The War on Opioids - Time for Re-Evaluation..?

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I find it amusing all the advertisement lately as if they have sealed the deal and all the opioid fuss is in the past. And of course omitting other substance and its current role and effect in society.

The lack of personal responsibility for folks' decisions and life choices has reached levels of negligence and depravity now dwarfing the Roman Empire. From frivolous litigation succeeding when folks spill hot coffee (which was indeed that wrong left turn at Albuquerque) on themselves and then complaining that they were burned, to a society that allows children to dictate to their parents, and when a company is held liable for misuse of a product that was manufactured to strict quality guidelines - SOMETHING IS WRONG... This is all the equivalent of cranking up the oven and placing your head inside and then blaming someone that no "head protection" was installed... Except TODAY, somehow it appears like so much fun that all your friends have to try it too. And after all, the first thing to fail on a product is the luxury safety features. So how long till we create a world of false comfort and faux security just waiting to break. And all at once. But in short we are creating a world of idiots to which pick up wild snakes and then wonder why they got bit. How does this apply to medical science and prescribing in the US today? Can anyone follow directions anymore? How is it that a person's poor moral code and simple inability to follow directions results in false culpability of drug manufacturers and prescribing physicians.?? And why are others made to pay for another man's sins?

Or are opioid pain medications just an opportune target due to the specific market, and larger more protected markets are causing improper attacks and martyrizations. Why not go after companies poisoning the environment? Or creating products with real hidden dangers? Or Criminals committing atrocious crimes? Why is "Civil Legality" so opportune for attack and duress.? Are physicians just fish swimming SHARKS.? Are they that weak. Yet ever so important? Its not adding up... And I have news for you opioids were dirt cheap there was no monsoon of profit making taking place.

The folks abusing Opioid pain medications KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING. So to ponder where this all stops, we must also consider where and how it started. Civil litigation fueled by Government intervention is not helping matters either. What is the real purpose of regulation, or lack thereof. Is there some unseen agenda, aside from general insanity and social malfeasance? And if so what is it? Because the situation is turning on its side right now and once it flips like a ship its going straight to the bottom. THE SAME CONUNDRUM OF IDEALS, BEHAVIORS, AND VALUES is affecting other avenues of life equally now... The "Opioid Crises" was merely a symptom of a failing society as a whole. Translated - Opioids just may not be the PROBLEM...

The recent unprecedented Practicing of Medicine by the US DEA on this broad and arbitrary scale is improper and unsettling to the security of the democracy of the United States of America. Generalized threatening and terrorization of legitimate pharmaceutical retailers, as well as physicians is further diminishing the capacity of the US Health Care Market to operate objectively and effectively. Thus resulting in an overall diminishment of the practice of health care in the United States. Doctors should not live in fear of doing their jobs properly. The net psychological effect on practicing physicians is damaging on a fundamental level which spills over negatively into all forms of illness and treatments to which they address. Not to mention the financial and legal burdens passed down in cost to consumers and health insurance providers. The initiative was poorly constructed and implemented.
1. Yes certain areas of opioid use in medicine required more control.
2. Opioid users and abusers will get their drugs one way or the other.
3. The re-scheduling of Hydrocodone and essentially the removal of available opioids from the legitimate healthcare market is creating CRIME AVENUES - which due to their nature, most likely can not be undone.
4. New illegal opioid and illegal drug distribution chains and paths which will never be destroyed once started. Illegal Chinese market makers are dumping Fentanyl on the US market. Amongst every other illegal and improper vectors which are venturing to profit from this new opportunity. FENTANYL IS TOO SMALL IN PHYSCICAL SIZE TO CONTROL AND PREVENTS IT'S ILLEGAL DISTRIBUTION. PERIOD. (Poor Planning PERIOD)
5. New chemical analogs, similar drugs, and other illegal drug types are now also being designed, created, and distributed too quickly to regulate.
6. Creation of counterfeit pill markets using fentanyl and worse MANUFACTURED BY HACKS that improperly construct fake pills contain improperly high if not lethal doses of active ingredient - Fentanyl.
7. Re-birth of heroine markets. Heroin also now tainted with fentanyl which is even more deadly and all to increase profit.
8. Increased DEMAND for other illegal drugs in attempts by drug users and legitimate pain sufferers to compensate.
9. Legalization of MEdical Marijuana for PAIN Mitigation IS NOT a proper solution, as this market opening up is enabling youth to misuse and essentially retarding the upcoming generation irrevocably. It's a no-brainer that marijuana damages mental development in developmental adolescents. Let's not forget that marijuana is a SCHEDULE ONE SUBSTANCE (What is going on here!?!?!!!). DEA Drug scheduling is based PRIMARILY on POTENTIAL FOR ABUSE.
10. Creation of NEW ILLEGAL DRUG CONSUMERS AS FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE IN CONSUMER MARKET PSYCHOLOGY EMERGES.
11. Removal of legal prescription opioids HAS NOT lowered the death rate. (This means it has INCREASED IT - FYI....)
12. The demonization of hydrocodone , as a specific drug, was political at best. All told to date...
13. It would be a safe to speculate that all middle aged hydrocodone users that WERE/ and before 2014 and now EITHER (a) Dead, (b) Suffering and disabled due to discontinuation, (c) Using alcohol and other substance to compensate loss of access to hydrocodone.
14. Hydrocodone was a fairly safe and extremely effective pain medication which was demonized and banned in an arbitrary inclusion into the opioid control re-regulation efforts. Its not unfair to speculate that the re-scheduling of hydrocodone to a schedule II controlled substance was politically and unjustifiably motivated; and with poor pre-thought and planning. While hydrocodone is also abused by some users, the negative effects of said drug in terms of overdose deaths, perceived off-label market value, and most notably addictive properties - WAS IMPROPERLY REPRESENTED AND GROSSLY EXAGGERATED. It has been demonstrated in clinical studies that the addictive and other negative effects of hydrocodone are dwarfed by other lines or stronger opioids, including oxycodone.
15. The partial illegalization (State to state determinant) of the natural opioid substitute KRATOM, was pre-mature and most likely improper. The biological action of Kratom DOES APPEAR to be partially effective in terms of pain mitigation at the Opioid MU Receptor, and with minimal negative effects including market abuse. Kratom appears safely cost prohibitive and also appears to have limited lethality in use. Kratom sales and distribution control should be re-evaluated in all states at this time. In short, Kratom makes most users WANT TO BARF....
16. A complete re-evaluation of the war on opioids in terms of medical market use and distribution lines is strongly encourages AT THIS TIME.
17. BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE...
18. Lastly and certainly not least, it should be noted that converting pain patients to other analgesics such as NSAIDs is improper and poorly conjectured as the negative effects of NSAID pain medications from long term use will be catastrophic in terms of gastric and vascular damage -minimally... With consideration of the emerging positive data on the "Value of the gut" which is an ORGAN unto itself, AND which may even be the only ORGAN to elicit DIRECT CONTOL over the BRAIN, NSAIDs MAY BE CATASTROPHIC with long term chronic use. It is well documented that NSAID medications damage the gut resulting in anemia generating ulcerations, damage to mitochondria, and most likely a myriad of other biological intestinal disorders, permanent kidney damage and STROKE. NSAID USE ALONE may very well result in many illnesses with consideration of the emerging data on the broad and CRITICAL functional value of the gut. As a longer term more indirect and insidious negative consequence of long term NSAID use, these medications may ALSO very well cause vascular damage on a colossal scale which could possibly result in population-wide blood clotting disorders requiring anti-coagulant medication for MANY users ultimately. Are we looking at an NSAID APOCALYPSE of brain-warped, gut-failed, blood-clotted zombies?? Seriously..

