5 year cruise comes to end.

[chop204]

Alright guy's since there's been some recent interest in my thread/situation I thought I would give everyone an update and to start, I just wanna make a correction about my previous post, I mean't to say I've been drug free since September 2015, not 2016.

However I can no longer say the above statement is true anymore as I have started to cycle steroids again (Started July 2016). Sorry if I disappointed anyone, I don't encourage anyone to do the things I have done and this thread is just for educational purposes I guess.

So to simplify everything, I abused steroids for a good 5 years and came off with no pct, went into a depressed state and lost all my gains plus got fat. Eventually I came back to reality and got my blood work done, it was awful so I started a proper pct to start my own natural test production cause I shut down hard. I also started a stack of supplements that I felt help aid in my recovery, improving liver lipids, cholesterol etc. Company this all with cardio sessions and gym workouts I started to get better, but physically I didn't look like it at all obviously. After a couple months my test was in the bottom end of normal and my blood work improved across the board. I kept up the regime for sometime..

However as time went by I started to get the itch to start up again, which I am now doing. I have a whole new outlook on usage, I'm now gonna practice proper time on and off protocols, on cycle HCG support and of course follow a clean diet. Also I plan on posting my blood work again once I finish this cycle

 

[eryximachus]

Yes gentlemen. Steroids are addictive...

 

[Apexvallen]

Bodybuilding on 380 test is pretty hard imo. If you want to be jacked, you wouldn't be able to do it naturally so if you have accepted the downsides then go for it.

 

[chop204]

Yes gentlemen. Steroids are addictive...

Absolutely, I agree 100%. Everything in moderation I say.

Bodybuilding on 380 test is pretty hard imo. If you want to be jacked, you wouldn't be able to do it naturally so if you have accepted the downsides then go for it.

My goal isn't to be a bodybuilder and yes 380 is far from impressive, hence why I'm back on the test band wagon.

 

[Apexvallen]

I was at 400 before any AAS too high to get real medical help, too low to have energy and sex drive. it was very frustrating.

 

[oldmusclemike]

OP are you real... you admit Steroids are addictive and you are an addict. Yes! so you abused them to the point of absolute stupidity with no rhyme or reason for 5 years.

So now you think you are going to USE them safely and use the time on time off frame of cycling. Hmm ?

So I am a recovering drug, opiate and other addict for 46n years. Got clean n sober 6 years ago. What do ya think if I get a script for some Oxycodone and methadone and promise myself I'll take as prescribed now. Really man I got this now.... ya think.

Grow up man... and stop promising anyone and yourself you are gonna do it right. I'm not saying don't, I'm saying don't give us Bullshit kid. You will not find that moderation point in real short time. That's straight talk

 

[chop204]

OP are you real... you admit Steroids are addictive and you are an addict. Yes! so you abused them to the point of absolute stupidity with no rhyme or reason for 5 years.

So now you think you are going to USE them safely and use the time on time off frame of cycling. Hmm ?

So I am a recovering drug, opiate and other addict for 46n years. Got clean n sober 6 years ago. What do ya think if I get a script for some Oxycodone and methadone and promise myself I'll take as prescribed now. Really man I got this now.... ya think.

Grow up man... and stop promising anyone and yourself you are gonna do it right. I'm not saying don't, I'm saying don't give us Bullshit kid. You will not find that moderation point in real short time. That's straight talk

Hey man thanks for the reply and advice.

 

[eryximachus]

Hey man thanks for the reply and advice.

Really, reconsider what you're doing. I have been there too, and this isn't going to work for you. 380 test is GREAT after that kind of abuse. 12.5mg/ED of clomid for a year is far preferable to what you are doing and will boost your levels a bit higher with no sides.

You can still jump off this train now and chart a new course for yourself and your life. Trust me, someday you are going to look back at this time and realize you had the chance for a new beginning and wish you had taken it.

 

[chop204]

Really, reconsider what you're doing. I have been there too, and this isn't going to work for you. 380 test is GREAT after that kind of abuse. 12.5mg/ED of clomid for a year is far preferable to what you are doing and will boost your levels a bit higher with no sides.

You can still jump off this train now and chart a new course for yourself and your life. Trust me, someday you are going to look back at this time and realize you had the chance for a new beginning and wish you had taken it.

I'm not going to lie, your concern for my well being means a lot and another reason why I appreciate Meso so much and guys like yourself but there must be a safe way to cycle steroids, no?

