Suboxone and Test levels

[Seve]

I am curious if there are any recovering opiate addict, bodybuilders out there who are on Suboxone? I have been on the medication for quite some time ,and it , with a few others things, weightlifting being one of them . Has saved my life.
A few years back, before any AAS my primary care physician, not the Suboxone doctor wanted to check my test levels because of the medication. He said it could drastically lower my testosterone. Results came back and they were "fine" according to him. Unfortunately blood work is something I have not been doing, but plan on. I guess I am asking a question and putting this out there to outher BB. Why would this medication (Suboxone) which is still a partial opiate have an effect on test levels, and does anyone have any experience with this.

 

[boston597]

I take sebutex same thing yeah I'm a recovering heroin addict 9 yrs sober.its an amazing feeling to know you beat heroin.cuz most either Die or stay shooting then die..but I'm currently on cycle fuck I been going g for a while.idk about my test levals cuz I haven't done bloods.I have strength well being SIZE .so I'm am absolutely positively sure sebutex & suboxone cuz I have been on cycle with subz.are not effecting my cycle imo

 

[MANWHORE]

I just got one guy off Roxies with Kratom
and another one off all his Suboxone with Kratom..

I couldn't get to the one guy for 2-3 days with Kratom
about 2 weeks ago and he didn't take anything..
I asked how he felt and he said " Not bad, I just really didn't
have much motivation to do much"

He is not a very motivated guy to begin with..
just thought I would add that..

Drop to Kratom then drop everything.. it's a good plan

M

 

[element00]

I am curious if there are any recovering opiate addict, bodybuilders out there who are on Suboxone? I have been on the medication for quite some time ,and it , with a few others things, weightlifting being one of them . Has saved my life.
A few years back, before any AAS my primary care physician, not the Suboxone doctor wanted to check my test levels because of the medication. He said it could drastically lower my testosterone. Results came back and they were "fine" according to him. Unfortunately blood work is something I have not been doing, but plan on. I guess I am asking a question and putting this out there to outher BB. Why would this medication (Suboxone) which is still a partial opiate have an effect on test levels, and does anyone have any experience with this.

It's a good question man. Obviously the impacts of opioids are well known and there is a lot on the Internet on suboxone and test levels. Interestingly most on sub are not using AAS so talk of TRT seems common and there seems a view that if you increase your test levels, you feel better and can begin a suboxone reduction. You need to be mindful that if your test levels are very high and you're feeling bulletproof, you still need to make informed decisions about your other meds. I've been looking at some of the risk factors with pct and risk of relapse given hormone levels are all fucked up and would recommend caution taking ill informed advice to jump off without having all your shit in order. Sure I'm not saying anything you don't know, just take it easy

 

[Misterboots]

I was addicted to oxys and then heroin for like 7 years, spent 20k on rehabs and 2 years fighting the h devil but kept relapsing, before opiate replacement helped me save my life. This tread caught my attention because, I am on a low dose of methadone (in beginning was at 110 mg a day), and have been working with Dr. Hulinsky who is smart and thorough and he is starting to think the methadone is causing my low t. Issue is I have been on TRT for 10 years and also that I won't be coming off methadone in the near future. Previous docs thought my depressed t was due to pit tumor (microadenoma-small) and good ol Dr. H said "that might just be a red herring that thru everyone off. Well, I did a lot of research of others experiences and methadone is quite suppressive. Suboxone can be too but that it is less likely to suppress t levels as it is a partial agonist. Man, the damage that H does, the damage that H does....f'n baffling...should have known that 'Sunshine in a bag' was really 'Candy Coated Hell.' and nothing to fuck with. A good endocrinologist should be able to help sort thru this, and I hope more studies are done on the correlation between opiate medications and the effect they have on the endocrine system. I have to see Dr. H, in June and he has his eye on things because I have reduced my methadone dose recently and he thinks it may change my blood levels and we might be able to lower my androgel. Thinking back, over the years, as my methadone levels went down, my Androgel level went down too. I am really curious about this kraton. Can you detox from methadone on it, bet it would be f'n hell. Still curious! Will have my eyes on this thread, as content definitely is interesting!!! Coming off opiate replacement would be too dangerous for me, I have a feeling I am a lifer. You never know though, and I hope diet and exercise helps heal my brain and the damaged receptors over time and maybe one day...who knows

