MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
A GH and fat loss protocol (rhGH lipolysis) that is science-based
- Thread starter Type-IIx
- Start date
Type-IIx
Well-known Member
I'll investigate MK-677 more soon if people are interested, let me know, just like this post I suppose. I am interested in rhGH by way of focus on the IGF-I system. Though have knowledge, by consequence, of Ipamorelin/GHRP-2/GHRP-6/Hexarelin/Mod GRF 1-29. But I'm really interested in what works best and so with men, my focus is always going to be on rhGH and if women pose questions, direct them typically to the Ghrelin mimetics/GHRP agonists.
GuerillaPete
Well-known Member
Its in oral form and has long half life gives it the edge over other secretogouge’s.
This things also give it some specific side effects also witch are best mitigated by taking it 2x max 3x week.
Type-IIx
Well-known Member
What's been deterring me from really delving in to learning (caring) about MK677 is some feedback from guys that I respect that it brings all the sides of GH without the increase in IGF-I. It's apparently particularly egregious in promoting insulin resistance. I'm discussing with another guy right now and if I get the inclination I'll look into it more. Right now it seems to be a cheap, crappy (no offense meant) GH booster.
GuerillaPete
Well-known Member
Crappy compared with what? Other “gh boosters” or exogenous gh?
If you compare secretagogues like ghrp6/2 just the easy of one a day pill vs 3 fasted injections make it clear winner.
But i agree as a standalone i would only see its useful for 3 weeks maybe with slin would give great hunger and mass gain.
Maybe at and of a bulk when orals have killed appetite.
But its best 2x per week with Gh or other peptides mixed together make you secrete your own gh so that you have all molecular weight gh in your system like hcg for testosterone for the downstream effects on pregnenolone and dhea.
It has uses just not as a long term hgh replacement as side like you said do build up plus what in my experience anxiety also creeps in i think its do to having this constant hunger hormone running trough the body.
But every medicine overused becomes poison .
Type-IIx
Well-known Member
By the way, the guy I was waiting to hear his rationale for switching to Mk677 told me that it was because he went on vacation and ran out of rhGH, so he just hoped it was better than nothing. Not a ringing endorsement.
Jin23
Well-known Member
@Type-IIx what are your thoughts on using GH while doing keto? If the post prandial insulin response is non existent, then meal timing doesn't really matter, or ... is there an underlying mechanism - with the application of exogenous GH, especially in supraphysiological dosages - that negates this? Talking about loosing fat, but also in general, does GH change things for keto.
Type-IIx
Well-known Member
While I've seen data to suggest GH (endogenous) increases post-exercise ketosis (at least in untrained subjects), and the broad mechanisms of its regulation of human carbohydrate and lipid metabolism have been investigated, I doubt there'll be much hard science relevant to the use of supraphysiological rhGH while in ketosis in healthy subjects. I may have to make some spurious leaps of logic. But I want to investigate it a bit more deeply. One thought that comes to mind is that increased palmitate (due to increased consumption, presumably, of dietary fats plus rhGH; think about how GH increases circulating FFAs) may activate mTOR in human skeletal muscle while inhibiting AMPK. This is sort of spit balling, I'll get back to you with some findings.
Jin23
Well-known Member
Well ... that would kinda negate loosing fat. It would be interesting though, maybe it would impair fat loss a bit, but add much more to muscle retention ...
Yohimbe is an aphrodisiac you will be horny, i used it before sex it really does help. Also it is used medically to make panic attacks for people. So expect anxiety. Its best used fasted cardio and alowly ramping up to 25 mg. Where that is where fat burning takes effect. I never wanted to go past 10. Its not a good feeling
giulopresti
New Member
thanks for the additional info. Unfortunately I found out that I have to import the product from abroad so I will receive it next month.
I'm going to end my cut in a week or 2 and then start a bulk, so I will use it during the next cut in spring/summer
SwitchBlade
New Member
Thanks @Type-IIx for this piece. I would also be interested on the book...
I am still digesting all the info shared but I would like to get your feedback if I got it correctly. Considering that:
1) Meal 3 at 12am
2) Meal 4 (pre-workout) at 3pm
3) Training at ~5pm
4) Meal 5 (post workout) at 8pm
What would be the best time to inject the GH? 1hr after meal 4? It shall be IV right?