My goal was to cycle steroids with proper time on and off,use hcg, eat clean and keep getting my blood work done. I'm not perfect and I understand the risk but a little testosterone couldn't hurt, could it? One day my natural test will eventually be low, happens to use all and I'll be ready to go on TRT, from an actual doctor.

Maybe I'm missing the whole picture? I know I have my own personal issues and juicing could be my escape..

 

[Apexvallen]

Maybe just make a promise to yourself that youll take double the time off between cycles. Instead of 12 on 12 off, do 12 on and 24 off, to give your body enough time to get back to as normal test as possible, so one day when you want kids, you will have enough natural test to function properly while trying for kids. Or something like that. You seem like a cool dude. I'd love for this to all have a happy ending.

 

[eryximachus]

I'm not going to lie, your concern for my well being means a lot and another reason why I appreciate Meso so much and guys like yourself but there must be a safe way to cycle steroids, no?

My goal was to cycle steroids with proper time on and off,use hcg, eat clean and keep getting my blood work done. I'm not perfect and I understand the risk but a little testosterone couldn't hurt, could it? One day my natural test will eventually be low, happens to use all and I'll be ready to go on TRT, from an actual doctor.

Maybe I'm missing the whole picture? I know I have my own personal issues and juicing could be my escape..

Is there a safe way? Honestly, we don't know for certain, but increasingly I believe the answer is "not really". You can mitigate the risks, but you can never eliminate them. Part of the reason the FDA has been slow to approve things like Androxal or even Nebino (Haven't researched that recently) is the combined studies of both testosterone replacement therapy AND estrogen replacement therapy indicate there is an elevated risk of cardiac events. If even replacement therapy doses carry risks, it would seem reasonable to assume high doses do as well.

But there are two issues. One is specific to you. Five years is just extreme. This demonstrates a lack of self control (which, I have personally exhibited myself at times, but not to this degree), which you may THINK you can control today, but may not in the future. Especially when you are on these drugs, they give you a completely irrational sense of self-confidence.

And the second issue, which I have really come to realize at 38, is it worth it? Do you really want to be worrying about this stuff? There is a point where most people regret YOLO. You might too.

Your writing is cogent, and you are thoughtful. I wish someone had written a personal note like this to me about 3.5 years ago when I had a similar abuse situation that left me crashed and burned. I thought like you that I COULD cycle responsibility after that, and the reality is I did. But, there are still negative effects, and in balance, I don't think my life is greatly improved and I think if I had quit for good 3.5 years ago, my life would be better today than it is.

 

[eryximachus]

Maybe just make a promise to yourself that youll take double the time off between cycles. Instead of 12 on 12 off, do 12 on and 24 off, to give your body enough time to get back to as normal test as possible, so one day when you want kids, you will have enough natural test to function properly while trying for kids. Or something like that. You seem like a cool dude. I'd love for this to all have a happy ending.

And the kids thing is very important. The OP doesn't seem like a heartless narcissist. I'm at that point where I want to have kids, and it does concern me. The good news is HMG seems to work well even for serious abusers, but be ready to drop a few grand.

 

[chop204]

Is there a safe way? Honestly, we don't know for certain, but increasingly I believe the answer is "not really". You can mitigate the risks, but you can never eliminate them. Part of the reason the FDA has been slow to approve things like Androxal or even Nebino (Haven't researched that recently) is the combined studies of both testosterone replacement therapy AND estrogen replacement therapy indicate there is an elevated risk of cardiac events. If even replacement therapy doses carry risks, it would seem reasonable to assume high doses do as well.

But there are two issues. One is specific to you. Five years is just extreme. This demonstrates a lack of self control (which, I have personally exhibited myself at times, but not to this degree), which you may THINK you can control today, but may not in the future. Especially when you are on these drugs, they give you a completely irrational sense of self-confidence.

And the second issue, which I have really come to realize at 38, is it worth it? Do you really want to be worrying about this stuff? There is a point where most people regret YOLO. You might too.

Your writing is cogent, and you are thoughtful. I wish someone had written a personal note like this to me about 3.5 years ago when I had a similar abuse situation that left me crashed and burned. I thought like you that I COULD cycle responsibility after that, and the reality is I did. But, there are still negative effects, and in balance, I don't think my life is greatly improved and I think if I had quit for good 3.5 years ago, my life would be better today than it is.

