5 year cruise comes to end.

[chop204]

I'm 26 year's old, been lifting for 10 years, basically blasted and cruised for 5 years with multiple drugs like test, tren, anadrol, t3, etc and had very little breaks or bridges. After a shitty break up my last 12 months of gear use was reckless, cruising what seem like forever test e,tren a, and one time dnp use. Diet was horrible entire time. My body adapted to the dosages, gains stop long time ago and overall well being I felt like shit. Depressed and in bad state of mind I stop working out completely and stop all drug use. That was September 2015.

Fast forward to Sept.24/2015 I go for full panel blood test after abusing mostly steroids, occasional drinking and one time dnp use. I'll only list my abnormal results.

ALK PHOSPHATSE -- 33 -- Range 40-129 U/L
ALT (SGPT) ------------ 122 -- Range <46 U/L
AST (SGOT) ------------ 42 -- Range <37 U/L
HDL --------------------- .9 -- Range >1.0
LDL ------------------ 3.51 -- Range <3.0
Cholesterol Ratio -- 5.4 -- Range <3.5

Test Total ----------- 75 -- Range ng/ml

I'm showing signs of damaged liver and kidney.
My test is basically nothing.
My bad cholesterol is high but my good cholesterol is just outside normal range.

Estrogen, T3, T4, vitamins and other functions appear to be okay. Blood pressure is okay.

Finally I wake the fuck up from my depression, and start getting my life back together. Start hitting the gym even though I'm tired all the time from having no test. I start a proper pct.

HCG 1000mcg ever 3d for 10 shots in total.
20mg Nolva everyday.
and about 2 weeks of rest of the Adex I had left.

Fast forward to Jan.21/2016 I go for blood testing again. I feel pretty much the same, shitty and lost pretty much all my gains. My ball size has improved but libido is low but have gotten the odd morning glory which felt promising to me that I was going into the right direction.

ALK PHOSPHATSE -- 37 -- Range 40-129 U/L --- Has improved slightly.
ALT (SGPT) ------------ 78 -- Range <46 U/L --- Has improved.
AST (SGOT) ------------ 92 -- Range <37 U/L --- Has worsened greatly! Why?


Cholesterol Ratio -- 4.9 -- Range <3.5 --- Overall my cholesterol is improving slowly.

Test Total ----------- 320 -- Range ng/ml --- Improved a lot! I'm happy but it's still on the bottom of the normal range.

Now I'm asking for help. Suggestions on to improve my blood work?

I really, really have to focus on my diet from here on out to improve my well being. I've always been a bad eater and it shows now. So diet is priority number 1 for me. I'm also now taking fish oils, k2+d3 and Niacine. Also taking 20mg Nolva everyday. I'm seem to be improving everywhere however I don't understand my sudden increase shown of kidney damage. Any help is appreciated and I hope of who you read this learn from my mistakes. Steroids aren't dangerous in my opinion, it's the people who abuse them. Everything should be used in moderation.

 

[Skull]

@Dr JIM

 

[ErikR]

I'm 26 year's old, been lifting for 10 years, basically blasted and cruised for 5 years with multiple drugs like test, tren, anadrol, t3, etc and had very little breaks or bridges. After a shitty break up my last 12 months of gear use was reckless, cruising what seem like forever test e,tren a, and one time dnp use. Diet was horrible entire time. My body adapted to the dosages, gains stop long time ago and overall well being I felt like shit. Depressed and in bad state of mind I stop working out completely and stop all drug use. That was September 2015.

Fast forward to Sept.24/2015 I go for full panel blood test after abusing mostly steroids, occasional drinking and one time dnp use. I'll only list my abnormal results.

ALK PHOSPHATSE -- 33 -- Range 40-129 U/L
ALT (SGPT) ------------ 122 -- Range <46 U/L
AST (SGOT) ------------ 42 -- Range <37 U/L
HDL --------------------- .9 -- Range >1.0
LDL ------------------ 3.51 -- Range <3.0
Cholesterol Ratio -- 5.4 -- Range <3.5

Test Total ----------- 75 -- Range ng/ml

I'm showing signs of damaged liver and kidney.
My test is basically nothing.
My bad cholesterol is high but my good cholesterol is just outside normal range.

