Why do people advocate high fruit with DNP?

[canucklifter]

I've heard well known industry experts (S2H) cite 'DNP doesn't work without carbs', leading to a recommendation that you eat lots of fruit with DNP (trying to preferentially fill the liver with glycogen via fructose vs. slamming it into cells indiscriminately with glucose).

I don't really understand why this would make sense, or why 'carbohydrates are required for DNP to work'.

- DNP uncouples oxidative phospholyration, making the krebs cycle 'work harder' and waste some of it's generated energy as heat.
- The krebs cycle can be powered by glucose, or fat indirectly via gluconeogenesis. But glucose will be used preferentially, since it doesn't require gluconeogenesis to convert it into usable substrate.

So... if you eat carbs, you have more free glucose. So the krebs cycle uses that for energy. Cool.

But if you don't eat carbs, your body still needs energy. It has nowhere to go but fat to generate substrates for the krebs cycle.

So... wouldn't you burn MORE fat not eating carbohydrates?

More 'anecdotally' - if you don't eat carbs on DNP but maintain your activity levels, your energy needs aren't going to change drastically. Your BMR might get a bit suppressed (if you're not using T3), your NEAT might go down, but you still need pretty much the same energy to live. Since people aren't dropping dead by default when using DNP and just eating fat, it kind of disproves that carbs are needed for it to work. Your body can survive just fine (within reason) on it's body fat stores.

I was trying to find out if some part of the krebs cycle required a compound that could only be derived from carbs. Couldn't find one, because fat can be converted to glucose.

Then I thought... OK, maybe glucose is a more efficient way of providing some substrate, so that per unit of time more fat can be burned. For example if I need spaghetti and pasta sauce to make dinner, and I've got a shit ton of spaghetti (body fat) sitting around but no pasta sauce... if I can get more pasta sauce by either converting spaghetti to sauce (which is slow and expensive), or someone just gives me sauce, I can make dinner a lot faster if someone just gives me sauce. But with DNP it doesn't look like there's a way to just get 'sauce' (sauce being some carb derivative), I can only get sauce and spaghetti at the same time. So if my goal is to get rid of all the spaghetti I have sitting around, I kind of just need to (slowly) convert some of it to sauce.

Any biochemists around that can comment?

 

[Leancuisine]

Not a biochemist. I was under the impression that you needed carbs for the sole purpose of keeping your liver stocked with glycogen, otherwise DNP will eat through it.
I don't think there is a difference in eating carbs, or keto, as long as calories are below TDEE you will lose weight. Maybe lose more water through kept? Just depends on how you feel/respond to each.
Really, I think your best option for weight loss drugs is bronkaid. It won't kill you if you accidentally take too much.

 

[DonQKong]

I thought the entire DNP thing was based around that atp to adp conversion goes haywire. Eating short carbs on DNP will stimulate the conversion more than long carbs or fats/proteins.

Having a spoon of sugar (short carbs) on DNP hits you within minutes. You literally go warm instantly. Chewing bacon (high fat) does not have the same effect as fat needs to be converted to energy first in order to start revving that adp/atp machinery

 

[Leancuisine]

I thought the entire DNP thing was based around that atp to adp conversion goes haywire. Eating short carbs on DNP will stimulate the conversion more than long carbs or fats/proteins.

Having a spoon of sugar (short carbs) on DNP hits you within minutes. You literally go warm instantly. Chewing bacon (high fat) does not have the same effect as fat needs to be converted to energy first in order to start revving that adp/atp machinery

Shit good call. Really good call. Once you burn up ADP welll... rigor mortis is the next step.

Yes it takes some 26 steps to convert fat to glucose. Takes carb like 4 steps I believe.

 

[DonQKong]

Shit good call. Really good call. Once you burn up ADP welll... rigor mortis is the next step.

Yes it takes some 26 steps to convert fat to glucose. Takes carb like 4 steps I believe.

Nice one big boy. I never got the no-carb thing on DNP and although my science is based on bro, I still was able to squeeze out 5 pounds weight loss daily at peak without going catabolic...