 

[element00]

I was addicted to oxys and then heroin for like 7 years, spent 20k on rehabs and 2 years fighting the h devil but kept relapsing, before opiate replacement helped me save my life. This tread caught my attention because, I am on a low dose of methadone (in beginning was at 110 mg a day), and have been working with Dr. Hulinsky who is smart and thorough and he is starting to think the methadone is causing my low t. Issue is I have been on TRT for 10 years and also that I won't be coming off methadone in the near future. Previous docs thought my depressed t was due to pit tumor (microadenoma-small) and good ol Dr. H said "that might just be a red herring that thru everyone off. Well, I did a lot of research of others experiences and methadone is quite suppressive. Suboxone can be too but that it is less likely to suppress t levels as it is a partial agonist. Man, the damage that H does, the damage that H does....f'n baffling...should have known that 'Sunshine in a bag' was really 'Candy Coated Hell.' and nothing to fuck with. A good endocrinologist should be able to help sort thru this, and I hope more studies are done on the correlation between opiate medications and the effect they have on the endocrine system. I have to see Dr. H, in June and he has his eye on things because I have reduced my methadone dose recently and he thinks it may change my blood levels and we might be able to lower my androgel. Thinking back, over the years, as my methadone levels went down, my Androgel level went down too. I am really curious about this kraton. Can you detox from methadone on it, bet it would be f'n hell. Still curious! Will have my eyes on this thread, as content definitely is interesting!!! Coming off opiate replacement would be too dangerous for me, I have a feeling I am a lifer. You never know though, and I hope diet and exercise helps heal my brain and the damaged receptors over time and maybe one day...who knows

Interesting shit man. When you say reducing methadone also meant trt reduction, do you mean you were able to reduce your trt dose with less methadone on board? Agree with the lesser impact of a partial agonist, but it's that binding to the mu opioid receptor that will have an impact that would be different for individuals. It makes me wonder who is doing work looking at the dose relationship.
Also, be careful with kratom. Some seem to love it, but I've seen it fuck guys up to. Go safe man

 

[Docd187123]

Plasma testosterone and sexual function in men receiving buprenorphine maintenance for opioid dependence.
Bliesener N, et al. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005.
Show full citation
Abstract
High-dose methadone is well known to cause testosterone deficiency and sexual dysfunction in opioid-dependent men. Buprenorphine is a new drug for the pharmacotherapy of opioid dependence. Its influence on the gonadal axis has not been investigated to date. We therefore assayed testosterone, free testosterone, estradiol, SHBG, LH, FSH, and prolactin in 17 men treated with buprenorphine. Thirty-seven men treated with high-dose methadone and 51 healthy blood donors served as controls. Sexual function and depression were assessed using a self-rating sexual function questionnaire and the Beck Depression Inventory. Patients treated with buprenorphine had a significantly higher testosterone level [5.1 +/- 1.2 ng/ml (17.7 +/- 4.2 nmol/liter) vs. 2.8 +/- 1.2 ng/ml (9.7 +/- 4.2 nmol/liter); P < 0.0001] and a significantly lower frequency of sexual dysfunction (P < 0.0001) compared with patients treated with methadone. The testosterone level of buprenorphine-treated patients did not differ from that of healthy controls. In conclusion, we demonstrated for the first time that buprenorphine, in contrast with high-dose methadone, seems not to suppress plasma testosterone in heroin-addicted men. To this effect, buprenorphine was less frequently related to sexual side effects. Buprenorphine might therefore be favored in the treatment of opioid dependence to prevent patients from the clinical consequences of methadone-induced hypogonadism.

