A GH and fat loss protocol (rhGH lipolysis) that is science-based

[GuerillaPete]

It doesn't harm rhGH-induced lipolysis to eat before or immediately after the bolus is the point. There's no logical justification for fasting around the rhGH dose aside from the user having a dietary regimen already in place, in which case fasting is permissible.

It does not harm fat loss in what context ?
If maximum fat loss is desired logic would say you should burn more calories from fat deposit if in a fasted state .
Also would a bolus dose before workout not be harmful for the heart ? Would it not promote extra enlargemant?

 

[eery]

It doesn't harm rhGH-induced lipolysis to eat before or immediately after the bolus is the point. There's no logical justification for fasting around the rhGH dose aside from the user having a dietary regimen already in place, in which case fasting is permissible.

But wouldnt the body preferrentally oxidize the consumed energy from the food instead of liberating it from your adipose in that situation?

 

[Type-IIx]

It does not harm fat loss in what context ?
If maximum fat loss is desired logic would say you should burn more calories from fat deposit if in a fasted state .
Also would a bolus dose before workout not be harmful for the heart ? Would it not promote extra enlargemant?

Please reread my post. It does not harm rhGH-induced lipolysis to administer the bolus in the post-prandial or post-absorptive state. If maximal fat loss is desired, then by your logic you may extend fasting intermittently to as long as you want, do as much fasted cardio as you want, and this merely goes to the dietary regimen the user is following. None of this logic affects the logic of rhGH dosing. Again, please reread the last reply... the user can stick to whatever dietary regimen they so choose.

Why would a bolus dose pre-workout pose a particular harmful for the heart? I've never seen any evidence to suggest this.

 

[Type-IIx]

But wouldnt the body preferrentally oxidize the consumed energy from the food instead of liberating it from your adipose in that situation?

Trying to remain intermittent fasting-agnostic: you may do what you'd like with morning fasting. Practically, at some point the user has to eat. My view is that the user has already fasted for 8 hr during sleep and can happily enjoy breakfast. The considerations surrounding rhGH administration do not align with a view that fasting in the morning is necessary. This belief seems to have originated in the early view of GH as a protein-sparing hormone during starvation.

Again, if the user eats breakfast, there is no impact of this on lipolysis as GH enhances lipolysis during exercise in the post-absorptive and post-prandial states.

 

[GuerillaPete]

Please reread my post. It does not harm rhGH-induced lipolysis to administer the bolus in the post-prandial or post-absorptive state. If maximal fat loss is desired, then by your logic you may extend fasting intermittently to as long as you want, do as much fasted cardio as you want, and this merely goes to the dietary regimen the user is following. None of this logic affects the logic of rhGH dosing. Again, please reread the last reply... the user can stick to whatever dietary regimen they so choose.

Why would a bolus dose pre-workout pose a particular harmful for the heart? I've never seen any evidence to suggest this.

Because of the large gh dose peaking when you have elevated heart rate for extended period of time(training) .
Have you tried this protocol you speak of or is it just theories based on what you read ?

 

[Type-IIx]

Because of the large gh dose peaking when you have elevated heart rate for extended period of time(training) .
Have you tried this protocol you speak of or is it just theories based on what you read ?

Do you have any evidence (citation or anything) to support your hypothesis that a large peak GH during training deleteriously alters cardiac functioning or remodeling?

Serious question: would it be more convincing to you whether this protocol is supported by evidence if I told you I routinely administer 16IU pre-workout and my heart is gtg? If so, neither the book nor this thread is for you.

 

[Bigdiddy]

He does have a pt . Is this from your own experience or what you read?!

 

[GuerillaPete]

Do you have any evidence (citation or anything) to support your hypothesis that a large peak GH during training deleteriously alters cardiac functioning or remodeling?

Serious question: would it be more convincing to you whether this protocol is supported by evidence if I told you I routinely administer 16IU pre-workout and my heart is gtg? If so, neither the book nor this thread is for you.

The heart being a muscle that is worked at the peak of gh is why i thought about this and also this being a concern of mine as i to use gh before cardio/workout.
How can you be sure your heart is fine?
As many bodybuilders pass away from heart problems and they semed to have missed the sings.
Yeah i would like to hear from multiple people that they are fine after doing this it would feel comforting .
I am of the opinion that Gh and orals also pre workout contribute to heart enlargement.
To me the safest way would be to train and then use gh and other anabolics to recover but i am no scientist are you one?

