Sleep aids - Trensomina

BuildABro

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Hey there gents, so I am about to start back up on cycle soon and I have preemptively got a stash of Trazodone on hand now based upon feedback I got here regarding persistent insomnia while on cycle. My last cycle of Tren was a sleep disaster start to finish and I am not enduring that shit again. So I thought it might be wise to explore some contingency drug options in the event things don't work out for me with the Trazodone. Sleep is a basically a recreational activity for me, and moreover I am pretty fanatical about recovery so this is not something I want to encounter issues with.

For reference, my sleep hygiene in general is pretty dialed. I keep my bedroom like a catacomb. I have blackout curtains are on all the windows. I sleep on a regular schedule. No electronics for at least an hour before bedtime. Appropriate temperature. No late night snacks. I do have an ambient sound machine as I can't do total silence.
 
Keep us updated how you get on with the trazadone, I use zopiclone, I try to use as infrequently as possible but I’m like you, as soon as I start tren I just sit there night after night staring at the ceiling, It’s the one side I can’t deal with, good luck brother !
 
Keep us updated how you get on with the trazadone, I use zopiclone, I try to use as infrequently as possible but I’m like you, as soon as I start tren I just sit there night after night staring at the ceiling, It’s the one side I can’t deal with, good luck brother !
Will do, and here's to hoping the Trazodone is effective as I have a bunch of it that I got from BG.
 
Another vote for Zopiclone. An "infant dose", 3.75mg, half the usual 7.5mg dose is enough for me. The sleepiness comes on within 20 minutes or so, strong enough to easily fall asleep, but it actually wears off quickly so if you "fight it" it'll wear off within an hour or so.

The good thing about this mechanism of action is that it's enough to send you to sleep, without the long lasting. grogginess that other compounds can cause.

Eszopiclone is the same, but a more concentrated version of the same active ingredient. 2mg Eszopiclone=7.5mg Zopiclone.

Tolerance builds quickly, which is a good thing imo, reducing the chance of getting hooked, as long as you don't do something stupid like ramping up beyond a full dose.

It's the generic version of Lunesta
 
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The medical literature is pretty clear that the best treatment for chronic insomnia is cognitive behavioral therapy. It blows away any drugs. Of course, this is a special circumstance, but it's something we should always keep in mind when discussing sleep.

Trazodone is very much a YMMV drug. Some people take it at a dose prescribed for sleep and feel very little. Others feel drugged immediately with a hangover lasting well into the next day. It can cause swelling in the nasal passage, so that you can't breathe through your nose, which can interfere with sleep. Others have vivid nightmares -- I can only imagine mixing Tren dreams with trazodone nightmares. Finally, it can cause priapism in rare instances, so you gotta go to the ER with a raging boner or risk permanent wang damage. (Treatment often involves needles.)

The bad news about medical therapies is that there are very few that work over the long term, and they all have really shitty side effects. The good news is, there's a ton of them that will probably be effective and safe(ish) over the duration of a tren cycle.

The most obvious option is diphenhydramine (Benadryl in the US). It's an anti-histamine that causes drowsiness in most people. If you take too much, there's a paradoxical reversal that causes hyperactivity and something that feels like whole-body restless legs. Still, it's readily available and very cheap. Over the course of a few weeks, you'll build some tolerance but not a ton, and you'll avoid the main negative side effect of long-term use, which is dementia. It can cause a sleep hangover into the next day, so try to find the minimum effective dose, starting with a single 25 mg tablet and working up in half-tablet increments.

Along with trazodone, there are a few anti-depressants that can be taken at a lower dose to aid sleep. These are mirtazapine, nortriptyline, and amitriptyline. As far as evidence goes, another cyclic antidepressant has the best evidence as a sleep drug, which is doxepin. Trazodone remains more popular as a sleep drug (I don't know why), but the others have been used with success. My two cents: even though the dosing is lower, I would be reluctant to take anything likely to alter affect while already taking tren. I'd also be reluctant to hop on and off such medications as you cycle. If you're going to try anything, ask for doxepin. But the experiment hasn't been done and there's no data, so who the hell knows?

There's a forest of benzodiazepines, and short-term use may obviate the rapid tolerance problem. However, I'd stay away pretty much entirely. The potential for addiction is real, and the *common* side-effects include memory loss and atypical behavior. That's not something I want to stack with tren.

The non-benzo hypnotics are similar but vary pretty widely. Zolpidem (Ambien in the US) is highly effective, but builds up tolerance quickly and is associated with the worst side-effect profile. Along with the side effects of the benzos, it also includes complex somnolence... hardcore sleep walking that can have you cooking food, having sex, or even gambling while being blacked out. Of this bunch, there is only one drug that has been studied for safety and efficacy over a long term period (six months), and that is eszopiclone (Lunesta in the US). It has a milder side effect profile, but also provides milder sedation. Still, if one is going to try a hypnotic sleep aid, starting here is the move. Again -- take as little as possible and titrate up until you find a dose that works.