 

[JC456]

Mainly cos it'll help you with energy, carbs + water = bueno. So it's for adherence basically.

Eating MORE will never result in higher rates of fat loss.

 

[michaelmmm]

Nice one big boy. I never got the no-carb thing on DNP and although my science is based on bro, I still was able to squeeze out 5 pounds weight loss daily at peak without going catabolic...

Can u explain more. I read ur posts, but I don't quite get it. I'm planning on doing 250mg DNP (while on 600mg test for the entire thing to retain muscle) for a few weeks or 1 months tbh. I might even raise it to 500mg max is possible.

What exactly did u do for that type of weight loss in terms of deficit amount, diet type, mg of DNP ect...?

I sort of understand DNP, but not enough to fully grasp it. Is it better to eat carbs or not?
Appreciate a reply

 

[canucklifter]

But your body can use lipolysis -> gluconeogenesis to generate liver glycogen. Pretty sure some catecholamines specifically increase hepatic gluconeogenesis (glucos creation from fat in liver)

@JC456 - that makes a lot of sense, that it's an adherence thing. B/c I think (but can't remember the source) that liver glycogen is a primary driver of hunger. So a bit of fructose would go a long way

I just put back caffeine and nicotine like it's my job and hunger isn't an issue. Granted it'd be a lot healthier to eat an apple than develop a nicorette habit

 

[canucklifter]

Can u explain more. I read ur posts, but I don't quite get it. I'm planning on doing 250mg DNP (while on 600mg test for the entire thing to retain muscle) for a few weeks or 1 months tbh. I might even raise it to 500mg max is possible.

What exactly did u do for that type of weight loss in terms of deficit amount, diet type, mg of DNP ect...?

I sort of understand DNP, but not enough to fully grasp it. Is it better to eat carbs or not?
Appreciate a reply

5lb weight loss != 5lb fat loss

 

[DonQKong]

What exactly did u do for that type of weight loss in terms of deficit amount, diet type, mg of DNP ect...?

The disclaimer here is that DNP is dangerous, potentially deadly. Treat her very carefully and she will yield results like no other drug. Overdo it and its hospital and removed muscles. Or death.

I've used it for years and if you read my bulgarian summer cut thread in the log section, you'll see how I dropped 5lbs per day consistently over several days without my lifts going down.

Spend a few months with it, experiment with carbs and fats and DNP dosages and exercise and calories and find out what works for you. For me, the following worked :

High carb, close to BMR, an hour of exercise daily (you burn way more energy on DNP while exercising...it's like running a manual shift car with the clutch half ways down: you rip through a shitload of gas without getting that far)

My fat came off so quickly, one morning I woke up, I was like hey where did those abs come from. They weren't there last night [emoji23]

Insane diet drug. But the sides aren't worth it . The are crippling. . Sibutramine is the way to go these days for me.

DQ

 

[JC456]

High carb, close to BMR, an hour of exercise daily (you burn way more energy on DNP while exercising...it's like running a manual shift car with the clutch half ways down: you rip through a shitload of gas without getting that far)

I think this is a great point btw @DonQKong eating at around maintenance, keeping active and letting the DNP do the bulk of the work is really the way to go.

 

[Atleast200at8percent]

you

Nice one big boy. I never got the no-carb thing on DNP and although my science is based on bro, I still was able to squeeze out 5 pounds weight loss daily at peak without going catabolic...

You keep saying 5 pounds a day, what exactly did you take?

 

[DonQKong]

you

You keep saying 5 pounds a day, what exactly did you take?

Before you go popping 400mg per day, please read through my "watch me go King Kong" and "Bulgarian summer cut" thread. It's gonna leave you sitting and gurning sweating in a pool of you your own body fluids.

I researched a lot before I took the DNP train the first time, and even after all the research, I still ended up thinking one day that I was boiling to death and needing to call an ambulance . It was fucking horrible. Don't go there.

