WTF's up with Christianity?

[CyniQ]

I'll admit it. I'm sick of religious people. Pat Robertson (or whatever his name is) wants to assassinate people. Kirk Cameron refuses to do his job and "act" like an immoral person because it's against his religion. Does he quit his job? NO. He makes the Executive Producers of Growing Pains quit theirs. Sorry I saw the E! True Hollywood Story today.

Jesus never tried to force secular leaders to conform to his ideals. On the contrary, he regarded himself as no part of the world. Having no part in politics of his day. So why do Christians and other religious leaders insist on getting involved in political controversies. Attempting to make the entire world conform to their ideal. It's ridiculous. And it makes those of us with morals AND common sense look bad.

 

[Bob Smith]

Pat Robertson (or whatever his name is) wants to assassinate people.

While I think Chavez is a piece of crap and it would serve the Venezuelan people well to get rid of him, I think its ridiculous that Robertson said to assasinate Chavez. For a religious leader to call for that goes against everything of the Christian faith.

Jesus never tried to force secular leaders to conform to his ideals. On the contrary, he regarded himself as no part of the world. Having no part in politics of his day.

Jesus blasted the religious and political leaders on a regular basis. You cant read more than a few pages in the Bible before seeing another reference to Jesus denouncing the Pharisees and other leaders. He pointed our the hyprocricy and corruptness of the political and religious leaders all the time. To me, that would be being political.

The first definition of "political" and dictionary.com would very accurately describe many of Jesus's teachings and actions. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=political

So why do Christians and other religious leaders insist on getting involved in political controversies.

Because much of what is political is also of spiritual/religious concern. Its their right to get involved, though I think the leaders need to remember the teachings of their faith before they get involved. Robertson clearly stepped WAY outside of Christian teaching with his comments. (I havent seen the entire broadcast to see the whole thing in context).

What about people like Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton? They are supposedly religious leaders that stand up for human rights. I dont think that either one of them can talk more than two sentances without clearly showing their political bias. IMO, its one thing for a religious leader to comment on political topics, its another thing altogether when they actively work for political purposes. Jackson and Sharpton are more political than they are religious, at least from everything I have seen of them.

Attempting to make the entire world conform to their ideal.

Whats wrong with believing and working towards ideals?

 

[Bob Smith]

Also, I dont think the title of your thread accurately describes the topic of conversation. Its not about Christianity, its about religious leaders (of any faith, really).

 

[CyniQ]

Also, I dont think the title of your thread accurately describes the topic of conversation. Its not about Christianity, its about religious leaders (of any faith, really).

Yeah. I know. It's my feeble attempt at garnering attention to the thread.

Great post BTW. I can't respond fully now. But I will later.

 

[CyniQ]

While Jesus did speak very directly against religious leaders of his day. He made it obvious that he would not become involved in earthly political conflicts. On the one hand the Jewish religious leaders repeatedly tried to trap Jesus into speaking out against the Roman gov't in power at the time. He never did. He never denounced or called for the removal of any leader specifically. But rather criticized the Pharisees as a class for attempting to "lord it over" the common people. Christ's own followers attempted to elevate him to the level of a King. This he refused as well fleeing to the mountains to be alone. Later he told Pilate that his kingdom would be not of this world. John 18:36

I am disgusted by the affinity modern day religious leaders have for politics. As far as I know, it is widely believed that early Christians refused political office, following Jesus' own example. If you want to be a politician. Great. Have at it. But if you claim to be a "man of God" then you need to refrain from openly supporting one political viewpoint over another. Or one political party, or leader, etc.

 

[goldstone_77]

undefinedReligious leaders or Fanatics! They are all human, and capable of anything. Words in holy books, are nothing more than ink on a page.

 

[Beefy]

undefinedReligious leaders or Fanatics! They are all human, and capable of anything. Words in holy books, are nothing more than ink on a page.

Ink that, when read, changes the course of history. Be it Christainity, Islam, Judaism, or any other popular religion; humans are born with the innate desire for religion in some form or another. People need to believe in something.

 

[Beefy]

I'll admit it. I'm sick of religious people.

Religous people are fine, as long as they don't try to force their religion opon me, which puts Patty R. in the same category as Osama BL and cocksuckin' ACLU. They all try to force their beliefs down everyone else's throat.

I like Jesus. He said, (and I loosely paraphrase), "You either like me or not. It's up to you." That's a great approach to religions and creeds: Take it or leave it.

 

[MANWHORE]

I like Jesus. He said, (and I loosely paraphrase), "You either like me or not. It's up to you." That's a great approach to religions and creeds: Take it or leave it.

I used to hang out with J.C. when i was younger,he's a cool cat

 

[Kayz]

All this goddamn religion talk as of late is giving me a headache....when can we talk about bitches and hoes???

 

[Grizzly]

Maybe you should hang out on outlaw more often. Until Cyniq and I took over the conversational reigns, the place was filled with constant gay jokes, penis jokes and all around low brow "humor"...if you could consider any of it funny. It sort of made me ashamed to say that those people were my online friends. Stupid people suck!

 

[goldstone_77]

ROTFLMAO!!

Maybe you should hang out on outlaw more often. Until Cyniq and I took over the conversational reigns, the place was filled with constant gay jokes, penis jokes and all around low brow "humor"...if you could consider any of it funny. It sort of made me ashamed to say that those people were my online friends. Stupid people suck!

 

[Kayz]

Maybe you should hang out on outlaw more often. Until Cyniq and I took over the conversational reigns, the place was filled with constant gay jokes, penis jokes and all around low brow "humor"...if you could consider any of it funny. It sort of made me ashamed to say that those people were my online friends. Stupid people suck!

So I'm not your online friend.....and I suck because I'm stupid????

