232 lbs to 171 lbs

[6FootFatty]

Why does the BF% matter? If you like the way you look and feel, and the progress you are making, then stay the course. If not, then reconsider what you are doing (diet, sleep, workout) and adjust. IMO you don't have enough muscle to be worrying about getting extremely lean at the moment. You dieted down to a healthy bodyfat level, now it is time to concentrate on putting on more muscle. At your height/weight you are starving yourself at that calorie level. You are going to screw with your metabolism if you continue to eat like that (if you haven't already). Figure out what your TDEE is, add a few hundred calories to that and go from there.

Suggesting I go on a lean bulk? From the calculators I’ve used, my TDEE is around 2600-2700. Been cutting on 2000-2200 calories. The only thing I’m scared of from going on a lean bulk, which I know is unavoidable, is fat gain... I really don’t want to put on that fat again (not that I’m lean by any means now).

Btw, I posted some recent update pics in my last post and the post before on the last page. Let me know what you think.

Any suggestions?

Appreciate your help.

 

[Professor Karman]

Suggesting I go on a lean bulk? From the calculators I’ve used, my TDEE is around 2600-2700. Been cutting on 2000-2200 calories. The only thing I’m scared of from going on a lean bulk, which I know is unavoidable, is fat gain... I really don’t want to put on that fat again (not that I’m lean by any means now).

Any suggestions?

Appreciate your help.

I cannot see you getting to 10% BF weighing any less than 150 to 155 lbs. Do you really want to be 6' and 150lbs?? If you train hard and eat (mostly) healthy food you can put on minimal fat while gaining muscle. Assuming you are 15 to 20% BF now, that will look a lot better on your frame at 200 lbs then it does currently. It will also allow you to enjoy life a little bit..6' grown men shouldn't be eating 2000 calories a day unless they are obese.

 

[6FootFatty]

I cannot see you getting to 10% BF weighing any less than 150 to 155 lbs. Do you really want to be 6' and 150lbs?? If you train hard and eat (mostly) healthy food you can put on minimal fat while gaining muscle. Assuming you are 15 to 20% BF now, that will look a lot better on your frame at 200 lbs then it does currently. It will also allow you to enjoy life a little bit..6' grown men shouldn't be eating 2000 calories a day unless they are obese.

Lol no fucking way I’d like to be sub 160 at this height... I already feel like shit at 166... I’ve always been the big/strong guy in my family. Even now, my strength has not gone down one bit... rather, it’s been increasing like quite a bit.. any solid calculators you recommend so I can get my calories in check? I’d assume a 200-300 surplus would be sufficient for a lean bulk? Or should I go the 500 calorie surplus?

 

[Professor Karman]

Start off with a couple hundred and then track your progress and go from there. Not sure if you posted your workouts but make sure you are working your ass off. That in an of itself will keep your fat gain down.

 

[6FootFatty]

Start off with a couple hundred and then track your progress and go from there. Not sure if you posted your workouts but make sure you are working your ass off. That in an of itself will keep your fat gain down.

I follow the schedule below with some minor modifications during the workouts. I do the whole 7 day a week with about 20-25 mins of HIIT after my workout (200-300 calories burned each session).

Monday-Friday


Chest:

Incline Bench 3-5 sets

Flat Dumbbells 3-5 sets

Decline Machine 3-5 sets

Peck Deck 3-5 sets


Back:

Deadlifts 3-5 sets

Tbar Rows 3-5 sets

Pulldown 3-5 sets

Pullovers 3-5 sets

Bent Over Rows 3-5 sets


Legs:

Squats 3-5 sets

Leg Press 3-5 sets

Leg Extension 3-5 sets

Leg Curl 3-5 sets

Calves 3-5 sets


Shoulders:

Military Press 3-5 sets

Front Raises 3-5 sets

Side Raises 3-5 sets

Rear Delts 3-5 sets

Shrugs 3-5 sets


Arms:

Headcrusher 3-5 sets

Barbell Curl 3-5 sets

Pushdown 3-5 sets

Hammer Curl 3-5 sets

Forearms 3-5 sets


Repeat chest Sat


Repeat back Sun


Cardio:

Everyday if possible, 20 minutes of HIIT

 

[6FootFatty]

Also, wouldn’t it be better to cut to around 160 and then bulk rather than bulking right now? I think I’m so close to losing this midsection/lower back fat...

 

[Professor Karman]

Like I said in my first sentence of my first post, the decision is ultimately up to you (obviously). I gave you my opinion.

 

[legendary]

Also, wouldn’t it be better to cut to around 160 and then bulk rather than bulking right now? I think I’m so close to losing this midsection/lower back fat...