Estrogen, T3, T4, vitamins and other functions appear to be okay. Blood pressure is okay.

Finally I wake the fuck up from my depression, and start getting my life back together. Start hitting the gym even though I'm tired all the time from having no test. I start a proper pct.

HCG 1000mcg ever 3d for 10 shots in total.
20mg Nolva everyday.
and about 2 weeks of rest of the Adex I had left.

Fast forward to Jan.21/2016 I go for blood testing again. I feel pretty much the same, shitty and lost pretty much all my gains. My ball size has improved but libido is low but have gotten the odd morning glory which felt promising to me that I was going into the right direction.

ALK PHOSPHATSE -- 37 -- Range 40-129 U/L --- Has improved slightly.
ALT (SGPT) ------------ 78 -- Range <46 U/L --- Has improved.
AST (SGOT) ------------ 92 -- Range <37 U/L --- Has worsened greatly! Why?


Cholesterol Ratio -- 4.9 -- Range <3.5 --- Overall my cholesterol is improving slowly.

Test Total ----------- 320 -- Range ng/ml --- Improved a lot! I'm happy but it's still on the bottom of the normal range.

Now I'm asking for help. Suggestions on to improve my blood work?

I really, really have to focus on my diet from here on out to improve my well being. I've always been a bad eater and it shows now. So diet is priority number 1 for me. I'm also now taking fish oils, k2+d3 and Niacine. Also taking 20mg Nolva everyday. I'm seem to be improving everywhere however I don't understand my sudden increase shown of kidney damage. Any help is appreciated and I hope of who you read this learn from my mistakes. Steroids aren't dangerous in my opinion, it's the people who abuse them. Everything should be used in moderation.

What type of doses were you taking throughout those 5 years?

 

[T_verde77]

Nolvadex is hard on the liver also. Good luck on your recovery

 

[chop204]

What type of doses were you taking throughout those 5 years?

Taken test high as 1200 a week, tren 700wk, 100mg anadrol ed. Pretty much tried them all at decent dosages but nothing out of this world like some other guys. I obviously ran these compounds longer than recommended.

Nolvadex is hard on the liver also. Good luck on your recovery

Thank you and I wasn't aware of that. Judging from my blood work things seem to being going in right direction.

Little update on my situation. I'm following clean diet, starting to do cardio on a regular basis which I never really did before, was rare. For natural supps been taking omega 369 oils, Niacine, Vitamin k2+D3 and now starting Milk Thistle, Schisandra, Alpha Lipoic Acid & Turmeric. I wanna restore my liver and kidney functions to the best health as I can. Any one suggestions on something to add?

Been 4 months since any drugs were taken and my test has risen from 74 to 320 ng/ml, mind you I'm still taking Nolva everday. Would anyone recommend I redo my pct again to hopefully get my natural test up to comfortable 700ish range?

I'm gonna go for blood work in 4-6 weeks and will make sure to bump this thread and give update on my situation. Maybe it could help other guys in similar situation.

 

[Dr JIM]

I'm 26 year's old, been lifting for 10 years, basically blasted and cruised for 5 years with multiple drugs like test, tren, anadrol, t3, etc and had very little breaks or bridges. After a shitty break up my last 12 months of gear use was reckless, cruising what seem like forever test e,tren a, and one time dnp use. Diet was horrible entire time. My body adapted to the dosages, gains stop long time ago and overall well being I felt like shit. Depressed and in bad state of mind I stop working out completely and stop all drug use. That was September 2015.

Fast forward to Sept.24/2015 I go for full panel blood test after abusing mostly steroids, occasional drinking and one time dnp use. I'll only list my abnormal results.

ALK PHOSPHATSE -- 33 -- Range 40-129 U/L
ALT (SGPT) ------------ 122 -- Range <46 U/L
AST (SGOT) ------------ 42 -- Range <37 U/L
HDL --------------------- .9 -- Range >1.0
LDL ------------------ 3.51 -- Range <3.0
Cholesterol Ratio -- 5.4 -- Range <3.5

Test Total ----------- 75 -- Range ng/ml

I'm showing signs of damaged liver and kidney.
My test is basically nothing.
My bad cholesterol is high but my good cholesterol is just outside normal range.

