TyLu17
Member
I take 500mg so that it is the same as Test E 250mg.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Steroid Profile Testosterone
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lukiss96
Well-known Member
Well, actually 500mg TU equals to about 440mg TE. No way 500mg is only 250mg.
Perhaps that's just feels, because 63% undecanoate vs 72% enanthate (minus ester that is) would make no sense then and that's what's on the leaflet from pharmacy.
TyLu17
Member
it's the feeling for me.
Of course I didn't do a blood test.
perlanera123
New Member
Hi guys, I'm new and I'm thinking of doing a test-E cycle 350mg/week (first cycle), based on your experience, what side effects can I have at these doses? And by increasing the doses, what side effects do you have more than others?
I know these side effects:
-Conversion to estrogen (balanced with an AI)
-High pressure (What do you use to keep your blood pressure under control?)
-Increase in total cholesterol, increase in LDL cholesterol and decrease in HDL cholesterol (Managed with supplements like Liv52, Silymarin, Omega3, RedRice etc)
-liver and kidneys?
Thanks
I know these side effects:
-Conversion to estrogen (balanced with an AI)
-High pressure (What do you use to keep your blood pressure under control?)
-Increase in total cholesterol, increase in LDL cholesterol and decrease in HDL cholesterol (Managed with supplements like Liv52, Silymarin, Omega3, RedRice etc)
-liver and kidneys?
Thanks
lukiss96
Well-known Member
This is not as simple as it sounds sometimes as guys usually either get to the point of gyno and other crazy high estrogen symptoms or crash it completely...
Correct answer is blood work and experimenting. That's the only way to find out what works for you.
This is again individual thing, but I myself use cialis 10mg/day to stay in the 130's/80. Other guys use medications so they might need it and have more experience here.
In general healthy diet and keeping body fat % under control is best bet without meds.
Once again it depends a lot on your diet and physical activity. What you eat is what you are. Also cardio is important. Not crashing estrogen too is important. Limit alcohol. Say no to party or rec drugs.
Since you are not touching orals, you shouldn't worry unless excessive T dose like 3+ grams. In any case limiting orals only when really needed and limiting steroids like tren and other very toxic ones is your best bet.
And finally it's different for everyone, what you read is for you to digest that information and know what's possible, what problems you might experience and be prepared to combat them or even treat yourself due to emergency.
There is no one who walks side effect free, but most likely all these sides won't hit you. One guy might get gyno and the other might get blood pressure or ed and third one nothing at all. It's different for everyone.
For myself, I usually tolerate T well so minor hit on hdl and increased ldl. Need ai on any dosage. Acne so no prop and I choose longer ester with more frequent injection for more stable T levels in blood. Minor blood pressure increase, I use cialis for this. Water retention I fix with strict diet.
One variable that
Administration procedure is one variable you can get a ton of mileage out of without adding any extra drugs into the mix. It's actually two variables: injection frequency and injecting intramuscularly versus subcutaneous.
In short, many of the side effects of testosterone occur when you introduce a big chunk of it to the body at one time. Blood levels spike, and the body responds. This gives you more of both the desirable and undesirable effects of testosterone.
If you are a powerlifter this might be great; you inject your weekly dose so that your serum testosterone peaks on your grueling leg day, and your T level tapers off from there. However, at that peak concentration, it's also when you tend to aromatize the most, when your cholesterol production will accelerate, and when your blood pressure will be its highest. If you can't leverage that peak for a training effect, you don't want it. So what can you do?
If you split your dose up into several injections per week -- every other day or Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, for instance -- you never get that very high peak. You will aromatize less, never max out your cholesterol production in the liver, and reduce the strain on the heart and other organs by modulating the BP spike. All good things, none requiring extra drugs.
If you want to make the release even more gradual, you can inject subcutaneously as well, since esters in subq tissue enter the blood more slowly. The result is as close to a stable T level as you can get if you're injecting an oil-based preparation of a common ester.
