Russia begins invasion of Ukraine

[Hughinn]

Why are you misleading people like this? You said there was a coup and stated it matter of fact. I said "We didn't arm any militias in Ukraine like Russia did" and that's true. And arming militias would be part of creating such a coup, like with Bay of Pigs in Cuba. We didn't do that in Ukraine, Russia did.

Then you send this link about us sending some minor aid and arms to the Ukrainian military, not militias, in response to Russia arming separatist militias and you say "The US has been arming Ukrainian neo Nazi militia groups in Ukraine since 2014" and we haven't - this was the regular Ukrainian army (Azov Battalion is regular army), who had nothing to do with the Maidan protests, the crackdown, or Yanukovych leaving to Russia and not coming back.

And the fact is, Russia was sending these separatist militias armored vehicles, rockets and other arms the Ukrainians were having trouble with, Obama was being pressured to send the javelin and heavy equipment to counter and eliminate them but after debate he decided not to because he was afraid it would escalate and maybe "provoke" Putin so the war between the Ukrainian army and Russian backed separatist militias raged on for 8 years when we could've sent Ukraine enough aid to stop it.

Here's 4 former administration officials who testify to that, and I've linked to the exact part where they say it:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOTx7HxVDsM&t=2781s


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jXLcCrLrh4&t=1548s


View: https://youtu.be/CiKZPRoqOpg?t=1921

The Putin Files: William Burns

So, what's wrong with you that you just can't say it like it really is?

More lies and bullshit.

It's literally all you've got.

Because the Ukrainian military is infused from the top to the bottom with neo Nazi militia men. They're not separate entities at all

And the US has been arming and training them since 2014

US-Funded Neo-Nazis in Ukraine Mentor US White Supremacists

groups.google.com

Is the US backing neo-Nazis in Ukraine? - Salon.com

John McCain and other State Department members have troubling ties to the ultra-nationalist Svoboda party

www.salon.com

 

[Hughinn]

Again this doesn't say we funded some George Soros type protest. Why are you acting like you know for a fact that's what happened? There is no evidence of that. Zero. None. Even if we did, which is perfectly fine for us to do in a democratic country, that wasn't the cause of Yanukovych's downfall it was the Russian/Syrian style crackdown of the protest and the outrage afterwards.

Do you not know the difference between a hunch of yours and something that's factually known?


That's not what you've shown. You've shown a little known paper from a biased political science professor that wasn't printed, everybody it was presented to said was crap, and another professor dismantles it piece-by-piece here:

The Study of Ukrainian Nationalism at the University of Ottawa

In October of this year, Ivan Katchanovski who is based at the School of Political

ukrainian-studies.ca

So, what's wrong with you that you're acting like this is some kind of proof?

Lmfao

"There's no proof the US funded the MAIDAN coup" - @hometeam

While rational people wonder where the billions of dollars Victoria Nuland spent

Victoria Nuland Admits USA Spent 5 BILLION To Subvert Ukraine

www.investmentwatchblog.com

What was this money spent on?

Victoria Nuland's 'Ukraine-gate' Deceptions


Lmfao...

You must enjoy making yourself look stupid

 

[hometeam]

More lies and bullshit.

It's literally all you've got.

Because the Ukrainian military is infused from the top to the bottom with neo Nazi militia men. They're not separate entities at all

And the US has been arming and training them since 2014

US-Funded Neo-Nazis in Ukraine Mentor US White Supremacists

groups.google.com

Is the US backing neo-Nazis in Ukraine? - Salon.com

John McCain and other State Department members have troubling ties to the ultra-nationalist Svoboda party

www.salon.com

I dunno, when I think of Nazis I think of extermination camps, elimination of 6 million Jews, Hitler trying to conquer Europe. That's not going on in Ukraine. Putin's just using different historical associations and lineages (Bandera) and symbols to rile up his people.

Here's a documentary about the Neo Nazis in Germany today:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6bH2fHbt2w

And everyone is fine with it as long as they aren't killing Jews and invading Poland.

Here's one on Neo Nazis in the US:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XFBVAAzXjc

 

[Hughinn]

I dunno, when I think of Nazis I think of extermination camps, elimination of 6 million Jews, Hitler trying to conquer Europe.

In other words, you don't consider the proud grandsons of the Galatian SS describing themselves as Nazis as actual Nazis.

Lmfao

So went from "the US is not arming and training Nazis in Ukranian armed forces"

To "well I don't consider them Nazis just because they call themselves Nazis and espouse the same ideology"

Too funny.

But I bet you don't question a bunch of degenerate rednecks in Charlottesville were Nazis do you?