PMID
15483091 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[TheNeWkID]

I'm an ex needle head too. I am on subutex myself. I felt not alone to see all you guys on here admitting your past life (hopefully past). It has been proven time and time again that opiate agonists have a direct effect on low T levels. Without giving blood to prove it I can give you a little at home test to prove it. If you are on a semi hi dosage. 8-16 mg a day and you drop off to a small dosage for 3 days you will notice that you can bust a nut if the wind blows on you. Where I can't give you the medical reasoning for this we can all come to the conclusion that it has a direct correlation with Testosterone. I have found that these little subutex are a hard habit to shake. I have been off dope for years. Sadly I am now hooked on the subutex. I will say that my self induced trt has helped me cut down on dosage though.

 

[MANWHORE]

Methadone is worse thAn dope ..

I actually started dope to get off methadone ..

my life is so much better being off both and also alcohol ...

 

[TheNeWkID]

Agreed manwhore. I am thinking about doing an opiate taper for a few weeks. Then switching to tramadol to get off the suboxone

 

[Misterboots]

@element00 - Exactly, I got on methadone in 2004 via a clinic as my last option....I don't think I would still be here if I didn't....maybe in jail if I were lucky, otherwise probably dead. I understand where MW is coming from saying Methadone is worst than heroin, as it is way worst to come off of but I have zero intention of coming off and if it means heroin for life or methadone I think I have been far more successful on methadone. Anyway, my maintenance dose back in 2004 was 110 mgs which I was on for years and then started to taper....mg by mg over several years. I am now able to get thru the day with 30, with no w/d symptoms. Dose cut more than in half. I can't recall my starting androgel dose and I started Trt around 2002/2003 when I was still using h. I think it was like 8 or 10 pumps, was along time ago and that was the 1%. I am now on the the new 2.whatever % androgel and get by on 3 pumps and doc wants me to try 2 pumps before next lab work to see where we are at. I am gonna give it a shot, but to be honest feel good at three pumps and have everything dialed and and ain't too siked about decreasing. I am curious to see my bloods though, and doc is too, so plan to do a decrease a week before bloodwork is submitted. That should be enough time that my t levels will adjust to new decreased dose of 2 pumps. I don't think I can go any lower on methadone. Its not as easy to decrease with tabs for pain mgmt. as it was on liquid in a clinic. The methadone does do a good job with pain too. I have some pretty bad injurys from an accident years ago-auto. Will try to report back after I get labs, I think my next doc apt in june with endo.

 

[element00]

110 down to 30, that's some good work right there man. I'm not too familiar with the gel, but I'd be interested to hear how you get on with the blood work. Im going to have a look and see what I can find about the dose relationship between opiates and test levels. Good luck

 

[element00]

@Misterboots @Seve theres a social group here for guys with similar experiences. It's pretty quiet, but a good group of guys who wouldn't mind being hit up if others need to reach out

 

[boston597]

Omg methadone is the devil in pill/liquid form.I'm a very strong willed person obviously if u know my history , yet it seems I can't get past 1 sub a day.nor am I trying to.My life as fucked up as it may be and it is.that 1 or at times 1/2 a sub mentally physically is my peace.its my way to keep dope out my veins money in my bank and pocket. My wife & kids in the house and not in a shelter or under a bridge.A job that pays me a shit load of money,I'm the MF that needs it I guess I will get off these some day but its a security blanket & I'm fine with it.I never NEVER THINK ABOUT HEROIN oxys NUTHING but working , making money, family and heath.I don't even take my pain pills after surgery no matter how much pain I'm in and I'm in pain.I stop my subz 3 days b4 surgery.and start when the sides begin..

 

[xgunx]

Hi my name is xgunx i was addicted to everything. It used to take 80mg methadone and 160mg oxy or roxy in my arm to get me out of bed in the mornings.