There's a zoo of off-label medicines that are prescribed for sleep. There's a handful of anti-psychotics (quetiapine, risperidone) but they have a heavy side-effect burden; I would try these as a last resort. Orexin (Belsomra) exists but sucks ass, empirically. Clonidine is an interesting one, in that it has the effect of lowering blood pressure, which most of us could use, but also causes muscular weakness and a dangerous dependence. Gabapentin and pregabalin are both effective at promoting sleep, especially if you have restless legs. Unfortunately, they're also being sought out as recreational drugs now, so you may have trouble finding a doctor who wants to write them. Hydroxyzine is an old anti-histamine that works for some people; sort of like Benadryl's older brother. Worth trying for just a few weeks if that's what is available.

I have sleep problems and when all of the sleep hygiene and cognitive behavioral therapy tools fail, I take eszopiclone (Lunesta). The medical literature considers it safe and effective for long-term use, doesn't make a sleepwalking sex addict, and won't contribute to dementia. It's got its downsides in terms of sleep architecture, but it's better than lying awake for hours. Everyone's mileage will vary, especially for a couple of weeks, but as a regular part of my life, it seems like the best option for me.
 
The medical literature is pretty clear that the best treatment for chronic insomnia is cognitive behavioral therapy. It blows away any drugs. Of course, this is a special circumstance, but it's something we should always keep in mind when discussing sleep.

Trazodone is very much a YMMV drug. Some people take it at a dose prescribed for sleep and feel very little. Others feel drugged immediately with a hangover lasting well into the next day. It can cause swelling in the nasal passage, so that you can't breathe through your nose, which can interfere with sleep. Others have vivid nightmares -- I can only imagine mixing Tren dreams with trazodone nightmares. Finally, it can cause priapism in rare instances, so you gotta go to the ER with a raging boner or risk permanent wang damage. (Treatment often involves needles.)

The bad news about medical therapies is that there are very few that work over the long term, and they all have really shitty side effects. The good news is, there's a ton of them that will probably be effective and safe(ish) over the duration of a tren cycle.

The most obvious option is diphenhydramine (Benadryl in the US). It's an anti-histamine that causes drowsiness in most people. If you take too much, there's a paradoxical reversal that causes hyperactivity and something that feels like whole-body restless legs. Still, it's readily available and very cheap. Over the course of a few weeks, you'll build some tolerance but not a ton, and you'll avoid the main negative side effect of long-term use, which is dementia. It can cause a sleep hangover into the next day, so try to find the minimum effective dose, starting with a single 25 mg tablet and working up in half-tablet increments.

Along with trazodone, there are a few anti-depressants that can be taken at a lower dose to aid sleep. These are mirtazapine, nortriptyline, and amitriptyline. As far as evidence goes, another cyclic antidepressant has the best evidence as a sleep drug, which is doxepin. Trazodone remains more popular as a sleep drug (I don't know why), but the others have been used with success. My two cents: even though the dosing is lower, I would be reluctant to take anything likely to alter affect while already taking tren. I'd also be reluctant to hop on and off such medications as you cycle. If you're going to try anything, ask for doxepin. But the experiment hasn't been done and there's no data, so who the hell knows?

There's a forest of benzodiazepines, and short-term use may obviate the rapid tolerance problem. However, I'd stay away pretty much entirely. The potential for addiction is real, and the *common* side-effects include memory loss and atypical behavior. That's not something I want to stack with tren.

The non-benzo hypnotics are similar but vary pretty widely. Zolpidem (Ambien in the US) is highly effective, but builds up tolerance quickly and is associated with the worst side-effect profile. Along with the side effects of the benzos, it also includes complex somnolence... hardcore sleep walking that can have you cooking food, having sex, or even gambling while being blacked out. Of this bunch, there is only one drug that has been studied for safety and efficacy over a long term period (six months), and that is eszopiclone (Lunesta in the US). It has a milder side effect profile, but also provides milder sedation. Still, if one is going to try a hypnotic sleep aid, starting here is the move. Again -- take as little as possible and titrate up until you find a dose that works.

There's a zoo of off-label medicines that are prescribed for sleep. There's a handful of anti-psychotics (quetiapine, risperidone) but they have a heavy side-effect burden; I would try these as a last resort. Orexin (Belsomra) exists but sucks ass, empirically. Clonidine is an interesting one, in that it has the effect of lowering blood pressure, which most of us could use, but also causes muscular weakness and a dangerous dependence. Gabapentin and pregabalin are both effective at promoting sleep, especially if you have restless legs. Unfortunately, they're also being sought out as recreational drugs now, so you may have trouble finding a doctor who wants to write them. Hydroxyzine is an old anti-histamine that works for some people; sort of like Benadryl's older brother. Worth trying for just a few weeks if that's what is available.

I have sleep problems and when all of the sleep hygiene and cognitive behavioral therapy tools fail, I take eszopiclone (Lunesta). The medical literature considers it safe and effective for long-term use, doesn't make a sleepwalking sex addict, and won't contribute to dementia. It's got its downsides in terms of sleep architecture, but it's better than lying awake for hours. Everyone's mileage will vary, especially for a couple of weeks, but as a regular part of my life, it seems like the best option for me.