You literally must enjoy making yourself look stupid

But I get it, you're a liberal, you can't help it

That's not going on in Ukraine. Putin's just using different historical associations and lineages (Bandera) and symbols to rile up his people.

Here's a documentary about the Neo Nazis in Germany today:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6bH2fHbt2w

And everyone is fine with it as long as they aren't killing Jews and invading Poland.

 

[hometeam]

Lmfao

"There's no proof the US funded the MAIDAN coup" - @hometeam

While rational people wonder where the billions of dollars Victoria Nuland spent

Victoria Nuland Admits USA Spent 5 BILLION To Subvert Ukraine

www.investmentwatchblog.com

What was this money spent on?

Victoria Nuland's 'Ukraine-gate' Deceptions


Lmfao...

You must enjoy making yourself look stupid

Yeah that doesn't mean she funded the protest in some George Soros manner. She might have, but even if she did you can fund protests in other countries - no one has any problem with that. In fact the people could use the money. People have a problem with the Russian/Syrian style crackdown and that's why Yanukovych fled. There's no videos of her cutting checks or handing out cash to protesters.

More likely she was bribing people for the interim government, getting the EU association agreement done. But the election was held about 7 months later and there's no dispute it was a fair election.

And she didn't call that Russian special forces helicopter to pick Yanukovych up and permanently bring him to Russia. That's what ended his Presidency. He gave up on it.

 

[hometeam]

In other words, you don't consider the proud grandsons of the Galatian SS describing themselves as Nazis as actual Nazis.

Lmfao

So went from "the US is not arming and training Nazis in Ukranian armed forces"

To "well I don't consider them Nazis just because they call themselves Nazis and espouse the same ideology"

Too funny.

But I bet you don't question a bunch of degenerate rednecks in Charlottesville were Nazis do you?

You literally must enjoy making yourself look stupid

But I get it, you're a liberal, you can't help it

In a democracy you can think whatever you want. For instance, you think Biden is worse than Putin. But the only problem we had with Nazi Germany is the extermination camps, elimination of 6 million Jews, Hitler trying to conquer Europe. You don't go invading a country because you don't like the beliefs, associations, symbols or lineages of some of their people. If we did France would be in trouble.

In the US we have plenty of companies that helped Nazi Germany: IBM, Chase Bank, Ford, etc. And we have neo nazi groups like most countries do. But there's no extermination camps.

 

[Hughinn]

Yeah that doesn't mean she funded the protest in some George Soros manner. She might have, but even if she did you can fund protests in other countries - no one has any problem with that. In fact the people could use the money. People have a problem with the Russian/Syrian style crackdown and that's why Yanukovych fled. There's no videos of her cutting checks or handing out cash to protesters.

More likely she was bribing people for the interim government, getting the EU association agreement done. But the election was held about 7 months later and there's no dispute it was a fair election.

And she didn't call that Russian special forces helicopter to pick Yanukovych up and permanently bring him to Russia. That's what ended his Presidency. He gave up on it.

Whatever man

 

[Hughinn]

In a democracy you can think whatever you want.

Ideally yes.

For instance, you think Biden is worse than Putin.

Not worse. But not better either

But the only problem we had with Nazi Germany is the extermination camps, elimination of 6 million Jews, Hitler trying to conquer Europe. You don't go invading a country because you don't like the beliefs, associations, symbols or lineages of some of their people. If we did France would be in trouble.

Poor France lol

In the US we have plenty of companies that helped Nazi Germany: IBM, Chase Bank, Ford, etc. And we have neo nazi groups like most countries do. But there's no extermination camps.

Okay. Fair enough. Nazism is just an ideology and by itself the beliefs are not crimes. I'm libertarian. I agree with you completely

But in America the left hates Nazis more than anything and the right merely tolerates them as long as they're peaceful, keep it quiet and to themselves.

here these Nazis are militant, loud, proud and in charge. But the American left somehow supports them, or at least knowingly chooses to look the other way.

that tells me that the people at the top of the leftist movement don't really care about ideological goals one way or another. It's just about money and power and who can help them get it and hold onto it, and who can't.

 

[Fautquejyaille]

Ab

Which brings up a question about the bullshit @hometeam keeps parroting about the Washington led and funded coup in Ukraine, that he keeps claiming was about "Ukrainian independence" and not a sponsored textbook color revolution

What type of “organic” protest movement insists on allowing foreign governments and NGO’s to remain involved in their domestic politics?

