A GH and fat loss protocol (rhGH lipolysis) that is science-based

[songsofpyramids]

what I took from the author, and I'm in no way attempting to speak for him, but rather to restate what I think was said in attempt to test my own understanding:

it's silly to refrain from eating after an hgh shot because the hgh is going to be really doing its thing about 3-4 hours later. So no sense in taking a shot, then waiting an hour to eat, because you're getting a blood glucose response from the hgh shot, then you're getting a second response from the food an hour or so later. You're just prolonging the insulin response over your "fed" window.

So if your goal is fat loss, with the idea to get blood glucose low as fast as possible and as long as possible, then eat and take your hgh at the same time -- you'll get the blood glucose response from both the meal and the hgh and then you've got the next <however many> hours until you eat again to dispose of the glucose and start utilizing the free fatty acids that are still in circulation from the hgh shot a few hours earlier.

IOW...wake up, eat, take your shot, exercise 3-4 hours later. <repeat>

This was my understanding as well.

 

[Trades]

There is an interference effect between rhGH & secretagogues. GH partially negatively feeds back on its own secretion.

This is where I'm trying to get to the nitty gritty. and forgive me from asking layman questions and really dumbing this down:

Assumptions:
(1) endogenous GH is pulsed--meaning my body charges/recharges a load over time, blows a load over time, then absorbs the load over time in cells/tissue to do cool stuff.
(2) rhGH sends negative feedback to the part of my body that wants to blow the load. IOW if my body has rhGH in it, then my body gets a signal to say "hold off on blowing the endogenous GH load that you're charging up because we've got plenty of it right now"

If these assumptions are more or less correct, then wouldn't it also be correct to theorize that if I use GHRH/GHRP secretagogues to encourage a natural and potentially amplified pulse of endogenous GH, then wait the appropriate time to ensure that the "load is sufficiently blown" and "out for delivery" while at the same time adding to that existing pulse with a secondary delivery of rhGH -- wouldn't the effect in the blood serum be additive -- while the negative feedback would no longer be effecting the natural production (since it was already pulsed).

In other words, if the negative feedback only effects natural secretion, then wouldn't a simple solution or opportunity (to achieve additive effects of ghrp/ghrh + rhGH) be to just wait until the natural pulse was finished being secreted, then put your rhGH "on top".

 

[GuerillaPete]

This is where I'm trying to get to the nitty gritty. and forgive me from asking layman questions and really dumbing this down:

Assumptions:
(1) endogenous GH is pulsed--meaning my body charges/recharges a load over time, blows a load over time, then absorbs the load over time in cells/tissue to do cool stuff.
(2) rhGH sends negative feedback to the part of my body that wants to blow the load. IOW if my body has rhGH in it, then my body gets a signal to say "hold off on blowing the endogenous GH load that you're charging up because we've got plenty of it right now"

If these assumptions are more or less correct, then wouldn't it also be correct to theorize that if I use GHRH/GHRP secretagogues to encourage a natural and potentially amplified pulse of endogenous GH, then wait the appropriate time to ensure that the "load is sufficiently blown" and "out for delivery" while at the same time adding to that existing pulse with a secondary delivery of rhGH -- wouldn't the effect in the blood serum be additive -- while the negative feedback would no longer be effecting the natural production (since it was already pulsed).

In other words, if the negative feedback only effects natural secretion, then wouldn't a simple solution or opportunity (to achieve additive effects of ghrp/ghrh + rhGH) be to just wait until the natural pulse was finished being secreted, then put your rhGH "on top".

You are right in part but its the igf1 that gets elevated and causes the interference to some extent .
That being said i had igf1 levels over 500 on peptides and 3iu hgh mixed so i don't know for sure.

