W 18 drug

[ergomaniac]

health canada is being accused of releasing potentially wrong and misleading information after it released a news release warning out the "street drug" w-18 that has grabbed international headlines.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/health-canada-statements-on-w-18-misleading-potentially-wrong-experts-warn

 

[ergomaniac]

forbes.com/sites/davidkroll/2016/04/30/w-18-the-high-potency-research-chemical-making-news-what-it-is-and-what-it-isnt/#777bc4962354

heres an interesting article called "w-18, the high potency research chemical making news: what it is and what it isn't."
"its one of 35 related chemicals named in a u.s. patent granted in 1984 that were shown to be either painkillers or blockers of the painkilling effect of morphine in mice, but not humans."

 

[RandallNowan]

The two stand-out things for me here are 1) the potency of this shit is almost inconceivably high
2) because of... economics/expectations, this stuff is cut down to tens of thousands of its natural potency to make fake heroin.

What the fuck fillers are people injecting?? Makes me shudder.

 

[ergomaniac]

dosemakespoison.blogspot.com/2016//04/what-do-we-know-about-w-18.html

"despite media reports and quotes from law enforcement officials, the pharmacological profile for w-18 is not well established at this time. we have no data on absorption, distribution, metabolism, or excretion of the substance. we do not know on what specific receptors w-18 acts. we know nothing about receptor binding affinities. we know nothing of the acute effect of the substance. the only piece of pharmacological data that exists for w-18 was acquired via the mouse phenylquinone (PQ) writhing assay."
"the assay results should not be interpreted in any way that insinuates that w-18 is approximately 10,000 times more potent than morphine as a central nervous system depressant. we currently have no pharmacological data to support that w-18 has any activity at the opioid receptors: mu, kappa,or delta."

"as with any other newly emerging psychoactive substance, many claims are made about the compound itself. many of the headlines are meant to grab attention and readership with hysteria about the new "super potent" or "scary" drug of the day. we should guard ourselves against that hyperbole. but, even though we have no data to support the supposed extreme potency of w-18, lets not fall into the trap that it isn't potentially dangerous. we do not have data that shows its lack of potency. this extreme lack of knowledge about the compound make the drug potentially dangerous."

 

[ergomaniac]

dosemakespoison.blogspot.com/2016/05/w-18-pharmacology-update.html
"so, there you have it. officially unofficially w-18 has no affinity at the mu, kappa, or delta opioid receptors."

 

[Cownan]

All I know is people who take this shit die. Its amazing that even though its killing people others are lining up to take the next hit. Weak ass motherfuckers. Yes we all have an addiction to something but personally if I know it has the possibility of killing me b/c of a small overdose or bad fillers no thank you. Steroids are definitely bad enough and Ill deal with those problems when im older. Ill just leave it at that.

As for the people selling fentynal and w18 I have no issues with public executions. They need to be made example of as they ruin more lives than what time left of theirs the law takes away from them by putting them in jail. Fuck them

 

[ergomaniac]

All I know is people who take this shit die.

although there are no cases that actually confirm this.

 

[Cownan]

^^^ this is true. But still. What happened to the good old days where people just hit bumps off titties. Im not into the drug scene but would prefer that over all this new stuff thats coming out

And I have to ask ergo. You seem pretty w-18 pro. Is it just to keep us well informed. Or do you actually think that there is no harm in the drug? Im just curious is all, not jumping to any conclusions whatsoever

 

[RandallNowan]

I've done ketamine off my wife's arse-dimples and it was fucking glorious.

 

[Cownan]

I've done ketamine off my wife's arse-dimples and it was fucking glorious.

See! If youre going to hit anything its the only way to go lol

 

[CdnGuy]

I've done ketamine off my wife's arse-dimples and it was fucking glorious.

See! If youre going to hit anything its the only way to go lol

 

[Megadick3000]

^^^ this is true. But still. What happened to the good old days where people just hit bumps off titties. Im not into the drug scene but would prefer that over all this new stuff thats coming out

And I have to ask ergo. You seem pretty w-18 pro. Is it just to keep us well informed. Or do you actually think that there is no harm in the drug? Im just curious is all, not jumping to any conclusions whatsoever

Personally I own shares in w-18 stock so I'd hate to see it tank in value!

Seriously though, these super potent opiates are on the market because of drug prohibition.

Look at it like this cownan: 1kg of carfentanyl is able to make 5000kg of "fake" heroin. 1kg of heroin is worth around $125,000 dollars. What's 125,000 x 5000? A lot. That 1kg of carfentanyl could be bought/made for as little as $10,000. That's 5000 kilos of fake heroin for $10,000.

Here's the crazy part: the legal consequence to having 1kg of carfentanyl are the exact same as having 1kg of heroin. Meaning if you were caught with a kg of carfentanyl you'd face the same punishment as you would for a kg of heroin. Yet the kg of heroin would only be worth $125k but the kg of carfentanyl could yield a value of $625,000,000

In a risk:reward ratio it makes total sense. Now let's say you had to smuggle it into the country, just like a kg of heroin. You face the same consequenc if your caught doing that, yet stand to gain a heck of a lot more if it's the carfentanyl verse heroin.

This was all predicted back in the early 2000s or maybe late 90's by a DEA agent named Donald Cooper who presented seminars to regional DEA offices called The future synthetic drugs of abuse. Google to read transcripts of it, he correctly predicted a lot of curren trends, because the prohibition of drugs would drive people in this direction and It has.

