60 yr old male first starting hgh

[New York Tax Lawyer]

Hello all, I'm a 60 year old male just starting hgh. I'm 5'8", 170lbs. Prob 18% b.f.
Im starting my 4th week on 2 iu daily.
What should I expect physically, what should I look out for?
Thanks all

 

[krom808]

Training program?

 

[New York Tax Lawyer]

Not a lot of training: mostly cardio and lite resistance

 

[Mike Oxbig]

I wouldn't expect much muscle gain, maybe a bit of fat loss in due time. It's going to take a while longer to start seeing results.

Where did you buy it from?

 

[New York Tax Lawyer]

I'm not looking for much in muscle growth, more interested in the anti aging part. But why do you say that, because of the lack of exercise?

 

[Dr JIM]

Well what you should expect is nothing more than a placebo effect if the GH your using is a GENERIC brand.

However IF the GH is Pharm Grade, joint pains and carpal tunnel symptoms occur more frequently at your age.

If your GTG thereafter and can tolerate the MS symptoms, an improvement in LBM typically begins at about week 6--8, especially if you are performing aerobic exercises in addition to light full ROM FREE WEIGHTS, IME.

jimmy

 

[foreveryoung]

Well what you should expect is nothing more than a placebo effect if the GH your using is a GENERIC brand.

However IF the GH is Pharm Grade, joint pains and carpal tunnel symptoms occur more frequently at your age.

If your GTG thereafter and can tolerate the MS symptoms, an improvement in LBM typically begins at about week 6--8, especially if you are performing aerobic exercises in addition to light full ROM FREE WEIGHTS, IME.

jimmy

there must be some good "generic" hgh out there


but I have a question, do you think one would notice a visible difference in facial skin appearance, collagen, skin tightness, etc. after a couple of months of 2iu per day?

how about greying hair, does hgh have any effect at all on slowing or reversing this process?

 

[Dr JIM]

No!
Very unlikely, IMO

 

[Michael Scally MD]

At 2 IU, you will see some positive benefits. If you have any joint side effects, they should be minimal at this dose. The following is a good review of hGH and TRT. One of the author's wrote me about his use of hGH and how much he thinks it has helped his QoL.

Giannoulis MG, Martin FC, Nair KS, Umpleby AM, Sonksen P. Hormone Replacement Therapy and Physical Function in Healthy Older Men. Time to Talk Hormones? Endocr Rev. http://edrv.endojournals.org/content/early/2012/03/19/er.2012-1002.abstract

Improving physical function and mobility in a continuously expanding elderly population emerges as a high priority of medicine today. Muscle mass, strength/power, and maximal exercise capacity are major determinants of physical function, and all decline with aging. This contributes to the incidence of frailty and disability observed in older men. Furthermore, it facilitates the accumulation of body fat and development of insulin resistance.

Muscle adaptation to exercise is strongly influenced by anabolic endocrine hormones and local load-sensitive autocrine/paracrine growth factors. GH, IGF-I, and testosterone (T) are directly involved in muscle adaptation to exercise because they promote muscle protein synthesis, whereas T and locally expressed IGF-I have been reported to activate muscle stem cells. Although exercise programs improve physical function, in the long-term most older men fail to comply. The GH/IGF-I axis and T levels decline markedly with aging, whereas accumulating evidence supports their indispensable role in maintaining physical function integrity.

Several studies have reported that the administration of T improves lean body mass and maximal voluntary strength in healthy older men. On the other hand, most studies have shown that administration of GH alone failed to improve muscle strength despite amelioration of the detrimental somatic changes of aging. Both GH and T are anabolic agents that promote muscle protein synthesis and hypertrophy but work through separate mechanisms, and the combined administration of GH and T, albeit in only a few studies, has resulted in greater efficacy than either hormone alone. Although it is clear that this combined approach is effective, this review concludes that further studies are needed to assess the long-term efficacy and safety of combined hormone replacement therapy in older men before the medical rationale of prescribing hormone replacement therapy for combating the sarcopenia of aging can be established.

 

[Dr JIM]

Excellent synopsis Dr S.

 

[foreveryoung]

thanks Doc's

I am always wondering about adding in hgh, it is very expensive and like Jim mentioned unless you are getting it prescribed then it might not be what it is supposed to be, so the concern of value is there...... peptides are touted by many to be just as good or better, but again that is kind of uncharted territory when it comes to scientific proof, but it is intriguing as well

I also wonder about tren's so called effect on igf1 levels and whether or not it might make hgh supplementation less of a concern

 

[Michael Scally MD]

1 MG = 3 IU; Any dose higher than 1 MG will almost be a guarantee of some joint stiffness/pain.

Gasco V, Prodam F, Grottoli S, et al. GH therapy in adult GH deficiency: a review of treatment schedules and the evidence for low starting doses. Eur J Endocrinol 2013;168(3):R55-66. THERAPY OF ENDOCRINE DISEASE: GH therapy in adult GH deficiency: A review of treatment schedules and the evidence for low starting doses

Recombinant human GH has been licensed for use in adult patients with GH deficiency (GHD) for over 15 years. Early weight- and surface area-based dosing regimens were effective but resulted in supraphysiological levels of IGF1 and increased incidence of side effects. Current practice has moved towards individualised regimens, starting with low GH doses and gradually titrating the dose according to the level of serum IGF1 to achieve an optimal dose. Here we present the evidence supporting the dosing recommendations of current guidelines and consider factors affecting dose responsiveness and parameters of treatment response. The published data discussed here lend support for the use of low GH dosing regimens in adult GHD. The range of doses defined as 'low dose' in the studies discussed here ( approximately 1-4 mg/week) is in accordance with those recommended in current guidelines and encompasses the dose range recommended by product labels.

