My new saliva test results...

[jasonshadow]

I am currently using Dr. Crislers recommendations of 100g of Test Cyp. and 250i.u X 2 per week. I am also using 1 grain of Armour per day as well. I mostly did the saliva to test my adrenals and thyroid. The HRT did not help all my symptoms. I still have anxiety, get very dizzy w/o food every hour, cannot concentrate, brain fog, etc.

Here are my results:

Free Cortisol
7-8am 20 (13-24) Normal
11-Noon 3 (5-10) Depressed
4-5pm 2 (3-8) Depressed
11-12am 4 (1-4) Normal

DHEA 3 (3-10) Borderline

Marginal HPA Axis performance during the day may be assocaited with suboptimal hypothalamic pacing of adrenas. Adrenal support suggested.

Minimal Cortisol Rhythm; cortisol augmentation and anabolic support suggested. Day tiem glycemic control and adrenal support suggested; Anabolic enhancement suggested; DHEA or Pregnenolone augmentation.

Thyroid
fTSH 171 (26-85)
fT4 .33 (.17-.42)
fT3 .44 (.28-1.10)

E2 Estradiol 17 (1-3)
P1 Progesterone 182 (5-195)
Free Testosterone 130 (60-110)

 

[jasonshadow]

Any suggestions?

 

[jasonshadow]

seriously.....no one has any comments?

 

[carbonium]

I am currently using Dr. Crislers recommendations of 100g of Test Cyp. and 250i.u X 2 per week. I am also using 1 grain of Armour per day as well. I mostly did the saliva to test my adrenals and thyroid. The HRT did not help all my symptoms. I still have anxiety, get very dizzy w/o food every hour, cannot concentrate, brain fog, etc.

Here are my results:

Free Cortisol
7-8am 20 (13-24) Normal
11-Noon 3 (5-10) Depressed
4-5pm 2 (3-8) Depressed
11-12am 4 (1-4) Normal

DHEA 3 (3-10) Borderline

Marginal HPA Axis performance during the day may be assocaited with suboptimal hypothalamic pacing of adrenas. Adrenal support suggested.

Minimal Cortisol Rhythm; cortisol augmentation and anabolic support suggested. Day tiem glycemic control and adrenal support suggested; Anabolic enhancement suggested; DHEA or Pregnenolone augmentation.

Thyroid
fTSH 171 (26-85)
fT4 .33 (.17-.42)
fT3 .44 (.28-1.10)

E2 Estradiol 17 (1-3)
P1 Progesterone 182 (5-195)
Free Testosterone 130 (60-110)

Free cortisol saliva tests can be tricky. If you or the lab messes up the sample times then your tests will be messed up.

Are you sure your Estradiol is correct? Don't you mean 1.7? As you would be off the charts at 17 for a saliva test. You don't mention taking any Armidex (anastrozole)
Also Armour should be taken in divided doses ( half dose twice a day ) as the T3's half life is short. Have you tried cutting out the Armour for 24-48 hours and see if your dizzy, fog issues go away. If they go away within 12-24 hours you might have trouble with the T3. You can start off at 1/4 grain then increase slowly.

1 grain of Armour was way too much for me to tolerate and I had low T3, T4. Once I dropped down my Armour I felt 1000% better 24/7.

Also if your on armour check your basil temp. That's your under arm temp when you just wake up in the morning. 97.8-98 is a good range to shoot for. You really need a calibrated mercury-in-glass thermometer.

 

[jasonshadow]

I currently use Armour in divided dosages.

My Estradiol read 17 not 1.7. could this be correct?

 

[carbonium]

I currently use Armour in divided dosages.

My Estradiol read 17 not 1.7. could this be correct?

That would be pretty high. If your Estradiol is that far off the charts then you really need to get on some ARIMIDEX (anastrozole) You should target your estradiol to mid normal range. Your test is converting to estradiol and needs to be corrected ASAP. Too high and you could end up bloated, with bitch tits and a host of other problems. Where is your doc? If your doing this yourself you need to get a good doc.

I'm at .8 (range is .5-1.5) using 200mg test cyp per week and .5mg Armidex every day. You might need (.25mg every other day) to (.5mg every day) to balance out. Everyone is different but you really need to get this in check right away or your going to feel like shit.

http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-130c.shtml

 

[pmgamer18]

I don't what to start anythig here but saliva tests for E' s and Testosterone or any hormones are not any good. Saliva tests are good for Cortisol. Many Dr.'s will say this time and time again. I have seen men shown to be very high on T levels doing a Saliva tests and there blood test came back good.

