Talk me into NPP

[meteldeth]

All things equal (training, rest, calories)

How many Primo/Test cycles is enough to put on some mass comparable to NPP? I keep wanting to run an NPP/Test/Primo cycle, but man I don't wanna f*ck up my health long term if Primo will get me there eventually.

Do the NPP gains stick around after cycle enough to warrant the risks?



Heart hypertrophy

Nandrolone administration with or without strenuous exercise increases cardiac fatal genes overexpression, calcium/calmodulin-dependent protein kinaseiiδ, and monoamine oxidase activities and enhances blood pressure in adult wistar rats - PubMed

Androgens and cardiovascular disease - PubMed

Cardiovascular effects of androgenic-anabolic steroids - PubMed

Cardiac remodeling

Nandrolone decanoate determines cardiac remodelling and injury by an imbalance in cardiac inflammatory cytokines and ACE activity, blunting of the Bezold-Jarisch reflex, resulting in the development of hypertension - PubMed

Nandrolone and resistance training induce heart remodeling: role of fetal genes and implications for cardiac pathophysiology - PubMed

Neurotoxicity

Lipid peroxidation and apoptotic response in rat brain areas induced by long-term administration of nandrolone: the mutual crosstalk between ROS and NF-kB - PubMed

Nandrolone administration abolishes hippocampal fEPSP-PS potentiation and passive avoidance learning of adolescent male rats - PubMed

Permanently influences the expression of serotonergic and noradrenergic neurotransmission

Chronic nandrolone decanoate exposure during adolescence affects emotional behavior and monoaminergic neurotransmission in adulthood - PubMed

Impairs memory

Nandrolone decanoate administration elevates hippocampal prodynorphin mRNA expression and impairs Morris water maze performance in male rats - PubMed

Anxiety

The opposite effects of nandrolone decanoate and exercise on anxiety levels in rats may involve alterations in hippocampal parvalbumin-positive interneurons - PubMed

Affects the control of emotional behavior such as depression, aggression, and reward.

Anabolic-androgenic steroids affect the content of substance P and substance P(1-7) in the rat brain - PubMed

Single dose is enough to alter brain activity

Nandrolone decanoate enhances hypothalamic biogenic amines in rats - PubMed

Anabolic steroids induce cardiac renin-angiotensin system and impair the beneficial effects of aerobic training in rats - PubMed

Supraphysiological doses of nandrolone exacerbated the cardiac hypertrophy in exercise-trained rats. Exercise training associated with nandrolone induces maladaptive remodeling and further deterioration in cardiac performance. Exercise training associated with nandrolone causes loss of the beneficial effects in left ventricular function induced by exercising. These results suggest that aerobic exercise plus nandrolone increases cardiac collagen content associated with activation of the local renin-angiotensin system. This demonstrates that nandrolone is implicated in maladaptive ventricular remodeling leading to left ventricular hypertrophy. This effect is absent in testosterone.

Chronic treatment with anabolic steroids induces ventricular repolarization disturbances: cellular, ionic and molecular mechanism - PubMed

The illicit use of supraphysiological doses of nandrolone has been suggested as a cause of arrhythmia in athletes... Our results strongly suggest that supraphysiological doses of nandrolone induce morphological remodeling in both ventricles. However, the electrical remodeling was mainly observed in the left ventricle. This study suggests that nandrolone is also implicated in left ventricular arrhythmia as well as myocardial hypertrophy

Nephrotoxicity in rabbits after long-term nandrolone decanoate administration - PubMed

Among the various side effects of supra-physiological dose of anabolic androgenic steroids that are described, renal toxicity remains the least evaluated. The present study provides evidence that long-term administration of nandrolone decanoate could lead to alterations of renal function and structure... In conclusion, nephrotoxicity of nandrolone decanoate remains a multi-factorial, partly irreversible effect that involves augmented tissue oxidative status. This study suggests that nandrolone is implicated in renal toxicity

The risk of life-threatening ventricular arrhythmias in presence of high-intensity endurance exercise along with chronic administration of nandrolone decanoate - PubMed

Nandrolone plus severe exercise increases the risk of VF that cannot be explained only by the changes in redox system. The intensification of cardiac hypertrophy and prolongation of JT interval may be a part of involved mechanisms. Another study that suggests that nandrolone is implicated in both myocardial hypertrophy and ventricular fibrillation

Cardiopulmonary reflex, cardiac cytokines, and nandrolone decanoate: response to resistance training in rats - PubMed

