TRT + Cycle - thoughts for the over 50 crowd

[tenpoundsleft]

Here's a link to my latest post on my intro page: https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/new-member.134368132/page-2#post-1441020

As you can see, I'm on TRT - Test Cyp, fairly low dose, about 120mg per week total administered IM in two sessions, timed to the night before a morning gym session, or the morning of a PM gym session. Also Arimidex 0.5 twice per week, although lately I've tried to time the AI to when I feel water retention (left ankle is the worst) and hit it with a pill when I get bloat there. This was based on bro advice ("better to administer when clearly needed and not use routinely") so I'm still working on that approach.

When I was in Asia these past couple weeks, I acquired a mix of product from a pharmacy - recommended by another friend who has lived there for years and buys from them. A GTG place. I got a personal intro to the pharmacist, and she seems like she knows her gear, she actively advised against some items that she said she wasn't sure of the quality. I like that attitude, gives me confidence.

I looked for products that would be synergistic, with a bias toward those that are non-aromatizing (seems like I'm prone to that), stack well with Test Cyp, and don't really induce much bloat. I'm not gunning for big volume gains, slow and steady does it for me. Since I'm on a life-long "cycle" anyway, I'm trying to both cut a little while adding muscle - the approach has worked so far. If I wind up at 220lbs, that probably as heavy as I'd every want to be - at 10%-12% @200lbs would be my ideal outcome, TBH.

So here's what I bought:

Stanzol 10 - Winstrol - 200 tablets
Danabol 10 - Diana - 500 tablets (blue hearts)
Oxan 50 - Anavar - 100 tablets

Equipoise 250 - EQ - 3x10ml
Mastebolin 100 - Masteron - 2x10ml

Provironum 25
Clomid 50
Tamoxifen 20

(all of the above cost me about $300)
*****

I've started frontloading the EQ - a shot EOD - giving me 500 per week. Better to start out conservative I thought, I can always increase.

Doing the basic Cyp, around 120mg, which keeps me around 1200. Doc wants me to be at 1,000, so I'm crowding the limit a little. In a stack, should I back off the test to say 100mg even, so my test goes right below the 1,000 mark? (I've done blood work at steady state injections of both levels, and that's what comes out).

BTW, while on orals other than Anavar, or maybe even then too, I will take "Molecular Nutrition Liver Stabil" - a product one of my friends swears by, he's taken that while on some harsh orals, and his liver values came out outstandingly clean.

I'm also taking HCG - slight impact on test I suppose, but should help the PCT considerably from what I understand.

Now I'm contemplating combinations of what I have - to create shorter cycles (4-6 weeks) - that I can run while cruising on the baseline test my doctor prescribes me.

In no rush to get it started, but once the frontloading phase of the EQ is done - another week or so, I'll start. Suggestions are warmly welcome. This time of year it is easy to control my diet and gym time as my business travel is low.

 

[ironwill1951]

if your on TRT you don't need pct, so your clomid is not needed.
I would up the test to 400 mg a week , leave your eq where it is
do a 12 week cycle , cruise and come back with a cutting cycle later,

 

[tenpoundsleft]

if you're on TRT you don't need pct, so your clomid is not needed.
I would up the test to 400 mg a week , leave your eq where it is, do a 12 week cycle, cruise and come back with a cutting cycle later,

Thanks - the Cyp I get on a script, but I get that in relatively modest quantities. Even if I had large quantities, I seem prone to sides on large amounts of Cyp - water retention specifically. And taking a lot of AI to counter that seems like the wrong approach. Instead, and this is my thought for the other products, to create a stack with Cyp at the base, give me a healthy level of testosterone, then stack EQ and one other:
* Danabol for a bulk cycle
* Winstrol for a cut and hard cycle - or Masteron (I don't have any male pattern baldness issues)
* Anavar for slow gains while cutting

I'm going for the synergistic effect of combining three different AAS types so I can run lower levels, yet get good results.

I was hoping not to have to use the Clomid, but bought a few since the candystore had everything is stock at such low prices. Can't hurt to have as backup.

**** Adding that I think that the 3 combo approach is better for us past 50 as the lower levels are less likely to deliver the harsher sides. Can anyone weigh in on this logic?

 

[Sampei]

My friend If You are worried about aromatization of test, sell the dianabol... It aromatise a lot more. It's like a recipe for a disaster if you don't dose the AI properly.

Have you ever tried test 500 and arimidex 0.5 eod?
Have you checked your diet? If I eat a lots of carbs I'm bloated like shit on test even with perfect estrogen, but if I reduce carb or time it correctly bloating is at minimum.

