SARM's + Primo thoughts

[sav88]

I want to combine SARM's with Primo for limited Side effect such as Gyno, Hair loss and Accne. What are your thoughts on this cycle:
Weeks 1-12:

Testosterone Enanthate: 750mg per week (injected in divided doses twice a week)
Primobolan (Methenolone): 600mg per week (injected in divided doses twice a week)
MK-2866 (Ostarine): 25mg per day
Cardarine (GW-501516): 20mg per day

Weeks 1-14:

HCG: 500iu twice a week (injected the day before each testosterone injection)

Weeks 15-16:

HCG: 1000iu per day for 10 days (to help kickstart natural testosterone production before beginning PCT)

Weeks 17-20:

Clomid (Clomiphene Citrate): 50mg per day
Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate): 20mg per day

 

[Hesoprimaltho]

cardarine is carcinogenic.
ostarine is pointless with everything else there, and hepatoxic like an oral, you'd be better off running var.
youre trying to "limit" acne and hair loss but you're running 750mg of test, lol.
this is clearly your first cycle and you have no idea what youre doing, yeah?
who the hell are you, why are you here? DID YOU EVEN READ THE DAMN NEW MEMBERS START HERE THREAD AT ALL????

jesus these posts are like herpes, they're everywhere and they just keep coming back.

 

[Deadp007]

Give it a go, cardarine at 20mg might be pretty aggressive, I like 10mg/day.
If this is your first cycle then it's all way way too much.

 

[All Nats McGee]

If you’re worried about hair loss and acne then cut those doses in half and drop the sarms.

 

[T&H]

I want to combine SARM's with Primo for limited Side effect such as Gyno, Hair loss and Accne. What are your thoughts on this cycle:
Weeks 1-12:

Testosterone Enanthate: 750mg per week (injected in divided doses twice a week)
Primobolan (Methenolone): 600mg per week (injected in divided doses twice a week)
MK-2866 (Ostarine): 25mg per day
Cardarine (GW-501516): 20mg per day

Weeks 1-14:

HCG: 500iu twice a week (injected the day before each testosterone injection)

Weeks 15-16:

HCG: 1000iu per day for 10 days (to help kickstart natural testosterone production before beginning PCT)

Weeks 17-20:

Clomid (Clomiphene Citrate): 50mg per day
Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate): 20mg per day

The addition of ostarine is not going to eliminate the sides of the AAS. At those doses, I doubt the osta will do anything. I'd save it for another time.

 

[UncleBuns]

I've not heard much good things about ostarine. Seems like a waste of time. RAD 140 I really enjoy. Strong neural drive at 20 - 40mg daily. Great strength and max effort. People like LGD for building but I've not used it. Seems like the common internet lore is to dose them low but they shine when dosed higher. Ostarine @ 25/RAD or LGD @ 10 is a drop in the ocean compared the the AAS you're planning to take. 30 or 40 will show you what they can do as an add on. They are way more expensive than traditional orals though and at proper dose have the same side effects as AAS.

 

[ginandcoke]

Here's a cycle for you:
- 500mg test/week for 16 weeks.
- Aromasin on hand for gyno. Start with 6-12mg a week if you start feeling sensitivity in your nips.
- Ketoconazole shampoo (Nizoral). You can use this as a hair loss preventative. It blocks DHT in your scalp.
- That's too much HCG for PCT. At least halve that. It can be very estrogenic for some. (like me)
- Just stick to Nolva. No need to combine with Clomid. Run it for at least 4 weeks. You can start immediately after your blast, no need to wait for it all to clear out. It takes 4-6 weeks for Nolva to even reach peak steady-state concentrations in your blood.

 

[CPT]

cardarine is carcinogenic.
ostarine is pointless with everything else there, and hepatoxic like an oral, you'd be better off running var.
youre trying to "limit" acne and hair loss but you're running 750mg of test, lol.
this is clearly your first cycle and you have no idea what youre doing, yeah?
who the hell are you, why are you here? DID YOU EVEN READ THE DAMN NEW MEMBERS START HERE THREAD AT ALL????

jesus these posts are like herpes, they're everywhere and they just keep coming back.

There isn’t really strong evidence of cardarine being carcinogenic at reasonable doses

 

[Iron_Yuppie]

There isn’t really strong evidence of cardarine being carcinogenic at reasonable doses

There absolutely is.

If there wasn’t then you have to explain why a drug that aids in weight loss and is really good for cholesterol—a multibillion dollar a year blockbuster—was abandoned by a profit seeking pharmaceutical company. Either it was dangerous in early stages or they decided that they didn’t want to make money. One of those answers makes sense.

 

[Jin23]

There isn’t really strong evidence of cardarine being carcinogenic at reasonable doses

The studies had reasonable dosages. It's pretty obvious cardarine is a potential risk.

 

[Deadp007]

The studies had reasonable dosages. It's pretty obvious cardarine is a potential risk.

I'd be interested in these... don't expect you to post them but can you point us in the right direction?

 

[CPT]

I'd be interested in these... don't expect you to post them but can you point us in the right direction?

