Thanking God

[CyniQ]

Good on ya Hogg. If my car breaks down, no sweat, I can walk. If my boat breaks down, no sweat, I can swim. Yeah you know where I'm going with this. If the Damn plane breaks down, I'm F*CKED. Cuz I can't FLY.

It is 3700 by plane so I would assume, great circles notwithstanding, that by automobile would be at least 3200 or so.

No flying amigo.....when someone mentions flying, I have 2 weeks worth of nightmares about falling out of the sky. I will not get on a plane if I am conscious or at least semi-conscious enough to fight off those that are trying to get me on one.

 

[Grizzly]

Right, in typical human fashion, as I age and become closer and closer to death, I will become born again so that I can take out an insurance policy. Just in case.

Before the Common Era, CyniQ? Who would have guessed that a "Jesus Freak" such as yourself would bust out with BCE? LOL

 

[FreakyFreddy]

I am deeply religious, and have been since I first fellated bishop McCormack after choir practice in return for a can of Pepsi and a sugar free mint.

 

[Bob Smith]

Whos the dumbass that came up with CE and BCE?

 

[chris gordon]

"I think the idea of humans originating as single-celled amoebas or bacteria or whatever 3 million years ago is more laughable than your previous idea about life on other planets."

Bob, you make a good point. But, I think that you are giving people who believe in only naturalistic causes for the existence man a large concession. Forget about the simplest forms of life, I want an explanation for life from innate matter. I want an explanation of life from non-life. There has not even been one sensible theory offered that has stood up to scientific peer reviewed criticism. Without this piece of the puzzle evolution is a nonstarter.

excellent point Rod...i have to say im impressed , when all this time i thought you were a complete and utter asshole, you may just be the nicest guy on meso.....

 

[Rod]

excellent point Rod...i have to say im impressed , when all this time i thought you were a complete and utter asshole, you may just be the nicest guy on meso.....

Well thanks Chris, I must admit that I have always been fond of you. I never thought that you were a c&u a-hole.

 

[thick]

hoggatha watching too much of the A team. BA. I am the same way though. I have flown once out of necessity and hope to nver fly again

 

[Grizzly]

It's a good thing you're in CA, Hogg. Whenever I get my first Pride fight, you won't have too far to swim to see it. Works out good like that, eh?

 

[manfreakca]

What happened to the beginning of this thread,all this fuckin jibberish talk at first it was a interesting topic now your all off in your own worlds.Keep this thread going!!!!!!!!!

 

[chris gordon]

Well thanks Chris, I must admit that I have always been fond of you. I never thought that you were a c&u a-hole.

i never thought that about you either , but i just wanted to see how it looked in my post

 

[Rod]

i never thought that about you either , but i just wanted to see how it looked in my post

It looked kind of humorous, and I have never thought that you had.

 

[Hogg]

hoggatha watching too much of the A team. BA. I am the same way though. I have flown once out of necessity and hope to nver fly again

It took me 2 hours of flipping through my memory of the a-team to catch what you were saying but now I got it.....you aint gettin me fly on no plane foo.....(bonk!) ......good night BA, enjoy the ride. LOL......now I know what you guys watchn in your spare time up in Iowa

Grizz, I'll be there, it might take a while piloting a fishing boat to Japan but I'll get there eventually.....never count out the portuguese when it comes to traveling on the water

 

[ramboj70]

It took me 2 hours of flipping through my memory of the a-team to catch what you were saying but now I got it.....you aint gettin me fly on no plane foo.....(bonk!) ......good night BA, enjoy the ride. LOL......now I know what you guys watchn in your spare time up in Iowa

Grizz, I'll be there, it might take a while piloting a fishing boat to Japan but I'll get there eventually.....never count out the portuguese when it comes to traveling on the water

I like to thank god for stopping me from having sex with my neighbor! I like to thank god for being with me everyday, but most of all I like to thank god for being god. I almost forgot I like to thank god for me getting pealed

 

[jefft77]

Im still up in the air about religion but I tend to lean towards evolution. I admit that I would love to know Im going somewhere after I die, but still cant get my head around religion. I think it gives great morals and promotes a positive lifestyle but doesnt religion also cause wars? One religious belief vs. another? Here are a few things that have kept me from believing in religion and believing in evolution:

1. (Based on Carbon Dating) Dinosaurs roamed the earth for 150 million years and the evolution of man was only 3 million years. If this is true, then with it being so rare to find fossils of dinosaurs it would be much much more difficult to find fossils for the evolution of man. The ones they have found do seem to match the theory of evolution.