I'm no pro with dieting. But I also don't think as a average gym bro we should cut and bulk. If you eat good, train hard, sleep good you will naturally recomp. I would throw your scale out. Eat clean do cardio and train hard. You'll see progress.

 

[Dr JIM]

Hey everyone. Been on the sidelines for awhile now and thought I’d finally join the discussion. Wanted to start off with my progress over the last 8-9 months. Was fat my entire life... my peak was 232 lbs.. I decided enough was enough. Fast forward a few months of heavy lifting and a strict diet, I’m around 170-175 lbs. But I’m stuck now... not sure if I should continue cutting or if I should lean bulk... I still have fat left as evident in the pictures. Ideally, I’d want my abs to show before I start bulking.

Would love to get some suggestions from you guys. Thinking of starting a cycle soon to either recomp or lean bulk. Was thinking of test E for 10 weeks @ 500mg. Advice would be greatly appreciated.

Also, would anyone mind estimating my BF? Getting mixed responses from a lot of different people.

Glad to be on here!

Progress pics:

CONGRADULATIONS on your success but why complicate matters by adding PED's to the mix? The latter is NOT sustainable in the long term and it's a choice many regret IME.

Nonetheless IMO it's imperative you obtain baseline labs before cycling anything!

Good luck

JIM

 

[cerialkiller92]

Hey everyone. Been on the sidelines for awhile now and thought I’d finally join the discussion. Wanted to start off with my progress over the last 8-9 months. Was fat my entire life... my peak was 232 lbs.. I decided enough was enough. Fast forward a few months of heavy lifting and a strict diet, I’m around 170-175 lbs. But I’m stuck now... not sure if I should continue cutting or if I should lean bulk... I still have fat left as evident in the pictures. Ideally, I’d want my abs to show before I start bulking.

Would love to get some suggestions from you guys. Thinking of starting a cycle soon to either recomp or lean bulk. Was thinking of test E for 10 weeks @ 500mg. Advice would be greatly appreciated.

Also, would anyone mind estimating my BF? Getting mixed responses from a lot of different people.

Glad to be on here!

Progress pics:

That's amazing work man. You are close man!!!

 

[cerialkiller92]

I understand the half lives. I go by what Dave Palumbo says, if you think he is wrong than I dont know what to tell you. He is a smart guy and practices what he preaches. He says he makes his clients wait 2 weeks after last shot to start PCT and goes into detail why he chooses to do this. Dont know the exact science behind it like he does so wont try to explain in my words.

I think you answered your question. "Don't know the exact science behind it" one guy in a podcast doesn't beat lab reports

 

[SuperMaroid]

I think you answered your question. "Don't know the exact science behind it" one guy in a podcast doesn't beat lab reports

I said I dont know the science, but Dave does lol. Dave knows his shit, and I already agreed to add 2-3 weeks in my pct protocol I recommend. There are no scientific studies comparing starting 2 weeks after to 3 weeks after.

 

[Oldman.]

And I will totally disagree with you because free weight will incorporate more muscle fibers and if you do the free weight movement in the beginning of your workout you will be able to go heavier.

Heavier does not mean bigger, science tells us we need to exhaust our type one muscle fibers before the type two can get worked and torn down. But that’s just science based on studies, not reality. Per exhausting the muscle group is a common practice used by the big boys who like there joints as they age. All going heavy does for my joints is make them hurt. Which stalls any progress.

 

[SuperMaroid]

Heavier does not mean bigger, science tells us we need to exhaust our type one muscle fibers before the type two can get worked and torn down. But that’s just science based on studies, not reality. Per exhausting the muscle group is a common practice used by the big boys who like there joints as they age. All going heavy does for my joints is make them hurt. Which stalls any progress.

Science isnt the answer to what training method makes you grow more. You need to see for yourself and experiment what works for you.

What im saying is freeweight incorporates more muscle fibers. And what ever you do in the beggining of your workout you use more energy and strength, so you get more out of the free weight in the beginning of your workout. Its good to switch it up to shock your body and change the order of things.

Going heavy shouldnt hurt your joints unless your going for 6 or less reps or have poor form. When I do chest I start with Incline barbell and my last 2 sets are 275 for 10-12 anf 315 for 6-8, those are my heavy sets.

 

[Oldman.]

There is no coralation to muscle size and strength. So the weight used is unimportant. I am trying to find the study but it showed two groups. One lifted as you suggest with heavy movements. The other used volume. Both put on the same percent of muscle mass. The heavy lifters got stronger overall, the volume lifters got more indurance. Again both groups put on the same amount of lean mass. Science is how all our bodies work. Finding the best way to achieve this is what differs. So what do you want? To be strong or look good with indurance? One will leave your joints destroyed by 50 the other will allow you to lift your whole life.