And trust me - NO ONE cares about tomorrow. Else they would be working for today. You will be left to fend for yourselves. As you are now already.

SO what is the true cost? You say, "Oh, you are being irrational, eventually the demand will go away and this will be successful.." But at what cost...? And somehow the latter experience always seems to expedite the the eventual expedition of principle conditions.
- Rampant alcoholism and its sociological effects on physical health, psychological health, and resulting consequence in action of intoxicated behavior.
- Do you think these folks running around shooting up malls are on opioids? Don't think so. Drunk or stoned perhaps. Why don't we hear these STATS?!!!
- How much money in alcohol rehabilitation cost. After all the two PRIMARY TRIGGERS to enabling a trip to a REHAB are ALCOHOL AND BENZO's, as these have been deemed the two drugs which are considered "immediately life threatening upon direct cessation of use".
- How many people will go into the ER bleeding out internally from NSAID related ulcers?
- How many people will have heart attacks and strokes from NSAID USE?
- What is the COST of the long term effect of NSAID USE.
- How many children will die after being given a new drug analog which is now created due to the opioid crackdown? FYI - Kids were not really even into pain pills. Not before all the hype anyway...
- How many people will drink themselves to death and how far down with early alcoholism from onlookers and exposed children trickle?
- How many more kids will see their parents drinking more and be more likely to drink themselves and get into accidents harming both themselves and others?
- Was the internet and proliferation of "social media" even considered in this decision to upheaval the opioid market. And how that expedites the other evils?
- HOW LONG TILL SOME DRUG DEALER THAT WOULD NOT HAVE EXISTED OTHERWISE CAUSES HARM TO YOU OR YOUR FAMILY...!!!!
- the list goes on and on and one...

WHY IS IT THAT THEY JUST DID NOT ALLOW THE BEAST TO SLEEP AND START MORE SLOWLY WITH THE CONTROL MEASURES??? WHY...? Because I THINK they woke it's mother.. And she's pissed....
 