 

[Type-IIx]

This is where I'm trying to get to the nitty gritty. and forgive me from asking layman questions and really dumbing this down:

Assumptions:
(1) endogenous GH is pulsed--meaning my body charges/recharges a load over time, blows a load over time, then absorbs the load over time in cells/tissue to do cool stuff.
(2) rhGH sends negative feedback to the part of my body that wants to blow the load. IOW if my body has rhGH in it, then my body gets a signal to say "hold off on blowing the endogenous GH load that you're charging up because we've got plenty of it right now"

If these assumptions are more or less correct, then wouldn't it also be correct to theorize that if I use GHRH/GHRP secretagogues to encourage a natural and potentially amplified pulse of endogenous GH, then wait the appropriate time to ensure that the "load is sufficiently blown" and "out for delivery" while at the same time adding to that existing pulse with a secondary delivery of rhGH -- wouldn't the effect in the blood serum be additive -- while the negative feedback would no longer be effecting the natural production (since it was already pulsed).

In other words, if the negative feedback only effects natural secretion, then wouldn't a simple solution or opportunity (to achieve additive effects of ghrp/ghrh + rhGH) be to just wait until the natural pulse was finished being secreted, then put your rhGH "on top".

Yes, I discuss how to rationally jointly use (not combine) secretagogues & rhGH in Bolus, but as you say a principal consideration is the time-course of this partial feedback interference.

It must be emphasized that this joint use (unlike combining Ghrelin mimetics & GHRH analogues) is merely additive as you say (1 + 4/5 = 9/5) and not synergistic (1 + 4/5 > 9/5). That is, rhGH dose-dependently augments 22-K-GH in circulation. Ghrelin mimetic + GHRH analogue greater than additively (1 + 4/5 > 9/5) augment GH (22- & 20-K [an inferior isoform] -GH) in circulation. The case of rhGH + Ghrelin mimetic + GHRH analogue should never occur because n/5 < 4/5 as a result of the known interference effect.

So, the decisionmaking about joint use turns on whether more rhGH is not straightforwardly better, e.g., based on financial & availability concerns, rather than for drug synergy.

All this is to say that rather than rhGH adding "on top" of secretagogue-stimulated GH, instead it must be added "after."

 

[Isrrike]

Have you released your book yet?

 

[HotPepper]

I'm wondering why DNP - even low dosage - is not worth to be noted. Especially if you want a low blood sugar level DNP is an opportunity.

 

[Type-IIx]

Have you released your book yet?

Still working on distribution.

I'm wondering why DNP - even low dosage - is not worth to be noted. Especially if you want a low blood sugar level DNP is an opportunity.

DNP's great so long as you accept its risks and the tradeoff is worth it for you. Not sure what it has to do with this rhGH protocol, and it's about as insulin sensitizing as Aspirin, so not reliable to lower blood sugar. But I don't admonish DNP's utility anywhere.

 

[BrockSamson42]

I promise that I am working on a way to get this out for you guys.

I pray so man, ill get 2 Phat Hard Covered copies for my friend and I if they're going to be manufactured. The Bible of HGH.

If hard cover wont be, maybe its possible
To take pre orders w/ a deposit for the copies as a limited edition first run print only? Would be legendary.

 

[BrockSamson42]

Yes, I discuss how to rationally jointly use (not combine) secretagogues & rhGH in Bolus, but as you say a principal consideration is the time-course of this partial feedback interference.

It must be emphasized that this joint use (unlike combining Ghrelin mimetics & GHRH analogues) is merely additive as you say (1 + 4/5 = 9/5) and not synergistic (1 + 4/5 > 9/5). That is, rhGH dose-dependently augments 22-K-GH in circulation. Ghrelin mimetic + GHRH analogue greater than additively (1 + 4/5 > 9/5) augment GH (22- & 20-K [an inferior isoform] -GH) in circulation. The case of rhGH + Ghrelin mimetic + GHRH analogue should never occur because n/5 < 4/5 as a result of the known interference effect.

So, the decisionmaking about joint use turns on whether more rhGH is not straightforwardly better, e.g., based on financial & availability concerns, rather than for drug synergy.

All this is to say that rather than rhGH adding "on top" of secretagogue-stimulated GH, instead it must be added "after."

So this brings up a question i wanted to ask. The idea is you would take hgh in the morning, and carry out the protocol as stated, eating at the apropriate window, as well as exercising and intake of caffine.

The question I have is instead of supplementing the remainder of the hgh pre bed. What about using ipamoralin with MOD GRF (or CJC no DAC) pre bed to aid in Sleep?