 

[jasonshadow]

Yes, I do not believe my test./estrogen levels are accurate. I have had multiple blood/urine test that all show estrogen to be normal. I do however believe the results about my cortisol. I am considering getting on something like Isocort since adequate cortisol levels are needed to transport thyroid hormones from the blood to the cells.


My TSH is very high so I still think 1 grain of Armour is still too low.

 

[pmgamer18]

Yes, I do not believe my test./estrogen levels are accurate. I have had multiple blood/urine test that all show estrogen to be normal. I do however believe the results about my cortisol. I am considering getting on something like Isocort since adequate cortisol levels are needed to transport thyroid hormones from the blood to the cells.


My TSH is very high so I still think 1 grain of Armour is still too low.

Yes you could have Adrenal Fatigue I just finished the book "Adrenal Fatiuge" and started on some supplements doing a B-Complex, Vit. C 2000 mgs. and a Adrenal Stress End Formual 60 days ago. I started taking my Temp. 3 times a day and charting it. My blood Cortisol was 8 on my test before I did this. My average temp was 97.4 when I started now in the last 13 days it is 98.4. My lalst cortisol test is up to 11.5 at 8am. So now my Dr. is letting me try Isorcort but told me only one tablet a day in the morning. So we will see how it goes.
Here are some links.
http://www.drrind.com/tempgraph.asp#directions
I use this to take my temp.
http://www.wilsonsthyroidsyndrome.com/HowAreTempsMeasured.htm
I found this site to be dam good on this problem.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

 

[jasonshadow]

Yes you could have Adrenal Fatigue I just finished the book "Adrenal Fatiuge" and started on some supplements doing a B-Complex, Vit. C 2000 mgs. and a Adrenal Stress End Formual 60 days ago. I started taking my Temp. 3 times a day and charting it. My blood Cortisol was 8 on my test before I did this. My average temp was 97.4 when I started now in the last 13 days it is 98.4. My lalst cortisol test is up to 11.5 at 8am. So now my Dr. is letting me try Isorcort but told me only one tablet a day in the morning. So we will see how it goes.
Here are some links.
http://www.drrind.com/tempgraph.asp#directions
I use this to take my temp.
http://www.wilsonsthyroidsyndrome.com/HowAreTempsMeasured.htm
I found this site to be dam good on this problem.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

thanks for the advice. I have always wondered about Dr. Wilsons products. Have you tried them and if so, are they any different than products like Isocort?

 

[pmgamer18]

thanks for the advice. I have always wondered about Dr. Wilsons products. Have you tried them and if so, are they any different than products like Isocort?

I feel Isocort is the same thing as adrenal glandular products but better so all you need to add is 1/4 tsp sea salt, Vit C, B-Complex and I forgot to tell you about doing Relaxation Response here is a link I do this in the morning first thing when I get out of bed for 20 min.'s and in the last after noon this gives my adrenal's a big rest. It's in the book Adrenal Fatigue. When you get good at doing this you can do it anywhere on a bus in the john at work.
http://www.ucop.edu/humres/eap/relaxationrespone.html
If you think you can get into doing this get the book.
I wish some of the others that have this problem would give some input I am just starting to treat this and because I am Hypopituitary may need to do this for life. But my Dr. has me doing Isocort now one tablet to start first thing in the morning I got from this site.
http://www.vitaminmd.com/isocort.htm

 

[1cc]

I still have anxiety, get very dizzy w/o food every hour, cannot concentrate, brain fog, etc.

Here are my results:

Free Cortisol
7-8am 20 (13-24) Normal
11-Noon 3 (5-10) Depressed
4-5pm 2 (3-8) Depressed
11-12am 4 (1-4) Normal

DHEA 3 (3-10) Borderline

This is Adrenal Fatigue as confirmed by your symptoms and saliva cortisol test. You need to improve your cortisol levels as well as DHEA level. Do you have a blood DHEA Sulfate lab by any chance?

Take Ester-C 1000mg 3 times daily with breakfast, lunch, dinner. Use ONLY the one in the following link, because it has a ratio of vitamin C to bioflavanoids of 2:1 as mentioned by Dr. James Wilson. http://www.puritan.com/pages/file.asp?xs=8FB5CD79728D4898A3B606CF0C68CB57&PID=415&CPID=1115&np=1&lbl=1#label

Use Isocort or Hydrocortisone. Each Isocort pellet contains about 2.5mg cortisol. Take 5mg at 11-noon. If you are also not feeling well at 4-5pm, take 2.5mg. The 5mg at 11-noon should be sufficient. Drink 1/2 teaspoon of salt in a glass of water on rising in the morning. Take 25mg DHEA after breakfast with something oily to aid absorption (I used a tablespoon of olive oil).

