Tobacco

[BBC3]

Re: Chantix - What we know on this around here.?

Day 6 or 7 maybe more I dont know. I am stil trying to get through the starter pack... I have exactly (1) two pill dose for tomorrow before Titrating to the final 2mg/day dose. This morning when I took it I immediately again became unsettled within an hour and felt some strange heart/chest feelings. Had a small dip or two by 10am and poured out the can. About 3pm I thought I might like to have a nice chawchaw, however at the same time I knew it would again increase the sides. IN SHORT I think that nicotine applied with Chantix creates an extra creepout. So I did not even panic about not having the can and went on, unangered or stressed. IN FACT I WOULD SAY I AM A ZOMBIE NOW. Its a really wierd trip. I am very detached like the first time I tried Prozac 12 years ago. Except without the "chesty" serotonin type feeling of not being able to breath attached.... Its also incredibly relaxing more so than anything else. So I guess thats somnolence... Feels good actually. I sure hope my heart does not decide to runaway again now that I am pretty loaded up. The drug does however notably decline after 12 hours, at least initially. I am sure it will be harder to shake once at the full dose. i day Half life I think. I had taken a Metaprolol 3 days in a row after the first tachy event, but now not had one in 2 days. So I wonder if its holding or something else is going on. My pulse is about 60 and I just had my first Adderall 3 hours ago (30mgs). And thats about all I have been taking a day for last week in order to ensure no complications there. But thats an oddly low pulse for a fat 40 year old that normally goes to bed doing 90 while going down.... SO I am afraid something is up, but I am going with it for now. If I can just get 2-3 weeks out of it I can throw the habit easier. finally I dont think Chantix studies have been done with smokeless users and I suspect we build a different receptor profile than smokers. I have smoked as a primary in past. I KNOW the issues with the addiction are totally different...

 

[Crazy Crew]

Re: Chantix - What we know on this around here.?

Day 6 or 7 maybe more I dont know. I am stil trying to get through the starter pack... I have exactly (1) two pill dose for tomorrow before Titrating to the final 2mg/day dose. This morning when I took it I immediately again became unsettled within an hour and felt some strange heart/chest feelings. Had a small dip or two by 10am and poured out the can. About 3pm I thought I might like to have a nice chawchaw, however at the same time I knew it would again increase the sides. IN SHORT I think that nicotine applied with Chantix creates an extra creepout. So I did not even panic about not having the can and went on, unangered or stressed. IN FACT I WOULD SAY I AM A ZOMBIE NOW. Its a really wierd trip. I am very detached like the first time I tried Prozac 12 years ago. Except without the "chesty" serotonin type feeling of not being able to breath attached.... Its also incredibly relaxing more so than anything else. So I guess thats somnolence... Feels good actually. I sure hope my heart does not decide to runaway again now that I am pretty loaded up. The drug does however notably decline after 12 hours, at least initially. I am sure it will be harder to shake once at the full dose. i day Half life I think. I had taken a Metaprolol 3 days in a row after the first tachy event, but now not had one in 2 days. So I wonder if its holding or something else is going on. My pulse is about 60 and I just had my first Adderall 3 hours ago (30mgs). And thats about all I have been taking a day for last week in order to ensure no complications there. But thats an oddly low pulse for a fat 40 year old that normally goes to bed doing 90 while going down.... SO I am afraid something is up, but I am going with it for now. If I can just get 2-3 weeks out of it I can throw the habit easier. finally I dont think Chantix studies have been done with smokeless users and I suspect we build a different receptor profile than smokers. I have smoked as a primary in past. I KNOW the issues with the addiction are totally different...

I didn't have any of the problems you are stating. I continued to smoke for a month after starting and there were no extra side effects. After about a month the desire to smoke just declined to the point I just didn't want a smoke. Chantex never effected the "flavor" (for me anyway).
There is no nicotine (suplimentation) associated with Chantex.

 

[GirlyMan]

Re: Chantix - What we know on this around here.?

FUCKING CRACK FOR THE BRAIN!!!

I think that's a reasonable analogy. I actually became addicted to the "Copenhagen burn" in addition to the nicotine as my gums rotted and receded. Not good.

