Watson Test-C (Domestic-Supply) - Blood Work - 2/2015 - LabCorp

[biggerben69]

I appreciate the bloodwork, and would probably be looking into making a purchase if bloods had come back a little better. Even if the bloods had come back 10x, I still wouldn't have absolute faith that it was legit pharma.
Come to think of it, if they were going through so much trouble to make a nearly perfect counterfeit, the dosing should have been the easy part.

I agree with member, Burr. When the gh scam is in full effect over at promuscle the serum tests are through the roof. And that costs some real $$.
When Uncle Z got caught with fake omnas(working replicas) there was what I assume a fair amt of hormone in them. That was before labmax was real big around here.
Knowing that labmax and mass specs would be waiting test is cheap compared to gh...might as well load em up?

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

Here is some hard scientific facts not what a bunch of guys on the Internet said. Link to study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11701431

For those that don't want to read I will quote the important part:

"61 eugonadal men, 18-35 yr, were randomized to one of five groups to receive monthly injections of a long-acting gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonist, to suppress endogenous testosterone secretion, and weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone enanthate for 20 wk. Energy and protein intakes were standardized. The administration of the GnRH agonist plus graded doses of testosterone resulted in mean nadir testosterone concentrations of 253, 306, 542, 1,345, and 2,370 ng/dl"

So in this study the averages are:

25 mgs/253ng/dl = times 10
50 mgs/306ng/dl = times 6
125 mgs/542ng/dl = times 4.5
300mgs/1345ng/dl = times 3.5
600mgs/2370ng/dl =times 4

And yes they were taking GnRH agonist but that still doesn't add up to 10 times.

Well, well, well, look what we have here. KnowNothing and JerkOff have another impostor account. And they're still trying to win the same argument too!

Give it up, losers. This one is lost. Maybe you should try getting a real job instead of trolling internet forums trying to rep for a source that sells bunk gear. Whatever you do, I wouldn't try hiding behind anymore aliases because you're not very good at it.

 

[Dr JIM]

Here is some hard scientific facts not what a bunch of guys on the Internet said. Link to study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11701431

For those that don't want to read I will quote the important part:

"61 eugonadal men, 18-35 yr, were randomized to one of five groups to receive monthly injections of a long-acting gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonist, to suppress endogenous testosterone secretion, and weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone enanthate for 20 wk. Energy and protein intakes were standardized. The administration of the GnRH agonist plus graded doses of testosterone resulted in mean nadir testosterone concentrations of 253, 306, 542, 1,345, and 2,370 ng/dl"

So in this study the averages are:

25 mgs/253ng/dl = times 10
50 mgs/306ng/dl = times 6
125 mgs/542ng/dl = times 4.5
300mgs/1345ng/dl = times 3.5
600mgs/2370ng/dl =times 4

And yes they were taking GnRH agonist but that still doesn't add up to 10 times.

Gosh I feel so fortunate to have 7 post wonder boys like yourself to "quote the important part"!

Now when you pranced onto Meso did you first determine why and under what circumstances the 10X rule applied or did you actually WANT to open mouth and insert foot!

Now wonder boy understand this the 10 Rule applies to PEAK TT levels AFTER steady state levels are achieved.

And while the participants did achieve STEADY STATE levels with 16 weeks of therapy the TT levels obtained were the NADIR rather than PEAK values.

So take your seven posts and go elsewhere to "explain" why we are all "different" bc the ONLY thing this article proves is WE ARE THE SAME!

 

[Dr JIM]

Final quote from the chart I posted. These values were taken at week 16 one week after injection :

• Values on each day represent the mean (±SE) of all available values on that day. However, the change represents the difference between paired values only. Treatment values represent the day 113 (week 16) values, obtained 1 wk after the previous testosterone injection. We used week 16 rather thanweek 20 values because week 20 values were not always drawn exactly 1 wk after the previous injection. LH and FSH, luteinizing and follicle-stimulating hormones, respectively; SHBG, sex hormone-binding globulin; IGF-I, insulin-like growth factor I. To convert total testosterone levels to nmol/l, multiply by 0.03467. To convert free testosterone levels to pg/ml, multiply by 3.467.