here are my opinions

1.agree
2. Agree but usually they’re getting fentanyl now unwittingly which is dangerous
3. I agree
4. This is just the way humans are. New research chemicals / designer drugs that aren’t yet observed by the DEA and made illegal are being manufactured in droves. There will always be a market for drugs.
5. Agree (also mentioned above)
6. Absolutely
7. Agree, “heroin” has always been here and always will be. However most heroin users get started on pills.
8. I agree
9. I disagree completely here with your point on weed. If weed is legal and opioids are next to impossible to find (not to mention it is socially taboo for teens to use opioids, and teens are status-hypersensitive), kids will just use weed unless they have a prior problem with opioids.) kids will always want to use drugs and alcohol opioids or stimulants are leaps and bounds worse than pot, so why not just let kids smoke their pot if they’re gonna find a way to get high anyway?
10. Could you elaborate on what you mean by that.
11. Completely agree, take away an opioid dependent persons prescription and they will resort to street dope which is usually fentanyl
12. Can you elaborate, do you mean because of public perception so they rescheduled it to make it seem like they’re taking some measures in their new anti opioid policy?
13. I don’t know about that, unless doctors stopped writing their prescriptions cause of the new policy? I don’t see that being something that realistically happened - even if they made it a schedule CII drug, any patient with a halfway decent relationship with their doctor would still get it, it would just be more tightly regulated on how the doctor writes the prescription and sends it over to the pharmacy, and the pharmacy would just have to verify it a little more tightly to make sure it’s legitimate. I get prescription adderall and never have had a problem being prescribed it or filling it, and it’s a CII like hydrocodone.
14. I agree, hydrocodone is relatively safe. When the government limited the amount of Tylenol pharma manufacturers could put in each pill to 325 I was happy, as it makes hydrocodone kill less drug abusers and harm less non drug abusers, as too much Tylenol a day can destroy your liver. Now that was progressive.
15. Kratom is good for society. I like the way it feels and use it once in a blue moon for fun. It actually helped some people I know get off heroin. And you can’t overdose on it. I also think that it helps opioid-curious people avoid hardcore addiction by getting an opioid feeling with a drug that has a ceiling on its effects and has almost no reported overdoses. And it’s explicitly LEGAL in Tennessee too, which is awesome.
16. Yes
17. Yes
18. NSAIDs are a joke for severe pain. Any doctor giving them to someone with debilitating pain just cause they fear DEA would come for them is just cheating their patients and if I were those doctors I wouldn’t be able to sleep soundly at night knowing that I’m fucking my patients over. The war on opioids is fucking over people who have real problems. People go to their doctor in debilitating pain and get referred out or told no every damn day. It’s infuriating bro.

I personally don’t agree nor disagree with the war on opioids. On one hand, most everyone who uses heroin (really now just fentanyl) got started with legitimate pills from either their doctor or someone else’s pills. Yes opioids can be devastating to users and their families. No I don’t agree with severe crackdowns as hard as the government has forced on providers today. However, smart prescribing practices and public education and harm reduction in my view are the solution. Not too harsh so that legitimate pain patients can’t get them, but strict enough so people can’t fly down to Florida and pay a shady doctor 500 dollars for 800 oxycodone 30mgs then take their script back to their home state and make tens of thousands. It’s a balancing act.

Anyway, very interesting post and I’m glad that you shared your view point. I think opioids deserve to be tightly regulated but the strangulation and demonization in the government and media today is too much. Too many people are dying from fentanyl. Doctors should just use their best judgement, and give the correct drugs. Stubbed toe? Get out of my office and take some Tylenol. Compound fracture or severe injury/pain? Give you the right dose of opioid a couple weeks or less, and if you are still in pain by then come see me and we can discuss giving you more. Chronic pain? Understandable, we could give you opioids because no one should live a life of pain, but if you are getting a very large amount and dose from us I think drug testing every month when you get your prescription is fair. At least today when abuse is so rampant.
Every patient should be treated with kindness and basic respect. And so should every junkie. Because junkies hate their lives and most have attempted suicide or will end up dead because they keep using drugs because they hate themselves and society reinforces their self hatred.

We need a pro-rehabilitation culture in the USA. Addicts are demonized and people run away from them without even giving them a chance. What we need are needle exchanges, more access to methadone and suboxone, and compassion. This is a cultural and perception issue. Junkies aren’t criminals, their dealers are. Imagine having to withdraw in a holding cell. Vomiting shitting and pissing yourself in a cold sweat up for 72 hours straight.

Sending good vibes your way
Mondo
 
Nice reply..

I first want to be clear I don't have a dog in the race either. I don't care anymore I just live in pain and use alcohol to mitigate when possible. I gave up after about the first year of TABHIBITION... My primary point of the post is to address the COLLATERAL DAMAGE that is occurring as a result of the ban on opioids.. Inclusive of meth use that would not have otherwise occurred in terms of substance abusers. But this is the market I am addressing as attempting to bring to light the true social consequence. Right down to the increased rates of burglaries, thefts, violent crimes, suicides and more. The health consequence of alcohol related illness will be catastrophic as well. Lets not forget again the net effect this unprecedented type of regulation has on a physicians operational psyche. A person can only take so much before they GIVE UP..