The association of nandrolone with resistance training increased myocyte hypertrophy, deposition of matrix type I collagen, TNF-α and ACEA; decreased IL-10, and impairment in the BJR were observed in ND EXERC compared with CONT and EXERC. Nandrolone is associated with alterations in cardiac structure and function as a result of the development of pathological cardiac hypertrophy (cardiac cytokine imbalance, elevation of ACEA) and cardiac injury, even when combined with resistance training. Yet another article suggesting nandrolone’s role in cardiomyopathy

The impact of nandrolone decanoate on the central nervous system - PubMed

According to Magnusson K. et al, nandrolone administered male rats displayed memory function impairment, possibly via dynorphinergic mechanisms in the hippocampus. The hippocampus is a brain region associated with cognitive function since the limbic brain is linked to several types of learning and memory functions. This region displays a relatively high density of androgen receptors in rats, which suggests a relationship between the androgen receptor and cognitive function. In animal models, nandrolone has been implicated in memory loss

The effect of nandrolone on HPAA has been shown in some studies. Effects on the corticosterone, adrenocorticotropin hormone, proopiomelanocortin, corticotropin releasing factor (CRF) and CRF receptor1 (CRF R1) mRNA in the pituitary, hypothalamus and amygdala of rats have been noted. Moreover effects of nandrolone on adiponectin, insulin, ghrelin, leptin and corticosterone (CORT), and cortical serotoninergic system (CSS) have been observed. Nandrolone has been shown to not only inhibit the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Gonadal axis (HPGA) but also the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal axis (HPAA), resulting in the decrease of hormones such as aldosterone and cortisol

 

[Deleted member 127229]

All things equal (training, rest, calories)

How many Primo/Test cycles is enough to put on some mass comparable to NPP? I keep wanting to run an NPP/Test/Primo cycle, but man I don't wanna f*ck up my health long term if Primo will get me there eventually.

Do the NPP gains stick around after cycle enough to warrant the risks?



Heart hypertrophy

Nandrolone administration with or without strenuous exercise increases cardiac fatal genes overexpression, calcium/calmodulin-dependent protein kinaseiiδ, and monoamine oxidase activities and enhances blood pressure in adult wistar rats - PubMed

Androgens and cardiovascular disease - PubMed

Cardiovascular effects of androgenic-anabolic steroids - PubMed

Cardiac remodeling

Nandrolone decanoate determines cardiac remodelling and injury by an imbalance in cardiac inflammatory cytokines and ACE activity, blunting of the Bezold-Jarisch reflex, resulting in the development of hypertension - PubMed

Nandrolone and resistance training induce heart remodeling: role of fetal genes and implications for cardiac pathophysiology - PubMed

Neurotoxicity

Lipid peroxidation and apoptotic response in rat brain areas induced by long-term administration of nandrolone: the mutual crosstalk between ROS and NF-kB - PubMed

Nandrolone administration abolishes hippocampal fEPSP-PS potentiation and passive avoidance learning of adolescent male rats - PubMed

Permanently influences the expression of serotonergic and noradrenergic neurotransmission

Chronic nandrolone decanoate exposure during adolescence affects emotional behavior and monoaminergic neurotransmission in adulthood - PubMed

Impairs memory

Nandrolone decanoate administration elevates hippocampal prodynorphin mRNA expression and impairs Morris water maze performance in male rats - PubMed

Anxiety

The opposite effects of nandrolone decanoate and exercise on anxiety levels in rats may involve alterations in hippocampal parvalbumin-positive interneurons - PubMed

Affects the control of emotional behavior such as depression, aggression, and reward.

Anabolic-androgenic steroids affect the content of substance P and substance P(1-7) in the rat brain - PubMed

Single dose is enough to alter brain activity

Nandrolone decanoate enhances hypothalamic biogenic amines in rats - PubMed

Anabolic steroids induce cardiac renin-angiotensin system and impair the beneficial effects of aerobic training in rats - PubMed


Chronic treatment with anabolic steroids induces ventricular repolarization disturbances: cellular, ionic and molecular mechanism - PubMed


Nephrotoxicity in rabbits after long-term nandrolone decanoate administration - PubMed


The risk of life-threatening ventricular arrhythmias in presence of high-intensity endurance exercise along with chronic administration of nandrolone decanoate - PubMed


Cardiopulmonary reflex, cardiac cytokines, and nandrolone decanoate: response to resistance training in rats - PubMed


The impact of nandrolone decanoate on the central nervous system - PubMed

Lol npp/deca is probably the safest steroid besides maybe testosterone. I'm guessing you are a troll.

