6-month cruise on ~350mg Test E, questionable results? Looking for advice

Golfis

New Member
Hi everyone, long time reader first time poster.

I have tried to educate myself as much as I can and tried various things but I think that I am reaching a point were assistance from more knowledgable people would be beneficial.

Here is a link with my new-member introductory post that might perhaps answer some of your questions.
Long time reader, new member

Long before started lifting for unrelated reasons I tested my total testosterone and came out at about 320ng/dl. At the time the doctor recommended to do additional tests since it seemed low for my age (but within their reference range), but I wasn't really concerned since at that time and couldn't identify any obvious physical side effects that might come with low testosterone concentration.

Approximately 1 year ago I did extensive blood work (as a natural) twice and the total testosterone averaged at around 400 ng/dl, with E2 at 41pg/ml and Free testosterone at 110pg/ml. Also tested T3, T4, TSH and were all within normal values.

Approximately 6-months ago I have decided to enter the enhanced weightlifting scene and by fully understanding the risks that might come along with it, see and experience first hand the effects of additional testosterone in my body. The initial plan was to run a 350mg test e cycle (pinning twice a week) for 20 weeks while on a caloric surplus and after the cycle continue injecting somewhere around 100-125mg per week in order to be at the high end of natural test production (initially planned to confirm this through blood tests).

About my stats: 9/22 starting weight 72.2kg 13-15% body fat(picture taken at the end of 9/22).
Max weight before starting cutting (12/22) 76.3kg body fat at end of 11/22 definitely >15%
Current (02/23) body weight 74.3kg body fat about the same as starting point

Currently eating at about 2300-2400 calories at 171cm tall which results in about 1kg weight loss per month. Although I have been using calorie tracking apps for a very long time, right after reaching peak body weight I have been really meticulous not only in counting every single eating portion and calorie but also trying to maintain as stable of a lifestyle as possible in order to keep my TDEE as stable as possible.

As far as macros are concerned, at my current body weight I am eating about 150grams protein, 280grams carbohydrates and 75grams fat. (there are slight fluctuations on daily basis and thus here I am presenting average values)

Lifts both during the cut and bulk have been slowly but steadily increasing at a rate of 2.5~5kg per week.

Currents stats (5-rep max) for 5 sets on the main lifts:
Bench press: 110kg
Seating overhead press: 70kg
Squat: 142.5kg
Weighted chin-ups: Bodyweight+35kg

During the bulking phase my lifting routine was more strength-focused than anything else, consisting of doing a PPL split 5-6 times per week. Working every each muscle group for about 16 sets per week. On each training day I would do two exercise variation of 5x5 to failure on each set and then 3-4 additional exercises of 8-12 and 12-15 reps of RPE 8+ as an accessory. During the current cutting phase, the accessory portion has stayed pretty much the same but instead of doing 5x5 at the begging of each workout I am now doing 2 exercises with 6sets of 8-12 reps going to failure on every set when I can only do 8 reps and slightly decreasing the intensity when I am able to do 12-reps at RPE 1 right before increase the weight for the next month. I might add around here that sleeping could definitely be improved since I am only able to do 6-7 hours on a weekday and about 8 on weekends (but I cannot change that since I am trying to achieve certain career goals in the near future).

Although strength has increased quite a lot during this 6-month journey my appearance hasn't changed all that much. Initially, while trying to troubleshoot what was wrong I thought that perhaps the testosterone I was injecting was underused or fake. (In my country possession and usage of steroids is legal, but require a prescription or importing a "small" amount appropriate for personal usage. For that reason there are many Men's health clinic which provide almost any steroid for quite a substantial fee).

A month ago I did blood work and the results are as follows:
T3, T4, TSH within normal values,
Free testosterone (There was a miss communication and I did not get Total range) 81pg/ml lab scale is 7.6~23.8pg/ml
E2 81pg/dl (19-51pg/ml)
Prolactin 19.25ng/ml (3.58-12.78ng/ml)
LDL, HDL, RBC count, and basically every other metric within normal values.
I did not test for FSH, FH and SHGB.