 

[Cownan]

Good info. This W-18 is making headlines every day.

Wont lie. All this shit makes me fear for my kids safety when they get older. Only another few years and ill have to be having the drug talk with them. Don't look forward to that at all

 

[ergomaniac]

^^^ this is true. But still. What happened to the good old days where people just hit bumps off titties. Im not into the drug scene but would prefer that over all this new stuff thats coming out

And I have to ask ergo. You seem pretty w-18 pro. Is it just to keep us well informed. Or do you actually think that there is no harm in the drug? Im just curious is all, not jumping to any conclusions whatsoever

im not pro w-18. I don't know what the stuff is and a lot of other people aren't too sure either.
if you knew it wasn't killing people, why would you say otherwise along with all that other garbage .
a lot of this "new stuff" is old. w-18 is over 30 years old. you can blame drug prohibition for its resurfacing.

 

[ergomaniac]

Personally I own shares in w-18 stock so I'd hate to see it tank in value!

Seriously though, these super potent opiates are on the market because of drug prohibition.

Look at it like this cownan: 1kg of carfentanyl is able to make 5000kg of "fake" heroin. 1kg of heroin is worth around $125,000 dollars. What's 125,000 x 5000? A lot. That 1kg of carfentanyl could be bought/made for as little as $10,000. That's 5000 kilos of fake heroin for $10,000.

Here's the crazy part: the legal consequence to having 1kg of carfentanyl are the exact same as having 1kg of heroin. Meaning if you were caught with a kg of carfentanyl you'd face the same punishment as you would for a kg of heroin. Yet the kg of heroin would only be worth $125k but the kg of carfentanyl could yield a value of $625,000,000

In a risk:reward ratio it makes total sense. Now let's say you had to smuggle it into the country, just like a kg of heroin. You face the same consequenc if your caught doing that, yet stand to gain a heck of a lot more if it's the carfentanyl verse heroin.

This was all predicted back in the early 2000s or maybe late 90's by a DEA agent named Donald Cooper who presented seminars to regional DEA offices called The future synthetic drugs of abuse. Google to read transcripts of it, he correctly predicted a lot of curren trends, because the prohibition of drugs would drive people in this direction and It has.

future synthetic drugs of abuse - donald a. cooper
erowid.org/library/books_online/future_synthetic/future_synthetic.shtml

a good read. this is the last line before conclusions.
"also several fentanyl derivatives have such high potencies that the quantities required to synthesize are trivial. for instance carfentanil is approximately 4000 times as potent as heroin and has an extremely favorable therapeutic index. hence, an easy weeks work for two chemists could provide 10 kilograms of carfentanil which would be equivalent to 40 metric tons of pure heroin."

 

[ergomaniac]

True. But the danger comes from the ease of sourcing, and the knowledge of those cutting.

In the case of 4f, it's literally a WMD. Just the process of cutting it requires a decent lab. We know that's not how it works. We're talking about product so powerful that a sneeze while working will kill everyone in a five foot radius. And no narcan shots are bringing your ass back from it. . .

What's "worse"? Because for the drug scene, that kind of power, and the accountability required, is definitely a danger. Just depends on your viewpoint (and I kind of agree with you, but there comes a point. . .)

Yes as it becomes more "known" more less advanced ppl will get their hands on it and improperly cut it. It used to only be acquired by the very advanced drug chemists, but it's gotten so mainstream and readily available from the Chinese that anyone can get a hold of it these days.

And your right 4-fluoro-ohmefenetanyl is definitely a WMD, heck even regular fentanyl is WMD. I mean VX nerve Gas, a WMD, is fatal in adults at an inhaled dosage of 10mg. But sonething like 4f is going to be fatal below 10mcg inhaled, which means it's literally 1000x more lethal than VX nerve gas, so if VX nerve gas is classified as a WMD anything more lethal would also be (or at least should be).

opioids.com/carfentanil/gas.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_hostage_crisis_chemical_agent
theres other articles anyone can look up if theyd like including some in the wiki link.

 

[ergomaniac]

w-18 is not a super potent designer opioid as originally believed

forbes.com/sites/davidkroll/2016/07/28/w-18-is-not-a-super-potent-designer-opioid-as-originally-believed/#750007c14121

 

[ergomaniac]

biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/07/24/065623
"although w-18 and w-15 have been described as having potent anti-nociceptive activity and are presumed to interact with the opioid receptors, we found them to be without detectable opioid activity at mu, delta, or kappa and nociception receptors in a variety of assays. we also tested w-18 and w-15 for activity as allosteric modulators at opioid receptors and found them devoid of significant positive or negative allosteric modulator activity." the last line basically meaning these drugs don't strengthen or weaken the effects of other opiates.

 

[ergomaniac]

and last but not least
canada admits it knows very little about w-18, the drug it just banned

news.vice.com/article/canada-admits-that-it-knows-very-little-about-w-18-the-drug-it-just-banned
"despite acknowledging these criticisms , heath canadas statement maintains that the government will move forward in its plans to criminalize possession, production, and sale of w-18..." despite admitting it knows very little about w-18, the drug it just banned.

nope, nothing new here.

 

[CdnGuy]

Been to this festival it's retardly fun. Some smart organizers.....

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/british-columbia/shambhala-festival-fentanyl-test-crowdfunding-ankors-1.3703529 (Shambhala festival supports ANKORS crowdfunding campaign for fentanyl testing equipment)