DQ

 

[canucklifter]

Before you go popping 400mg per day, please read through my "watch me go King Kong" and "Bulgarian summer cut" thread. It's gonna leave you sitting and gurning sweating in a pool of you your own body fluids.

I researched a lot before I took the DNP train the first time, and even after all the research, I still ended up thinking one day that I was boiling to death and needing to call an ambulance . It was fucking horrible. Don't go there.

DQ

I can't imagine Tren and DNP together. Both cause night sweats and insomnia, can only imagine how that'd feel together.

I'm 10 days in to DNP. 200mg day 1-4, 400mg since then. 600 today since it's the weekend and I wanted to see how it felt. I'm sleeping like a baby and sweat, while more than normal when doing cardio, is fine otherwise.

Did you get your E2 levels checked on your Bulgaria cycle? You weren't using a ton of adex, and a high E2 would just magnify the DNP sides, plus cause massive weight swings as water got pulled off. Just wondering if some of the hell people go through is an interaction like elevated E2+DNP, since I'm 8 weeks natty and the DNP sides are cake

 

[lukk3395]

Can u explain more. I read ur posts, but I don't quite get it. I'm planning on doing 250mg DNP (while on 600mg test for the entire thing to retain muscle) for a few weeks or 1 months tbh. I might even raise it to 500mg max is possible.

What exactly did u do for that type of weight loss in terms of deficit amount, diet type, mg of DNP ect...?

I sort of understand DNP, but not enough to fully grasp it. Is it better to eat carbs or not?
Appreciate a reply

the easiest way to explain this is: the body uses carbs easier than fats therefore you have a higher metabolism when your kerbs cycle is triggered by glucose rather than by lipids. If you are keto, lets say you will burn 500 kcal and all of them will come from fat, but with carbs you will burn lets say 850. 500 from carbs and 350 from fats. Your body can metabolize carbs faster than fats and that makes you burn more calories therefore lose more fat. The source of energy that the body is using (glucose or fats) does not mean you are burning more or less fat because restoring glycogen storage also burns more calories and has an impact on the resting metabolic rate.

 

[DonQKong]

I'm 10 days in to DNP. 200mg day 1-4, 400mg since then. 600 today since it's the weekend and I wanted to see how it felt. I'm sleeping like a baby and sweat, while more than normal when doing cardio, is fine otherwise.

Did you get your E2 levels checked on your Bulgaria cycle? You weren't using a ton of adex, and a high E2 would just magnify the DNP sides, plus cause massive weight swings as water got pulled off. Just wondering if some of the hell people go through is an interaction like elevated E2+DNP, since I'm 8 weeks natty and the DNP sides are cake

Wouldnt rule out weak DNP if you are doing 600 without sweating more than normal outside the gym. On 600, my piss was brown, my head rushing, I was chewing my face off gurning, went through 2 pillows every night, slept on towels, couldn't even go out. Thank fuck I have a gym and a squat rack at home, cause you could swim on my floor after my workouts.

My E2 is problematic on any compound that converts. Bloat is my main problem, but no, I don't get to bloods easily in this neck of the woods. Drawing water I part and parcel of DNP. I gain 10 lbs the first 3-4 of DNP, all water, then the weight starts coming off. After a DNP cycle, 10 lbs of water comes off ... just around the day 3-4 mark.

Interesting hypothesis that high E2 would cause stronger sides on DNP, but I don't see that happens if you use the atp/adp conversion as your pillar DNP effect ... I'm sure someone has a more educated view on it than me though

 

[michaelmmm]

The disclaimer here is that DNP is dangerous, potentially deadly. Treat her very carefully and she will yield results like no other drug. Overdo it and its hospital and removed muscles. Or death.

I've used it for years and if you read my bulgarian summer cut thread in the log section, you'll see how I dropped 5lbs per day consistently over several days without my lifts going down.