 

[ironwill1951]

dbol will make you retain a ton of water, way more than test , and is quite toxic for the older athelete , Winnie , mast, or anavar are only good if your bodyfat is already low 10%or lower other wise you will not see the hardening effects , and clomid is to get your natural test going again, if you on TRT you will never have need for it again ,
do the test eq cycle and save the hardening compounds for a later cycle when you are leaner .

 

[Forcedreps]

If you have more test, go for 500mgs/week
Dbol 50mgs/day/5 weeks
Eq 500mgs/week
Winny 50mgs/day for the last 4 weeks of your cycle.
You be pleased with results. Keep up cardio cause you might find some water and fat gain from this cycle.

 

[Forcedreps]

Save the anavar and masterlone for a cut cycle when you can get some short esters. Like test prop, tren ace. If you can keep your diet on point and healthy the eq has been often called the poor mans trenbolone.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

My friend If You are worried about aromatization of test, sell the dianabol... It aromatise a lot more. It's like a recipe for a disaster if you don't dose the AI properly.

Have you ever tried test 500 and arimidex 0.5 eod?
Have you checked your diet? If I eat a lots of carbs I'm bloated like shit on test even with perfect estrogen, but if I reduce carb or time it correctly bloating is at minimum.

Good comments - but while I'm not worried about the aromatization, I am mindful of it. Thus my thought of splitting the AAS intake across 3 varieties. I do have both AI - Arimidex (anastrozole) and SERM - Nolvadex (tamoxifen) on hand to combat water retention, possibly gyno (although I've never had any gyno sensations though, the water is my main issue).

I eat precious little carbs - refined sugars, potatoes, rice, pasta, noodles, bread - none of that. Pretty clean diet. Been on it for years - it gets easier and easier to stay on track. Most everything tastes too sweet to me these days.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

dbol will make you retain a ton of water, way more than test , and is quite toxic for the older athelete , Winnie , mast, or anavar are only good if your bodyfat is already low 10%or lower other wise you will not see the hardening effects , and clomid is to get your natural test going again, if you on TRT you will never have need for it again ,
do the test eq cycle and save the hardening compounds for a later cycle when you are leaner .

Thanks - although I ran a batch of 50 pills of 25mg Anavar - one per day - and taken right before a workout. Did that for a month. Gave me very hard arms and muscles in general - definitely a difference from just being on Test Cyp.

Maybe the BF % measurements need to be age adjusted - a 20-year old at 15% looks a lot different from a 50 year old at 15%. I have visible abs and solid vascularity in general, even if the Tamita/Omron says I'm around 15-16%.

Also, I'm thinking that the combo of running 3 AAS in a stack - with only one oral at a time - and taking the "Molecular Nutrition Liver Stabil" supplement - should be enough to keep any liver issues at bay.

 

[Sampei]

Thanks - although I ran a batch of 50 pills of 25mg Anavar - one per day - and taken right before a workout. Did that for a month. Gave me very hard arms and muscles in general - definitely a difference from just being on Test Cyp.

Maybe the BF % measurements need to be age adjusted - a 20-year old at 15% looks a lot different from a 50 year old at 15%. I have visible abs and solid vascularity in general, even if the Tamita/Omron says I'm around 15-16%.

Also, I'm thinking that the combo of running 3 AAS in a stack - with only one oral at a time - and taking the "Molecular Nutrition Liver Stabil" supplement - should be enough to keep any liver issues at bay.

Liver supplement most of the time don't do much.
I still suggest you to start with increasing test and don't add to many compounds at the same time, you never cycled before... you don't know how you react to all of them, especially together. One compound at a time.

do as you wish, you seems fairly set on what you wanna do
good luck

 

[ironwill1951]

you get your estro correct water wont be a problem .

 

[grey]

@ironwill and others have given good advice here.

Keep this simple, manage your E2, then worry about stacking a trillion things down the road after you know how a basic cycle hits you.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

Liver supplement most of the time don't do much.
I still suggest you to start with increasing test and don't add to many compounds at the same time, you never cycled before... you don't know how you react to all of them, especially together. One compound at a time.

do as you wish, you seems fairly set on what you wanna do
good luck

The "Liver Stabil" supplement definitely helped my friend - he was on a high-dose oral regimen, got his liver values tested, didn't look good, switched nothing other than adding "Liver Stabil" - retested after a few weeks, and values were all of a sudden better than the average non-AAS person's. His experience of course.

And I'm planning on staying near the lower range indicated for the oral in question - and not for longer than about 5 weeks.