So now if you can tell me that you know the Secret of the Swallow.

Sure, it's pretty easy. Small swallows and not giving a shit about coughing up black shit from your esophagus. Did I mention that there's like a 4% 5-year survival rate for esophageal cancer?

 

[BBC3]

Re: Chantix - What we know on this around here.?

Props Playa..... LOL

Yes I know about E cancer. I actually got paranoid about that one a year or two back when I saw some media report that it has risen 400% per capita in US. But really my justification is that how the hell is tobacco going to hurt my throat of stomach just passing though, when IT SITS RIGHT ON MY CHEEK...! Not gonna happen. Cheek should go first. My bigggest problem is that after 20+ years of dippin, dentist, maxil, and ENT cant ever tell I dip. They just conseider normal recession of gums.... KNOCK ON WOOD.

I speculate I would at least have a warning by the skin in my mouth turning cancerous first and stop. Perhaps not. Maybe its just soaking all the way down my gums to my jaw bone and one day the xray will be BLACK... I do get lesions around from time to time that bleed (once a year). I always attribute that the herpies, (really cause thats what we ALL have), scrape the shit out of it, and it heals in 3-7 days... Perhaps those were cancers that cellulaer apoctosis was taking care of...

The real fear is (1) getting old and not being able to repair that.... (2) getting such extensive damage (deep into RNA level of skin) so deep that my body can not defend.. You know the baseball player who had is mouth cancer removed, "and it kept comming back"..? It was not comming back, that was the nieghboring cells the were ready, but had not failed yet. So the truth is that the inside of his cheek cells is falling like dominos....

So to update the Chantix I felt wierd all day with heart anomalies subtle. I am pretty sure the drug interacts with the alpha / beta in the heart muscle, dont ask. This has to be the reason. I am sure I have mild bradycardia as my pulse has not been over 60. I am sure this is due to the partial blocking action of the drug ALSO BLOCKING ALPHA/BETA at the heart.!!!! There is no other explanation. I swore it off by noon and yet popped another at 5pm. I took my first 1mg dose morning. Bit of nausia nothing real.. My biggest concern IS THAT I CONTINUE TO DIP. I dont think they did smokeless studies. Whereas the partial agonism and antagonism of the receptors may be enough to turn a cirgarette into a LITTLE WHITE & DIRTY PENIS, it may not have that effect on a nice delicious chaw...

I think that's a reasonable analogy. I actually became addicted to the "Copenhagen burn" in addition to the nicotine as my gums rotted and receded. Not good.


Sure, it's pretty easy. Small swallows and not giving a shit about coughing up black shit from your esophagus. Did I mention that there's like a 4% 5-year survival rate for esophageal cancer?

 

[GirlyMan]

Re: Chantix - What we know on this around here.?

My biggest concern IS THAT I CONTINUE TO DIP.

I wouldn't worry about that. You should notice a trend where you dip less and less often and you're just doing it out of habit instead of to satisfy a nicotine craving. The nice thing about Chantix (or at least the idea behind it) is that you don't need to try as hard to quit as you would otherwise.

I dont think they did smokeless studies. Whereas the partial agonism and antagonism of the receptors may be enough to turn a cirgarette into a LITTLE WHITE & DIRTY PENIS, it may not have that effect on a nice delicious chaw...

Yeah, you're not gonna make me relapse Brother, but I know (or at least remember) what you mean.

 

[BBC3]

Re: Chantix - What we know on this around here.?

OK, I am back in the skitbox with this crap-ass drug. Just tried to go to sleep and the hear issues arose again for the first time in two days. I only took a 15mg dose of adderall today as I was moving up to the 2mg dosing. Probably a mistake as I do think I am suffering from a blocker type scenario at the heart, and the Adderall has probably been combating and well as aggrivating. I did have 3 beers tonight as I got away with it yesterday. No heart racing today. I was having increasing palpitations as I was falling asleep pinnacling with a nice shutdown or attack of some sort flinging me out of bed pounding my chest to be sure it was still going... Did I mention the feeling in my face after about three seconds on no hearbeat... So I have had some caffine and 7.5mgs of Adderall in hopes it will balance out this extra nasty moment. AND YES, I AM DONE WITH IT. Cause I really dont know why I keep trying other than I believe it may be addictive as shit...