AND isn't it convenient how ANTIFA, COVID, BLM, MARKET DOWNTURN, INFLATION, and all that shit seem to cloud over the potential for statistical analysis that would have been otherwise possible... Now its not. In 5 years we can all look back and all we will see with wanton chaos and havoc. I am not blaming the fall of Western Civilization on opioid regulation. But it sure would be nice to fall pain free falling. o_O


10. Could you elaborate on what you mean by that.
Here I mean that as new designer drugs emerge even faster, and usage of other drugs replace opioids in those circles, those circles then contaminate others with their perceptions as/of newly replaced substitutes. Thus affecting new social circles potentially. Hence the psychological "description" of WHAT is available and WHAT is "in bounds" changes dramatically for the worse. And synergized by the new market pathways or availability. Hydrocodone also probably gained the most attention due to rescheduling of such a commonly prescribed medication. So this user group is really out there "making markets" in terms of perceptions. Basically the world short circuits and gets scrambled and you have things that did not exist before nor never would have. New drug abusers which never would have been.
(no that probably did not clear it up but it felt nice to babble some bulshito_O)

12. Can you elaborate, do you mean because of public perception so they rescheduled it to make it seem like they’re taking some measures in their new anti opioid policy?

No I mean that some senators child probably wound up in the hospital after a night of drinking and God knows what. Also had opioids in system, and was most likely hydrocodone as most found in homes. HOWEVER, probably had many other substances on boarded as well. But Hydrocodone got the black eye since it was so common, and they also would not want to ADMIT to ILLEGAL DRUGS also in play. It should also be considered that due to its schedule III nature it would be the most available in the medicine cabinets and thus/ blame the drug instead of the irresponsible patients for leaving it around. Etc.. Etc... Lastly I suspect the Obama administration was leveling the playing field and attacking the middle class as we were all pretty happy feeling no pain... I'm fairly certain HE was single handedly responsible for the initiative...

13. I don’t know about that, unless doctors stopped writing their prescriptions cause of the new policy? I don’t see that being something that realistically happened - even if they made it a schedule CII drug, any patient with a halfway decent relationship with their doctor would still get it, it would just be more tightly regulated on how the doctor writes the prescription and sends it over to the pharmacy, and the pharmacy would just have to verify it a little more tightly to make sure it’s legitimate. I get prescription adderall and never have had a problem being prescribed it or filling it, and it’s a CII like hydrocodone.

NO, they cut EVERYONE OFF COLD. It quickly became a legal insurance liability matter as well and quickly effected changes in BUSINESS PRACTICE MANDATED OPERATING PROCEDURE from the big managing partner docs at the top which then took the decision making ability away from the Physician. - -NO HYDRO SCRIPTS WRITTEN- - became the standing practice-wide orders... Still is pretty much.. Family docs and internal med docs alike. Orthos wont even discuss it now even more motive to start cutting. :oops:.. . Monthly users were dumped WHOLESALE.. Even today docs will start pissing down their legs at the mere mention of writing a hydro script. While perhaps the folks that got one script per year keep on, that is doubtful as well. BE ADVISED> Even if you just underwent surgery they are currently inclined to send you home when you leave the hospital recommending tylenol and nsalds. ITS INSANE... Cancer patients are suffering being offered a meager 5/500 hydro/apap for their troubles. Its ridiculous.. . Its also another negative result of Obama care in which docs now shop you out to specialist FOR EVERYTHING so everyone can get a taste of the lesser amount of money they can bill. The INTERNISTS DOCs OFFICE HAS CHANGED and is NO LONGER your one stop shop. And even with referral the pain docs will hesitate to write anything short of "twisting and tweakin ya with tricks and cortisone". And cortisone is a lot more metabolically damaging than you would think.... Pain Docs remain under great scrutiny today and actually have the highest suspect profiles even still...

The cold cut off was so profound that manufacturers stopped selling and drugstores stopped buying you could not get a hydrocodone at CVS or Walgreens even with a script. So some docs were like, OK, well I must have been writing you a Sched II the whole time so why not write you some Percs since there's no hydrocodone out there. Then the Supply of Baseline oxycodone's dried up. EVEN IF YOU COULD GET A SCRIPT for lightweight opioids, you LITERALLY COULD NOT GET IT FILLED...

The DEA was ACTIVELY THREATENING and INTIMIDATING PHYSICIAN PRACTICES and PHARMACIES alike. In their face with verbal threats describing limits on what they could write and fill as well as conducting audits.... And still today if you are in the business and you want a visit from them, just write so many scripts or sell so many pills and see what happens.

But hey!! The good news is that got them off steroids for a while. Why do you think the steroid market opened wide starting about then...:rolleyes:

14. I agree, hydrocodone is relatively safe. When the government limited the amount of Tylenol pharma manufacturers could put in each pill to 325 I was happy, as it makes hydrocodone kill less drug abusers and harm less non drug abusers, as too much Tylenol a day can destroy your liver. Now that was progressive.

They have not limited anything ??to my knowledge??. Its just the brand generic clone in question. For example a Percocet is BRAND Oxcodone and tylenol, a Percodan is BRAND Oxycodone and aspirin, etc... (i have forgotten those are not accurate descriptions only examples). LORTAB is BRAND Hydrocodone 5mg/500 tylenol.. As a GENERIC, "HYDROCONE APAP" comes in either 5, 7.5 or 10mgs with 500mgs of tylenol. Many companies like WATSON, etc. manufacture these generic versions of hydro and tylenol. "NORCO" means Norco Made 10mgs hydro and 300mgs tylenol. The brand Imitations are what the generics are based off. The pill Bret Favre made famous (Vicodin) was just a BRAND NAME for Hydrocodone APAP 500/5mgs if I my memory serves... As with many drugs the original patent rights have been sold on and new companies hold the "BRAND TITLE" while all other companies can make generic versions of the same shit. that's a potato./.POTAATO.. but nothing is changed other than notoriety... Hell docs could have been writing straight up HYDROCODONE BITRATE with ZERO Tylenol had they wanted to save their patients livers. THEY STILL COULD. If they want to go to jail.