So another vote for Eszopi/Zopiclone.

I find the resulting "quality" of sleep is also superior to anything else as well. It should be the first thing tried imo, at a half dose, and BE READY to sleep, don't expect it to hit you in the head like a hammer for hours. You need to let it push you over the cliff into natural sleep. Not that it's weak, it's just a short period of intense sleepiness.

Even "Valarian Root", as "natural" as it is, is trash by comparison with some nasty side effects, especially with repeated use.
 
The medical literature is pretty clear that the best treatment for chronic insomnia is cognitive behavioral therapy. It blows away any drugs. Of course, this is a special circumstance, but it's something we should always keep in mind when discussing sleep.

Trazodone is very much a YMMV drug. Some people take it at a dose prescribed for sleep and feel very little. Others feel drugged immediately with a hangover lasting well into the next day. It can cause swelling in the nasal passage, so that you can't breathe through your nose, which can interfere with sleep. Others have vivid nightmares -- I can only imagine mixing Tren dreams with trazodone nightmares. Finally, it can cause priapism in rare instances, so you gotta go to the ER with a raging boner or risk permanent wang damage. (Treatment often involves needles.)

The bad news about medical therapies is that there are very few that work over the long term, and they all have really shitty side effects. The good news is, there's a ton of them that will probably be effective and safe(ish) over the duration of a tren cycle.

The most obvious option is diphenhydramine (Benadryl in the US). It's an anti-histamine that causes drowsiness in most people. If you take too much, there's a paradoxical reversal that causes hyperactivity and something that feels like whole-body restless legs. Still, it's readily available and very cheap. Over the course of a few weeks, you'll build some tolerance but not a ton, and you'll avoid the main negative side effect of long-term use, which is dementia. It can cause a sleep hangover into the next day, so try to find the minimum effective dose, starting with a single 25 mg tablet and working up in half-tablet increments.

Along with trazodone, there are a few anti-depressants that can be taken at a lower dose to aid sleep. These are mirtazapine, nortriptyline, and amitriptyline. As far as evidence goes, another cyclic antidepressant has the best evidence as a sleep drug, which is doxepin. Trazodone remains more popular as a sleep drug (I don't know why), but the others have been used with success. My two cents: even though the dosing is lower, I would be reluctant to take anything likely to alter affect while already taking tren. I'd also be reluctant to hop on and off such medications as you cycle. If you're going to try anything, ask for doxepin. But the experiment hasn't been done and there's no data, so who the hell knows?

There's a forest of benzodiazepines, and short-term use may obviate the rapid tolerance problem. However, I'd stay away pretty much entirely. The potential for addiction is real, and the *common* side-effects include memory loss and atypical behavior. That's not something I want to stack with tren.

The non-benzo hypnotics are similar but vary pretty widely. Zolpidem (Ambien in the US) is highly effective, but builds up tolerance quickly and is associated with the worst side-effect profile. Along with the side effects of the benzos, it also includes complex somnolence... hardcore sleep walking that can have you cooking food, having sex, or even gambling while being blacked out. Of this bunch, there is only one drug that has been studied for safety and efficacy over a long term period (six months), and that is eszopiclone (Lunesta in the US). It has a milder side effect profile, but also provides milder sedation. Still, if one is going to try a hypnotic sleep aid, starting here is the move. Again -- take as little as possible and titrate up until you find a dose that works.

There's a zoo of off-label medicines that are prescribed for sleep. There's a handful of anti-psychotics (quetiapine, risperidone) but they have a heavy side-effect burden; I would try these as a last resort. Orexin (Belsomra) exists but sucks ass, empirically. Clonidine is an interesting one, in that it has the effect of lowering blood pressure, which most of us could use, but also causes muscular weakness and a dangerous dependence. Gabapentin and pregabalin are both effective at promoting sleep, especially if you have restless legs. Unfortunately, they're also being sought out as recreational drugs now, so you may have trouble finding a doctor who wants to write them. Hydroxyzine is an old anti-histamine that works for some people; sort of like Benadryl's older brother. Worth trying for just a few weeks if that's what is available.

I have sleep problems and when all of the sleep hygiene and cognitive behavioral therapy tools fail, I take eszopiclone (Lunesta). The medical literature considers it safe and effective for long-term use, doesn't make a sleepwalking sex addict, and won't contribute to dementia. It's got its downsides in terms of sleep architecture, but it's better than lying awake for hours. Everyone's mileage will vary, especially for a couple of weeks, but as a regular part of my life, it seems like the best option for me.
Really appreciate the expansive response as this was just what I was looking for. Under normal circumstances my sleep is just fine, but Tren is not a normal circumstance so I am just trying to find a solution to get me through my cycle reasonably rested. I will try to remember to update this thread with results after I start blasting again (this coming Friday).

Now time to do some reading on some of the compounds you have mentioned.
 
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