1. I have a feeling the nerve development in my heart has a different profile as a dipper, rather than smoker.
2. This really makes me wonder if I am going to have trouble stopping 8 years of adderall. No fucking telling I wonder.
3. FInally I am thinking some hard cardio training drug free will be the only way I can reset this neurological monster I may have created....

 

[BBC3]

Re: Chantix - What we know on this around here.?

I made it through the night, yes I will still be here to ramble.... So I was in some stange situation of nasyt where my heart was trying to shut down while dosing off for the day, and probably did for a few beats.. It was funny, but incideously nasty, in that as my pulse got slower and slower, I had more and more palpiations. Finally ending in a total fibrilation or something. So my decision to get up and have a coke and some Adderall was the right one. I laid around for two hours watching tv feeling a palp or two while the adderall kicked in, and then finally I realized I could not longer "feel" my heartbeat. Thats a good thing as I have realized from this experience that any "awareness" of heartbeat is not good as most likely one is experiencing an issue, even if minor. So it was off to sleep as they were sitting down to the Royal Wedding. And BTW, normally a day or two off Adderall is the best sleep I can get with no cardio issues and good rest for recovery.

CLEARLY this drug is interacting with Heart Neuro Receptors.!!!!!!! In me, and beyond the early issue of a brief 10 second racing spell, it became a blocker, on either beta, alpa, of both levels I dont know. And perhaps the early on racing session was associated with the achieval of blockage on one path prior to the other equally played, thus causing the tachy. I hope this does not mean I will go thru this again as the drug clears. I have little doubt this drug has not yet been honestly evaluation. The problem I speculate is limited, however, when occuring can be SEVERE IMO. The worst part is that the manufacturer and FDA STILL have not acknowledged cardiovascular issues associated with the drug, as they are able to play it down to pre-existing conditions associated with smoker's. I noted one of the suspected interactions is with metaprolol. Now go figure. This is disturbing. Minimally the drug needs to offer further advisement to pre-existing conditions and Drug interaction for sure. Again, considering the implications of that, this will removed the drug from the market eventually I suspect. I am not just being a nut either, and was hopeful for a lazy solution..

Finally I will call a longshot. Due to the epidemic health crisis that smoking is has been the ONLY reason the FDA has allowed this to go on as long as it has. This will be a PARAMOUNT CASE in the end, proving to be the ultimate "if the benefits outweigh the risk" scenario testing this concept. THE DRUG WILL BE REMOVED FROM THE MARKET. I'll give anyone here 100:1 odds....

And yet steroids are illegal.....[)] Roman times indeed with hyppocracy at new heights.

 

[CubbieBlue]

Re: Chantix - What we know on this around here.?

Finally I will call a longshot. Due to the epidemic health crisis that smoking is has been the ONLY reason the FDA has allowed this to go on as long as it has. This will be a PARAMOUNT CASE in the end, proving to be the ultimate "if the benefits outweigh the risk" scenario testing this concept. THE DRUG WILL BE REMOVED FROM THE MARKET. I'll give anyone here 100:1 odds....

And yet steroids are illegal.....[)] Roman times indeed with hyppocracy at new heights.

And yet you continue to take it....why?

 

[BBC3]

Re: Chantix - What we know on this around here.?

As I stated, the lure of an "easy fix" was too enticing, and when all along I know in the end it is the positive effects of nicotine that I seek that would eventually again be realized even if the drug had worked. Plus - I AM A GLUTEN.... I told a friend yesterday that "I was not sure yet if it was addictive, but I thought it was SO DANGEROUS that it made it irresistible to me"...:drooling: So I had to at least take it up to full dose to be sure. I did not take any today and do not plan to. I only keep the remainder around in case of withdrawal unspeculated.

What hurts the worst I think, is the admission that one can no longer "abuse" their bodies, is the realization of old age, and GETTING THE FEAR. So I am old now.

And yet you continue to take it....why?

 

[OhNoYo]

Re: Chantix - What we know on this around here.?