And the kids thing is very important. The OP doesn't seem like a heartless narcissist. I'm at that point where I want to have kids, and it does concern me. The good news is HMG seems to work well even for serious abusers, but be ready to drop a few grand.

Hey man I'd like to continue this discussion however I'm off to work for now so I will be back on later to reply to this you.

 

[Geterdun]

@chop204 in your situation, NO, there is no way to safely cycle steroids. You are different now and need to look at this different. Cycling Steroids is no longer a problem of dose proper, time proper cycles. Now it's a disease. Addiction is addiction, even Steroids. Your addiction is running your train of thought and is telling you "go ahead, you can cycle like a responsible human being." I'm sorry, but in your case, it can't happen again and sooner or later, the old @chop204 will surface and say, ahhh, what's another 1/2cc, then it will happen again and you will convince yourself everything is ok, just like right now! Before you know it, your back to the old lifestyle.

So you know, by the Clinical definition most Addictionologists use, you are once again abusing Steroids, at any dose if your using. @oldmusclemike speaks from an addicts experience and I want to thank him for doing his part and sharing.

I'm not going to tell you to stop, because you won't. I hope you stop before it's worse than before. A second hard recovery is twice as hard as your first brother. GL

 

[chop204]

I don't know what to say really, it's pretty obvious I have a problem and shouldn't be indulging myself with steroids after my last cycle. Honestly I kinda feel like an idiot for posting this all and trying to justify my actions when it's clear I need help. I don't know what I'm gonna do but I know what the right choice is, just gotta think my life over for now. FML

 

[eryximachus]

I don't know what to say really, it's pretty obvious I have a problem and shouldn't be indulging myself with steroids after my last cycle. Honestly I kinda feel like an idiot for posting this all and trying to justify my actions when it's clear I need help. I don't know what I'm gonna do but I know what the right choice is, just gotta think my life over for now. FML

You've taken a GREAT step in starting this thread, and telling the truth. I never was able to take that step to the same degree. So, don't feel bad. You're in a much better place than if you were doing this on your own, without any feedback.

At the very least, just keep this thread going. You've got a couple concerned people including myself who will give you honest feedback.

What you should do now is just end your cycle, and do a proper PCT. Given your history, I'd do a super PCT. 25,000 ius, 10 shots, EOD. Clomid/Nolva, and since you relapsed - I would seriously consider doing a low dose of clomid for 6 months to a year. The vast majority of people don't have any sides on 12.5mg or 25mg per day, and this gets most people into the 600+ test range. Really, I would expect 6 months of clomid usage to be one of the best ways to give your body time to recover.

 

[Kel995]

This thread was the reason I joined meso.

It must continue.

I'm 34 years old......i was feeling off around October 2015. Went to doc, he took a lot of blood test. I had no idea he was doing testosterone bloods in the labs........240. I told him I partied occasionally and in a months time it was safe to say I would consume 2 bottles of whiskey, case of beer, 5-6 loritabs, 5-6 grams of herb, I told him the truth.


For the next 6 months I used supplements like crazy, the entire Jym line from bodybuilding. I quit drinking, taking drugs, my girlfriend was cooking super clean. She took her part serious and researched diets to increase test etc.


The end result, 429 test.......time of blood drawn was 4:00 pm instead of 9:00am like first set.

So basically, in my opinion, supplements do not help really. I mean I took Jym's protein, pre-workout, post-workout, post workout carbs, his test booster, his ZMA, his fat burner, fish oils.

In the end I noticed a slight increase in well being. But $240 a month in supplements, and total lack of any recreational materials......guess that's the price you pay for abusing Rec drugs for 10 years after my competitive athletic career was over.

So now I'm about to run my first cycle, (brother in law told me the supps I took for 6 months would be benificial on gear, minus the test booster BS)

I found this thread because I wanted to do 12 weeks. After reading this....I think
10 weeks will do. I'm already approved for TRT by my doc who told me ) $80 a month and 750 levels were better than $240 and low 400's.

Anyway. This was a damn good thread.

Edit: cycle is not TRT, but I figured I have that option since my levels are already shit.

Question, 240 test at 9:00am
429 test at 4:00pm, how much higher would my test would have been of taken in the morning properly? (Lee Priest Properly!)

 

[Hugh J Sachs]

Surprised you found a lab drawing that late, mine close at 1500.

I consistently clock in 1 to 2 hundred higher on total when pulled in early or mid morning compared to afternoon (that's on natty supply, with exogenous test I imagine the am/pm flux would be minimal)