Guys blast grams of it with few side effects

 

[meteldeth]

Lol npp/deca is probably the safest steroid besides maybe testosterone. I'm guessing you are a troll.

Guys blast grams of it with few side effects

I get it's one of the first classic compounds and has been around for decades at this point, I know it's widely used.

So what gives, are all those studies part of the big pharma misinformation campaign or what? How do we align the medical reality with anecdotal experiences. Primo is "safe", how much less safe is NPP, I'm about to yolo and just run it.

Also, I don't want to grow tits, P5P already on hand.

 

[Rido]

sounds like you shouldn't run NPP

 

[RomanMVP]

All things equal (training, rest, calories)

How many Primo/Test cycles is enough to put on some mass comparable to NPP? I keep wanting to run an NPP/Test/Primo cycle, but man I don't wanna f*ck up my health long term if Primo will get me there eventually.

Do the NPP gains stick around after cycle enough to warrant the risks?



Heart hypertrophy

Nandrolone administration with or without strenuous exercise increases cardiac fatal genes overexpression, calcium/calmodulin-dependent protein kinaseiiδ, and monoamine oxidase activities and enhances blood pressure in adult wistar rats - PubMed

Androgens and cardiovascular disease - PubMed

Cardiovascular effects of androgenic-anabolic steroids - PubMed

Cardiac remodeling

Nandrolone decanoate determines cardiac remodelling and injury by an imbalance in cardiac inflammatory cytokines and ACE activity, blunting of the Bezold-Jarisch reflex, resulting in the development of hypertension - PubMed

Nandrolone and resistance training induce heart remodeling: role of fetal genes and implications for cardiac pathophysiology - PubMed

Neurotoxicity

Lipid peroxidation and apoptotic response in rat brain areas induced by long-term administration of nandrolone: the mutual crosstalk between ROS and NF-kB - PubMed

Nandrolone administration abolishes hippocampal fEPSP-PS potentiation and passive avoidance learning of adolescent male rats - PubMed

Permanently influences the expression of serotonergic and noradrenergic neurotransmission

Chronic nandrolone decanoate exposure during adolescence affects emotional behavior and monoaminergic neurotransmission in adulthood - PubMed

Impairs memory

Nandrolone decanoate administration elevates hippocampal prodynorphin mRNA expression and impairs Morris water maze performance in male rats - PubMed

Anxiety

The opposite effects of nandrolone decanoate and exercise on anxiety levels in rats may involve alterations in hippocampal parvalbumin-positive interneurons - PubMed

Affects the control of emotional behavior such as depression, aggression, and reward.

Anabolic-androgenic steroids affect the content of substance P and substance P(1-7) in the rat brain - PubMed

Single dose is enough to alter brain activity

Nandrolone decanoate enhances hypothalamic biogenic amines in rats - PubMed

Anabolic steroids induce cardiac renin-angiotensin system and impair the beneficial effects of aerobic training in rats - PubMed


Chronic treatment with anabolic steroids induces ventricular repolarization disturbances: cellular, ionic and molecular mechanism - PubMed


Nephrotoxicity in rabbits after long-term nandrolone decanoate administration - PubMed


The risk of life-threatening ventricular arrhythmias in presence of high-intensity endurance exercise along with chronic administration of nandrolone decanoate - PubMed


Cardiopulmonary reflex, cardiac cytokines, and nandrolone decanoate: response to resistance training in rats - PubMed


The impact of nandrolone decanoate on the central nervous system - PubMed

Just by listing all of this info, you have waaaaaay too much anxiety about NPP. Which probably means you shouldn't run it. NPP/Deca is usually considered quite safe, as long as some idiot isn't running it month after month after month, throughout the year.

 

[Palifter]

sounds like you shouldn't run NPP

Sounds like he shouldn’t run PED’s in general….

This has hypochondriac written all over it.

 

[Fattyone]

Just like placebo’s are real… nocebo’s are too.

 

[meteldeth]

Just by listing all of this info, you have waaaaaay too much anxiety about NPP. Which probably means you shouldn't run it. NPP/Deca is usually considered quite safe, as long as some idiot isn't running it month after month after month, throughout the year.

I just copy pasted it from another post, to be honest I only read a couple of them. The rat ones at 20mg per kg seems like a crazy dose, and the poison is in the dose.