Estrogen, T3, T4, vitamins and other functions appear to be okay. Blood pressure is okay.

Finally I wake the fuck up from my depression, and start getting my life back together. Start hitting the gym even though I'm tired all the time from having no test. I start a proper pct.

HCG 1000mcg ever 3d for 10 shots in total.
20mg Nolva everyday.
and about 2 weeks of rest of the Adex I had left.

Fast forward to Jan.21/2016 I go for blood testing again. I feel pretty much the same, shitty and lost pretty much all my gains. My ball size has improved but libido is low but have gotten the odd morning glory which felt promising to me that I was going into the right direction.

ALK PHOSPHATSE -- 37 -- Range 40-129 U/L --- Has improved slightly.
ALT (SGPT) ------------ 78 -- Range <46 U/L --- Has improved.
AST (SGOT) ------------ 92 -- Range <37 U/L --- Has worsened greatly! Why?


Cholesterol Ratio -- 4.9 -- Range <3.5 --- Overall my cholesterol is improving slowly.

Test Total ----------- 320 -- Range ng/ml --- Improved a lot! I'm happy but it's still on the bottom of the normal range.

Now I'm asking for help. Suggestions on to improve my blood work?

I really, really have to focus on my diet from here on out to improve my well being. I've always been a bad eater and it shows now. So diet is priority number 1 for me. I'm also now taking fish oils, k2+d3 and Niacine. Also taking 20mg Nolva everyday. I'm seem to be improving everywhere however I don't understand my sudden increase shown of kidney damage. Any help is appreciated and I hope of who you read this learn from my mistakes. Steroids aren't dangerous in my opinion, it's the people who abuse them. Everything should be used in moderation.

Is any of this surprising NOPE, in fact its TO BE EXPECTED and for those who are into B&C this is almost always the end result IME. The longer one ABUSES AAS the greater the risk and complications AND the amount of time required for recovery.

There's a lot you can do to but chances are it wont make much difference in the long run. What do I mean by that?

You could try a high end Power PCT of sorts, but there is no magic bullet to be had, as therapy of that nature won't change the time required for complete HTPA restoration (which is all F..ed up bc of LH desensitization) when AAS are used for such prolonged, high end and indeed "reckless" intervals.

It would be optimal to obtain "baseline" LH, FSH, E-2 and TT levels however.

However on many instances of this nature TRT or even long term SERM therapy (AND I MEAN TRT!!!) becomes the only viable options while awaiting an improvement in HTPA functioning. I prefer LT SERM tx overall

 

[foreveryoung]

I'm wondering if it was myself if I would do things differently and go on a low dose cruise rather than instant stop 100%... not sure which would be healthier, I know I don't think pct is a very healthy thing overall, as is being crashed completely for some time

just some thoughts, I am on for life now so I won't really experiment with the coming off concepts any more, for me they were overall disappointing in the long run, but it's not like I died or anything you do keep going and live life, but life is definitely different depending on hormone levels, for me being off after were some wasted years of living a mediocre life

 

[Dr JIM]

I'm 26 year's old, been lifting for 10 years, basically blasted and cruised for 5 years with multiple drugs like test, tren, anadrol, t3, etc and had very little breaks or bridges. After a shitty break up my last 12 months of gear use was reckless, cruising what seem like forever test e,tren a, and one time dnp use. Diet was horrible entire time. My body adapted to the dosages, gains stop long time ago and overall well being I felt like shit. Depressed and in bad state of mind I stop working out completely and stop all drug use. That was September 2015.

Fast forward to Sept.24/2015 I go for full panel blood test after abusing mostly steroids, occasional drinking and one time dnp use. I'll only list my abnormal results.

ALK PHOSPHATSE -- 33 -- Range 40-129 U/L
ALT (SGPT) ------------ 122 -- Range <46 U/L
AST (SGOT) ------------ 42 -- Range <37 U/L
HDL --------------------- .9 -- Range >1.0
LDL ------------------ 3.51 -- Range <3.0
Cholesterol Ratio -- 5.4 -- Range <3.5

Test Total ----------- 75 -- Range ng/ml

I'm showing signs of damaged liver and kidney.
My test is basically nothing.
My bad cholesterol is high but my good cholesterol is just outside normal range.

