lab tests befor and after AndroGel

[Kwirion]

Continuing thread: https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134288630

Results before AndroGel therapy:

PRL (prolactin) 13.84 ng/ml (Reference values: 3.28 - 19.68)
LH 1.9 mIU/ml (2.0 - 12.0)
FSH 3.13 mIU/ml (1.0 - 8.0)
Testosterone 3.45 ng/ml (1.95 - 11.38)

After 2 months on AndroGel 5g (at 9:15 AM, before gel dose) :

PRL 11.56 ng/ml
E2 13,6 pg/ml (< 77.0)
Testosterone 4.15

TSH 0.978 µIU/ml (0.490 - 4.670)
FT3 2.24 pg/ml (1.45 - 3.48)
FT4 1.27 ng/dl (0.71 - 1.85)
DHEA-s 340.0 ng/ml (80 - 560)

Some observations:
I felt better on AndroGel then before without, but I can't say that my energy, libido etc is back at healthy level

Two day ago I tried 5 mg DHEA before sleep - I slept very well, wake up with great "morning wood" and with a lot of energy.
Should I increase AndgoGel to 10g or stay at 5g and add DHEA?

I will visit my urologist in 2 weeks - should I suggest something? maybe Clomid or switch to shots?

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Continuing thread: https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134288630

Results before AndroGel therapy:

PRL (prolactin) 13.84 ng/ml (Reference values: 3.28 - 19.68)
LH 1.9 mIU/ml (2.0 - 12.0)
FSH 3.13 mIU/ml (1.0 - 8.0)
Testosterone 3.45 ng/ml (1.95 - 11.38)

After 2 months on AndroGel 5g (at 9:15 AM, before gel dose) :

PRL 11.56 ng/ml
E2 13,6 pg/ml (< 77.0)
Testosterone 4.15

TSH 0.978 µIU/ml (0.490 - 4.670)
FT3 2.24 pg/ml (1.45 - 3.48)
FT4 1.27 ng/dl (0.71 - 1.85)
DHEA-s 340.0 ng/ml (80 - 560)

Some observations:
I felt better on AndroGel then before without, but I can't say that my energy, libido etc is back at healthy level

Two day ago I tried 5 mg DHEA before sleep - I slept very well, wake up with great "morning wood" and with a lot of energy.

Should I increase AndgoGel to 10g or stay at 5g and add DHEA?

I will visit my urologist in 2 weeks - should I suggest something? maybe Clomid or switch to shots?

Yes - No DHEA. What is it with DHEA? It is of little to no worth. [Increase the T dose after consultation with your doctor.]

How old are you?

What is a "Kwirion?"

 

[Kwirion]

OK, Thank You Doc

I'm 35 years old - I try to eat and live healthy way. No extra stress, I'm just want to know everything and enjoy life at full capacity ;-)

Kwirion - just a accidental puzzle from my first / last name letters - no special meaning.

I asked about DHEA, because the described (one time) dose gave me some relief and additional energy. The "boost" was stronger than from 5g Androgel additional extra evening dose. (one time experiment)

 

[TheOldFart]

When not on TRT, you are supposed to test early morning, when your T level is highest. When using a gel, it only makes sense to also test when your T level is highest. That is 4 hours after application of the Androgel. When I test, I apply my T gel (Testim) at 6 AM and then get blood drawn at 10 AM. That gives me my T peak, so that I can compare it to what I would be if my body were making enough T. It makes no sense to compare your level when you are lowest to what you should be when you are at your highest with natural production.

Forget the DHEA. There are some studies that show that men convert DHEA initially to testosterone and then convert it to estradiol after a few months. You have a good DHEA level now. If you continue DHEA for a few months you will likely find your E2 level going high. Then you will be looking for Arimidex. When I was using DHEA with T gel, my E2 level kept climbing until it was over the upper limit. I stopped the DHEA and E2 dropped again.

Don't do anything different until you test your T level when it is at the peak - 4 hours after Androgel application.

 

[Kwirion]

Androgel description says:
AndroGel(testosterone gel) 1%
"Serum concentrations approximate the steady-state level by the end of the first 24 hours and are at steady state by the second or third day of dosing."

I want to know how (high/low) my level is at most of the time, not at short time peak.

 

[biceps72]

Androgel description says:
AndroGel??(testosterone gel) 1%
"Serum concentrations approximate the steady-state level by the end of the first 24 hours and are at steady state by the second or third day of dosing."

I want to know how (high/low) my level is at most of the time, not at short time peak.

I tend to agree with your logic. Androgel should yield a constant supply of testosterone entering your body.

Total test, bioavailable test numbers and E2 values are very important.

More subjective but important

1. how do you feel?
2. are you strong?
3. has your stamina improved?
4. is youe libido good? (it better be-- androgel excels at this for reasons that I can not explain)
5. erection good quality?
6. orgasms good?

 

[OhNoYo]

Yes - No DHEA. What is it with DHEA? It is of little to no worth. [Increase the T dose after consultation with your doctor.]

How old are you?

What is a "Kwirion?"

U think ppl are getting a placebo effect with the DHEA, Dr. Scally?

 

[Kwirion]

U think ppl are getting a placebo effect with the DHEA, Dr. Scally?

In my humble opinion. Possible DHEA mode of action:
Converts directly / indirectly to DHT and especially estradiol - booth metabolites in right amount are good and important for CNS and libido functionality

"DHEA is also a potent sigma-1 agonist.[3] It is considered a neurosteroid"
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehydroepiandrosterone"]Dehydroepiandrosterone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/FileHEA.png" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/DHEA.png/177px-DHEA.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/0/0b/DHEA.png/177px-DHEA.png[/ame]

DHEA is known to lower elevated (unpleasant) cortisol.

I can speculate following:
Low DHT & e2 and high cortisol are the symptoms of low testosterone. DHEA not cure the cause but sometimes can alleviate the symptoms.

Based on my experiences - after DHEA dose my CNS and dopamine receptors felt very pleased - my "reward system" was positively activated for sure.

 

[Kwirion]

I tend to agree with your logic. Androgel should yield a constant supply of testosterone entering your body.

Total test, bioavailable test numbers and E2 values are very important.

More subjective but important

1. how do you feel?
2. are you strong?
3. has your stamina improved?
4. is youe libido good? (it better be-- androgel excels at this for reasons that I can not explain)
5. erection good quality?
6. orgasms good?

Answers:
(For the first 2 weeks of Androgel for most of the answers results was positive or good enough)

But for the rest of the time (possibly due HPTA inhibition):
1. Better, finally not dead.
2. No, visiting gym kills me for few days
3. Yes, but not enough
4. No, weak. - But weak is better than nothing (before andro)
5. No
6. Weak
(generally I felt better for few hours /4-6/ after gel application, then comes weakness again...)

 

[Kwirion]

Today I have searched my blood tests archive and I have found something:

A test done almost 2 years ago shows a little elevated T-BIL (Total bilirubin): 1.26 (norm 0.0 - 1.0) and SHBG was 15 (norm 11 - 53).

Research this within forum and google suggest that such results may indicate possible problem with low SHGB due liver problems.. It's a possibility..?

 

[Kwirion]

Update:

I have found this thread: https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134237140

MESO-Rx is the great forum with tones of best knowledge! Thanks!

 

[Kwirion]

Update2

Today was my urologist appointment.

He prescribed me bromocriptine for too high PRL and 10g of Androgel QD.