Bradycardia is a concern is some cases, especially if it occurs b/c of genetic issues and/or w/ drugs, as some drugs are known to cause QT Prolongation, which may trigger torsades de pointes, possibly resulting in ventricular fibrillation and sudden cardiac death. There is a wealth of information on Chantix that deals with cardiovascular issues in the pdf file I provided as an attachment, and it does discuss Chantix decreaing HR as you have stated while taking the drug.

 

[BBC3]

Re: Chantix - What we know on this around here.?

Thanks! Yes I have found that the Canadians seem foremost on providing accurant research on CHantix. Perhaps they have more experience and the CHAMPIX drug hit their market first, so they have had more time to own up.. Good to see SOMEONE is talking.

I still find it amazing that Phizer is not formally fessing up to heart issues at this time. The FDA is going to have to call it quits sooner or later on this one. When you think of all the folks that have died as a result and swept under the rug to pre-existing. ITS KIND OF INFURIATING. The more I find out I hear of Docs now refusing to write it, as they have undoubltedly incidentally killed someone with it. Or at least provided the path for the patients choice.

ITs just not worth it. I fear the rage may be real too.

Bradycardia is a concern is some cases, especially if it occurs b/c of genetic issues and/or w/ drugs, as some drugs are known to cause QT Prolongation, which may trigger torsades de pointes, possibly resulting in ventricular fibrillation and sudden cardiac death. There is a wealth of information on Chantix that deals with cardiovascular issues in the pdf file I provided as an attachment, and it does discuss Chantix decreaing HR as you have stated while taking the drug.

 

[nunya.bizness]

Re: Chantix - What we know on this around here.?

Both my wife and I quit smoking about 3 1/2 years ago, using Champix. I definitely had some weird dreams on it, and learned quickly to eat something with it, even if it was just a piece of bread. It was amazing how easily I quit though - after smoking 1 - 1 1/2 packs a day for 29 years.

There is also a mental aspect to be maintained. I consider myself an addict, and know that even one slip up might be enough to get me hooked again. Although it takes no real effort, I don't try to have any positive thoughts about smoking. That sounds weird, but if you've quit, you know what I'm talking about. A negative mindset towards smoking is necessary.

I used to suffer seasonal allergies, had constant colds and congestion, and an irritating post-nasal drip. All gone. In my opinion it was worth the two months of nasty side effects.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Re: Chantix - What we know on this around here.?

Pfizer Inc.'s smoking-cessation drug Chantix was linked to a 72% increase in risk of cardiovascular problems, including stroke and congestive heart failure, according to a new analysis of medical studies.

Researchers looked at 14 clinical trials of the drug, involving 8,216 patients, and concluded that the medicine "was associated with a significantly increased risk of serious adverse cardiovascular events" compared with patients given a placebo.

Steven Nissen, the Cleveland Clinic's chief of cardiovascular medicine, said, "There is uncertainty about this finding." The current study "has some weaknesses," he said.

Analysis Links Pfizer Smoking-Cessation Drug to Heart Problems - WSJ.com


Singh S, Loke YK, Spangler JG, Furberg CD. Risk of serious adverse cardiovascular events associated with varenicline: a systematic review and m eta-analysis. Canadian Medical Association Journal. http://www.cmaj.ca/content/early/2011/07/04/cmaj.110218.full.pdf

Background: There have been postmarketing reports of adverse cardiovascular events associated with the use of varenicline, a widely used smoking cessation drug. We conducted a systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials to ascertain the serious adverse cardiovascular effects of varenicline compared with placebo among tobacco users.

Methods: We searched MEDLINE, EMBASE, the Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews, websites of regulatory authorities and registries of clinical trials, with no date or language restrictions, through September 2010 (updated March 2011) for published and unpublished studies. We selected double-blind randomized controlled trials of at least one week's duration involving smokers or people who used smokeless tobacco that reported on cardiovascular events (ischemia, arrhythmia, congestive heart failure, sudden death or cardiovascular-related death) as serious adverse events asociated with the use of varenicline.