For side effects I had (have?) some acne breakout in my back and chest but nothing too serious and was quickly handled by using some local cream and anti-bacterial soap. Libido and mental side of things as normal. I need to mentioned that I have been taking dutasteride since the age of 24 in order to combat hair loss that runs in the family.

My question for the experts is what should I do from here on out in terms of dieting and supplementation? My goal would be to ideally go less than 12% body fat and then lean bulk until I reach ~80kg. As mentioned in the beginning I am willing to accept reasonable health risks.

Thank you for the time reading through all this. I will appreciate any comments and guidance.
 
Christ man. test doesnt do jack diddly shit. even 2grams of test wont do much besides give you strength, massive water retention and moonpie face.

Go get some actual anabolics, tren/deca, primo/eq and some proper orals, anadrol/anavar/superdrol or some of the harsher sarms they work quite nicely aswell

Dont fuck around with test. its an oldschool mentality. I personally keep test as low as possible around 150mg/week and if i didnt need test to maintain my sexual function then i wouldnt be injecting test at all

BTW i didnt read your massive text but I know what test does and doesn't. Lower the dose, and introduce other better compounds into the mix, you'd be surprised.
 
Powerlifting style training is not ideal for aesthetics, although it can help when combined with higher volume/isolation work.


Generally, to "look good" you gotta be at least a real 12% body fat or lower.

Note that MANY of the physical and mental benefits of testosterone only happen via conversion to DHT and dutasteride is very powerful. You have an unnatural ratio of T/DHT/E2.


You just gotta keep building more muscle/get stronger and then get leaner.


It seems like you are trying to also build muscle and strength in a deficit, this will work for beginners but eventually you will plateau and be spinning your wheels to nowhere. Pick one; focus on fat loss and strength maintenance or muscle gain and caloric surplus.


This game takes time, if it was easy, everybody would be jacked and ripped.


My suggestion, get some HGH to run long term, its proven to significantly help with body composition (muscle strength gain and fat loss). 3-4 IU daily is a good dose for that. You can also consider adding more AAS to the stack but that's a whole other conversation and not the main issue here.
 
Christ man. test doesnt do jack diddly shit. even 2grams of test wont do much besides give you strength, massive water retention and moonpie face.

Go get some actual anabolics, tren/deca, primo/eq and some proper orals, anadrol/anavar/superdrol or some of the harsher sarms they work quite nicely aswell

Dont fuck around with test. its an oldschool mentality. I personally keep test as low as possible around 150mg/week and if i didnt need test to maintain my sexual function then i wouldnt be injecting test at all

BTW i didnt read your massive text but I know what test does and doesn't. Lower the dose, and introduce other better compounds into the mix, you'd be surprised.
Thank you for your reply, and although it is a shame that you didn't go through the the whole text, I appreciate the response nonetheless.
I haven't had any noticeable "bloating" as result of water retention but you could say during the peak of the bulk I certainly lost some muscle definition.

Regarding stacking compounds although that is certainly an option, I do not think I have enough knowledge about their combined effects or side effects, nor can I find any studies that give out concrete information and statistics.

If you could point out any resources apart from what is written in this forum and on Reddit, I would be grateful. Personal recommendations are also welcomed either as a direct message or a reply in this thread.
 
Thank you for your reply, and although it is a shame that you didn't go through the the whole text, I appreciate the response nonetheless.
I haven't had any noticeable "bloating" as result of water retention but you could say during the peak of the bulk I certainly lost some muscle definition.

Regarding stacking compounds although that is certainly an option, I do not think I have enough knowledge about their combined effects or side effects, nor can I find any studies that give out concrete information and statistics.

If you could point out any resources apart from what is written in this forum and on Reddit, I would be grateful. Personal recommendations are also welcomed either as a direct message or a reply in this thread.
what compounds pique your interest? Thought about what you're going to add to that test? You don't even do orals, right? That would be a good place to add in something. Traditional orals, sarms, prohormones, what do you fancy
 
Powerlifting style training is not ideal for aesthetics, although it can help when combined with higher volume/isolation work.


