WTF? Why is there such a worldwide hatred for steroids?

Okay fair enough. You have a point there. But they will drastically reduce the demand for other diabetes and weight loss medication to the point that those drugs might not even exist in 30 years.

At the end of the day I don't see a point in humanity's future where we don't need drugs to survive. A lot of drugs are "on it forever" drugs like antidepressants. Once the drugs become generic there will be a ton of competition to knock the prices down and the profit margins will be razor thin like they are for SSRIs.
For sure.

I think on the whole big pharma is a MAJOR net positive for humanity. I just think that a robust system that is more socialized could be better. Not without it's own challenges and downsides, of course, but drug development being decoupled from profit incentives and instead allowing it to be fully aligned to public health would, if implemented properly, be an even larger win. At least in my opinion.
 
I just think that a robust system that is more socialized could be better. Not without it's own challenges and downsides, of course, but drug development being decoupled from profit incentives and instead allowing it to be fully aligned to public health would, if implemented properly, be an even larger win. At least in my opinion.
IMO, so long as we live in a world with scarcity the profit incentive is the be all end all and has worked extremely well and is unnecessarily demonized.

However this argument is gonna open Pandora's Box so I will agree to disagree :)
 
Didn’t it come out that the supersize me guys health in the doc was actually because of his alcoholism? He admitted to being a severe alcoholic during that time period. He never disclosed it during the doc so basically invalidates the entire thing, alcoholism is always going to be worse than the food choices he made during that doc.
 
I didn't know this, first time I saw it was a very long time ago. Thanks for the Info, damn learning something everyday
 
I think folks tend to get a little angry at big pharma for a variety of reasons. Take for instance- I had a little bit of a heart issue about 4 years ago. It wasn't gear, because I wasn't using it at the moment. Was it Covid 19 vaccine? IDK, I can't see into it, but maybe, I see a lot of reports being released, showing a massive list of 'possible' side effects.

So of course I went through the entire procedure of seeing cardiologists and getting ECGs and prescription medicine. Some of the medicine prescribed will keep your heart from undergoing cardiac remodeling (not a good thing, you don't want your heart reshaping itself). One of these medicines is called Corlanor, when I hit the pharmacy, they dropped the bill on me like it was no thing at all--$1000 for 30 days worth. I know the pharmacist doesn't know what I do for a living, they don't know I absolutely CAN NOT afford that, so it's not the pharmacist's fault. The thing is, even if that medicine will save your life, big pharma doesn't care, they'll let you DIE, just because you don't have the kind of insane money they're selling things for. Corlanor shouldn't cost $1000 . . .

I think it's this kind of thing people get upset over. Now in my example, I hit up Good Rx and got the price dropped to $30, took it, along with the other meds and my heart is back to 100%. A LOT of people don't know that's possible though, and they'll scramble to try to get the money, or suffer and possibly die.
3/4 of big pharma fears are overstated and some are even borderline tinfoil hat stuff. Do a 2 to 3 year stint in pharma econs and you will figure out that any opportunity to make a sale isn't discouraged. Are you really telling me pharma will stifle lifting restriction on otc AAS when they can make 12 times the sales they are making now selling AAS and PCT stuff?

Again i will continue to point out, I don't see mutiple fora dedicated to harm reduction concerning eating a burger of making fries. No sites dedicated to measuring how many transfats go into the meat.
Every 4th of july weekend I don't see posts about how to avoid nitrosamine levels in grilled meat.
But Ghoul and Readalot have burnt themselves thin just to educate some of y'all on filtering and testing. That tells you exactly why there is more concern for steroids than or food.. Steroids aren't schedule I. Any doc can write it for you.
Perception is what it is. You all have the way you perceive many things that cannot be changed.
Many perceive GLP users a certain way. Acceptance of that crowd has been more about tolerance due to sharing the same drug dealers, and not really acceptance of their choices and lifestyles.
The general public frowns on Fat people that use GLP1s too. The public is what it is..
 
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This is what google says. I think it's fair to say both industries have contributed to the rise of it.
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Not trying to argue but Google is feeding on First world centric research. Like I mentioned TB in my example, that is a clue. Beyond TB, Indian, and Ghanaian and Kenyan MDR bacteria is not primarily due to Farms :D :D . I am not basing my comment on google search
 
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Like people take Flagyl the same way you would Take lomotil here. You have a cough, great, here's some amoxil. It's persisting, get some augmentin from the local 'chemist shop'. Many times people have enough anecdotal knowledge to know what to take, especially for strept and stuff like malaria. The problem is that they never complete the proper cycle. Then there is the issue of fake underdosed meds. Combine all this with sick folks all gathering in a hospital and boom.. nasty strains are borne and spread. Antibiotics in animals is a more recent development (10-15 years)
 
Not trying to argue but Google is feeding on First world centric research. Like I mentioned TB in my example, that is a clue. Beyond TB, Indian, and Ghanaian and Kenyan MDR bacteria is not primarily due to Farms :D :D . I am not basing my comment on google search
I just can't be bothered to go down a rabbit hole to get into the nuances of it; it's just not something that interests me that much, no disrespect. I agree that not every antibiotic resistant microbe is a direct result of agriculture.
 