You can nadir all you want there is no way there values at week 10 were ten times higher than week 16.

Why don't you investigate the BS your spewing before that foot returns to your mouth bc PEAK TT values are WELL established to increase 2-3 fold above there nadir values.

Bye clown!

 

[jackmeoff1]

Its cool.

So, are you going to make a purchase based off my blood work?

Yes

 

[jackmeoff1]

The formula you bone heads use to calculate If your gear is dosed properly is very flawed. I and many of the other men I talk with that all take Watson from a real pharmacy will tell you for a fact that you can't just take your dose and multiply it by 9 or 8 or whatever number you all have arbitrarily come up with and say we'll it's underdosed. Not everyone's body reacts the same way. You can't define how much and quickly my body absorbs and processes testosterone. You don't have a clue how much testosterone a man still produces after starting taking testosterone everyone is different. I know guys that take 50 mgs a week and get into the 800's (total) and others that take 200 mgs a week and only be around 1200 (total) and I'm talking legit from Walgreens Watson. One guy recently was taking 120 mgs a week and was only around 500 (total). Now I can understand a guy who is taking 750 mgs a week and he is only at 1500 then you could say yeah its underdosed but there is no such thing as mgs per week times 8 = properly dosed gear. That is just not how the human body works we are all different.

A few of us here have been trying to point this out. For whatever reason a few very vocal members here propagate this theory. I presume to support some hidden agenda. If you follow it back to its origins it was nothing more than an observation by an ex doctor.

But be warned. Anyone who intellectually challenges this "rule" is publicly put on display as a "shill" or being affiliated with a UGL scam ring of some type by the loud mouth chest thumpers of this forum.

 

[Dr JIM]

You have yet to make one "intellectual argument" on Meso to date, Whack Off!

 

[I_know_nothing]

Why don't you investigate the BS your spewing before that foot returns to your mouth bc PEAK TT values are WELL established to increase 2-3 fold above there nadir values.

Bye clown!

jim last time this debate came up i gave you plenty of proof on the contrary of the 10x TT rule, jackmeoff even showed pictures of his script, his test vial, as well as his bloods. you then reverted to saying "well hcg and AI affect it!!". come on now jim

 

[dper726]

After how long though?

Peak values if its what you are asking. I do my bloods 24 hours post injection always.

 

[I_know_nothing]

A few of us here have been trying to point this out. For whatever reason a few very vocal members here propagate this theory. I presume to support some hidden agenda. If you follow it back to its origins it was nothing more than an observation by an ex doctor.

But be warned. Anyone who intellectually challenges this "rule" is publicly put on display as a "shill" or being affiliated with a UGL scam ring of some type by the loud mouth chest thumpers of this forum.

i actually have a theory, i think the 10x rule is so heavily pushed because more or less they know it can't be achieved while blasting 500mg+ of any lab, even pharma. now why would they push this? simple, they dont want this to be a sourcing board, there are obviously some members selling in private or over PM and they more or less want users to buy from them rather than public sources, because "oh my gear is much better!" or "oh i use this awesome private lab,i can get you the hook up!"

 

[Burrr]

Seems obvious to me that the reason the medical studies use a nadir value for comparison, and not a peak level, is that the peak is hard to time the blood draw with.

 

[jackmeoff1]

jim last time this debate came up i gave you plenty of proof on the contrary of the 10x TT rule, jackmeoff even showed pictures of his script, his test vial, as well as his bloods. you then reverted to saying "well hcg and AI affect it!!". come on now jim

That is what I am pointing out. When he was proved wrong by data he found a way out by using the variables within my protocol to discredit my data. I was FINE with that honestly but here we are now and he acts like those variables shouldn't be considered.

 

[I_know_nothing]

Seems obvious to me that the reason the medical studies use a nadir value for comparison, and not a peak level, is that the peak is hard to time the blood draw with.

it's more than just that, it would require participants to come in an additional time. it's easier to draw their bloods right before their injection because they're already there. this is especially true for the once weekly, because they only have to come in once a week and get it both done there.

also, the true peak is much harder to predict and time because TT levels fluctuate throughout the day and while your peak may be 24hrs, someone else may be 30hrs. computer stimulated peak TT values are different because it's basically drawing blood instantaneously at every point, obviously something we cant do. would be interesting to see someone draw bloods after 24 hours and say 28 hours.