Not adding a lot of compounds - I just listed what I bought, not going run everything all at once of course. But the synergistic effects of combining (smaller amounts of) different kinds seem to be too good not to do it.

BTW, I did a 5 week cycle of sorts this summer with Cyp (150/week) + Anavar (25 daily) and this felt noticeably different than just being on Cyp. The muscle pumps were much stronger, and arms and legs started to feel really hard after a few weeks.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

you get your estro correct water wont be a problem .

Yeah, I hope so - and I've been recommended by a seasoned AAS friend to not programmatically take the Arimidex (= twice weekly per my doctor's recommendation - which is based on 100mg of Cyp per week) but instead wait until I feel the symptoms, then take the AI, just to "feel" my way toward the balance point. Does that make sense, is that how you do it? If not, what's the best practice.

 

[grey]

Does that make sense, is that how you do it?

No. Testing and titration of the dosage to keep your e2 levels at the right range is how I do it.

"feels" are super prone to the placebo or "nocebo" effect.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

No. Testing and titration of the dosage to keep your e2 levels at the right range is how I do it.

"feels" are super prone to the placebo or "nocebo" effect.

OK, I'll just stick to the doc's schedule then - 2 x 0.5mg pills of Anastrozole per week - I get the pills on a script, so it's full dose pharma grade.

 

[Genghis K.]

I think you have a somewhat liberal TRT doctor, congratulations. Based on your previous post, your Test level are that of a 18, 20 year old.
Good advise has been given and do be careful with the dbol if you are concerned about aromatization.
IMO, stacking Test (even at your TRT dose), EQ and a 3rd AAS is a good idea. However, if you haven't been on TRT long I would consider allowing a little more time before introducing something other than Test to your body. As it seemed @grey was alluding to, I wouldn't go more than 3 at one time.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

I think you have a somewhat liberal TRT doctor, congratulations. Based on your previous post, your Test level are that of a 18, 20 year old.
Good advise has been given and do be careful with the dbol if you are concerned about aromatization.
IMO, stacking Test (even at your TRT dose), EQ and a 3rd AAS is a good idea. However, if you haven't been on TRT long I would consider allowing a little more time before introducing something other than Test to your body. As it seemed @grey was alluding to, I wouldn't go more than 3 at one time.

Yes, doc is rather anti-FDA and quite OK to sign off on just about anything as long as it is backed by some logic and tests. He only does HRT and other quality of life treatments. A little expensive, but gives me clean paperwork.

3 seems to be the sweet spot from what I've read. Test Cyp to lay the base, and from a few years on Cyp, that level is now established. Then layer on EQ for its special properties, and a synergistic AAS to get a multiplier.

I think this approach will let me run lower total amounts and get fewer sides, for a given benefit.

I will definitely avoid trillions of compounds at the same time - that is sound advice.

 

[Genghis K.]

To clarify, when I have run 3 at a time they have been short blasts.

@ironwill1951 made a good point in a different thread. This is supposed to be fun. With the various items in your inventory you will be able to create different challenges for your body. Training, dieting, everything can be tailored to what direction you want to take your body in. 2016 is going to be fun for you.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

Thanks Genghis - I tried to come up with a good mix, even some that aren't exactly "right" - like the Dana for example - but worthwhile to do a shorter 4-5 week cycle with.

I'm steadily taking the EQ now, 500 per week, through 4 shots. That'll run about 15 weeks or so, until the current stock is out.

In two weeks I'll layer on the 3rd AAS. I'm taking Liver Stabil now prior to adding the oral.

Considering Danabol as the first oral, at ~30mg per day. (Should it be taken an hour prior to workouts, or divided into 20 before workout, and another 10-20 before bedtime?) Planning on running that for 5 weeks.

Then switch from Dana to Masteron (100mg 3x per week), take Liver Stabil again, and give the liver a break for 5 weeks, then switch to Winstrol (30mg per day) for the last 5 weeks. Then Liver Stabil for a month.

Test Cyp throughout at about 120mg per week. HGC throughout, twice weekly, about 0.3ml.

The above is where my thoughts are now. Is there anything inherently flawed with my thinking here? My Cyp dose seems low to you big hitters, but that amount and HCG keeps my total test over 1,000 and more isn't necessary. AFAIK, counterproductive even in that more brings sides.

Humbly adding that I'm a novice at this.

Oh, and the goals with this cycle are not to use up gear, it's to attain :
* drop BF by about 4% - definitely get below 12% this time
* gain muscle mass, total BW of 210 after 15 weeks (I'm at 195 now, lost 10 during my three week trip to Asia - the water that plagued me is gone now, yay)