Certainly not one who's entire aim is national sovereignty and independence

Absolutly right my friend

 

[Fautquejyaille]

Again this doesn't say we funded some George Soros type protest. Why are you acting like you know for a fact that's what happened? There is no evidence of that. Zero. None. Even if we did, which is perfectly fine for us to do in a democratic country, that wasn't the cause of Yanukovych's downfall it was the Russian/Syrian style crackdown of the protest and the outrage afterwards.

Do you not know the difference between a hunch of yours and something that's factually known?


That's not what you've shown. You've shown a little known paper from a biased political science professor that wasn't printed, everybody it was presented to said was crap, and another professor dismantles it piece-by-piece here:

The Study of Ukrainian Nationalism at the University of Ottawa

In October of this year, Ivan Katchanovski who is based at the School of Political

ukrainian-studies.ca

So, what's wrong with you that you're acting like this is some kind of proof? The minority unproven opposing viewpoint is not something you can talk about as if it's a fact.

War maker in usa georges soros
War maker in france Bernard henri levy

 

[Fautquejyaille]

I dunno, when I think of Nazis I think of extermination camps, elimination of 6 million Jews, Hitler trying to conquer Europe. That's not going on in Ukraine. Putin's just using different historical associations and lineages (Bandera) and symbols to rile up his people.

Here's a documentary about the Neo Nazis in Germany today:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6bH2fHbt2w

And everyone is fine with it as long as they aren't killing Jews and invading Poland.

Here's one on Neo Nazis in the US:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XFBVAAzXjc

The big liar of the last century
The jew holocaust with the gas chamber

 

[hometeam]

War maker in usa georges soros
War maker in france Bernard henri levy

Soros is actually Hungarian, and moved to the UK at 17. A multi billionaire. But what Daniel Fried (Victoria Nuland's predecessor) says is these protests are more successful than anything even Soros can do, so what makes you think the State Department can? If their heart isn't in it, it's not going to work.

that tells me that the people at the top of the leftist movement don't really care about ideological goals one way or another. It's just about money and power and who can help them get it and hold onto it, and who can't.

I think what happened with the Ukrainian Azov battalion is they're fighting these Russian backed militia, and they weren't winning because Russia's sending them arms and armored vehicles and missiles, people in their unit are being killed, they know Russians hate Nazis so they start using Nazi themes to upset them.

And historically, in the 1930's and 1940's there was a war between socialist Nazis and the communist Soviets, and the Ukrainians who favored separation from the Soviet Union tended to favor the Soviet opposition which happened to be Nazi Germany. Now, nearly everyone in Ukraine favors being separate from Russia (except for along the border) because of what Russia has been doing to their country, so Russia wants to call them all Nazis and say they're just like Stepan Bandera, a Nazi collaborator who advocated for an independent Ukraine.

It's not an argument many people buy, and Russian soldiers have gone into Ukraine and said "where's the Nazis?" And the fact is Stalin with his purges and gulags was nearly as bad as Hitler. Stalin is still well liked in Russia.

But if you're Putin, it might rile up your people to say they're fighting a bunch of Nazis. It reminds me a whole lot of Godwin's Law:

 

[Hughinn]

Soros is actually Hungarian, and moved to the UK at 17. A multi billionaire. But what Daniel Fried (Victoria Nuland's predecessor) says is these protests are more successful than anything even Soros can do, so what makes you think the State Department can? If their heart isn't in it, it's not going to work.


I think what happened with the Ukrainian Azov battalion is they're fighting these Russian backed militia, and they weren't winning because Russia's sending them arms and armored vehicles, people in their unit are being killed, they know Russians hate Nazis so they start using Nazi themes to upset them.

In other words, ideology has nothing to do with supporting the neo Nazi militia groups in Ukraine.

It's just about politics and money

At least you can understand the obvious.

And historically, in the 1930's and 1940's there was a war between socialist Nazis and the communist Soviets, and the Ukrainians who favored separation from the Soviet Union tended to favor the Soviet opposition which happened to be Nazi Germany. Now, nearly everyone in Ukraine favors being separate from Russia (except for along the border) because of what Russia has been doing to their country, so Russia wants to call them all Nazis and say they're just like Stepan Bandera, a Nazi collaborator who advocated for an independent Ukraine.

It's not an argument many people buy, and Russian soldiers have gone into Ukraine and said "where's the Nazis?" And the fact is Stalin with his purges and gulags was nearly as bad as Hitler.

Everyone knows the history.

The problem is, that we killed hundreds of thousands of people and spent Fortune's fighting an ideology that Washington is now promoting and aiding

 

[Fautquejyaille]

In other words, ideology has nothing to do with supporting the neo Nazi militia groups in Ukraine.

It's just about politics and money

At least you can understand the obvious.



Everyone knows the history.