What about pre-fasted cardio? Do you think that the lipolytic effect is diminished by eating 2hr after the injection (wake up >inj > 30m later cardio> breakfast after cardio)?
Thanks.
I am still digesting all the info shared but I would like to get your feedback if I got it correctly. Considering that:
1) Meal 3 at 12am
2) Meal 4 (pre-workout) at 3pm
3) Training at ~5pm
4) Meal 5 (post workout) at 8pm
What would be the best time to inject the GH? 1hr after meal 4? It shall be IV right?
What about pre-fasted cardio? Do you think that the lipolytic effect is diminished by eating 2hr after the injection (wake up >inj > 30m later cardio> breakfast after cardio)?
Thanks.
Do you mean 12 pm? 12 am is midnight
SwitchBlade
New Member
Yes, my mistake
noon!
Jin23
Well-known Member
All this talk about meal timing ... You have to realize that there are several factor that contribute to how long it takes for you to digest food.
1. Your biology; how fast your stomach empties (this varies a lot, especially drugs like oral aas can hinder the stomach acidity, gut, etc.), how optimally you digest and absorb carbs, how much bille you are producing (this effects mostly the digestion of fats, but if fats aren't digesting quickly, that means the bolus of food that's going down, wont digest quickly), etc. etc. Lot's of factor.
2. What you eat and how much you eat! Needles to say, a 75g's of white rice with 250g's of chicken breasts and a bit of broccoly will digest much sooner then a bigger more fatty meal.
There are a lot of metabolic issues in the aas community. Foods stay in the gut for to long, people have inflamed guts, people have metabolic syndromes/issues, have gut disbiosys, etc.
What I'm pointing at is obvious, but let me underline it just in case; I would not count 100% that your food would be digested and your blood glucose levels low within the time frames suggested in this thread. There is really one way to be sure and that is to check you BG with a BG monitor. Better yet, get a continuous BG monitor. Those things are a god send. And, also, a side not, your fasted BG levels are not telling you the whole story about you being insulin resistant or having metabolic syndrome. Post prandial blood glucose levels are very important, as is post prandial insulin response (but you can't measure that unfortunately outside of a doctors lab).
The OP has some knowledge, but he is letting a lot out. Probably bc he charges for consultations. Not bashing on him or anything, gotta make a living, but am just stating for all the readers of this thread to not take all the things said here as gospel. Be careful with insulin resistance and GH use. Insulin resistance is the mother of all neurological desiasese's, especially in the brain where it leads to cognitive decline, alzeimers, dementia, etc.
And one more thing that hasn't been really stressed out enough in this thread and actually the opposite might have been structurally implied: you are not safe with eating carbs when using exorbitant amounts of GH. No matter how you time, space out, your meals.
Insulin resistance, as has been briefly mentioned, is also caused by high levels of IGF1, which competes for the same receptor as insulin. So if you have high levels of IGF1, if you are pinning 3, 4 + IU's of GH, you will be insulin resistant from that alone. So don't kid yourself that you are safe, if you eat 100g's of carbs at the same time when you pin. And then a nother 100g's of carbs 4 hours later and then more carbs in the evening and let's not mentione you had carbs for breakfast. That's hilarious.
There are really only two safe options. Low carb (that's like 100g's of carbs in a day, best before the workout so you have energy to train and away from GH as much as possible) and going keto. Also, intermittent fasting is IMO a must.
Again, brain insulin resistance is no joke as is peripheral insulin resistance. GH is a biatch, be careful.
MY 2 cents.
1. Your biology; how fast your stomach empties (this varies a lot, especially drugs like oral aas can hinder the stomach acidity, gut, etc.), how optimally you digest and absorb carbs, how much bille you are producing (this effects mostly the digestion of fats, but if fats aren't digesting quickly, that means the bolus of food that's going down, wont digest quickly), etc. etc. Lot's of factor.
2. What you eat and how much you eat! Needles to say, a 75g's of white rice with 250g's of chicken breasts and a bit of broccoly will digest much sooner then a bigger more fatty meal.
There are a lot of metabolic issues in the aas community. Foods stay in the gut for to long, people have inflamed guts, people have metabolic syndromes/issues, have gut disbiosys, etc.