3/4 of big pharma fears are overstated and some are even borderline tinfoil hat stuff. Do a 2 to 3 year stint in pharma econs and you will figure out that any opportunity to make a sale isn't discouraged. Are you really telling me pharma will stifle lifting restriction on otc AAS when they can make 12 times the sales they are making now selling AAS and PCT stuff?

Again i will continue to point out, I don't see mutiple fora dedicated to harm reduction concerning eating a burger of making fries. No sites dedicated to measuring how many transfats go into the meat.
Every 4th of july weekend I don't see posts about how to avoid nitrosamine levels in grilled meat.
But Ghoul and Readalot have burnt themselves thin just to educate some of y'all on filtering and testing. That tells you exactly why there is more concern for steroids than or food.. Steroids aren't schedule I. Any doc can write it for you.
Perception is what it is. You all have the way you perceive many things that cannot be changed.
Many perceive GLP users a certain way. Acceptance of that crowd has been more about tolerance due to sharing the same drug dealers, and not really acceptance of their choices and lifestyles.
The general public frowns on Fat people that use GLP1s too. The public is what it is..
A lot of truth here. It's easy for someone to say they hate anything, but it's often misdirected. It's like someone saying they 'hate' a certain company, the company they work for. More than likely it's the people they work with, not the company itself--the company is just a name.

When I had my little issue, I thought about this stuff alot. Was I upset? You bet, I was f@#$% pissed! Not only did it turn out to be expensive as hell, I had to get through the insurance I had first, they wouldn't approve it because, "It isn't medically necessary" BS! They didn't want to approve it because-
o: It's very expensive
o: It's very expensive
o: It's very expensive
You should've seen the hoops I had to jump through in order to get the thing approved, including writing up a complaint against them to the proper governance in a completely different state, because that's where they operate out of. Oh it worked, they approved it after that.

I don't necessarily hate big pharma over it. I have a wound that I won't forget about over it though. If I had to be upset, it's over the system and directed at that system. I do think the US needs health care reform.
 
Didn’t it come out that the supersize me guys health in the doc was actually because of his alcoholism? He admitted to being a severe alcoholic during that time period. He never disclosed it during the doc so basically invalidates the entire thing, alcoholism is always going to be worse than the food choices he made during that doc.
His bloodwork was all good before he went on that fast food bender though wasn't it? I can't remember the details it's been a long time.
 
His bloodwork was all good before he went on that fast food bender though wasn't it? I can't remember the details it's been a long time.
After five days, Spurlock gained 9.5 pounds (4.3 kg) (from 185.5 to about 195 pounds). It was not long before he found himself experiencing depression, and he claimed that his bouts of it, along with lethargy and headaches, could be relieved by eating a McDonald's meal. His gastroenterologist, Dr. Lisa Ganjhu, described him as being "addicted".

On Day 21, Spurlock had heart palpitations and liver damage. His internist, Dr. Daryl Isaacs, advised him to stop what he was doing immediately to avoid any serious health problems. He compared Spurlock with the protagonist played by Nicolas Cage in the movie Leaving Las Vegas, who intentionally drinks himself to death in a matter of weeks. Despite this warning Spurlock decided to continue the experiment.

On March 2nd, Spurlock reached day 30 and achieved his goal. In thirty days he "supersized" his meals nine times (five of which were in Texas, four in New York City). His physicians were surprised at the degree of deterioration in Spurlock's health.

A 2006 study on fast food consumption by healthy individuals inspired by the documentary showed that, while the heavy diet does affect liver enzymes, it did not show the same dangerous effect shown in the documentary. This suggested that the extreme reaction must have had another cause,[28][29] and in 2017, Spurlock – who previously told his doctors he did not drink – admitted to copious amounts of alcohol consumption during the making of the film,
which some critics, such as documentary filmmaker Phelim McAleer, have argued may better account for his liver issues and other health problems, since he had only changed his diet and not his alcohol intake during the experiment.[30]


To answer you question:

Even if they did go up from previously being at a normal level it's because of the alcohol. The claim that he got ED and lethargy from McDonald's in less than 30 days - sure fine. Whatever.