 

[dper726]

The formula you bone heads use to calculate If your gear is dosed properly is very flawed. I and many of the other men I talk with that all take Watson from a real pharmacy will tell you for a fact that you can't just take your dose and multiply it by 9 or 8 or whatever number you all have arbitrarily come up with and say we'll it's underdosed. Not everyone's body reacts the same way. You can't define how much and quickly my body absorbs and processes testosterone. You don't have a clue how much testosterone a man still produces after starting taking testosterone everyone is different. I know guys that take 50 mgs a week and get into the 800's (total) and others that take 200 mgs a week and only be around 1200 (total) and I'm talking legit from Walgreens Watson. One guy recently was taking 120 mgs a week and was only around 500 (total). Now I can understand a guy who is taking 750 mgs a week and he is only at 1500 then you could say yeah its underdosed but there is no such thing as mgs per week times 8 = properly dosed gear. That is just not how the human body works we are all different.

Flawed? Not by a long shot. You haven't been around here much to know what has been happening here for easily over a decade (not that i have neither but I have sat back and watched, listened then provided my opinion on personal experience on the subject through "TESTING".)

Assuming the human body is indeed metabolically speaking different from subject to subject we have established a safe range of peak results. And nothing has been folklore here. Everything has been evaluated thouroghly and processed again. And if you disagree with such practice. You deserve to be injecting under dosed product at the least. If you are not already injecting lead and other lethal products in your x5 theory.

 

[jackmeoff1]

You have yet to make one "intellectual argument" on Meso to date, Whack Off!

This seems to be your baseline when you can't win an argument- insults.

 

[I_know_nothing]

That is what I am pointing out. When he was proved wrong by data he found a way out by using the variables within my protocol to discredit my data. I was FINE with that honestly but here we are now and he acts like those variables shouldn't be considered.

yes, ignore the data that refutes him and support the 1-2 pieces of data that support him (one of which is one statement made by one doctor at one TRT clinic, clearly which is not in an itself comparable to clinical studies)

 

[Burrr]

@Boilermech recently posted bloods done at 24, 48, and 72 hours. His highest numbers were at 72. This contradicted everything I thought i knew about when peak levels occurred.

 

[I_know_nothing]

Flawed? Not by a long shot. You haven't been around here much to know what has been happening here for easily over a decade (not that i have neither but I have sat back and watched, listened then provided my opinion on personal experience on the subject through "TESTING".)

Assuming the human body is indeed metabolically speaking different from subject to subject we have established a safe range of peak results. And nothing has been folk lore here. Everything has been evaluated thouroghly and processed again. And if you disagree with such practice. You deserve to be injecting under dosed product at the least. If you are not already injecting lead and other lethal products in your x5 theory.

the problem is you members discredit every pharma gear blood results posted by members when it's 5x-6x. but if a new member posts 9-10x blood levels from some UGL yall go praising how great the gear is. you can't ignore data that doesn't support your beliefs.

 

[I_know_nothing]

@Boilermech recently posted bloods done at 24, 48, and 72 hours. His highest numbers were at 72. This contradicted everything I thought i knew about when peak levels occurred.

yes i saw that. how has the community's response been? i didn't really read over that thread too much. im interested in how levels may change over a short time period, perhaps 3-6 hours.

i will acknowledge that i admire you for your curiosity. you are one of the few members who have listened to both sides of the argument and provided your thoughts on each. i appreciate your open-mindedness as that's how science should be. if we are closed minded to one believe and one mindset we will never learn or accept anything new.

 

[dper726]

the problem is you members discredit every pharma gear blood results posted by members when it's 5x-6x. but if a new member posts 9-10x blood levels from some UGL yall go praising how great the gear is. you can't ignore data that doesn't support your beliefs.

There isn't enough pharma gear around for testing in this subject. Truth is testosterone is testosterone regardless what brand UGL or big pharma. Yes there are other matters concerning the difference among each but what we are seeking here is Testosterone levels at peak time. Where is the data that doesn't support our research here? Again speaking of peak time analisys.