2. If Naohs Ark existed then why are there so many different species of animals in different parts of the world that are separated by water? How did they get there after they got off the Ark? And if they went to Noahs Ark, wouldnt it have been difficult (based on living climate and the ability for some animals to move) for some animals to get there (penquins, sloths, etc..)?How big was Noahs Ark? Was it capable of carrying that may species?

A recent story I read was the evolution of Asians and why they have slanted eyes.This is believed to have been caused by their eyes adapting from thousands of years of walking through sandstorms in the deserts.

These are just some ideas that have kept me from being religious and keeps me believing in evolution. For me, I live not impressing some superior being but by making the people close to me happy. The down side to this is that I believe that when you die nothing happens and that you just rot and become food for the insects. Believe me, there is nothing more Id like than to believe more than when I die I will become something other than rotten flesh.

Feel free to rip apart the ideas above cause Id like to hear some iother views.

 

[Bob Smith]

doesnt religion also cause wars? One religious belief vs. another?

Just like guns dont kill people, people kill people, as does people start wars, not religions. Only the totally freaky people want to destroy other religions and faiths. Islam teaches love of other people, but there are the super-fringe people that want Jihad. Christianity is a loving language, yet people took Scripture out of context, had agendas, etc and ended up with the Crusade.



1. (Based on Carbon Dating)....

Carbon dating has many errors and makes certain assumptions. I will search around and find some references for ya.


2. How big was Noahs Ark?

450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high if the 18 inch cubit is used. Apparently there are different measurements for cubits. From a quick search, I found 18 and 20.6 inches as different lengths for a cubit and there may be more than those two.

Was it capable of carrying that may species?

It didnt have to. I mean, it didnt have to carry a pair of saint bernards, a pair of german shepards, a pair of weiner dogs, etc. All it needed was one pair per animal type (genus, probably), as speciation and selective breeding would eventually lead to the different types of the same animals we have now.

 

[Mark Kerr]

1. (Based on Carbon Dating) Dinosaurs roamed the earth for 150 million years and the evolution of man was only 3 million years. If this is true, then with it being so rare to find fossils of dinosaurs it would be much much more difficult to find fossils for the evolution of man. The ones they have found do seem to match the theory of evolution.

Well, yes and no. The fossil records DO NOT match the theory of evolution at this point, but scientists are hopeful it will one day. The reason the fossil records dont match is because scientists do not use the typical Darwinian model of evolution anymore. It has been revised. Instead of a long process, evolution supposedly takes place EXTREMELY quickly, often times so fast as to not have a "missing link." Supposedly, monkey to man was a geological blink of an eye, therefore the chances of finding the extremely small amount of "missing links" are unlikely. So far, there is no evidence of one species changing to another, but there is evidence of species adapting to their evironment, but they still remain the same species.

2. If Naohs Ark existed then why are there so many different species of animals in different parts of the world that are separated by water? How did they get there after they got off the Ark? And if they went to Noahs Ark, wouldnt it have been difficult (based on living climate and the ability for some animals to move) for some animals to get there (penquins, sloths, etc..)?How big was Noahs Ark? Was it capable of carrying that may species?

That is a tough question. Personally, I dont believe there was a Noah's Ark, but I also dont believe that science could ever disprove there was an Ark.

A recent story I read was the evolution of Asians and why they have slanted eyes.This is believed to have been caused by their eyes adapting from thousands of years of walking through sandstorms in the deserts.

True. There is no doubt that species adapt to their environment. However, are asians a different species than caucasians? No. That fact does not offer any support for a neo-species evolutionary theory.

The evolution vs. religion (particularly Judeo-Christian religions) is a fierce debate. I, however, do not think they answer the same questions, so I do not even consider it a true debate.