 

[MANWHORE]

Vodka is the devil for me..
but more like a hot sexy female devil that
keeps flashing me her titties and beaver whenever I see her..

M

 

[Misterboots]

@Boston59 I have had the exact same experience with opiate replacement, I have my own home, paid for my car in cash, have savings, a hobbie I love, I go to the gym everyday, I eat healthy, I don't ever miss doctors appointments and take their advice seriously, and I am reliable and care about others. I used to think everybody else was missing out, and my heroin habit was the greatest thing until I ran out of money. It came time that I would have to steal or do crazy shit to keep my habit up, and I was willing to rob from my personal savings and trade in for the drug, but was not willing to take from someone I loved, a stranger, or even some big company even if it be a scummy one. I have always hated thieves, and drew the line and sought help. The problem was my brain was too damaged....I kinda wonder if my endocrine issues made getting clean/detoxin/PAWS worst cause I had knew some guys that could just kick it where I just couldn't ever just stop. Anyway, I have thought about switching to suboxone but am too scared. The doctors don't have much empathy, and if things don't go with the switch, I could end up relapsing or loosing my methadone prescriber. Then there is the pain thing....subs don't help much for pain, or do they? I have always wanted to try subutex without the naltrexone so I don't have to put myself into withdrawal to switch or worry about the naltrexone putting me into rapid withdrawal pulling all the opiates out of me. Scary. With the subutex, I could just see if I can get thru a day. I work a professional job, and need to be comfortable enough to function. I am dialed in on my trt/hrt protocol which took over a year with Dr hulinsky and everything can be effected. I am very sensitive to opiate withdrawal, very sensitive to estrogen too. I am prescribed 1 1/2 tabs of aromasin a day, cutting em sucks, but I just hate feeling like shit. It is tormenting. I know my program works, and I would flush a bundle if I found one, have money in my pocket, and know if I do good to my body, my body makes me feel good. H is out of the equation. Take away Methadone, man that thought is dangerous. Benefits for me far outway the negatives which I acknowledge and am aware of. Especially with all the dental work I have had!

@element00 - let me know what you come up with. There is definitely a link here, that some research would be great to see. Right now even doing qualitative research...(phenomenological research) via surveys would be a good idea. Not sure if the docs think it is a hokey idea. There is need and a phenomenon that should certainly be looked into. Many addicts probably have low t and don't know. Curious to what you find.

 

[TheNeWkID]

misterboots. I guarantee that if you started on a high subutex dose you would make the move just fine. My buddy drives to metha clinic everyday. It's 1.5 hrs. They can give you up to 4 subutex a day. At that dosage it is more for pain than it is rehab. You will be faded. Trust me

 

[Misterboots]

Agreed manwhore. I am thinking about doing an opiate taper for a few weeks. Then switching to tramadol to get off the suboxone

Definitely wish ya luck, but be careful. I have seen so many guys wreck there lives over the past 10 years when transitioning from replacement therapy. Especially when they are coming off because of stigma...ie. family member giving em shit. How long does the withdrawals from subs last. I have never heard of anyone going to detox from subs, and used to work in a rehab facility. You would think a methadone detox might help get you thru the rough, if you have insurance or a very progressive doctor. Tramadol can be a very dangerous medication if abused. Don't think that is your intention, but just wanted to mention that taking excess can cause seizures and I have seen it more than once. Keep us posted. I still gotta read on Kratom, for "shits and giggles". Anyway....keep on keepin on, brah! Misterboots
(lol....always wanted to type that on here...brah....never talk like that but used to hear kids on phish tour say it and brings back memories of festivals...'brah, got a buck to help get a kid out of jail'.... Heady gooballs!!!!! Good memorys...especially pre opiates when everything was pure enjoyment....the music...the people....then it slowly becomes the drug first. so glad to be clean

 

[Nitrust]

My buddy is a recovering opiate addict mainly vicodin, and he uses Kratom daily