Source QC and C of A (do you have one?)

[readalot]

Also that post you referenced just had purity testing on it. Not any of these "organic impurities and residual solvents" which you weirdly say never came out of your mouth while replying to a post where I quoted you saying exactly that.

Jano already does these tests. I'm happy to send the same samples to both Axel Labs and Jano if Axel Labs is offering a competitive service. Would be nice to get similar numbers from two independent labs.

So go back up and take a look at post 87 again. What is actually shared in that C of A?

Residual solvents via USP <467> option 1? Check. Yes that includes Class 2 and 3.

Organic impurities along with TC? Check. There is an organic impurity labeled unknown which seems silly. I'll spot you that.

Did you actually take the time to read all three pages?

Endotoxins? Check

Sub visible particles? Check

Heavy metals and elemental impurities? Check.

This isn't about checking accuracy of Jano's HPLC methods. It's about expanding the scope of third party testing performed by sources. What could QSC do? What was I asking QSC to do?

The same thing @Axle Labs graciously agreed to do....work with me and apparently Jano (as he seems to be the only outfit on here that is capable of such work) and send in some samples for additional testing as I summarized in detail above. Take a look at the draft. Feedback? What are you not getting? What am I not explaining clearly?

I am not asking QSC to do the testing in house. Nor would anyone trust that (nor should they). I posted the Pharma C of A to show the scope of actual testing done on Pharma TC by the manufacturer. Can we send in a sample of that as part of iterative exercise to establish expanded testing at Jano? Sure we could.

Let me know where the communication is breaking down here. I know people can get wires crossed online sometimes.

 

[readalot]

Appreciate the effort, readalot, and I put in an order with Axle only because of his willingness to participate. I’ll only be supporting vendors willing to participate in readalot’s efforts in furthering harm reduction and education, and I’m guessing there’s a silent group of us here that will do the same.

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts Brother. I didn't think any of this would be quite so controversial, but as you suggest hard to decouple the vocal few from the silent many if the silent don't speak up.

 

[lift4lyfe]

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts Brother. I didn't think any of this would be quite so controversial, but as you suggest hard to decouple the vocal few from the silent many if the silent don't speak up.

I think they’re just having some fun with you

 

[readalot]

I think they’re just having some fun with you

They definitely seem to be having fun. All good, I have a thick skull. Make sure those hands are gloved.

 

[readalot]

Dude, are u still here? Still stuck on the same bullshit? Working on an idea? Just test the fucking thing yourself or stfu u skinny fuckin. Desk dork who prob just curls his 15lb dumbbells and reads on the internet instead of having a real life and having a set of balls. Shoot 5g of test a week then come back and talk to us real men. Fucking dweeb

My favorite one so far. Thanks Mr. pistonpump. As a true meso veteran it would seem you could take a few minutes on here and easily disprove your hunch quite easily. Anyway thanks for the laugh.

 

[AlexDavis43]

It's about expanding the scope of third party testing performed by sources.

It would work better with blind customer testing. Figure out how make it affordable or get reimbursed. But you do the blind testing first and post results here. To prove it's a cause for concern.

 

[readalot]

It would work better with blind customer testing. Figure out how make it affordable or get reimbursed. But you do the blind testing first and post results here. To prove it's a cause for concern.

Good point but kinda hard to blind test (product and customer) when I am only one sending in samples for these tests for this project. Blinding can happen initially if I find a truly blind lab not on Meso. If/when volume picks up then blinding has a more realistic chance with Jano.

Also a sticking point: I don't use UGL. Hence trying to work with someone who does have UGL products...source(s).

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[lift4lyfe]

My favorite one so far. Thanks Mr. pistonpump. As a true meso veteran it would seem you could take a few minutes on here and easily disprove your hunch quite easily. Anyway thanks for the laugh.

 

[AlexDavis43]

Good point but kinda hard to blind test (product and customer) when I am only one sending in samples for these tests for this project. Blinding can happen initially if I find a truly blind lab not on Meso. If/when volume picks up then blinding has a more realistic chance with Jano.

Also a sticking point: I don't use UGL. Hence trying to work with someone who does have UGL products...source(s).

Thanks for your thoughts.

It starts with you. That's what people here are saying. No one cares to send samples for that level of testing. Not even you have done it yet. Right?

 

[readalot]

Not even you have done it yet. Right?

Absolutely correct.

My offer stands to financially contribute with one or more sources to help validate this enhanced third party testing.

Obviously asking individuals to do this is a stretch. That's why I have only approached sources.

You are absolutely right that I could do this on my own with my Pharma or compounded products. That would also be interesting if compounded products came back with high inpurity levels. Just seems low hanging fruit to start with 96% or 98% raw not a 99.9% raw in finished product.

 

[Toaster]

Absolutely correct.

My offer stands to financially contribute with one or more sources to help validate this enhanced third party testing.

Obviously asking individuals to do this is a stretch. That's why I have only approached sources.