The idea is you would do this roughly 14- 16 hours after the large hgh injection in the morning with the ipamoralin with MOD there which would help Sleep as well as keep HGH and IGF levels elevated. I suffer from rhgh pre bed insomnia so I was wondering if this method would be additive as well? Not necessarily synergystic. But at least effective at the goal here which is improved Sleep quality with higher levels of desired hormones, because hgh itself used pre bed disrupts this sleep cycle.

 

[Type-IIx]

So this brings up a question i wanted to ask. The idea is you would take hgh in the morning, and carry out the protocol as stated, eating at the apropriate window, as well as exercising and intake of caffine.

The question I have is instead of supplementing the remainder of the hgh pre bed. What about using ipamoralin with MOD GRF (or CJC no DAC) pre bed to aid in Sleep?

The idea is you would do this roughly 14- 16 hours after the large hgh injection in the morning with the ipamoralin with MOD there which would help Sleep as well as keep HGH and IGF levels elevated. I suffer from rhgh pre bed insomnia so I was wondering if this method would be additive as well? Not necessarily synergystic. But at least effective at the goal here which is improved Sleep quality with higher levels of desired hormones, because hgh itself used pre bed disrupts this sleep cycle.

So long as the Ipamorelin & CJC-129... DAC/without is being used primarily for sleep because it is the drug that aids in your sleep better than anything else, then it makes good sense.

By 16 h there is often (significant) escape from suppression of pulsatile endogenous GH secretion, with some dose dependency (i.e., higher rhGH doses suppress GH secretion more fully than lower) but usually not restoration to full GH secretion. The time-course respect to restoration of endogenous GH secretion post-rGH bolus differs between (inter-) and within (intra-) individuals on the basis of factors like injection depth and dose. The mean for this in non-GHD subjects is usually basically 1 day (~ 22 h mean value).

You'll likely get a small-moderate GH secretion in the nighttime by doing this, and the same effect on sleep quality that you get from the combined GH secretagogues.

 

[freddymac]

@Type-IIx
What are your thoughts on bolus administration pre bed? For those of us who for lifestyle/job reasons can’t follow the protocol laid out in your post? In terms of relative efficacy. Is the there a hierarchy of dosing protocols in your view?

 

[songsofpyramids]

@Type-IIx
What are your thoughts on bolus administration pre bed? For those of us who for lifestyle/job reasons can’t follow the protocol laid out in your post? In terms of relative efficacy. Is the there a hierarchy of dosing protocols in your view?

I believe @Type-llx has said they personally do their Bolus before bed. I think it’s buried in this thread somewhere or in another

 

[BrockSamson42]

So, Regarding tesamorelin, The studies I see on a first glance all use 1 - 2mg each day. Is this a very high dose of the peptide? I don't know what an average dose would be and if it should be used in place of Ipamorelin for better sleep.

 

[Trades]

So, Regarding tesamorelin, The studies I see on a first glance all use 1 - 2mg each day. Is this a very high dose of the peptide? I don't know what an average dose would be and if it should be used in place of Ipamorelin for better sleep.

that's the dose range I've seen as well for tesamorelin. So then the reason it's not too popular is because of how expensive it is, given how much you need to daily dose, in comparison to how inexpensive good rhGH is these days.

for me personally (ymmv) none of the peptides give me better sleep than rhGH. Any GHRP I take in combo with mod-GRF (cjc-1295 no DAC) causes sleep disruptions. I wake up at 3-4am and that's it, I'm up, cortisol is spiked and it's time to go like it or not. I know you said that rhGH gives you insomnia, but you may also consider dipping your toe in the water with small runs of whatever peptides you are thinking about before jumping all-in; in the event that these peptides don't provide the sleep benefits you're looking for.

 

[Fattyone]

I’ve tried a few different dosing schedules and so far I’m liking it subQ around 4:30pm. Seems to be a good spot for me and getting better sleep.

 

[BrockSamson42]

Yeah ill just experiment before i Go
Wholesale mode but i realize now theyre different. Tesamorelin is just a stronger version of CJC 1295? Where as Ipamorelin Signals to release stored GH .