Already made my peace with shaving a dozen shitty years off the end, you all are doing a terrible job at talking me into running it. I’m at like 49/51, just give me some reassurance that a cycle or two is gonna leave me with some gains after to outweigh just sticking with Primo 4 life.

 

[Rido]

Just by listing all of this info, you have waaaaaay too much anxiety about NPP. Which probably means you shouldn't run it. NPP/Deca is usually considered quite safe, as long as some idiot isn't running it month after month after month, throughout the year.

I heard the anxiety you get about taking npp gets cancelled out by the anxiety that npp induces

 

[rambonig]

nigga there's students drinking alcohol every night and doing enough drugs to feed an african village yet they do fine in uni afterwards. u rly think the neurotoxicity risk profile of nandrolone is gonna be worse than severe amphetamine/alcohol abuse?

unless ur blasting grams and u stick to a normal cycle, not a thing is gonna happen. if ur worried about the cardiotoxic effect measure ur bp, if its too high take telmisartan. if ur so worried about ur "long term health" (lol), stick to primo.

 

[NineteenNor]

No anabolics are safe.

Nandrolone is far more anabolic and potent at the androgen receptor than primo. It is also more anabolic than testosterone.

Gram of deca solo per week for me the only notable side effect is needing to buy bigger shirts after a few weeks.

 

[Justaguy99]

No anabolics are safe.

Nandrolone is far more anabolic and potent at the androgen receptor than primo. It is also more anabolic than testosterone.

Gram of deca solo per week for me the only notable side effect is needing to buy bigger shirts after a few weeks.

Gram of deca no test?

 

[Rido]

Gram of deca solo per week for me the only notable side effect is needing to buy bigger shirts after a few weeks.

sounds like alot of water

 

[Astartes]

sounds like alot of water

Absolutely would be. Which is fine if you aren’t competing (or are simply bulking) and don’t get bad moon face. More water in muscle fibers equals more leverage and thus more strength. I get the added impact of joint and more importantly tendon relief. (I do not do a gram)

 

[NineteenNor]

Gram of deca no test?

Yes

 

[29trt]

Deca is quite good, to only sides I noticed was anxiety but that disappeared when I got E2 under control.... was running it with test at 2:1 test deca ... next time I will try it at 1:1

Was thinking of adding a DHT in the mix like masteron for perhaps some synergistic effects akin to test,tren,mast I'm sure @Type-IIx would have an opinion about this

Oh the only downside to deca was a lack of strength increase compared to test mg per mg...

 

[Zirpon]

i am one of the few guys here that ran pharma primo and deca. and i can tell you that deca is way way way more anabolic compare to primo or test.
for me 100mg of deca is like 500mg of primo in terms of anabolism.
and i felt great while running deca. the only problem is that deca gives me gyno. i am very sensitive to gyno in general. don't waste your time on primo do deca instead.

 

[meteldeth]

i am one of the few guys here that ran pharma primo and deca. and i can tell you that deca is way way way more anabolic compare to primo or test.
for me 100mg of deca is like 500mg of primo in terms of anabolism.
and i felt great while running deca. the only problem is that deca gives me gyno. i am very sensitive to gyno in general. don't waste your time on primo do deca instead.

Gyno is a big worry, I got a little sensitivity on a high test cycle years back but since incorporating Primo I haven’t needed an AI since.

With NPP and p5p if start feeling anything am I good to just discontinue and things should revert if I catch it early? I don’t have any caber and would rather not touch that stuff if I can avoid it.

 

[effswithtren]

At this point I’m fairly convinced that nandrolone is far and away the most overall potent anabolic in terms of total muscle accrual. People say it’s water weight, and yeah, but that statement is taking into account for that. As in, when it’s over, you’ll have gained more than with other options. Then consider that it’s generally more side effect friendly than those other options. Of course everything I said is a generality and there are exceptions to everything.

People say you shouldn’t hold less water on NPP because it’s the same compound; but I’ve always held less on NPP than deca. Unfortunately I think I see better results on deca as well. My pet theory is that the slower ester accumulates to a higher overall dosage pw. Value that opinion for what you paid for it, because it’s absolutely broscience, but it has been my experience.

 

[Rido]

I just want to say you seem like a good sport for us giving you some shit OP.

I would say start at 200mg of NPP a week. Titrate it up to 400 and gauge where you are mentally.

I felt like I got some anxiety at 400 a week. 300-350 felt like a good spot for me.