Results: We analyzed data from 14 doubleblind randomized controlled trials involving 8216 participants. The trials ranged in duration from 7 to 52 weeks. Varenicline was associated with a significantly increased risk of serious adverse cardiovascular events compared with placebo (1.06% [52/4908] in varen icline group v. 0.82% [27/3308] in placebo group; Peto odds ratio [OR] 1.72, 95% confidence interval [CI] 1.09–2.71; I2 = 0%). The results of various sensitivity analyses were consistent with those of the main analysis, and a funnel plot showed no publication bias. There were too few deaths to allow meaningful comparisons of mortality.

Interpretation: Our meta-analysis raises safety concerns about the potential for an increased risk of serious adverse cardiovascular events associated with the use of varenicline among tobacco users.

 

[nunya.bizness]

Re: Chantix - What we know on this around here.?

Interpretation: Our meta-analysis raises safety concerns about the potential for an increased risk of serious adverse cardiovascular events associated with the use of varenicline among tobacco users.

If this is the study I saw on tv last night, they mentioned 7 deaths in the Champix test group, and 7 deaths in the placebo group. Given that both were groups of smokers I'd draw the conclusion that smoking killed them, not Champix.

 

[BBC3]

Re: Chantix - What we know on this around here.?

Like I said.... nearly killed me in less than two weeks.

I find it AMUSING that STILL they focus on heart attach, stroke, throbosis side of it - SO that they can still point the finger at the pre-existing conditions associated with lifetime smokers.

I am here to tell you it will just flat out stop your heart from beating!!! QT elongation I am assuming and due to heart alpha/beta receptor interaction.. Slowed me down like I OD'd on a basic beta blocking blood pressure med.

Thanks for the follow up!

Analysis Links Pfizer Smoking-Cessation Drug to Heart Problems - WSJ.com


Singh S, Loke YK, Spangler JG, Furberg CD. Risk of serious adverse cardiovascular events associated with varenicline: a systematic review and m eta-analysis. Canadian Medical Association Journal. http://www.cmaj.ca/content/early/2011/07/04/cmaj.110218.full.pdf

Background: There have been postmarketing reports of adverse cardiovascular events associated with the use of varenicline, a widely used smoking cessation drug. We conducted a systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials to ascertain the serious adverse cardiovascular effects of varenicline compared with placebo among tobacco users.

Methods: We searched MEDLINE, EMBASE, the Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews, websites of regulatory authorities and registries of clinical trials, with no date or language restrictions, through September 2010 (updated March 2011) for published and unpublished studies. We selected double-blind randomized controlled trials of at least one week's duration involving smokers or people who used smokeless tobacco that reported on cardiovascular events (ischemia, arrhythmia, congestive heart failure, sudden death or cardiovascular-related death) as serious adverse events asociated with the use of varenicline.

Results: We analyzed data from 14 doubleblind randomized controlled trials involving 8216 participants. The trials ranged in duration from 7 to 52 weeks. Varenicline was associated with a significantly increased risk of serious adverse cardiovascular events compared with placebo (1.06% [52/4908] in varen icline group v. 0.82% [27/3308] in placebo group; Peto odds ratio [OR] 1.72, 95% confidence interval [CI] 1.09–2.71; I2 = 0%). The results of various sensitivity analyses were consistent with those of the main analysis, and a funnel plot showed no publication bias. There were too few deaths to allow meaningful comparisons of mortality.

Interpretation: Our meta-analysis raises safety concerns about the potential for an increased risk of serious adverse cardiovascular events associated with the use of varenicline among tobacco users.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Re: Chantix - What we know on this around here.?

On April 25, 2011, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) announced its intention of regulating “electronic cigarettes” as tobacco products, having failed in its initial attempt to regulate them as drug-delivery devices. Previously, products delivering refined nicotine had either been regulated as pharmaceuticals (and subjected to the “safe and effective” standard used in drug approvals) or swiftly removed from the market to protect public safety. The FDA's decision came after the courts blocked the agency from regulating these products as drug-delivery devices, holding that under the 2009 Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act (FSPTCA), products containing nicotine derived from tobacco but making no therapeutic claims must be regulated as “tobacco products.” Together, this ruling and the FDA's announcement have upended the status quo. Unless and until the FDA asserts its authority under the FSPTCA, manufacturers can sell concentrated nicotine products directly to consumers, raising serious safety concerns.