I recommend the following books:
1. Diabetes and Hypoglycemia - Michael T. Murray
2. Adrenal Fatigue The 21st Century Stress Syndrome - Dr. James Wilson

This is a list of things I have done in the past for my Adrenal Fatigue.

1. Sleep at 10pm and get 8-10 hours sleep.
2. Do some type of relaxation excercise.
3. Adopt a hypoglycemic diet.
4. Ester-C 1000mg 3 times daily with breakfast, lunch, dinner.
5. Beta Carotene 25,000iu 1 x daily
6. Magnesium Glycinate 200mg 3 x daily
7. Chromium picolinate 200mcg 2 x daily
8. Zinc picolinate 30mg 1 x daily (at noon and not with chromium or
iron)
9. Vitamin E d-alpha-tocophyrol 200mg 3 x daily
10. Panax Ginseng 300mg 7% ginsenocides on empty stomach on rising
11. Drenamin 3 tabs 3 x daily on empty stomach
12. Drenotrophin PMG 1 tab 3 x daily on empty stomach
13. Adrenal Dessicated 1 tab 3 x daily on empty stomach
14. Pantothenic Acid(Vit B5) 500mg 3 x daily
15. Fish Oil softgel 1000mg 3 x daily
16. Calcium citrate 1000mg at bedtime
17. Drink salted water

You can substitute 10,11,12,13,14 for Isocort or hydrocortisone. Each isocort pellet has
about 2.5mg of cortisol.

Hypoglycemic diet:
The most important thing you can do is to eat something small every 2 hours. Make sure you get more protein and lots of vegetables, complex carbs are okay. Do not have anything sweet, even fruit, and check the labels of everything to ensure that there is no sugar. You cannot have white bread, potatoe, white rice, white pasta or anything made with white flour. Before you go to bed, it is very important to have something to eat so that you do not have hypo symptoms during the evening (if you do get hypoglycemic symptoms in the evening).

 

[pmgamer18]

Great post 1cc thanks this is a big help for me.

 

[1cc]

I forgot to mention. Make sure that the 1/2 teaspoon salt you use, is salt without iodine added. Iodine affects the thyroid, so be sure to use salt without Iodine. It will say on the label "This product does not contain Iodide, a necessary nutrient". To salt your food, you can use salt with Iodine added.

I also take a good Multi-Vitamin: Natrol "My Favorite multiple - take one (without iron)".

 

[jasonshadow]

Great Post 1CC.

Do you think I should try all these things before increasing my armour?

 

[1cc]

Do you think I should try all these things before increasing my armour?

Treating your Adrenals will improve the utilization of the thyroid hormones, so treat the Adrenals first and then reassess your thyroid at that point. Like Phil said earlier, blood tests are best for everything except cortisol.

Don't add all these supplements in all at once. Add one supplement every 3 days and notice if it is helping or not. The most important is the Vitamin C, and you should notice a difference taking it. The hydrocortisone will be very helpful. Chromium is very important for blood sugar control and it will help relieve your hypoglycemia. Your anxiety is caused by the hypoglycemia.

 

[jasonshadow]

does anyone know if there are any counterindications with any of the above supplements and 5-HTP? (serotonin precurser)

 

[1cc]

does anyone know if there are any counterindications with any of the above supplements and 5-HTP? (serotonin precurser)

Why are you taking 5-HTP?

 

[Vforcer2]

I forgot to mention. Make sure that the 1/2 teaspoon salt you use, is salt without iodine added. Iodine affects the thyroid, so be sure to use salt without Iodine. It will say on the label "This product does not contain Iodide, a necessary nutrient". To salt your food, you can use salt with Iodine added.

I also take a good Multi-Vitamin: Natrol "My Favorite multiple - take one (without iron)".

1cc, it is my understanding that thyroid hormone cannot be manufactured without Iodine and it is an essential nutrient except in cases of Hashimotos disease. I personally supplement with 50 mg of Iodoral per day based on a consultation with Dr. David Brownstein.

 

[jasonshadow]

Why are you taking 5-HTP?

I take 5-HTP for mild depression and mild OCD. I used to take Paxil which helped greatly but after doing tons of research I will never touch an SSRI again.