 

[New York Tax Lawyer]

Well what you should expect is nothing more than a placebo effect if the GH your using is a GENERIC brand.

However IF the GH is Pharm Grade, joint pains and carpal tunnel symptoms occur more frequently at your age.

If your GTG thereafter and can tolerate the MS symptoms, an improvement in LBM typically begins at about week 6--8, especially if you are performing aerobic exercises in addition to light full ROM FREE WEIGHTS, IME.

jimmy

I do have pain in my thighs, hands, and my biceps, so I should be happy its working... (cant wait until the pain goes away...)

 

[cobra500]

I'm curious how those taking over 4iu's daily are able to overcome joint stiffness/pain? Are they taking something else to counteract it or just dealing with it?

 

[Pericles]

NYL: To summarize, you need to have your diet and training in order. Weight training is absolutely critical! At your age I recommend using machines, and work w/ a personal trainer to establish a solid routine. I also recommend splitting your body into 2 groups (usually upper/lower). Weight train 3 times a week.

Do cardio 3 times a week. The GH would work much better if you followed the above advice, and went on 200 mgs of injectable test per week. Docs will start you on topical test, which is primarily useless.

 

[New York Tax Lawyer]

NYL: To summarize, you need to have your diet and training in order. Weight training is absolutely critical! At your age I recommend using machines, and work w/ a personal trainer to establish a solid routine. I also recommend splitting your body into 2 groups (usually upper/lower). Weight train 3 times a week.

Do cardio 3 times a week. The GH would work much better if you followed the above advice, and went on 200 mgs of injectable test per week. Docs will start you on topical test, which is primarily useless.

Thank you Pericles, that's the advise I'm looking for. I have been on 425 test inject every 2 weeks, that's been for a while. Just started the hgh, Hyg. How long before I see results do you think? I know I need to exercise more

 

[Dr JIM]

Whether or not TT is "useful" while supplementing with GH depends upon the patients TT level and not it's mode of administration, especially if used correctly.

OP is the GH Pharm grade?

 

[Pericles]

Thank you Pericles, that's the advise I'm looking for. I have been on 425 test inject every 2 weeks, that's been for a while. Just started the hgh, Hyg. How long before I see results do you think? I know I need to exercise more

You absolutely need to do the work. Once you are training regularly, thanks in part to the tst and GH, it will be the best part of the day.

However, your test injection schedule is a HUGE mistake. You will have insane spiking and dipping. Go 200 mgs once a week, or better yet, 125 mgs e5d.

You are not averse to Lawyer jokes, are you?

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Thank you Pericles, that's the advise I'm looking for. I have been on 425 test inject every 2 weeks, that's been for a while. Just started the hgh, Hyg. How long before I see results do you think? I know I need to exercise more

The most immediate side effect to be aware of is erythrocytosis - high hemoglobin/hematocrit. In another thread, aspects of this are discussed (use search) and possible causes (hepcidin).

Coviello AD, Kaplan B, Lakshman KM, Chen T, Singh AB, Bhasin S. Effects of Graded Doses of Testosterone on Erythropoiesis in Healthy Young and Older Men. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2008;93(3):914-9. Effects of Graded Doses of Testosterone on Erythropoiesis in Healthy Young and Older Men

Context: Erythrocytosis is a dose-limiting adverse effect of testosterone therapy, especially in older men.

Objective: Our objective was to compare the dose-related changes in hemoglobin and hematocrit in young and older men and determine whether age-related differences in erythropoietic response to testosterone can be explained by changes in erythropoietin and soluble transferrin receptor (sTfR) levels.

Design: We conducted a secondary analysis of data from a testosterone dose-response study in young and older men who received long-acting GnRH agonist monthly plus one of five weekly doses of testosterone enanthate (25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg im) for 20 wk.

Setting: The study took place at a General Clinical Research Center.

Participants: Participants included 60 older men aged 60-75 yr and 61 young men aged 19-35 yr.

Outcome Measures: Outcome measures included hematocrit and hemoglobin and serum erythropoietin and sTfR levels.

Results: Hemoglobin and hematocrit increased significantly in a linear, dose-dependent fashion in both young and older men in response to graded doses of testosterone (P < 0.0001). The increases in hemoglobin and hematocrit were significantly greater in older than young men. There was no significant difference in percent change from baseline in erythropoietin or sTfR levels across groups in either young or older men. Changes in erythropoietin or sTfR levels were not significantly correlated with changes in total or free testosterone levels.

Conclusions: Testosterone has a dose-dependent stimulatory effect on erythropoiesis in men that is more pronounced in older men. The testosterone-induced rise in hemoglobin and hematocrit and age-related differences in response to testosterone therapy may be mediated by factors other than erythropoietin and sTfR.

 

[cvictorg]

Hello all, I'm a 60 year old male just starting hgh. I'm 5'8", 170lbs. Prob 18% b.f.
Im starting my 4th week on 2 iu daily.
What should I expect physically, what should I look out for?
Thanks all

Doctor prescribed or buying junk over the web?