Cobb NK, Abrams DB. E-Cigarette or Drug-Delivery Device? Regulating Novel Nicotine Products. New England Journal of Medicine 2011;365(3):193-5. E-cigarette or drug-delivery device? Regulating no... [N Engl J Med. 2011] - PubMed result

Prochaska JJ. Smoking and Mental Illness - Breaking the Link. New England Journal of Medicine 2011;365(3):196-8. MMS: Error

 

[BBC3]

Re: Chantix - What we know on this around here.?

Thanks doc for keeping this one alive.... It occurred to me...

This quesion will boil down to the LAB RATS. And I am not referring to myself[)] How were they dosed with nicotine? Where they hot boxed, fed, intravenous, what....? And more importantly, what happend to them?

If you will note, the manufacturer does not seem to have run studies with regard to smokeless users. WHY MISS THIS MARKET WHEN ITS RIGHT THERE$$. So there has to be a reason, and this could be the evidence for what I am talking about with regard to all the alpha and beta receptor problems this drug appears to cause directly at the heart - IMO.

So what if they did run studies on smokeless users? What would have been the outcome. Have they even been conducted? I speculate the heart issues I had were due to the lack of cardiovascular corruption that the smoke causes. Meaning pehaps smoking protects from this to some degree? So with smokless you would have a nicotine user, with an incredible amount of receptor activity, and unblocked access with no smoke acting on the circulatory system. There's you potential recipie for disaster. So while in smokers, their hearts could be inherently protected from the excess, or unwanted beta shutdown directly at the heart, while smokelss users may be the opposite with incredible potential for heart tissue related reeptor problems via use of this drug. Or could it be just plain and simply that smokless users have ten times the receptor activity just the same as they get ten times the nicotine. And this is just too much with the effects of the drug considered?? All speculation.

ONE THING IS FOR SURE. There is a huge smokeless market out there $$. Big Pharma wants to make money$$. Smokeless is known to be as difficult, if not harder to quit. Smokless users DEFINITELY ingest way more nicotine per day than the avg pack a day smoker. Hell thats a dip or two. SO WHY MISS THIS MARKET??!! It was not an oversite I GUARANTEE. Where are the smokless studies? You can bet they were trialed at inception. The goal is nicotine cessation, right?

 

[manwithaplan]

Re: Chantix - What we know on this around here.?

I see weird very real, vivid dreams if I fall asleep with nicotine patch on.

 

[BBC3]

Re: Chantix - What we know on this around here.?

I hear you...

First, there is a clear difference in the effect of sythetic nicotine in patches and gums, not nice either. I suspect something is lacking and perhaps there is an unknown chemical in natural tobacco not included in patches and gums.... BUT MORE REALISTICALLY, it may just be that I am unknowingly addicted to a production by product, as a pesticide or God knows what!!! But the synthetic forms just are not the same.... They can serve however if educated and determined.

And for GMAN too. Some interesting information I was reviewing the other day about nicotine and human metabolism. IT KINDA APPLIES TO GENERAL MENS HEALTH ISSUES AND COULD PERHAPS BE CONSIDERED A CONCEPT TO REVIEW WITH REGARDS TO TRT, ETC.... I had to dig a little on the smokless tobacco subject. The long and short is that it turns out they are controlling the PH of the smokeless, and that it strongly translates as to how much one can actually ingest - AND CAN FOR CAN.... So I had long suspected they were adding additional nicotine to Copenhagen, Kodiak, etc.... But this appears to be the real explanation, in that the actual amount on PH regulation they achieve from batch to batch is what is varying, and not the amount of nicotine. There is enough nicotine in a can of Copenhagen to kill a person, they just normally can't absorb it all due to this factor amongst others. A question would be do they intentionally vary the PH levels, or is this an unintentional happening? I ALWAYS LOVE a "Hot Can".