Estrogen, T3, T4, vitamins and other functions appear to be okay. Blood pressure is okay.

Finally I wake the fuck up from my depression, and start getting my life back together. Start hitting the gym even though I'm tired all the time from having no test. I start a proper pct.

HCG 1000mcg ever 3d for 10 shots in total.
20mg Nolva everyday.
and about 2 weeks of rest of the Adex I had left.

Fast forward to Jan.21/2016 I go for blood testing again. I feel pretty much the same, shitty and lost pretty much all my gains. My ball size has improved but libido is low but have gotten the odd morning glory which felt promising to me that I was going into the right direction.

ALK PHOSPHATSE -- 37 -- Range 40-129 U/L --- Has improved slightly.
ALT (SGPT) ------------ 78 -- Range <46 U/L --- Has improved.
AST (SGOT) ------------ 92 -- Range <37 U/L --- Has worsened greatly! Why?


Cholesterol Ratio -- 4.9 -- Range <3.5 --- Overall my cholesterol is improving slowly.

Test Total ----------- 320 -- Range ng/ml --- Improved a lot! I'm happy but it's still on the bottom of the normal range.

Now I'm asking for help. Suggestions on to improve my blood work?

I really, really have to focus on my diet from here on out to improve my well being. I've always been a bad eater and it shows now. So diet is priority number 1 for me. I'm also now taking fish oils, k2+d3 and Niacine. Also taking 20mg Nolva everyday. I'm seem to be improving everywhere however I don't understand my sudden increase shown of kidney damage. Any help is appreciated and I hope of who you read this learn from my mistakes. Steroids aren't dangerous in my opinion, it's the people who abuse them. Everything should be used in moderation.

Thanks for the post OP seriously. I love it's brutal honesty and the enlightenment or warnings it may provide to others who are rolling similar dice here and elsewhere.
(As an aside and I'm making no direct reference to the OP bc what is done is done but the above is just another reason why those less than 25ish should not be cycling, lack of impulse control manifested by "more is better")

 

[Dr JIM]

OP
You have a Doc working with you? I ask bc it's VERY important your recovery meds are Pharm grade! These should be relatively easy to acquire considering your circumstances.

 

[chop204]

Is any of this surprising NOPE, in fact its TO BE EXPECTED and for those who are into B&C this is almost always the end result IME. The longer one ABUSES AAS the greater the risk and complications AND the amount of time required for recovery.

There's a lot you can do to but chances are it wont make much difference in the long run. What do I mean by that?

You could try a high end Power PCT of sorts, but there is no magic bullet to be had, as therapy of that nature won't change the time required for complete HTPA restoration (which is all F..ed up bc of LH desensitization) when AAS are used for such prolonged, high end and indeed "reckless" intervals.

It would be optimal to obtain "baseline" LH, FSH, E-2 and TT levels however.

However on many instances of this nature TRT or even long term SERM therapy (AND I MEAN TRT!!!) becomes the only viable options while awaiting an improvement in HTPA functioning. I prefer LT SERM tx overall

I never thought of it that way. Maybe I should talk to my doctor and look into TRT at this point instead of continuing this long healing process. Having low test is awful!

OP
You have a Doc working with you? I ask bc it's VERY important your recovery meds are Pharm grade! These should be relatively easy to acquire considering your circumstances.

Yes I do have a doctor however I'm seriously considering seeing a local hormonal specialist. Originally after my doctor seen my first blood work he just suggest I remain off all drugs and everything "should come back"

I did my own PCT and after reviewing my latest blood work with him I told him about taking Nolva and HCG but he seem to frown upon it and suggest I stay do nothing and see what happens. No real suggestions or anything "see where your at in 4-6 weeks time"
And the HCG I currently have access to is pharma grade but the SERM's are UGL's.

Thinking about it all now I feel like I should be seeing a specialist and not my 100 year old family doctor.