18. NSAIDs are a joke for severe pain. Any doctor giving them to someone with debilitating pain just cause they fear DEA would come for them is just cheating their patients and if I were those doctors I wouldn’t be able to sleep soundly at night knowing that I’m fucking my patients over. The war on opioids is fucking over people who have real problems. People go to their doctor in debilitating pain and get referred out or told no every damn day. It’s infuriating bro.
NSAIDS are excellent for bone pain. They will also deal with a headache to some degree. BUT THEY ARE SILENT KILLERS this I guarantee... DO NOT DISCOUNT HOW HARMFUL NSAIDS ARE IN TERMS OF GASTIC AND VASCULAR DAMAGE POTENTIAL - THAT IS NO JOKE... ! We are talking a "coumadin apocalypse" around the corner... The potential consequence considering the gut's relation to the brain IS UNCHARTED TERRITORY and should be a HOT TOPIC like YESTERDAY...! And the beauty is that its not going to be readily identifiable or traceable short of YEARs of data. As, "Hell he just had a stroke or heart attack what can we say!!!".... I recently met someone that lost a kidney eating 6-8 advil per day for many years... If you doubt me just bite an Aleve in half and swallow it without water and see what happens to your throat...

Fuck VIOXX Blinded people.

Look up the side effects on common prescription NSAIDS that ortho's will be happy to write you.. its fukin scary the reactions you can have.


(*On a side note - DIDJU KNOW that the most esophageal damaging drug on the market is the antibiotic Doxycycline. You get one of those stuck in your throat and you got a hole in it..)

We need a pro-rehabilitation culture in the USA. Addicts are demonized and people run away from them without even giving them a chance. What we need are needle exchanges, more access to methadone and suboxone, and compassion. This is a cultural and perception issue. Junkies aren’t criminals, their dealers are. Imagine having to withdraw in a holding cell. Vomiting shitting and pissing yourself in a cold sweat up for 72 hours straight.
BANG ON..!!! My doc buddy who got cut off died due to exacerbated alcohol abuse as well as turning to other street drugs resulting from lack of access to ANY opioid harm reduction and mitigation. They literally wanted EVERYONE using them regularly TO JUST FUKKING DIE back in 2015... They have succeeded for the most part...

Kratom alone would have kept him afloat enough to be back on track by now. However it was also rendered illegal where I live and it is cost prohibative. He was simply cut off too hard and too fast..

Kratom is nice and I could travel an hour out of state to get it, but the price in Florida is outrageous compared to being in Austin, Texas per say. It does work to a limited degree.. It does elicit a good effect at the opioid MU receptor. I think the action starts to wane after a few uses however. And it is nasty as shit on the taste buds and stomach to consume... and still.. But, Its just not that important to me any more. But I will grab some when I go thru there. For that matter Hydrocodone was proven time again NOT to be physically addictive.. If you want to step up that analogy, hydromorphone was cited as having a 5 day withdrawal. HORSESHIT... They are completely different animals...

I honestly can't even say that I have extended experience with oxycodone lines. I only got them when the hydrocodone dried up and then the percocets were essentially removed from the market as well... I only know they are a different metabolism pathway and apparently bite a lot harder than hydro in terms of addiction. I could detect the difference when taking a Percocet once the hydrocodone was cut off. It also led to serious addiction I never had before..

Every patient should be treated with kindness and basic respect. And so should every junkie. Because junkies hate their lives and most have attempted suicide or will end up dead because they keep using drugs because they hate themselves and society reinforces their self hatred.
Correct, the drug use is a SYMPTOM many times/ MOST TIMES in cases of "Addiction"... And usually NOT the CAUSE OF ABUSIVE USE... I used hydrocodone correctly for 12 years at least and every time my doc went AWOL, the worst that happened was a cold sweat for ONE hour on day 3 and then I forgot about it UNTIL the pain returned... And then I lived a shitty life for a month or so till he returned from hiatus. There is a TERM "Therapeutic Effect" in medicine that has to do with the effectiveness of a pain medication in terms of overall life betterment....

I'm not getting on my hydro-soap-box. I'm just saying it did not deserve to be classified with the OXYs, morphines, or morphones... And codeine and even morphine are shit with tolerance levels that magnify by the hour... You could literally take an inexperienced person and put them on morphine for pain that you would have to quadruple the dosage in a matter of days if not hours...

I will tell you this however. People KNOW I used to take hydrocodone regularly. They know I love being pain free and how pissed I am that I cant get it. Some people offer me hydrocodone pills from time to time. Those pills apparently sell on the street for up to 10 bux. ABSURD. My response to any offers to pick me some up is- "ARE YOU FUKING NUTS I USED TO PAY 10BUX for 90 of em.. - FUK OFF".\ I refuse them if offered on any level because there is no therapeutic value in a couple of tabs if you are in pain, or don't have them handy when you get in pain..