Just so it doesn't sound like MWF subq is magic, you can push enough of the longest ester you want and still end up aromatizing, with a shitty lipid panel, and wrecked kidneys from unmanaged BP. But, for TRT-level doses, it should obviate the need to enlist ancillary drugs almost entirely, and can keep some people from needing extra compounds up to 350-500 mg/wk.
Administration procedure is one variable you can get a ton of mileage out of without adding any extra drugs into the mix. It's actually two variables: injection frequency and injecting intramuscularly versus subcutaneous.
In short, many of the side effects of testosterone occur when you introduce a big chunk of it to the body at one time. Blood levels spike, and the body responds. This gives you more of both the desirable and undesirable effects of testosterone.
If you are a powerlifter this might be great; you inject your weekly dose so that your serum testosterone peaks on your grueling leg day, and your T level tapers off from there. However, at that peak concentration, it's also when you tend to aromatize the most, when your cholesterol production will accelerate, and when your blood pressure will be its highest. If you can't leverage that peak for a training effect, you don't want it. So what can you do?
If you split your dose up into several injections per week -- every other day or Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, for instance -- you never get that very high peak. You will aromatize less, never max out your cholesterol production in the liver, and reduce the strain on the heart and other organs by modulating the BP spike. All good things, none requiring extra drugs.
If you want to make the release even more gradual, you can inject subcutaneously as well, since esters in subq tissue enter the blood more slowly. The result is as close to a stable T level as you can get if you're injecting an oil-based preparation of a common ester.
Just so it doesn't sound like MWF subq is magic, you can push enough of the longest ester you want and still end up aromatizing, with a shitty lipid panel, and wrecked kidneys from unmanaged BP. But, for TRT-level doses, it should obviate the need to enlist ancillary drugs almost entirely, and can keep some people from needing extra compounds up to 350-500 mg/wk.
perlanera123
New Member
Thanks for reply, so I can use subq injections 3/4 weekly for limit side effect.
Sorry for the stupid question but I'm really new. Can I use the same testo-e for IM and SubQ injections?
I've read different opinions on which type of injection mode is better IM or Subq , I think I'll start with the subq.
perlanera123
New Member
Yes, I think the best thing is to evaluate each time with lab test. none of us are the same. Thank you for your answer
lukiss96
Well-known Member
Good old Testosterone always amazes me on a cruise. It's crazy how it helps to retain size and not just mass, but quality size on 250mg per week. Lately I find it hard to lose weight even while aggressively dieting, I lose body fat just fine, but weight sticks and scale says the same numbers, but the pics and mirror says otherwise - leaner & visually bigger. Oh yeah and blasting it is super fun. Best steroid for me.
lukiss96
Well-known Member
I recently dropped my dose down to 160mg every 8 days (Testosterone undecanoate) and here are some of my observations:
-Testosterone (exogenous) in general is incredible at maintaining lean muscle mass at relatively low dosages and aggressive calorie deficit.
- Less is sometimes more, I lost some size but, I gotta say even I was surprised how much I actually can maintain on moderate dose. I got visually harder and leaner, while sacrificing some size, but nothing to worry about.
- Stable levels are good, but too stable is what causes side effects (exactly why I switched to e8d), even that one day allows for enough difference between peak (high point) and through (low point), to feel the difference in how I feel.
- I feel the best I have ever felt on synthetic Testosterone. Last time I felt so damn good was back when I was natural like in 2016 or so.
TLDR;
Testosterone at very moderate dosage is a powerful tool to maintain lean body mass, even in not so ideal environment and significant calorie deficit. Chasing stable T levels is ideal, but too stable causes even more side effects. Finding the balance is best.
-Testosterone (exogenous) in general is incredible at maintaining lean muscle mass at relatively low dosages and aggressive calorie deficit.