Generally, to "look good" you gotta be at least a real 12% body fat or lower.

Note that MANY of the physical and mental benefits of testosterone only happen via conversion to DHT and dutasteride is very powerful. You have an unnatural ratio of T/DHT/E2.


You just gotta keep building more muscle/get stronger and then get leaner.


It seems like you are trying to also build muscle and strength in a deficit, this will work for beginners but eventually you will plateau and be spinning your wheels to nowhere. Pick one; focus on fat loss and strength maintenance or muscle gain and caloric surplus.


This game takes time, if it was easy, everybody would be jacked and ripped.


My suggestion, get some HGH to run long term, its proven to significantly help with body composition (muscle strength gain and fat loss). 3-4 IU daily is a good dose for that. You can also consider adding more AAS to the stack but that's a whole other conversation and not the main issue here.
Thank you for your response.

Regarding the "aesthetic" side of things, there is probably a correlation between perceived results and glycogen depletion during the cut. If I compare the pumped look right at the start of this journey to my current image, the difference is quite significant indeed. (I do believe once I raise the calorie intake by a few hundred thus increasing glycogen concentration, perhaps with the aid of some creatine? I would see some noticeable improvements)

Regarding health markers, indeed compared to a natural person my levels are elevated as to be expected, but may I know how you were able to calculate DHT levels, and what do you mean with "unnatural ratio" precisely?

Indeed trying to increase muscle mass and decrease body fat is getting increasingly difficult the leaner I become but still I do notice improvements on a monthly basis.

About HGH, I am aware of the beneficial effects but unfortunately I sourcing it through a doctor might not be possible and while I haven't looked extensively on UGL sources it seems to be quite expensive I were to use it for a prolonged period of time. Although currently I am hesitant even thinking of adding additional compounds due to my lack of research and publicly available human studies, I would like to hear some recommendations either in this thread or though a pm.

Thank you for your time responding to my thread.
 
what compounds piques your interest? Thought about what you're going to add to that test? You don't even do orals, right? That would be a good place to add in something. Traditional orals, sarms, prohormones, what do you fancy
I haven't touched anything oral, and to be honest I would prefer the injectable route since there seems to be a common opinion on liver toxicity which I would like to avoid if possible. Regarding compound selection, ideally it would have to be something that I can read studies about it being used on humans (rat-related studies as in case of SARMS is a first indicative but not always 1:1 comparable in case of human usage) or at least having circumstantial evidence though years of human usage.
 
Thank you for your response.

Regarding the "aesthetic" side of things, there is probably a correlation between perceived results and glycogen depletion during the cut. If I compare the pumped look right at the start of this journey to my current image, the difference is quite significant indeed. (I do believe once I raise the calorie intake by a few hundred thus increasing glycogen concentration, perhaps with the aid of some creatine? I would see some noticeable improvements)

Regarding health markers, indeed compared to a natural person my levels are elevated as to be expected, but may I know how you were able to calculate DHT levels, and what do you mean with "unnatural ratio" precisely?

Indeed trying to increase muscle mass and decrease body fat is getting increasingly difficult the leaner I become but still I do notice improvements on a monthly basis.

About HGH, I am aware of the beneficial effects but unfortunately I sourcing it through a doctor might not be possible and while I haven't looked extensively on UGL sources it seems to be quite expensive I were to use it for a prolonged period of time. Although currently I am hesitant even thinking of adding additional compounds due to my lack of research and publicly available human studies, I would like to hear some recommendations either in this thread or though a pm.

Thank you for your time responding to my thread.

When was your last diet break or carb refeed? Your carbs are fairly high though, so you shouldnt be depleted of glycogen.


After months of cutting, you need to start incorporating some refeeds/breaks to reset your leptin levels. BUT your carbs are already decent.