 

[oldtimer]

sounds like self loathing masochism to me. what kind of incentive is that to a rational believer who may not have the mental capacity to process the above statement at more than face value... " hmmmmm pain = salvation. so the more pain, the more salvation". now let's assume the believer is both short sighted and devout. can that rationality translate to anything less than a dangerous situation?

Good Q. We look at it as a matter of acceptance, not self-torture. In other words, it's pain/stress that is being forced on you and you have no choice in making it go away. Islam is very intolerant of people who do harm to themselves (in fact, we believe that if someone commits suicide, he/she goes to hell directly without judgment, I hope this point will also clear the confusion about suicide bombings and their so-called relation to Jihad).

Here's a verse from Qur'an:
"O ye who believe! eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities: but let there be amongst you traffic and trade by mutual good-will: nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful!" {An-Nisaa: 29}

Another verse:
"make not your own hands contribute to (your) destruction; but do good; for Allah loveth those who do good" {Al-Baqarah: 195}

-OT

 

[Rod]

"The fossil records DO NOT match the theory of evolution at this point, but scientists are hopeful it will one day. The reason the fossil records dont match is because scientists do not use the typical Darwinian model of evolution anymore. It has been revised. Instead of a long process, evolution supposedly takes place EXTREMELY quickly, often times so fast as to not have a "missing link."'

Mark, you are right in much of your analysis (of course, in my humble opinion), specifically that the fossil record does not match the theory of evolution at this point. The neo-Darwinian theory of evolution does not match with the fossil records. But the neo-Darwinian theory of evolution is the only generally accepted theory of evolution. I know that Gould has offered his "punctuated equilibrium" theory to account for the missing links. Yet, Gould has not offered a convincing explanation for how evolution can happen quickly. The neo-Darwinians have convincingly pointed out that evolutionary theory cannot account for extremely quickly changes.

"The evolution vs. religion (particularly Judeo-Christian religions) is a fierce debate. I, however, do not think they answer the same questions, so I do not even consider it a true debate."

Mark, with the above quote I think disagree. Evolution and Christianity do answer the same questions. Is there a Creator or is man the result of matter, time, and chance? What is the true nature of man? Does life have a purpose? What is the nature of morality? Etc.

Just giving my opinion
Rod

 

[Mark Kerr]

Neo-Darwins do not use the traditional Darwinian evolutionary theory. Why would I say that, you ask? Well, remember that I stated Darwinian evolution takes place over a long period of time. Even Darwin himself saw a problem in this: The Pre-Cambrian Explosion. The Pre-Cambrian Explosion was the phenomenon that occured early in Earths history where there was almost no life (just single-celled Ameoba) and then all of a sudden there was an "explosion" of life. There were several different phylla and species all over the place. Darwin himself saw this problem, but there were no significant fossil records to show otherwise in Darwin's time. He himself admittedly hoped that later archeologists would find more life during the Pre-Cambrian era. Well, within the last year (I believe May 2003), scientists in China finally found an area deep under the ocean that dates to that era, and they found that it indeed did have preserved fossils. Fossils of what? Lots and lots of single-celled organisms. So, essentially, instead of throwing evolution out, they changed the theory. Scientists hypothesized that single-celled organisms evolved into several different species and phylla over a very short period of time. By changing evolutionary theory in this manner, they were able to explain away the Pre-Cambrian Explosion and the lack of "missing links" between species. They say because it happened so fast that there was no significant amount of fossils to confirm their theory. I hope I have been clear.

 

[Mark Kerr]

As far as evolution answering the same question as religion, I disagree. Why? Well, because evolution answers the question of "How does science think we humans were created or developed?" Religion answers the question of "Despite anything science says, how does the Truth say that humans were created or developed?"

There is a difference. For religion, it doesnt matter how factual evolutionary theory becomes, it isnt really true. For science, it DOES matter how factual creationism is. If creationism is backed by empirical data, then evolutionary theory is no longer valid. See my point?

In summary, religious creationism can never be disproven, but evolution can be. That is why the questions they answer are fundamentally different.

Just my 2cc's, but I can easily see how one could disagree with me.