If I recall, Ipamorelin can be Dosed anywhere from 500mcg - 1mg daily ? Im not sure if its dose dependent of effectiveness. Then CJC is just 100mcg.

 

[Trades]

the "morelin's" are your GHRP's
the CJC's or mod-GRF are your GHRH's.

The morelin's stimulate release of GH, the CJC's amplify the pulse (IIRC)
If there's GH in the system, it suppresses secretion of GH, which is why Type-iix guy was saying to make sure you have sufficient time between rhGH dosing and peptide-secretegogue dosing to make sure the secretegogue's aren't being introduced in an already suppressed environment.

As i understand it, the GHRP evolution started with GHRP-6, then GHRP-2, then Ipam, then Tesa and the rest. Each have varying effects on cortisol and prolactin.

So, very roughly speaking, as I understand it, GHRP-6/GHRP-2/Ipam/Tesamorelin/whatever else morelin's are interchangeable from a GHRP perspective, although the dosing is slightly different. Dose effectiveness is not linear, meaning that running 250mcg of GHRP-6 is good, but running 250mcg of GHRP-6 is not 2x good, it's like 1.25x good. This is a crude explanation but hopefuly it makes sense.

As far as the dosing protocols of each.
For GHRP-2 & 6 I think it's 250mcg/dose recommended, as many as you can get in throughout the day, as long as you are dosing it fasted and then waiting an appropriate time after dosing to eat (like 30mins min)
For Ipam i've heard 500mcg-1mg a couple times per day is plenty.
For tesamorelin I've seen 1-2mg per day but i didn't look too much into it because of how expensive it is per dose compared to everything else.

With these GHRP's, you're also going to pair it with the GHRH -- which will probably be either CJC-1295 with DAC, or mod-GRF. The drug affinity complex allows the GHRH to stick around way longer, so think of it like a long ester anabolic.
Mod-GRF I do 150-250mcg with each GHRP dose.
CJC-1295 w/DAC I do same dosing as mod-GRF but every 3 days. So if I know I'm going to run GHRP 3x per day for 3 days, that means I run 1.5mg-2mg of CJC-1295 w/DAC every 3ish days.

I assume this is the "right" protocol from all the info I've been able to gather, but I'm still figuring out all the pieces myself, so constructive criticism is certainly welcome.

 

[Trades]

and I suspect when all is said and done that the reason secretagogues don't get more attention is because the smart money realized they are a pain in the ass to manage and rhGH is better, cheaper, and easier at the end of the day.

 

[songsofpyramids]

and I suspect when all is said and done that the reason secretagogues don't get more attention is because the smart money realized they are a pain in the ass to manage and rhGH is better, cheaper, and easier at the end of the day.

This exactly why I’m switching from peptides to rhGH. The ghrp/ghrh have given me great results but god damn is it a hassle. Also, I’ve not heard one person say they’ve had better results on ghrp/ghrh than on god old fashioned rhGH. I’m also no longer sold on them being any safer than exogenous gh after doing a ton of research. Seems about the same safety profile honestly.

 

[Isrrike]

So long as the Ipamorelin & CJC-129... DAC/without is being used primarily for sleep because it is the drug that aids in your sleep better than anything else, then it makes good sense.

By 16 h there is often (significant) escape from suppression of pulsatile endogenous GH secretion, with some dose dependency (i.e., higher rhGH doses suppress GH secretion more fully than lower) but usually not restoration to full GH secretion. The time-course respect to restoration of endogenous GH secretion post-rGH bolus differs between (inter-) and within (intra-) individuals on the basis of factors like injection depth and dose. The mean for this in non-GHD subjects is usually basically 1 day (~ 22 h mean value).

You'll likely get a small-moderate GH secretion in the nighttime by doing this, and the same effect on sleep quality that you get from the combined GH secretagogues.

What’s your opinion on this term in an mri report along with having liver cysts. And will gh grow these and this thing in the brain if it is a “lesion”?

Is it still safe to run gh in a bolus with this?
“
Nonspecific 4 mm subcortical T2 and FLAIR bright signal focus in the left frontal region. Partially empty sella. No evidence of intracranial space occupying lesion”