Now if you told me you had some hydroMORPHONE.. Per say. I would say "How many can I have". LOL. Still I would not do it because I recall the power they held... And that was a limited run I had with those after a serious hospitalization that got a hold of me.. BAD..!

"Self-Hatred"..? YES WHEN THEY FIRST CUT ME OFF THEY MADE ME FEEL LIKE A LEPAR AND IN VALED THREATS EVEN. I should have taken them to court for malpractice is what I should have done. When they crossed that line and made me "The enemy".... And they did it too... The bunch of cuntz they are...
9. I disagree completely here with your point on weed. If weed is legal and opioids are next to impossible to find (not to mention it is socially taboo for teens to use opioids, and teens are status-hypersensitive), kids will just use weed unless they have a prior problem with opioids.) kids will always want to use drugs and alcohol opioids or stimulants are leaps and bounds worse than pot, so why not just let kids smoke their pot if they’re gonna find a way to get high anyway?
I saved this one for last. The biggest problem I have with pot is the HANG TIME. All you have to do is smoke 3x's per week and you are permanently stoned. I smoked briefly way back in college and recall after running out, about 3 months with none of it, I snapped out of it one day and it was like life turned back on. I did not give jack shit about shit when on. It fukked my college up too. But different strokes. I would say I was NOT a "functional stoner"... The question is WOULD YOU WANT your kids high"? Keep in mind if they get their hands on some alcohol the effects are gone the next day, that is if they are not driving and get hurt. Pot is also dysphorically disorienting to unexperienced users hence I feel pot is somewhat dangerous to that degree. I once knew a guy that would smoke chicks up because they literally would go on autopilot and just spread their legs too paranoid to refuse sexual congress... While it remained consensual, I am CERTAIN at least half of them would not have put out in the time frame they did. The problem is that it's not only impaired judgement, its extended impaired judgement that never stops with minimal smoking... It's the equivalent of staying ParrotHead Drunk...

My position is that no mentally healthy young person (kids) NEEDS anything and its ALWAYS a matter of peer exposure. I never gave a shit about pot or booze till someone put it in my face and told me it was fun. I never took a tab till I was 23 and barfed and had no interest. Sure I liked to drink beer in bars parting in my 20's. My first serious exposure to hydro was at 33 after some surgery and it also improved the rest of my pain so I stayed on.. I was old enough to be in pain. But none of it should be necc prior to 30's.. aside from pain/stress mitigation due to college and professional careers. But that's a matter of adult decision making at that point.

You also have to remember that alcohol is still in the mix. Just because someone smokes does not mean they are not going to have a beer too. In fact they might me more inclined to take a first drink to wet that parched stoned ass whistle. So now you are not stoned OR drunk. YOU ARE DRONED. And that's another animal too. So all pot legalization really does is add another chip to the board... Those that will partake in youth or adulthood, will STILL BE DRINKING TOO. The only difference is now we have folks that might have never used substance for dislike of alcohol getting high...

Enuff I'm out fer now.. It's late time to take a pill and get my evening DRANK on.. I'm beat shitless today... :eek:;):oops::rolleyes:
L.............. O............... L................................

Just my humble. Nice reply and thanks for taking interest...:)
 
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I think we're complicating the issues.

1) Opioids are the only proven antidepressants to reverse learned helplessness, as has been demonstrated in countless studies with animals.
2) The documented history of selective breeding of high morphine content opium poppies likely took a millennia, indicating analgesic properties were not the original goal per se. There is a long tradition the eastern Mediterranean of serving opium poppy tea at funerals.
3) Opium and morphine addiction only appear to have manifest after the rise of the industrial revolution, which increasingly rendered people economically obsolete, broke family ties, and severely disrupted normal human social relationships. As humans who are alone, until modern times, would soon be dead, loneliness and isolation is the leading cause of depression. High morphine content opium has been available since before Roman times.
4) Fentanyl is all that needs to be discussed. Smugglers don't care what they are smuggling. Why would one risk smuggling a metric ton of heroin when a kilogram brick of fentanyl will yield a similar price?

The latter point is all that matters. As you point out, it is absolutely impossible to control opioids at present given what is available.

What is also important to note is that every artificial opioid, with the exception of methadone that was invented by Germany due to morphine shortages during World War II, were invented to minimize euphoric and addictive effects. Fentanyl is no different (although I do not know this personally).

I once had a serious broken leg after getting hit by another bicyclist in Central Park. I had just started racing bicycles with my then girlfriend and had the toe clips tightened too much. They didn't unclip, got a spiral fracture. Was in the hospital for 10 days for the swelling to go down before an IM rod was put in. Manhattan hospitals are not that great despite the wealth (this was Lenox Hill hospital in the wealthiest Zip Code in America!) and you had to scream for a nurse when the morphine wore off. I could definitely feel the euphoric effects of morphine for maybe an hour, but after that I just felt normal until the pain returned.