Type two muscle fibers don’t generally get a good workout until the type one is exhausted. Your method means you attempt to work the type two before any type one fatigues. So you don’t get any real benefit to the type one fibers in doing heavy compound movements first. Since they need to exhaust first...... While I do heave movements first sometimes to mix it up it is not my opening move.

Further more by not warming up the joints with volume you run the risk of doing these heavy movements before the joint is ready for the load.

Since I went to a lighter volume program all my joint issues are gone and I still grew.

 

[SuperMaroid]

There is no coralation to muscle size and strength. So the weight used is unimportant. I am trying to find the study but it showed two groups. One lifted as you suggest with heavy movements. The other used volume. Both put on the same percent of muscle mass. The heavy lifters got stronger overall, the volume lifters got more indurance. Again both groups put on the same amount of lean mass. Science is how all our bodies work. Finding the best way to achieve this is what differs. So what do you want? To be strong or look good with indurance? One will leave your joints destroyed by 50 the other will allow you to lift your whole life.

Type two muscle fibers don’t generally get a good workout until the type one is exhausted. Your method means you attempt to work the type two before any type one fatigues. So you don’t get any real benefit to the type one fibers in doing heavy compound movements first. Since they need to exhaust first...... While I do heave movements first sometimes to mix it up it is not my opening move.

Further more by not warming up the joints with volume you run the risk of doing these heavy movements before the joint is ready for the load.

Since I went to a lighter volume program all my joint issues are gone and I still grew.

I do what works for me. I lift as heavy as I can for 6-12 reps, and do about 5 sets per exercise. I lift heavy with volume. But I dont lift too heavy, I dont do 1RM, I grow from reps. Like I said you need to find out what works for you, and how you like to train. I love to pyramid up and do free weight first. An example of one of my chest workouts is:

Incline Bench- 5 sets 6-12 reps
Flat Dumbbells - 5 sets 6-12 reps
Incline Machine- 5 sets 6-12 reps
Peck Deck- 5 sets 6-12 reps

Example of my lifts for Incline Bench:

Set 1- 135 for 12
Set 2- 185 for 12
Set 3- 225 for 12
Set 4- 275 for 10-12
Set 5- 315 for 6-8

Now I could easily do 365 for 1-2 but I dont because thats the set that would kill my joints and I wouldnt get enough reps. I'm working on hitting 315 for 10 and then I will give 365 a try and hopefully get around 6.

This is the training method that works for me, but like I said everyone is different. No science, or studies, will tell you the best way to train. You need to try different methods and see what you grow from.

 

[6FootFatty]

Some update pics after tonight’s back session. Had a 4050 calorie day today...

But I’m feeling “bigger” compared to 1 month ago. Veins popping in my biceps. I have veins all over my forearms when I’m relaxed. I’ve naturally had big traps and the past few weeks they’ve definitely grown... been getting a lot of comments on my traps... man I wonder how they’ll look once I jump on gear..

 

[Easymod3]

Awesome Job man! I’m a little late but I’ll add my two cents lol. I’ve seen the best results from a 3x4-6 rep range style workout, especially for us natties lol. Focusing on heavy compound lifts, where the bench, squat, deadlift and shoulder press should be your bread and butter. I started paying more attention to physique a year, and 70 lbs ago, and heavy compound lifts, along with a strict regimented diet and HIIT cardio has been what just melted the fat off me. Keep that shit up man, whatever you decide to do, I love seeing people getting their health in order, and just not being a fat slob on the couch anymore.

 

[6FootFatty]

Awesome Job man! I’m a little late but I’ll add my two cents lol. I’ve seen the best results from a 3x4-6 rep range style workout, especially for us natties lol. Focusing on heavy compound lifts, where the bench, squat, deadlift and shoulder press should be your bread and butter. I started paying more attention to physique a year, and 70 lbs ago, and heavy compound lifts, along with a strict regimented diet and HIIT cardio has been what just melted the fat off me. Keep that shit up man, whatever you decide to do, I love seeing people getting their health in order, and just not being a fat slob on the couch anymore.

Thanks brother. Man, I’m not even halfway at my desired physique yet but I feel so much better man... mentally and physically. It’s amazing how much of a confidence booster getting in shape can be... unfortunately, there’s no easy way out which is why most people quit after 2 weeks.

 

[Easymod3]

Thanks brother. Man, I’m not even halfway at my desired physique yet but I feel so much better man... mentally and physically. It’s amazing how much of a confidence booster getting in shape can be... unfortunately, there’s no easy way out which is why most people quit after 2 weeks.

One of the things I tell myself “if it were easy, everyone would do it”