The problem is, that we killed hundreds of thousands of people and spent Fortune's fighting an ideology that Washington is now promoting and aiding

@hometeam forget Dresden hiroshima Nagazaki
Killed at the end of WW2 for nothing

 

[Zebedee]

The big liar of the last century
The jew holocaust with the gas chamber

Are you saying that the holocaust didn’t happen?

 

[Fautquejyaille]

Are you saying that the holocaust didn’t happen?

a lot of jews were killed during the ww2 it is undeniable but not by the gas chamber which is right next to the crematorium
Gas chamber is war lie of Urss
See « Robert Faurisson the Problem of gas chamber «
I have several Jewish friends who have seen it and have been convinced by the arguments of this teacher. just a war lie by the Soviets to legitimize the massacre of the German population. a very profitable lie because the Zionists got Palestine

 

[Big_paul]

Are you saying that the holocaust didn’t happen?

I believe so.

 

[Zebedee]

I believe so.

Tbh I already knew where he stood on this before I read that post because I’d seen him raise the same issues that Holocaust deniers & Nazi / German apologists always raise to try & draw equivalence between Nazi Germany’s actions & those of the British & Americans during the war, eg the air raid on Dresden.

I was just encouraging him to fully show his colours really - notice how he says “lots of Jews” rather than “5-6 million” lol.

Fuck knows why the Soviets would need to invent the “myth of the gas chambers” to make the Germans look bad because the Germans had already done a splendid job of it themselves - around 1.5 million Soviet soldiers died as POWs in German captivity during the first 6 months of the German invasion. That’s just the Soviet POWs they killed.

Anyway, it’s pointless engaging with Nazi cunts like him.

BUT the immense scale of the death & destruction the Germans wrought on the Soviet people is an incredibly important factor in why many Russians, including Putin, see the world (& behave) as they do. It’s not something anyone in the West can relate to really - to put it into perspective, those 1.5 million Soviet POWs killed between June-Dec 1941is somewhere near the number of combined British & American military personnel KIA in both World Wars, plus the British civilians killed in German air / rocket attacks during both World Wars.

Putin isn’t just an evil megalomaniac. He’s a product of history & it’s a history that goes back long before the breakup of the Soviet Union.

 

[Hughinn]

Tbh I already knew where he stood on this before I read that post because I’d seen him raise the same issues that Holocaust deniers & Nazi / German apologists always raise to try & draw equivalence between Nazi Germany’s actions & those of the British & Americans during the war, eg the air raid on Dresden.

I was just encouraging him to fully show his colours really - notice how he says “lots of Jews” rather than “5-6 million” lol.

Fuck knows why the Soviets would need to invent the “myth of the gas chambers” to make the Germans look bad because the Germans had already done a splendid job of it themselves - around 1.5 million Soviet soldiers died as POWs in German captivity during the first 6 months of the German invasion. That’s just the Soviet POWs they killed.

Anyway, it’s pointless engaging with Nazi cunts like him.

BUT the immense scale of the death & destruction the Germans wrought on the Soviet people is an incredibly important factor in why many Russians, including Putin, see the world (& behave) as they do. It’s not something anyone in the West can relate to really - to put it into perspective, those 1.5 million Soviet POWs killed between June-Dec 1941is somewhere near the number of combined British & American military personnel KIA in both World Wars, plus the British civilians killed in German air / rocket attacks during both World Wars.

Putin isn’t just an evil megalomaniac. He’s a product of history & it’s a history that goes back long before the breakup of the Soviet Union.

Putin is also the product of history that seen the end of the cold war and the rape of the Russian people at the hands of the western globalist banking cartels.

Redirect Notice

Also the product of decades of lies and deception by the western leadership during the most vulnerable times Russia has recently faced.

NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard | National Security Archive

Western leaders gave multiple assurances against NATO expansion to Gorbachev in 1990-1991 according to declassified American, Russian, British, Germans documents

nsarchive.gwu.edu

Putin is certainly not a nice guy. But he's been lied to and fucked around over and over again.

Like most of the rest of the world and most of American people themselves, he has no reason to trust anything Washington says or does. And every reason to be suspicious and cautious about whatever they say.

But, I still believe peace is possible. But only when the truth gets to be told and all parties involved can admit thier fair share of the blame here and begin working on a solution that addresses everyone's security and economic concerns equally

Unfortunately, Washington is not interested in peace. Hasn't been anytime in modern history. War makes money.
Washington traded our manufacturing capacity and industrial economy for one based on war, pillaging and exploiting resources of weaker nations

Russia is not Iraq, Libya or Afghanistan and it was only a matter of time before they stood up and said enough already

 

[Fautquejyaille]

war war war war