- Less is sometimes more, I lost some size but, I gotta say even I was surprised how much I actually can maintain on moderate dose. I got visually harder and leaner, while sacrificing some size, but nothing to worry about.
- Stable levels are good, but too stable is what causes side effects (exactly why I switched to e8d), even that one day allows for enough difference between peak (high point) and through (low point), to feel the difference in how I feel.
- I feel the best I have ever felt on synthetic Testosterone. Last time I felt so damn good was back when I was natural like in 2016 or so.
TLDR;
Testosterone at very moderate dosage is a powerful tool to maintain lean body mass, even in not so ideal environment and significant calorie deficit. Chasing stable T levels is ideal, but too stable causes even more side effects. Finding the balance is best.
lukiss96
Well-known Member
Yes, more Testosterone more water. It is inevitable. Depends on body fat % as it effects overall look. Sometimes it can even help in looking more full. I like Testosterone at 200-400mg, so I don't bloat too much while looking full and quite lean.
Hank81
Member
In bodybuilding, testosterone is the steroid for building muscle mass. It doesn't matter what you think about other steroids; when it comes to strength, muscle mass, and quick weight gain, testosterone is and remains the number one here.Let's discuss @Bill Roberts' testosterone profile:
I'm guessing every steroid user has used testosterone. How does it compare to other AAS? Have scientists really improved upon testosterone with synthetics? Or is testosterone still the king?
Please let us know your feedback on the article, and your thoughts and experiences with testosterone in general!
Testosterone Profile
Testosterone, as the natural product drug and one of the most widely used anabolic steroids, is the most convenient choice for a reference drug to whichthinksteroids.com
lukiss96
Well-known Member
It's crazy how Testosterone is not getting the attention it deserves. It's one of the most well known and necessary steroids. Yet so underrated.
After all it is the most important hormone for males. Think about it we blast on it, we cruise on it, we trt on it and yes even naturals we do produce it. That's why Testosterone is number one and will forever stay that way. The best.
After all it is the most important hormone for males. Think about it we blast on it, we cruise on it, we trt on it and yes even naturals we do produce it. That's why Testosterone is number one and will forever stay that way. The best.
Sourbuds
New Member
Let's discuss @Bill Roberts' testosterone profile:
I'm guessing every steroid user has used testosterone. How does it compare to other AAS? Have scientists really improved upon testosterone with synthetics? Or is testosterone still the king?
Please let us know your feedback on the article, and your thoughts and experiences with testosterone in general!
Testosterone Profile
Testosterone, as the natural product drug and one of the most widely used anabolic steroids, is the most convenient choice for a reference drug to which
Sourbuds
New Member
How does injecting Test compare to pellet insertion? Which is the most effective method? Thanks in advance.
lukiss96
Well-known Member
Injections are still gold standard when it comes to Testosterone cycle and TRT.
Cypionate, enanthate are best for most people. For those who want to inject less frequently there is undecanoate ester which works well.
Mongo966
Well-known Member
I'm curious if anyone runs cycles with pellets. That'd be cool if we could just load a bunch of pellets under the skin and forget about it for a few weeks. I'm sure it isn't that simple or that's what we'd be doing.
lukiss96
Well-known Member
I think people just hate injections that they search for alternatives. I don't think anyone actually likes to put syringe in to to their body and inject some liquid/oil. We are just okay with it and we got uses to it. I think there is even some ritual thing to it as you do it for years, it becomes a routine. Just like a smoker lights up a cig. There is something to it, take a vial, wipe it and draw the oil watch it slowly fill up the syringe. Injection itself might not be enjoyable, but it's necessary and is a part of our routine.
lukiss96
Well-known Member
To add to this, I actually feel more freedom on TU (Testosterone undecanoate) than any other ester, I just inject once per week and that's it just 1x injection and I'm good and stable for a week. But I have to say there is something to cypionate that makes me feel better on it, so it's kinda a tradeoff. So for me test is not test, ester makes a difference.