 

[Type-IIx]

If you guys are familiar with my posts you'll see that I use rhGH personally. I have personally used rhGH protocols for lipolysis, those that encompass anti-aging, and muscle anabolism. I have done the permutations based on limited availability/dosage. I have never done the rhIGF-I+rhGH protocols however.

 

[lankyOldIdiot]

If you guys are familiar with my posts you'll see that I use rhGH personally. I have personally used rhGH protocols for lipolysis, those that encompass anti-aging, and muscle anabolism. I have done the permutations based on limited availability/dosage. I have never done the rhIGF-I+rhGH protocols however.

Hello, I have a dumb question.

Insulin insensitivity would be great for dieting, correct?
And GH causes that. Would jacking up exogenous insulin and GH use a week or so before starting a diet help for the beginning of your diet?

The goal would be to enter the diet with no hunger because you're so insulin resistant that your fat stores are being used for energy with more priority.

 

[M@NU]

The heart being a muscle that is worked at the peak of gh is why i thought about this and also this being a concern of mine as i to use gh before cardio/workout.
How can you be sure your heart is fine?
As many bodybuilders pass away from heart problems and they semed to have missed the sings.
Yeah i would like to hear from multiple people that they are fine after doing this it would feel comforting .
I am of the opinion that Gh and orals also pre workout contribute to heart enlargement.
To me the safest way would be to train and then use gh and other anabolics to recover but i am no scientist are you one?

GH will still "affect the heart" like you describe it (enlargement) if you take it post workout or before bed.
the enlargement mainly comes from the increased IGF-1 and this will happen no matter when you inject.
The only thing pre workout could be different for some is acute BP effects.
Some people (usually those without a very clean diet and using high sodium pre) will get acute BP spikes with HGH (not sure why, maybe acute water retention or "pump, fullness")

 

[GuerillaPete]

If you guys are familiar with my posts you'll see that I use rhGH personally. I have personally used rhGH protocols for lipolysis, those that encompass anti-aging, and muscle anabolism. I have done the permutations based on limited availability/dosage. I have never done the rhIGF-I+rhGH protocols however.

Fair enough …. The thing is in this age everyone can go on pubmed or similar copy paste some informations or studies done on rats, old people, octopuses and make a book and sell for a quick buck !
Im always cautious when i see this i mean a dishwasher can make a book on rocket science but would that not be better done by scientists ?
I could write a cookbook but would Gordon Ramseys book not be better?
I mean if one is to write a book that helps people with results or mitigations sides i would like that person to have a background on the subject or at least wast experience of his own and other peoples experience meaning results , side effects bloodwork etc.

 

[GuerillaPete]

GH will still "affect the heart" like you describe it (enlargement) if you take it post workout or before bed.
the enlargement mainly comes from the increased IGF-1 and this will happen no matter when you inject.
The only thing pre workout could be different for some is acute BP effects.
Some people (usually those without a very clean diet and using high sodium pre) will get acute BP spikes with HGH (not sure why, maybe acute water retention or "pump, fullness")

Damage yes but would it be to the same extent?

 

[Bigdiddy]

I have seen multiple post when asked to clarify?

 

[MFAAS]

Is it possible metformin could prevent LVH and cardiac remodeling in those taking HGH?

I found this recently completed study: A randomized controlled trial of metformin on left ventricular hypertrophy in patients with coronary artery disease without diabetes: the MET-REMODEL trial - PubMed

Metformin had significant positive impact on cardiac functioning and structure. However is was in elderly diabetic patients. I was looking for Amy indication that insulin resistance ALONE could cause LVH, but it was always in the context of Type 2 Diabetes (T2DM) and obesity, SO unfortunately doesn't fit in with the population here. The study above though was very interesting!

It seems possible that some ofnthe deleterious effects of HGH on the heart are due to the insulin resistance and high blood sugar levels. In that case a dosing regimen such as this may actually be beneficial in preventing heart issues, rather than exacerbating them or speeding them up as some have recently posted.