Spend a few months with it, experiment with carbs and fats and DNP dosages and exercise and calories and find out what works for you. For me, the following worked :

High carb, close to BMR, an hour of exercise daily (you burn way more energy on DNP while exercising...it's like running a manual shift car with the clutch half ways down: you rip through a shitload of gas without getting that far)

My fat came off so quickly, one morning I woke up, I was like hey where did those abs come from. They weren't there last night [emoji23]

Insane diet drug. But the sides aren't worth it . The are crippling. . Sibutramine is the way to go these days for me.

DQ

I'm looking more to lose 1lb a day to be honest with u. About 6-7 lbs or little more than that a week is pretty dang good IMO. I'd be aiming for 2.5-3k weeks or a Month tops (or honestly till I feel I lost enough, which could be earlier).

As of right now I train in the gym for about 1.5/2H with PPL splits. Sometimes twice or once a week depending on my life. I plan to keep doing that alongside maybe 5-10 minutes slow walk cardio at the end when I'm on DNP. I was going to take proper dosed 250mg caps only each day, but I might consider going up to 500 after a week depending on how the results feel and body is.

I really don't think I need to lose more than 25lbs tops if that. I've been bulking on 5400 cals should I say (failed bulking cause I can't reach that number often and I end up around 4000-4500 mostly) and I've not been gaining on it or I might be +/- Breaking even on the scale with the 2H work out sessions. So What do u think is a good stance to in terms of cals to cut on? 3500, 4000, 4500? I was thinking of doing 3500 to begin with paired with my routine + cardio on 250mg DNP for hopefully 1lb fat loss or more per day. Diet consisting of 200-225g Protein and the rest carbs/fat mixture.

PS: I know all the risks. I won't go beyond 500 and I'm only running 600mg test e along side it with proper adex OFC. I will be drinking water 3x more than I'm eating through out the day and I will take 2-3 strong anti ox alongside it.

Also, is it better to take it in the morning or at night for 1 pill and if u did 2 of them, would u split it up morning/night

 

[tenpoundsleft]

I'm looking more to lose 1lb a day to be honest with u. About 6-7 lbs or little more than that a week is pretty dang good IMO. I'd be aiming for 2.5-3k weeks or a Month tops (or honestly till I feel I lost enough, which could be earlier).

As of right now I train in the gym for about 1.5/2H with PPL splits. Sometimes twice or once a week depending on my life. I plan to keep doing that alongside maybe 5-10 minutes slow walk cardio at the end when I'm on DNP. I was going to take proper dosed 250mg caps only each day, but I might consider going up to 500 after a week depending on how the results feel and body is.

I really don't think I need to lose more than 25lbs tops if that. I've been bulking on 5400 cals should I say (failed bulking cause I can't reach that number often and I end up around 4000-4500 mostly) and I've not been gaining on it or I might be +/- Breaking even on the scale with the 2H work out sessions. So What do u think is a good stance to in terms of cals to cut on? 3500, 4000, 4500? I was thinking of doing 3500 to begin with paired with my routine + cardio on 250mg DNP for hopefully 1lb fat loss or more per day. Diet consisting of 200-225g Protein and the rest carbs/fat mixture.

PS: I know all the risks. I won't go beyond 500 and I'm only running 600mg test e along side it with proper adex OFC. I will be drinking water 3x more than I'm eating through out the day and I will take 2-3 strong anti ox alongside it.

Also, is it better to take it in the morning or at night for 1 pill and if u did 2 of them, would u split it up morning/night

DNP has a 36 hour half-life so I don't think it'll make much of a difference if you take it in split doses.

 

[LordSamuilo]

Also, is it better to take it in the morning or at night for 1 pill and if u did 2 of them, would u split it up morning/night

If your taking 500mg split the dose . It does have a 36hr half life so as far as effectiveness you won't see any better results going way or the other , but what you will see a difference in is sides effects taking the whole dose at once ... I've went up to 600 before and was splitting it 3x a day and sides were rough but not unbearable , then was busy one day and took them all at once and literally thought I was gonna die , sick as fuck all day and I've never sweated that much in my life , ridiculous ! I've heard other people have the same experience , so its just antidotal but seems to be a common thing ...

 

[ProfessorKolchek]

Can anyone pm me a source that ships international? Thanks