 

[CyniQ]

Religous people are fine, as long as they don't try to force their religion opon me, which puts Patty R. in the same category as Osama BL and cocksuckin' ACLU. They all try to force their beliefs down everyone else's throat.

I like Jesus. He said, (and I loosely paraphrase), "You either like me or not. It's up to you." That's a great approach to religions and creeds: Take it or leave it.

You're right. There's nothing wrong with religious people per se. I just wish that there were more intelligent religious people. I'm sick of the stupid ones that make me look bad. And I'm sick of religious leaders pushing politics, because they make me look bad too. If you think that Jesus loves one political party more than the other. Or that he cares on that level at all... Please explain it to me. Because in my view, preaching politics is about the same as praying for a particular outcome at a football game.

 

[Kayz]

Okay, I'll join the discussion so that I'm not "stupid".

My girlfriends family walks on water...adn if you don't believe them just ask them. They eat, sleep, breathe, and shit religion 24/7. She and I are just the opposite. It's not that I'm against organized religion, but rather that I cannot stand the hypocrisy associated with all of the religious zealots that preach to me day in and day out.

Here are some examples:

1) My g/f's step mom and I got into a "heated duscussion" about whether or not God actually exists. I personally believe in God, but I don't feel that I need to go to a building and talk to a total stranger and give him money in order for Jeses to accept me. Anyways, she asked me why I didn't believe in God (I was playing devils advocate here). I said "well, I have a science background and I usually require physical evidence before I believe something wholeheartedly." I then asked her "why do you believe in God?" She says "...because he's changed my life." I said "how so?". She said..."he just has, I can't explain it." I say "if you can't explain it than how do you know that it was God that changed your life and not your own inner desires to change who you are for the better?" She says..."you can just 'FEEL' God's presence all around you...haven't you ever felt God around you?" I said "no, I don't think I ever have". And she says "I pity you."

YOU PITY ME???? Why, because I don't worship your God day and night, all day every day???

2) 2 years ago, my g/f and I were at her mom's and stepdad's house for thanksgiving dinner. Now her mom and her stepdad are the biggest hypocrites in the fucking world. I sat there for a fucking hour listening to her stepdad preach about how he knew for a fact that all of the social woes in this country are a result of TV, music, and video games. I tend to blame it on family values and a lack of parental guidance/supervision, but that's a whole other discussion. Anyways, this dude proceeds to tell me that because I curse, drink, and don't attend church on a regular basis that my soul is probably damned to hell for all eternity. That pissed me off, so I responded with "well, I'll meet you there". And he says, how do you figure that?? I say "because I'm not the one on my third marriage, I've never committed adultery, and I've never raised a son that ended up in jail for beating his woman up......so you are by no means perfect".

It is shit like that that makes me despise certain aspects of religion more and more as time goes on. I hear one thing, adn I see something totally different.

 

[Bob Smith]

Sorry to hear about your situation, Kayz. I cant say that I admire you for dating a girl where you and her family (it seems) dont get along much and have such glaring differences. Difference in faith is one of the major reasons why divorces occur.

I think all people are hypocrits some some degree or another. Im a Christian and I believe that certain things are right and wrong. Do I still partake and do things that I believe are wrong? Absolutely, Im human and have human frailties and weaknesses. Im also not a Christian that feels the need to try to convert people or approach them on the street, those people annoy me just as much as they annoy you. I keep most of my religious talk amongst my friends and family.

I personally believe in God, but I don't feel that I need to go to a building and talk to a total stranger and give him money in order for Jeses to accept me.

I agree completely. Is your gfs family Catholic? I have a lot of issues with most organized religion, especially Catholicism. I dont feel the need to get into that here. One main point though is that not once did Jesus ever teach that "church" was a physical place with walls, stained glass and some holy water. The "church" is the body of believers; its the people, not the place. Jewel and I have church at our house when we have another couple over for a Bible study. I dont remember the exact phrasing, but Jesus said "whenever two or more believers are gathered, I am there with you." Some people dont even know that, and some sects of Christianity seem to completely ignore that principle. Im not opposed to organized religion, but I think that most people/organizations tend to screw it up. But most "believers" are "Sunday Christians" ("Saturday Jews", pick your day and religion) so most people dont really care all that much about what goes on inside the building.

Going back to what I quoted from you, as Im sure you are aware, the requirements to be saved are simply to believe in God, that Jesus is the Son of God, and the He died for your sins. Thats it. Its really not that complicated. A lot of people seem to link being saved with your actions, with how much money you give, whether you go to confession, and on and on and on. If you read the teachings of Jesus none of those are requirements to be saved or will affect what happens after you die.

 

[Kayz]

No, her family and I get along fine. We don't really bring the whole religion thing up because we know we have different opinions. My problem with it is that sometimes I feel that they think they are better than me because they go to church 2 times a week and I don't. My g/f and I share most of the same views in that she too sees the hypocrisy in religion. They are not catholic....thank god for that!! (see, I'm a hypocrit too....I just thanked God) I never really liked Catholicism because I never understood why it was okay to get drunk, high, and fuck all day every day sunday - friday, but then go to confession on Saturday and all is forgotten...just to start over on sunday.

Have you ever seen the movie "stigmata"? It is a really good movie and the main message behind it is that an individual does not need a priest, a building, money, and offerings in order to have a close and personal relationship with God...they just need to accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior and acknowledge that he is the "bridge" to heaven. In the movie, the phrase "lift a stone and you will find me, lift a log and I'll be there" (or something like that) is repeated over and over. And what they are saying is that Jesus is always with you and you do not need to go to a church in order to find him.

And that has always been my stance on religion. Just because I don't go to church does not make me a bad person. Just because I dont' thank God for the green grass in my front yard does not mean I'm not thankful.