Sadly they also spoke about a contaminant commonly found in tobacco that is apparently the cause of cancer moreso than the tobacco its self. Near as I could speculate it sounds like a result of the fire smoking process to dry the tobacco out in barns while strung upside down, and specifice to the wood and smoke to add "heartiness". Thats speculation, but the evidence was clear that this one contaminant (which appeas to be the primary carcinogen) could be controlled much better, but for some reason it is not. I once heard that before C. Koop left office as the US Surgeon General, he made a rogue statement citing that it was not the tobacco causing the cancer, but the methods of growth and processing. Other issues of concern noted would be the concerns with pesticides for one, but even more supprisingly the fertilizers. Apparently Ammonia nitrate (or whichever) that is placed in the ground as standard crop type growth fertilizer, actually degrades to some form of pulonium, which is higher in radioactivity than mother nature usually provides. As a smokeless user, I prefer to selfishly speculate that when fire is then applied (cigarette), the pulonium becomes increasingly potent, or further perverted. The issues is apparently even more related to the continued application of fertilizer and the buildup in the same soils. Again, some I speak is hearsay, and some I have read from reliable sources. ALL FOOD FOR THOUGHT AT BEST...

So that last sentence above really rings home for EVERYONE if you stop and think. This is the same fertilizer they use on many other food crops that everyone eats. Hmmmm. These are the apparent sociological costs of tighter profit margins in farming, and increasing demands with consideration for population growth. It is said that if the US stopped exporting wheat tomorrow, 40% of the world may starve. That how large the implications are. Further and not related, talk about the Irish Potato Famon on a world scale!!

I would agree that nicotine patches can be pretty unsettling. The whole proposition that "keeping a steady supply" resolves the issue is preposterous. The failure with patches is this. People carry baseline amounts of nicotine as users, and the whole concept of using a nicotine product is to get a SPIKE, and above established understood norms in that individual. So the real problem with the patch is that most users get too much. A single 21mg patch would be the equivalent of a two pack a day smoker. So an increase for most with no recession. Really many run the risk of only creating a bigger addiction in the end. Especially considering they have moved the patch completely unmedically regulated. As a dipper, I can sucessfully use the patch to ward off the INSANITY, but after a few days with no "spikes" I start to feel the lack, and even dip whilst wearing whenever trying not totally decided.. As for the gum, one tends to abuse the readily available spike of gratification, hence increasing addiction. Paragraph conclusion: Patches and gums CAN BE valuable tools if educated and properly motivated, and realistically, any increase in consumption I would speculate is quickly squashed once back on conventional tobacco, as that "magic ingredient" just was not there, thus the pshycological line is not drawn long term....

On a final note and how some of this applies to TRT - I don't know. But PH interaction certainly seems to be omitted here, and it seems to be a CRITICAL FACTOR in many aspects of human metabolism. For example, I understand that with amphetamine use, a lower PH (higher acid content) can greatly diminish the effects of the amphetamine. I think to that reference the effective premise is that LOW PH helps the kidneys to expedite the elimination of amphetamines.... I have actually read that amphetamine junkies of a prescription nature (Adderall, Ritalin, etc) will actually consume products like Tums or other ant-acids to successfully increase the effect of the amphetamines. Apparently it can result in a significant difference. As this relates to smokelss tobacco, I think PH is more of a delivery side issue, and may even be preceeded on a molcular level in some type of Unknown PH Prinicpled bonding at the molecular level. So I did not read into it that you could simply suck on a Tums, or drink a coke while dipping, and increase the effect. Although I am not so sure this is not the case to some degree. I think with Nicotine, a higher PH (more basic profile) ellicited higher nicotine activity/potency.

So really, how do a persons normal PH levels interact with Syn-T, clomid, Drugs in general? Clearly people are operating on slightly varying, but apparently significant levels. Have I taken adderall so long that my PH has lowered and thus expediting free T elimination, Androgen conversion, or who knows what? There has to be some information on this as it appears to be a critical base profile factor....?

I see weird very real, vivid dreams if I fall asleep with nicotine patch on.

 

[GirlyMan]

Re: Chantix - What we know on this around here.?

The long and short is that it turns out they are controlling the PH of the smokeless, ...

They sure as shit are. They range from very acidic (5.24 - Hawken Wintergreen) to very alkaline (8.35 - Kodiak Wintergreen). . They know very well, probably better than anyone, that you can be every bit as addicted to "the burn" as the nicotine.