surovikin’s Difficult Choice

Anyone who reads it can see the evidence:

• Flooding would happen on the low side of the river where the Russians retreated to, pictures and topography shows this
• Kherson was important to Russia, the fact that they reinforced it with troops from Kharkiv and Putin saying "Kherson is Russia forever" six weeks prior to this and "an attack on Kherson is an attack on Russia" shows this
• Kherson is important for taking Odessa and denying Ukraine the coast, which would be an important goal with total war
• Russia wants a winter ceasefire and winter favors those fighting on their own land, the ISW analysis shows that

And furthermore, you're underestimating American support for Ukraine. Recent polls show anywhere from 57% to 70% support more aid to Ukraine depending on how the poll was phrased. And in case you haven't noticed, the US just had an election a few days ago. The dems will keep the Senate, if the Republicans take the house it'll be slim, and Ukraine will get aid for at least 2 more years. The US spent $40 billion a year in Afghanistan for 2 decades and still managed to fight a war in Iraq and deter the Chinese the same time. There was a pretty bad recession in '08 too.

You know someone's mind is really twisted when they feel they can't get the truth from the free press and they have to seek out obscure sources no one believes to "educate"/brainwash them and tell them what they want to hear.