Severe mood swings and sudden depression and your liver getting fucked up to that degree (in 30 days!) - makes no sense.
 
After five days, Spurlock gained 9.5 pounds (4.3 kg) (from 185.5 to about 195 pounds). It was not long before he found himself experiencing depression, and he claimed that his bouts of it, along with lethargy and headaches, could be relieved by eating a McDonald's meal. His gastroenterologist, Dr. Lisa Ganjhu, described him as being "addicted".

On Day 21, Spurlock had heart palpitations and liver damage. His internist, Dr. Daryl Isaacs, advised him to stop what he was doing immediately to avoid any serious health problems. He compared Spurlock with the protagonist played by Nicolas Cage in the movie Leaving Las Vegas, who intentionally drinks himself to death in a matter of weeks. Despite this warning Spurlock decided to continue the experiment.

On March 2nd, Spurlock reached day 30 and achieved his goal. In thirty days he "supersized" his meals nine times (five of which were in Texas, four in New York City). His physicians were surprised at the degree of deterioration in Spurlock's health.

A 2006 study on fast food consumption by healthy individuals inspired by the documentary showed that, while the heavy diet does affect liver enzymes, it did not show the same dangerous effect shown in the documentary. This suggested that the extreme reaction must have had another cause,[28][29] and in 2017, Spurlock – who previously told his doctors he did not drink – admitted to copious amounts of alcohol consumption during the making of the film,
which some critics, such as documentary filmmaker Phelim McAleer, have argued may better account for his liver issues and other health problems, since he had only changed his diet and not his alcohol intake during the experiment.[30]


To answer you question:

Even if they did go up from previously being at a normal level it's because of the alcohol. The claim that he got ED and lethargy from McDonald's in less than 30 days - sure fine. Whatever.

Severe mood swings and sudden depression and your liver getting fucked up to that degree (in 30 days!) - makes no sense.
Well the negative effect it had on his body was definitely the only thing that made that documentary worth watching.
So did he drink shitloads of alcohol to purposely mess with the results or what?
 
So did he drink shitloads of alcohol to purposely mess with the results or what?
He was an alcoholic and was likely in denial about it at the time. Alcoholics have no clue how much alcohol they are actually drinking day to day and how it affects them. I don't think he made the documentary in bad faith.
 
He was an alcoholic and was likely in denial about it at the time. Alcoholics have no clue how much alcohol they are actually drinking day to day and how it affects them. I don't think he made the documentary in bad faith.
Alright so something caused his health to fall apart during that month.
It was the combination of being a drunk already and then adding 30 days of straight mcdonalds. Unless he was taking something else as well. Maybe dbol.
 
I don't see how steroid use is correlated to better blood pressure or heart health and so on? You are healthy in spite of using steroids, not because of them.
Using steroids typically makes one watch their diet in order to excerpt the maximum benefit from their usage
I don't see how we can be certain that "processed foods" (once again nobody has actually defined WTF they mean by a processed food or "eating clean") caused them to require those interventions
The definition is within the word. Processed is the gradual striping of anything that makes a food harder to digest or carry more benefits. Fibers, vitamins etc and in the case of carbohydrates going from complex to simpler. Think of wheat. Full husk, whole grain, white flour
On the flip side couldn't your friends also reverse this and point it at you to make you look bad?
Cholesterol calcification is pretty much irreversible. And the worst thing about eating processed foods is the addiction. Your taste buds become accustomed to high fat high sugar and everything else tastes like shit
Also, how the hell is using steroids and eating "processed foods" mutually exclusive?
It's not. But it's a good driving force to avoid junk food. I am not talking the occasional dirty burger or sweet. I am talking the 24/7 consumption of pop tarts, cereal with added sugar, fast food etc.
 
For me, its all about the laws. In Europe (Germany specifically) the laws for Steroids are so stupid. Despite having "Geringemenge" (least allowed amount) the police adds a factor of 1.6 by default and sums it all together, so it doesnt matter what and how much you have from A, B and C. In the end they all get added together and you get put into the category as aggressive, dangerous and highly organized criminal with the intend to sell and distribute while in the end you might have just a vial of test or primo at home for your own use as part of TRT.

That makes the instant affiliation of Steroids with extreme criminals so easily.
"Oh youre on TRT? You criminal, a risk for society! How dare you optimize your own health!"

Ironic part is that all the people that use steroids i know of personally are the calmest, most peaceful and friendliest people i've ever met.
 
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