The whole point is I don't think we really know 100%. Regardless, I guarantee you that the bodybuilders who died of cardiac issues were not ALL lifting at peak serum GH levels for years on end and THAT is what then did them in lol. There are so many factors at play. I am continuing to look into whether there'd any data solely on insulin resistance and cardiac remodeling. If anyone finds or knows of any studies or data on this subject please post it.

 

[Type-IIx]

Is it possible metformin could prevent LVH and cardiac remodeling in those taking HGH?

I found this recently completed study: A randomized controlled trial of metformin on left ventricular hypertrophy in patients with coronary artery disease without diabetes: the MET-REMODEL trial - PubMed

Metformin had significant positive impact on cardiac functioning and structure. However is was in elderly diabetic patients. I was looking for Amy indication that insulin resistance ALONE could cause LVH, but it was always in the context of Type 2 Diabetes (T2DM) and obesity, SO unfortunately doesn't fit in with the population here. The study above though was very interesting!

It seems possible that some ofnthe deleterious effects of HGH on the heart are due to the insulin resistance and high blood sugar levels. In that case a dosing regimen such as this may actually be beneficial in preventing heart issues, rather than exacerbating them or speeding them up as some have recently posted.

The whole point is I don't think we really know 100%. Regardless, I guarantee you that the bodybuilders who died of cardiac issues were not ALL lifting at peak serum GH levels for years on end and THAT is what then did them in lol. There are so many factors at play. I am continuing to look into whether there'd any data solely on insulin resistance and cardiac remodeling. If anyone finds or knows of any studies or data on this subject please post it.

There's some mechanistic (in rodents or in vitro) evidence that Met abrogates the increase in miR-1 expression ameliorating conduction delays in a model of myocardial infarction, and may attenuate left ventricular hypertrophy, but this data is not enough to conclude that Met has significant effects in humans on cardiac function and remodeling induced by AAS.

 

[giulopresti]

great stuff @Type-IIx , I've been using this protocol for about 5 weeks now (I started before reading your post as I "figured it out" by myself the mechanism of action reading various sources, but definitely is encouraging to read that there is a proven scientific explanation)

So far it awarded very nice results. But, unfortunately, I'm a little bit stuck; I'd like to avoid to further cat calories or increase cardio but would like to prolong the cut for another 2-3 weeks before going into a bulking phase.

I was thinking to add Yohimbine HCL in the morning, together with HGH, before fasted training.

Is there any contraindication in doing so? are the two products synergistic?
Any other advice on how to proceed?

 

[Type-IIx]

great stuff @Type-IIx , I've been using this protocol for about 5 weeks now (I started before reading your post as I "figured it out" by myself the mechanism of action reading various sources, but definitely is encouraging to read that there is a proven scientific explanation)

So far it awarded very nice results. But, unfortunately, I'm a little bit stuck; I'd like to avoid to further cat calories or increase cardio but would like to prolong the cut for another 2-3 weeks before going into a bulking phase.

I was thinking to add Yohimbine HCL in the morning, together with HGH, before fasted training.

Is there any contraindication in doing so? are the two products synergistic?
Any other advice on how to proceed?

There are no contraindications between Yohimbine and rhGH. While Yohimbine potently suppresses endogenous GH secretion, this is irrelevant when using rhGH in this manner. And yes, the two are synergistic or at least additive by acting at different receptors. That sounds fine, so long as you're a person that handles Yohimbine well and not taking any other drugs that interact poorly with it.

 

[giulopresti]

There are no contraindications between Yohimbine and rhGH. While Yohimbine potently suppresses endogenous GH secretion, this is irrelevant when using rhGH in this manner. And yes, the two are synergistic or at least additive by acting at different receptors. That sounds fine, so long as you're a person that handles Yohimbine well and not taking any other drugs that interact poorly with it.

thanks. I've never tried yohimbine before; so I will try at a low dose (10mg) for few days to see how my body reacts

 

[MFAAS]

thanks. I've never tried yohimbine before; so I will try at a low dose (10mg) for few days to see how my body reacts

Someone told me to try 1 mg, but I am sensitive to stims. You may want to look into it and start lower. It never hurts to start lower and ramp up!