When I was released after the surgery, they gave me Percocet, which is Oxycodone instant release. They gave me a shit ton of it, and it made me feel extremely dysphoric compared to morphine (which was a design goal).
To those who were claiming NSAIDs don't work, I found the exact opposite. I would take 800mg of Ibuprofen most of the time, which I felt provided similar analgesic effects without making me feel horrible. The problem of course, is you can only do that for a few days. So I had to mix it up. Suffice it to say, I never finished my huge bottle of Oxycodone and trashed it.

This tells me that addicts who prefer, or settle, for this drug are psychologically damaged in a way many of us cannot imagine. Today, the Benadryl analogs that are most antidepressants are known to be only marginally superior to placebo. The fact the FDA is fast tracking drugs like Ketamine, MDMA, LSD, and Psilocybin as breakthrough antidepressants should be a clue there is serious unmet need.

Moralizing today is not needed, but compassion, and true science.
 
Here you go they are starting to discuss opioid related deaths. Translated - DEATHS RELATED TO PEOPLE SENT TO THE STREETS TO NOW OBTAIN THEIR MEDS.. But they wont say it like it is. While this is Tucker and yes he's RIGHT Sided, its very interesting that they have acknowledged this issue and poorly apparently. It's like a festering pimple that they don't want to pop until long after you are dead...


View: https://youtu.be/esiErPueTyM?t=200
 
Addiction is a spiritual disease, which is to say a disease of your feelings as a result of your actions.

In modern society your actions are severely limited, like being painted into a corner. Supposedly this is for safety and prosperity, but nobody feels safe and most of the actual prosperity is due to selling our future.

Animals in captivity are weak and sick and dysfunctional. This is entirely a byproduct of industrial society.

You can still live a healthy life, but if you know what it takes and how hard it is to do that, what you have to give up, it’s understandable why most do not chose that path.
 
Addiction is a spiritual disease, which is to say a disease of your feelings as a result of your actions.

In modern society your actions are severely limited, like being painted into a corner. Supposedly this is for safety and prosperity, but nobody feels safe and most of the actual prosperity is due to selling our future.

Animals in captivity are weak and sick and dysfunctional. This is entirely a byproduct of industrial society.

You can still live a healthy life, but if you know what it takes and how hard it is to do that, what you have to give up, it’s understandable why most do not chose that path.

Yet the same animals eat and live after being given morphine. The ones that aren't given morphine starve and die. That doesn't sound very spiritual to me.
 
Try as the government wants to, you can’t protect people from themselves.
All the people I know that we’re hooked on pain pills simply switched to heroin because it was easier to get and cheaper.
When they couldn’t get that they just got coke, meth, mdma, etc. whatever they could get their hands on.
all these laws do are stigmatize certain drug users and the poor.
Alcohol to me is no better than any other drug. The only reason it’s acceptable is because of the lack of stigma attached to it. We don’t have laws based on evidence or equality.
not every “hardcore” drug user is what we see on the faces of meth posters or the junkie on the side of the street.
The people I knew from working in clubs who used the most drugs and partied the hardest were the most successful, from stock brokers to plastic surgeons, etc.
These laws don’t protect, prevent, or help anyone.
the only thing they do is put the people who work shitty jobs and live shitty lives that only find happiness in getting high in worse situations.
 
Try as the government wants to, you can’t protect people from themselves.
All the people I know that we’re hooked on pain pills simply switched to heroin because it was easier to get and cheaper.
When they couldn’t get that they just got coke, meth, mdma, etc. whatever they could get their hands on.
all these laws do are stigmatize certain drug users and the poor.
Alcohol to me is no better than any other drug. The only reason it’s acceptable is because of the lack of stigma attached to it. We don’t have laws based on evidence or equality.
not every “hardcore” drug user is what we see on the faces of meth posters or the junkie on the side of the street.
The people I knew from working in clubs who used the most drugs and partied the hardest were the most successful, from stock brokers to plastic surgeons, etc.
These laws don’t protect, prevent, or help anyone.
the only thing they do is put the people who work shitty jobs and live shitty lives that only find happiness in getting high in worse situations.
Alcohol was ultimately accepted and survived the decision between opioids and drank because alcohol does the ONE THING that no other drug on this planet can. IT KILLS FEAR.... Unless of course we want to be a nation of twats... As they say. "the benefit outweighs the risk".... Don't try to out-think em. They all ready dun it...
 
Alcohol was ultimately accepted and survived the decision between opioids and drank because alcohol does the ONE THING that no other drug on this planet can. IT KILLS FEAR.... Unless of course we want to be a nation of twats... As they say. "the benefit outweighs the risk".... Don't try to out-think em. They all ready dun it...
What? All drugs lower inhibitions. Most drunks are twats and all drunks are stupid.
 
Seems my doc pulled out his bag of opioids after I sustained serious injury in a bad fall years ago...fuck that as I was well aware of the risks of those drugs and didn't want to become dependent on them. Doctors years back threw vicodin and percocet at me like nothing...now the game has changed.