 

[chop204]

I'm wondering if it was myself if I would do things differently and go on a low dose cruise rather than instant stop 100%... not sure which would be healthier, I know I don't think pct is a very healthy thing overall, as is being crashed completely for some time

just some thoughts, I am on for life now so I won't really experiment with the coming off concepts any more, for me they were overall disappointing in the long run, but it's not like I died or anything you do keep going and live life, but life is definitely different depending on hormone levels, for me being off after were some wasted years of living a mediocre life

Yeah I'm starting to second guess my choice to come off everything cold turkey. I was lost in depression and made more choices in past 12 months I was juicing. Now I'm starting to think I should of just drop down to a low TRT dosage, make better life, health choices and monitor my blood work. Live and learn I guess.

 

[Dr JIM]

I never thought of it that way. Maybe I should talk to my doctor and look into TRT at this point instead of continuing this long healing process. Having low test is awful!



Yes I do have a doctor however I'm seriously reconsidering seeing a local hormonal specialist. Originally after my doctor seen my first blood work he just suggest I remain off all drugs and everything "should come back"

I did my own PCT and after reviewing my latest blood work with him I told him about taking Nolva and HCG but he seem to frown upon it and suggest I stay do nothing and see what happens. No real suggestions or anything "see where your at in 4-6 weeks time"
And the HCG I currently have access to is pharma grade but the SERM's are UGL's.

Thinking about it all now I feel like I should be seeing a specialist and not my 100 year old family doctor.

1) NOOOOOOOOOO "hormonal specialist" YESSSSSS to an endocrinologist
at present you need a doc that's willing to work with you and understands your condition and it's CAUSE, which you MUST tell him/her about fella.

No details are necessary like I've got an online AAS connection, here is the address I use to fool the feds or what AAS were cycled, LOL. However appropriate therapy is often dependent upon the KNOWING CAUSE of hypogonadism, GOT IT!

2) There are excellent studies on SERMS as TRT substitutes but I'll admit few docs are aware of their application and or utility to that end. He may need a few evidence based references and those I can send you if needed

3) Expect a certain degree of hesitancy on behalf of your Doc but most come around once they review the data mate. That's why you NEED to tell him you used AAS and like you did here a little humility goes a LONG WAY IME

 

[roastdawg]

Is any of this surprising NOPE, in fact its TO BE EXPECTED and for those who are into B&C this is almost always the end result IME. The longer one ABUSES AAS the greater the risk and complications AND the amount of time required for recovery.

There's a lot you can do to but chances are it wont make much difference in the long run. What do I mean by that?

You could try a high end Power PCT of sorts, but there is no magic bullet to be had, as therapy of that nature won't change the time required for complete HTPA restoration (which is all F..ed up bc of LH desensitization) when AAS are used for such prolonged, high end and indeed "reckless" intervals.

It would be optimal to obtain "baseline" LH, FSH, E-2 and TT levels however.

However on many instances of this nature TRT or even long term SERM therapy (AND I MEAN TRT!!!) becomes the only viable options while awaiting an improvement in HTPA functioning. I prefer LT SERM tx overall

Does long term serm therapy cause lh desensitization? Or would it allow for slow, steady improvement in this area?

 

[Dr JIM]

One more VERY IMPORTANT aspect to know now, TRT or a return of your HTPA function to baseline will NOT reverse whatever preexisting depression you had or have!

I can NOT emphasize that enough!

 

[chop204]

1) NOOOOOOOOOO "hormonal specialist" YESSSSSS to an endocrinologist
at present you need a doc that's willing to work with you and understands your condition and it's CAUSE, which you MUST tell him/her about fella.

No details are necessary like I've got an online AAS connection, here is the address I use to fool the feds or what AAS were cycled, LOL BUT appropriate therapy is often dependent upon the CAUSE, GOT IT!

2) There are excellent studies on SERMS as TRT substitutes but I'll admit few docs are aware of their application and or utility to that end. He may need a few evidence based references and those I can send you if needed

3) Expect a certain degree of hesitancy on behalf of your Doc but most come around once they review the data mate. That's why you NEED to tell him you used AAS and like you did here a little humility goes a LONG WAY IME

Thank you for all the replies Dr JIM!

1. I will do my own research for a local and reputable endocrinologist that can work with my doctor to help normalize me.

2. Yes I believe my doctor is one of the many that just don't know enough about this topic. Honestly when I told my doctor I took HCG and Nolva, he looked at me 'like wtf?'.