It was cancer prone rodents who were given mega doses of cardarine. Can’t believe this is still being peddled

 

[Deadp007]

It was cancer prone rodents who were given mega doses of cardarine. Can’t believe this is still being peddled

Yeah, I'm familiar with that, but @Jin23 doesn't usually post bullshit

 

[Hesoprimaltho]

There isn’t really strong evidence of cardarine being carcinogenic at reasonable doses

As I understand its less about the amount of cardarine administered and more about the fact that, quite simply, it is a PPAR agonist. Thats just what it does, and there exists a crucial association of up regulating PPAR beta/delta specifically with tumor angiogenesis, progression, and cancer invasiveness. There are literally numerous studies, and they are quite easy to find on hindawi journals as well as pubmed... You just need to be prepared to spend a few days moving from one to the next to fully see the correlation and how direct it is, since there have been only limited studies specifically associated with gw501516. However numerous conclusions have been proven between PPAR beta/delta up regulation and cancer. Dose of the agonist is irrelevent, its about the up regulation itself and the resulting inhibition of PTEN (a type of gene that makes a protein called a tumor suppressor protein that helps control cell growth) expression.Mutations in antioncogenes (which is what PTEN is) very very often leads to cancer.
Smoking will give you lung cancer over time... Although some people can smoke for entire lifetimes without it happening, for some it happens in 20 years, others 5. Regardless though, we know its a sure fire outcome... Sure smoking more will quicken it, but not smoking at all will often absolutely avoid it. Same scenario.

 

[Deadp007]

Oleoylethanolamide is PPAR agonist tho & idk about any studies showing similar results... (not saying there are not any out there).

 

[Iron_Yuppie]

It was cancer prone rodents who were given mega doses of cardarine. Can’t believe this is still being peddled

Mega doses like 40mg for a 180lb man? I’ve seen more than a few people talk about taking 15-20mg multiple times a day.

 

[Hesoprimaltho]

Not sure about oleoylethanolamide, but I do know that there are three different isoforms: alpha, beta/delta, and gamma. It's the beta/delta up regulation specifically that causes the issues in relation to cell growth (e.g. tumor growth), but the other types are being explored as medications for dyslipidemias and diabetes

 

[Deadp007]

Not sure about oleoylethanolamide, but I do know that there are three different isoforms: alpha, beta/delta, and gamma. It's the beta/delta up regulation specifically that causes the issues in relation to cell growth (e.g. tumor growth), but the other types are being explored as medications for dyslipidemias and diabetes

Ahhhhhhh....... oleoylethanolamide is PPAR-alpha so that coincides with your research. I'll definitely look into this again, thank you.

 

[effswithtren]

Doubt I’ll add much that hasn’t been said, but:

You are worried about acne yet you’re wanting 750 test. Lol

You’re worried about hair loss yet you’re wanting 600 primo. Lol

You’re wanting to run over a gram of gear yet think adding ostarine will add fuck all. Lol

You’re wanting to run cardarine because ???

Also, I’m going to go out on a limb. You picked these dosages solely because it’s as much as you can fit in two 3mL shots. 1.5mL of 250 test + 1.5mL of 200 primo, twice per week.

 

[Jin23]

It was cancer prone rodents who were given mega doses of cardarine. Can’t believe this is still being peddled

This is a common misconception. You're not the first and you're certainly not the last one to have this misguided opinion.

First, rat, or any other rodent or small animal dosages, DO NOT linearly translate to human dosages.

This is how you translate rodent to human dosages:


View: https://www.reddit.com/r/NicotinamideRiboside/comments/4jf3gz/converting_mouse_dosages_to_human_equivalent/


Secondly, we've discussed this here on meso plenty of times. You can view one of our discussions here:

Longest safe time on cardarine / gw501516

I've been taking cardarine/gw501516 at 10mg for 8 weeks. I find it gives good endurance boost and think of continuing. Is it safe to be on it for long periods? How long have you run it?

thinksteroids.com

Type put it very eloquently in that thread so there is no need for me to re-explain or add anything of more value to the discussion, so I'll just quote his reply:

From the Geiger rat study that everyone loves to misrepresent, all doses trialled were associated with various cancers (e.g., stomach squamous cell papilloma in males at 5 mg/kg/day, the lowest dose trialled). 5 mg/kg/day in rat is equivalent to 0.81 mg/kg/day in adult man (the opposite of how it's reported), or ~65 mg daily for an 80 kg man.

The lowest dose (3 mg/kg) in females was shown to be carcinogenic. A 3 mg/kg/day cardarine dose is equivalent to ~24 mg daily for a 50 kg (110 lb) woman.

Anyhow, rodent carcinogenicity assays are not intended for assessing dose/response in man; instead, they are used to screen for potentially dangerous (carcinogenic) drugs. Since cardarine is profoundly carcinogenic it was not pursued to market.

See Bond, P. The Rise and Fall of Cardarine (GW501516). Sep 2021. Source: The Rise and Fall of Cardarine (GW501516) - MESO-Rx

Cardarine is cancerogenic, there really is no discussion here. Will you get cancer from it? Or will you get cancer somewhere down the line, from what you planted with cardarine use way back in the day? Not a question I'd want to empirically have answered on my self and I wouldn't recommend it to others either. There are plenty of safer ways to loose body fat, no need to experiment with some experimental, dubious compounds.