Fentanyl has changed the game IMO
 
What? All drugs lower inhibitions. Most drunks are twats and all drunks are stupid.
Well you missed in that I was not necessarily referring to "Drunks". I was referring to the effect and usage of the substance alcohol as a QUALIFICATION only. The QUANTITY is the real trick right/ which is what makes it so dangerous..

Agreed on your points. I was ALSO speaking from a therapeutic standpoint. Stress and psyche harm reduction not necessarily correlating with TIME of application. I would argue general stress leads to irrational thought including paranoia and fear over the long haul - if unmitigated. I have known folks to go completely unhinged due to long unmitigated periods of stress. And I am talking after so long a switch flips than can not be turned back.!

However and still, in terms of alcohol intoxication as a current condition, I would suggest alcohol remains the only fear killer. You can compare this logic to any other substance and not find the same result.

"Lowering inhibitions" and FEAR REDUCTION are not the same concepts. Inhibitions are learned constructs within conscious and aware behavior. FEAR is a natural innate built-in mechanism that is very difficult to control regardless of training or experience. Fear is a fundamental survival mechanism of sorts. FEAR is one of the two most powerful forces in the universe. FEAR is MASTER and a point of learning reference to "Inhibitions"... It's not the other way around. I would argue inhibitions are taught behaviors and responses to accepted social norms in many ways and completely learned and filter dependent. A dog or cat has no "inhibitions". They do however have a natural ability to be afraid at appropriate times, and dictated by emotional stimulus alone. You could take any drug ranging from marijuana, to opioids, to amphetamine and these still all have or allow for a strong fear component. Even to argue that a meth head on a psychotic killing spree is fearless would not hold water and does not counter my argument as this person is pervaded with paranoia which is a subset of fear. Even a person sedated with benzo's still retains a normal amount of fear emotion. It may be slower to react, but it remains.
 
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Seems my doc pulled out his bag of opioids after I sustained serious injury in a bad fall years ago...fuck that as I was well aware of the risks of those drugs and didn't want to become dependent on them. Doctors years back threw vicodin and percocet at me like nothing...now the game has changed.

Fentanyl has changed the game IMO
Indeed and it has now killed almost everyone that tried to stay in the pain free game once the legal routes were taken away.
 
Indeed and it has now killed almost everyone that tried to stay in the pain free game once the legal routes were taken away.
Yeah you wouldn't believe how much pain I was in after my accident not to mention a serious head injury as well. I'd do anything to make it all go away..

While I have long recovered, I now appreciate how much those who have chronic pain have to deal with and these people will take anything to make it go away. It's gotten really dangerous with Fentanyl as those people end up dying because of it.

Our government has made it harder for people to seek legal pain remedies that work so we need to develop better pain management technologies that are safer.
 
I agree with a lot of this. The government, via Dea, has scared legitimate doctors from prescribing what they feel is best for their patients. Patients will legitimate pain needs, stage 4 cancers, debilitating back pain, etc... are having to be inconvenienced and "run thru hoops" in order to try and get the proper medications. It's really, really, sad. I'll never forget my uncle, lieing on his death bed in the hospital literally hours away from passing away from pancreatic cancer which spread throughout his entire body, curled up in a fetal position crying in agony. His young daughters were forced to leave the room because they couldn't stand to watch this once strong man, cry his eye's out in agonizing pain. Finally his wife went and got a nurse and demanded they do something to ease his pain. Her response: "I'm sorry, we gave him pain medication an hour ago and he's not due for more yet". His wife started causing a scene and finally a senior nurse came in, checked on him, and went and called the doctor. Only than did he finally receive additional pain medication which allowed him to uncurl from his fetal position and stop crying. It was the saddest thing I've ever seen and changed my entire perspective on euthanasia. He died less than 6 hours later, and even at this point, they were holding back pain meds. Absolutely ridiculous.
I feel so sorry for people with intractable pain, dealing with it all day, every day, in today's "anti-opioid climate". It's so unnecessary.
 
"Deaths due to opioids — mostly synthetic opioids, including fentanyl — accounted for more than 75 percent of the deaths."

FWIW- (these are the stats they admit to....) Oh BOy that banning of legal pain meds and mind torquing of docs around the country has really cut down the death toll... L................. O..........................L....................................
 
"Deaths due to opioids — mostly synthetic opioids, including fentanyl — accounted for more than 75 percent of the deaths."

FWIW- (these are the stats they admit to....) Oh BOy that banning of legal pain meds and mind torquing of docs around the country has really cut down the death toll... L................. O..........................L....................................
I gave up on any street drugs. As i tried some heorin and i got drug tested, it had no heroin. Only fentynal.

all these drugs are fentynal now. I didnt believe it, but its true.

and fentynal was litterally i feel fine, to overdose in 2 seconds. There is no in between.

EVERYONE turning to any pills in the street are od’ing from fent. Xanax, coke, everything is laced with fent.
 
I gave up on any street drugs. As i tried some heorin and i got drug tested, it had no heroin. Only fentynal.

all these drugs are fentynal now. I didnt believe it, but its true.

and fentynal was litterally i feel fine, to overdose in 2 seconds. There is no in between.

EVERYONE turning to any pills in the street are od’ing from fent. Xanax, coke, everything is laced with fent.

Let them all overdose!
 
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