You are absolutely right that I could do this on my own with my Pharma or compounded products. That would also be interesting if compounded products came back with high inpurity levels. Just seems low hanging fruit to start with 96% or 98% raw not a 99.9% raw in finished product.

You're making this hopelessly complicated. Why?

Don't "financially contribute". If you're invested enough to spend this much time posting about it and you're only willing to throw in a few bucks with other people, what does that say? It just makes it appear as if all you want to do is attempt to seem like you're knowledgeable about this topic of analytical chemistry. As you may have noticed, no one is impressed and.just about no one cares.

You seem to be unable to pick a couple tests that would be possible to perform for what are essentially UGL testing labs. You aren't getting a full COA like you posted. Use your supposed knowledge of analytical chemistry to pick the tests that would be easiest for the UGL testing lab to perform given the equipment, columns, chemicals, etc they should have on hand. Your knowledge should allow you to come up with an effective starting point, right?

If you're knowledgeable and concerned.

1. Pay for the testing
2. You don't have access to UGL products, so you will have someone else send a sample at your expense.
3. Clearly define the test(s) you want to perform.
4. Wait for results.

Why can't you do those 4 steps? You don't need to complicate it further. As mentioned, if you find something in your testing you will gain more interest. That will also give you the necessary data to effectively push for some of the additional tests you would like to see done.

You're trying to go from 0-100 on in area that doesn't currently exist in the UGL world. Settle for going from 0-20 on the first attempt. Then it will naturally progress from there if you uncover something notable.

Or you know...keep aimlessly spamming the forum

 

[readalot]

You're making this hopelessly complicated. Why?

Don't "financially contribute". If you're invested enough to spend this much time posting about it and you're only willing to throw in a few bucks with other people, what does that say? It just makes it appear as if all you want to do is attempt to seem like you're knowledgeable about this topic of analytical chemistry. As you may have noticed, no one is impressed and.just about no one cares.

You seem to be unable to pick a couple tests that would be possible to perform for what are essentially UGL testing labs. You aren't getting a full COA like you posted. Use your supposed knowledge of analytical chemistry to pick the tests that would be easiest for the UGL testing lab to perform given the equipment, columns, chemicals, etc they should have on hand. Your knowledge should allow you to come up with an effective starting point, right?

If you're knowledgeable and concerned.

1. Pay for the testing
2. You don't have access to UGL products, so you will have someone else send a sample at your expense.
3. Clearly define the test(s) you want to perform.
4. Wait for results.

Why can't you do those 4 steps? You don't need to complicate it further. As mentioned, if you find something in your testing you will gain more interest. That will also give you the necessary data to effectively push for some of the additional tests you would like to see done.

You're trying to go from 0-100 on in area that doesn't currently exist in the UGL world. Settle for going from 0-20 on the first attempt. Then it will naturally progress from there if you uncover something notable.

Or you know...keep aimlessly spamming the forum

Thanks for your feedback.


Appears we have gone from 0 to something depending on what @Axle Labs ordered.

Fyi...

MESO-Rx Sponsor - Axle Labs - US Domestic

Testing Results. More compounds have been sent off as well. Test-E (500mg/ml) -> 502.73mg/ml Injectable Superdrol (40mg/ml) -> 38.8 mg/ml Tren-E (400mg/ml) -> 453.37mg/ml Anavar (50mg) -> 45.20mg (Will increase active raws by 10%) I'm sending off some stuff for testing also. Is the $200...

thinksteroids.com

 

[Toaster]

Thanks for your feedback.


Appears we have gone from 0 to something depending on what @Axle Labs ordered.

Fyi...

MESO-Rx Sponsor - Axle Labs - US Domestic

Testing Results. More compounds have been sent off as well. Test-E (500mg/ml) -> 502.73mg/ml Injectable Superdrol (40mg/ml) -> 38.8 mg/ml Tren-E (400mg/ml) -> 453.37mg/ml Anavar (50mg) -> 45.20mg (Will increase active raws by 10%) I'm sending off some stuff for testing also. Is the $200...

thinksteroids.com

Great, but you don't strike me as a guy who will be satisfied by whatever they're doing unless you provided the specifics.

I could be wrong, good luck.

 

[readalot]

Great, but you don't strike me as a guy who will be satisfied by whatever they're doing unless you provided the specifics.

I could be wrong, good luck.

Reviewing your proposal there are many great points there.

#1 seems to be the critical one based on the consensus of vocal members here.

#2 confirms that my approach in contacting sources is sound but I need to do this one on one with them rather than getting the fan bases all riled up here. A collaborative approach does not appear fruitful at the moment.

#3 Jano seems to be the only analytical outfit in the UGL space who can get API ID and purity correct so he would be really only choice to submit samples for LCMS/GCMS screens plus ICP. Healthy competition is desperately needed in this space.

1. Pay for the testing
2. You don't have access to UGL products, so you will have someone else send a sample at your expense.
3. Clearly define the test(s) you want to perform.
4. Wait for results.

I appreciate your time.

 

[janoshik]

Question for you @janoshik since this type of analysis may greatly increase routine testing scope for your business ...see post 87 above.