HGH at HRT doses from good sponsors is fairly affordable and the quality of life and physical/mental benefits are significant. HGH is underrated and something of a hidden gem of bodybuilding/powerlifting nobody tells you about but everybody uses.
 
I haven't touched anything oral, and to be honest I would prefer the injectable route since there seems to be a common opinion on liver toxicity which I would like to avoid if possible. Regarding compound selection, ideally it would have to be something that I can read studies about it being used on humans (rat-related studies as in case of SARMS is a first indicative but not always 1:1 comparable in case of human usage) or at least having circumstantial evidence though years of human usage.

Anavar is probably the most well tolerated and studied oral. Great for cutting and leaning out.
 
Your results are not the best but ok for your first cycle.

Maybe you should run the next cycle for a longer time and start with the real shit.
No big doses needed, just the right compounds.


125mg Test E/C
350mg NPP
350mg Mast E

6iu GH
10iu fast acting Insulin
this is terrible advice

yes lets suddenly add in 4 compounds that the op has never used before and doesnt know how he will react to
 
this is terrible advice

yes lets suddenly add in 4 compounds that the op has never used before and doesnt know how he will react to
its not terrible. the gh and insulin was obviously hyperbole. but a low dose of npp and mast is good advice, it is certainly miles better than doing 350mg of test standalone cuz that shit wont do jack diddly shit, might aswell be natty at that point

the only bad advice in julians post is the lack of an oral. Always gotta have an oral for that pow wow
 
Guy just got into this and you are telling him to take Insulin, are you for real?
Your results are not the best but ok for your first cycle.

Maybe you should run the next cycle for a longer time and start with the real shit.
No big doses needed, just the right compounds.


125mg Test E/C
350mg NPP
350mg Mast E

6iu GH
10iu fast acting Insulin
 
its not terrible. the gh and insulin was obviously hyperbole. but a low dose of npp and mast is good advice, it is certainly miles better than doing 350mg of test standalone cuz that shit wont do jack diddly shit, might aswell be natty at that point

the only bad advice in julians post is the lack of an oral. Always gotta have an oral for that pow wow
850mg of steroids plus hgh is low dose?
LOL

Op probably just need to fix his diet and not pile up a bunch of drugs.
 
Please explain how test “doesn’t do shit” please explain how test only affects strength and won’t (with the correct) dose in a surplus. As well as a dialed in hypertrophy put on mass.


There is nothing test can’t do for you. It is literally the most studied AAS on the planet. The idea that 2g of test won’t do anything is asinine and laughable. Sure tren is stronger and has better nutrient partitioning, but is fucking toxic. Are you saying Deca doesn’t cause water retention? You suggested it. Are you saying Primo is more anabolic than testosterone? As you recommended that as well. If you are you are really that worried about a bit of water because mOoN FaCe while throwing away years of success and safety of testosterone. Maybe this isn’t for you and longevity Isn’t a concern.

Just as important as testosterone is, the ratio of testosterone to Estrogen is equally important.

It’s neurologically protective as well as cardio protective. It also reduces the risk of injury.

I’m not saying tren doesn’t have its place. If you enter a contest prep you most definitely need it. That and most of these other compounds are unnecessary in the recreational lifters toolbox.

It’s the equivalent of telling a fatty that they need DNP to loose weight.

@Golfis

For the average recreational lifter. Testosterone more than enough with a great safety profile that we have spend a shit time studying.

Bulking, Cutting, Recomp. Testosterone will work wonders for all of these if you eat and train for it.


















Christ man. test doesnt do jack diddly shit. even 2grams of test wont do much besides give you strength, massive water retention and moonpie face.

Go get some actual anabolics, tren/deca, primo/eq and some proper orals, anadrol/anavar/superdrol or some of the harsher sarms they work quite nicely aswell

Dont fuck around with test. its an oldschool mentality. I personally keep test as low as possible around 150mg/week and if i didnt need test to maintain my sexual function then i wouldnt be injecting test at all

BTW i didnt read your massive text but I know what test does and doesn't. Lower the dose, and introduce other better compounds into the mix, you'd be surprised.
 
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