What I'm pointing at is obvious, but let me underline it just in case; I would not count 100% that your food would be digested and your blood glucose levels low within the time frames suggested in this thread. There is really one way to be sure and that is to check you BG with a BG monitor. Better yet, get a continuous BG monitor. Those things are a god send. And, also, a side not, your fasted BG levels are not telling you the whole story about you being insulin resistant or having metabolic syndrome. Post prandial blood glucose levels are very important, as is post prandial insulin response (but you can't measure that unfortunately outside of a doctors lab).
The OP has some knowledge, but he is letting a lot out. Probably bc he charges for consultations. Not bashing on him or anything, gotta make a living, but am just stating for all the readers of this thread to not take all the things said here as gospel. Be careful with insulin resistance and GH use. Insulin resistance is the mother of all neurological desiasese's, especially in the brain where it leads to cognitive decline, alzeimers, dementia, etc.
And one more thing that hasn't been really stressed out enough in this thread and actually the opposite might have been structurally implied: you are not safe with eating carbs when using exorbitant amounts of GH. No matter how you time, space out, your meals.
Insulin resistance, as has been briefly mentioned, is also caused by high levels of IGF1, which competes for the same receptor as insulin. So if you have high levels of IGF1, if you are pinning 3, 4 + IU's of GH, you will be insulin resistant from that alone. So don't kid yourself that you are safe, if you eat 100g's of carbs at the same time when you pin. And then a nother 100g's of carbs 4 hours later and then more carbs in the evening and let's not mentione you had carbs for breakfast. That's hilarious.
There are really only two safe options. Low carb (that's like 100g's of carbs in a day, best before the workout so you have energy to train and away from GH as much as possible) and going keto. Also, intermittent fasting is IMO a must.
Again, brain insulin resistance is no joke as is peripheral insulin resistance. GH is a biatch, be careful.
MY 2 cents.
Last edited:
lankyOldIdiot
New Member
How are pros who run GH while bulking able to get away with it (for so long)?
Do they just take long breaks, fast, etc.? I'm assuming the ones who don't have "gh guts" and small waistlines are safe. A popular drug guru, Broderick Chavez, claims taking GH at night in the presence of carbs helps you grow.
I'm not doubting you at all. I just wonder how so many are able to seemingly avoid the bad effects.
Jin23
Well-known Member
Well, a lot don't get away with it, but you don't see or hear about those people as they never become so main stream, they must quit due to bad genetics, bad health way before that. The top pro's are genetic freaks and that includes immunity to aas related sides.
But in all honesty, for instance, how much ALS is there in BB? Like, if you don't use hcg or don't supplement with progesterone and you either cycle all the time or are on trt you don't produce progesterone, which is responsible for myelination of neurons (and other important things in the brain study link) and without it comes a host of issues like ALS, Multiple Sclerosis, for example ...
How many BB's have huge, and I mean HUGE visceral deposits of fat? Due to insulin use, excess carb intake, and also some insulin resistance due to GH? All of them lawl. And you know what visceral fat does? A shit ton of things. Including systemic inflammation and insulin/metabolic issues. Now, I presume you would find a lot of users with problems if you did a deep dive and worked in nsa or cia or something, but as a mere mortal you are not privy to this info. Also, a lot of it is hidden, nobody want's to admit that their personality changed and they started having fantasies of being fucked in the ass by a Thai transgender due to excess nandrolone use.
And also, cognitive decline is a slow process (for some it can be quick) and you don't notice it immediately. Also, when you catch it, you can reverse/halt it with dietary changes (keto, fasting, anti-inflammatory agents like cerbrolysine, naltrexone, etc.). But again, you wont hear about pro's crying to the general public about being fucked up in the head. Also, most mo-fo's are some stiff ass headed people, not the brightest of the bunch. Maybe they don't even notice that theyz aint so smarty pantsy any more. I mean the level of intellectual and meditative proves isn't excelling in the BB community, let's be honest.
Also, wait until all the current top level pro's get older. But then again, if you use enough insulin to offset any insulin resistance, idk, maybe there is less harm done. I'm not a neurobiologist, just a bro on the forum. But how many reading this topic are injecting slin? If ya'll worried about meal timing and stuff, you are probably not using insulin ...
malfeasance
Well-known Member
Is this a side effect of deca?
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