In the context of document attached (stability vs non-stability indicating methods) and C of A in post 87, would your HPLC-DAD setup be able to resolve the API from the other organic impurities (side products, degradation products) listed? I would imagine you'd have to so some exploratory work for each AAS product to ensure HPLC properly resolving organic impurities from API?

Yes, but nobody is going to pay for the amount of additional work needed for that in my experience. I've had such orders roughly once per two years.

GCMS can do it so easily no additional settings from the routine screening method are necessary.

 

[janoshik]

Residual solvents (class 2 and 3 from USP) should be easy with GCMS/LCMS.

LCMS is not suitable for residual solvents, GCMS is, but it's not about the GCMS part only - you need a proper sample introduction system for highly volatile substances such as residual solvents.

This sample introduction system would be vastly different from the one used to introduce high boiling point, low volatility compounds such as anabolic steroids and you can't really have optimal performance with both, so it's not really that simple.

For us to become routinely capable of such testing we'd have to make investments north of 50k$ and have to require substantially higher amount of sample than we need for the purity testing.

My suggestion would be to jury-rig such test with a moisture analysis to determine whether there is even need for such testing.

No residual solvent testing laboratory is going to invest tens of thousands into paperwork to handle scheduled substances and I am not going to invest the same for a test 5 people end up ordering twice. Unfortunate, but it is how it is.

 

[janoshik]

Seems like these questions also get into how you assess raw purity and the result you share. You must have some confidence your HPLC method is a stability indicating method for each raw you analyze (no co-elution, peak overlap, etc). How do you define purity in the raw AAS test you offer?

amount of detected compound compared to the standard / weighted amount of the sample

Of course, proper separation with orthogonal confirmation is a must.

It should be noticed the usual way the Chinese QA/QC places, or MZ Biolabs take is to calculate purity from peak area %, which is called area normalization and it is suitable only in very specific scenarios and in general is not a proper way to do it. It's cheap, fast and allows those places to be good results pill mill, but the proper way is to calculate purity from
amount of detected compound compared to the standard / weighted amount of the sample.

 

[Scruf]

My bad @Scruf ....forgot to copy you. See post 87 above for some of the latest science I made up.

Your conspiracy theories are only rivaled by a true Qanon follower. Your theory about contaminates is completely fabricated. Those of us that have been around long enough to actually test US produced pharmaceuticals know the tests come with sub 100% purity, sub 95% purity even.

I recently tested Omnitrope that I purchased with a prescription here in the USA and it was less pure than QSCs HGH. You need to stop creating questions and theories that are complete nonsense. The value of the current testing and Vendor vetting we do here is the gold standard for the entire TRT, HRT and Ped using community. The risk you present to this forum is significant. New comers could read your concepts and believe they are valid, that Jano is corrupt, that 98% pure isn’t good enough and that Statins are never the answer. So I implore you, as a guy that once really believed in you, to get off this forum. Go back to following the Qanon Shamin, I hear he gets out of jail in a few years.

 

[readalot]

New comers could read your concepts and believe they are valid, that Jano is corrupt, that 98% pure isn’t good enough and that Statins are never the answer.

I'll skip your fallacious QAnon trainwreck and get straight to the point.

Simple challenge...

For any one of the 3 erroneous accusations above show me where in any of my posts there are claims (the weasel word you used was "concepts" ) from me that:

1. 98% pure isn't good enough

2. Jano is corrupt (@janoshik CC'ing him here given the extraordinary accusation of defamation you have made here)

3. Statins are never the answer

Should be a simple task. I'll happily leave the forum (gone immediately) should you provide evidence from my posts that supports any or all of these accusations. Since there are a few folks who have already made the suggestion for me to leave the forum or be banned, I am sure you can get some help on the research.

If you can't provide this evidence then what should you conclude? What errors of logic and analysis did you make to get to the 3 accusations above?

In the old days this would be like one of those retirement matches in pro wrestling. But I won't even ask you to leave if you are proven wrong (holding you to the same standard as myself if you are proven right). I just feel really bad for you.

Take care.

 

[Scruf]

I'll skip your fallacious QAnon trainwreck and get straight to the point.

Simple challenge...

For any one of the 3 erroneous accusations above show me where in any of my posts there are claims (the weasel word you used was "concepts" ) from me that:

1. 98% pure isn't good enough

2. Jano is corrupt (@janoshik CC'ing him here given the extraordinary accusation of defamation you have made here)

3. Statins are never the answer

Should be a simple task. I'll happily leave the forum (gone immediately) should you provide evidence from my posts that supports any or all of these accusations. Since there are a few folks who have already made the suggestion for me to leave the forum or be banned, I am sure you can get some help on the research.

If you can't provide this evidence then what should you conclude? What errors of logic and analysis did you make to get to the 3 accusations above?

In the old days this would be like one of those retirement matches in pro wrestling. But I won't even ask you to leave if you are proven wrong (holding you to the same standard as myself if you are proven right). I just feel really bad for you.

Take care.

You are not worth my time.