3. I've been 100% upfront with my AAS use to my doctor, as I will be to anyone in the medical field. Steroid laws are very lenient were I'm from so I openly discuss them, I'll make sure any endo I see it very aware of the abuse I've done.

Does long term serm therapy cause lh desensitization? Or would it allow for slow, steady improvement in this area?

Yes, I'm also curious to know this. I hear reflecting stories on HCG as well.

 

[Dr JIM]

Does long term serm therapy cause lh desensitization? Or would it allow for slow, steady improvement in this area?

Whatever "desensitization" occurred was the result of his AAS abuse and SERMS have not been shown to exacerbate such a state (in fact they are more likely to reverse it). As I said earlier there is no magic bullet here so the OP must learn to embrace patience NOW.

FOR THE OP
Get the lab testing done and go from there as the rest (on an individual basis) remains an unknown in their absence.

Finally obtain access to pharm grade SERMs and perhaps HCG once this is achieved STOP all the supplements for 4-6 weeks and obtain the baseline labs I mentioned.

 

[chop204]

One more VERY IMPORTANT aspect to know now, TRT or a return of your HTPA function to baseline will NOT reverse whatever preexisting depression you had or have!

I can NOT emphasize that enough!

Yes I'm still learning to live with my own demons, and deal with depression and anxiety. Having high amounts of test in my blood seem to mask that problem, temporary, possibly I was using steroids as a "way out" such as an alcoholic would find booze to be his poison.

Either way I think depression is a chemical imbalance but also maybe self created. It's in your head, you made it up and it doesn't actually exist. Maybe I'm going off a bit here lol but point is I wanna get better and I'm motivated to do so. Depression won't take any more time away from me.

 

[Dr JIM]

Thank you for all the replies Dr JIM!

Yes, I'm also curious to know this. I hear reflecting stories on HCG as well.

Continued use of HCG does NOT result in a decremental rise of TT over time, which would necessitate an HCG dosage escalation to acheive the same benefit (TT level) that was noted at lower HCG dosages.

Although this phenomenon is broadly defined as "desensitization" it's important to understand several factors may be responsible (whole or in part) for an alteration of a drugs dose response curve, that are not receptor mediated but rather are the result of inherent physiologic or genetic barriers.

The latter is readily observed in anabolic agents, such that while using one gram of TT weekly could result in a 3 pound/week gain in LBM, tripling the TT dose will not triple ones "gains". (This is a conceptual, rather than a quantitative, comparison per say!)

The latter is also the case with HCG and it seems many have attributed, what is likely the limits of gonadal endogenous TT secretion, to HCG "desentization" !
So much like AAS there is a finite benefit to the use of HCG and that limit has little to do with "desensitization".

Jim

 

[Dr JIM]

Yes I'm still learning to live with my own demons, and deal with depression and anxiety. Having high amounts of test in my blood seem to mask that problem, temporary, possibly I was using steroids as a "way out" such as an alcoholic would find booze to be his poison.

Either way I think depression is a chemical imbalance but also maybe self created. It's in your head, you made it up and it doesn't actually exist. Maybe I'm going off a bit here lol but point is I wanna get better and I'm motivated to do so. Depression won't take any more time away from me.

Stay in touch, keep your head up and your mind foucused on those factors you can change thru education and understanding, but also learn to recognize, accept and dismiss those you can NOT!

Jim

 

[Dr JIM]

Continued use of HCG does NOT result in a decremental rise of TT over time, which would necessitate an HCG dosage escalation to acheive the same benefit (TT level) that was noted at lower HCG dosages.

Although this phenomenon is broadly defined as "desensitization" it's important to understand several factors may be responsible (whole or in part) for an alteration of a drugs dose response curve, that are not receptor mediated but rather are the result of inherent physiologic or genetic barriers.

The latter is readily observed in anabolic agents, such that while using one gram of TT weekly could result in a 3 pound/week gain in LBM, tripling the TT dose will not triple ones "gains". (This is a conceptual, rather than a quantitative, comparison per say!)

The latter is also the case with HCG and it seems many have attributed, what is likely the limits of gonadal endogenous TT secretion, to HCG "desentization" !
So much like AAS there is a finite benefit to the use of HCG and that limit has little to do with "desensitization".

Jim