A GH and fat loss protocol (rhGH lipolysis) that is science-based

[lilhawk]

How are pros who run GH while bulking able to get away with it (for so long)?

Do they just take long breaks, fast, etc.? I'm assuming the ones who don't have "gh guts" and small waistlines are safe. A popular drug guru, Broderick Chavez, claims taking GH at night in the presence of carbs helps you grow.

I'm not doubting you at all. I just wonder how so many are able to seemingly avoid the bad effects.

They use massive amounts of insulin, and who says they avoid the bad effects? None of them post bloodwork for anyone to see.

 

[Jin23]

Is this a side effect of deca?

Yes. A well known side (sexual "deviancy" that is). It can manifest just by you watching more nasty porn or it may get full blown and you'll actually do some shit like that in real life. At some point, gay for pay, doesn't feel like your doing something you don't want to do actually. It also has tons of other neurotoxic effects that change your personality for the worst or can cause neurobiological pathologies ... Progestins are dangerous.

 

[GuerillaPete]

Yes. A well known side (sexual "deviancy" that is). It can manifest just by you watching more nasty porn or it may get full blown and you'll actually do some shit like that in real life. At some point, gay for pay, doesn't feel like your doing something you don't want to do actually. It also has tons of other neurotoxic effects that change your personality for the worst or can cause neurobiological pathologies ... Progestins are dangerous.

Why cant it change for the better?
Cant a gay person turn straight ?

 

[jJjburton]

Is this a side effect of deca?

The best one

 

[jJjburton]

Why cant it change for the better?
Cant a gay person turn straight ?

Exactly! Also now its people fucking people.

 

[Type-IIx]

@Type-IIx

what is your opinion on straight HGH-Frag regarding fat loss and sides/benefits profile?
thanks buddy

Not a fan at all! Some GH fragments are formed even by the E. coli process to manufacture rhGH and have to be purified out of the solution. These can somewhat speculatively be linked to an antigenic/immunogenic response that's seen, as in the formation of GH antibodies.

rhGH > *

 

[Type-IIx]

Good God, I leave you guys alone for one day and we get guys talking about gay for pay, progesterone, and the NSA.

 

[jJjburton]

Good God, I leave you guys alone for one day and we get guys talking about gay for pay, progesterone, and the NSA.

Its bodybuilding….or an attempt to bodybuild in many cases

 

[SwitchBlade]

Good God, I leave you guys alone for one day and we get guys talking about gay for pay, progesterone, and the NSA.

Looks like my question on the meal timing of your protocol woke some people worried with longevity and health markers of aas users...

 

[GuerillaPete]

Good God, I leave you guys alone for one day and we get guys talking about gay for pay, progesterone, and the NSA.

Your the voice of reason here without you this whole cult will burn to ashes .
Imagine leaving for a week and all people turning gay in your absence

 

[GuerillaPete]

Looks like my question on the meal timing of your protocol woke some people worried with longevity and health markers of aas users...

This was the spark that lit the fire sir

 

[MFAAS]

Not a fan at all! Some GH fragments are formed even by the E. coli process to manufacture rhGH and have to be purified out of the solution. These can somewhat speculatively be linked to an antigenic/immunogenic response that's seen, as in the formation of GH antibodies.

rhGH > *

hgh frag is garbage. It's just another gimmick peptide that doesn't do shit but cost you money.

Well, a lot don't get away with it, but you don't see or hear about those people as they never become so main stream, they must quit due to bad genetics, bad health way before that. The top pro's are genetic freaks and that includes immunity to aas related sides.

But in all honesty, for instance, how much ALS is there in BB? Like, if you don't use hcg or don't supplement with progesterone and you either cycle all the time or are on trt you don't produce progesterone, which is responsible for myelination of neurons (and other important things in the brain study link) and without it comes a host of issues like ALS, Multiple Sclerosis, for example ...

How many BB's have huge, and I mean HUGE visceral deposits of fat? Due to insulin use, excess carb intake, and also some insulin resistance due to GH? All of them lawl. And you know what visceral fat does? A shit ton of things. Including systemic inflammation and insulin/metabolic issues. Now, I presume you would find a lot of users with problems if you did a deep dive and worked in nsa or cia or something, but as a mere mortal you are not privy to this info. Also, a lot of it is hidden, nobody want's to admit that their personality changed and they started having fantasies of being fucked in the ass by a Thai transgender due to excess nandrolone use.

And also, cognitive decline is a slow process (for some it can be quick) and you don't notice it immediately. Also, when you catch it, you can reverse/halt it with dietary changes (keto, fasting, anti-inflammatory agents like cerbrolysine, naltrexone, etc.). But again, you wont hear about pro's crying to the general public about being fucked up in the head. Also, most mo-fo's are some stiff ass headed people, not the brightest of the bunch. Maybe they don't even notice that theyz aint so smarty pantsy any more. I mean the level of intellectual and meditative proves isn't excelling in the BB community, let's be honest.

Also, wait until all the current top level pro's get older. But then again, if you use enough insulin to offset any insulin resistance, idk, maybe there is less harm done. I'm not a neurobiologist, just a bro on the forum. But how many reading this topic are injecting slin? If ya'll worried about meal timing and stuff, you are probably not using insulin ...

I am very interested to see what happens to the current pros. NAC apparently can mitigate the neurological sides? I would think doing a round of semax, or microdosing mushrooms after you go off cycle would be a good way to recover.

 

[Jin23]

I am very interested to see what happens to the current pros. NAC apparently can mitigate the neurological sides? I would think doing a round of semax, or microdosing mushrooms after you go off cycle would be a good way to recover.

Actually, you want to use that stuff on cycle. Aas cause a lot of neuro inflammation. So stuff like cerebrolysine, semax, naltrexone, lot's of EPA, SSRI's especially bc aas lower serotonin a lot ...

 

[Type-IIx]

Thanks @Type-IIx for this piece. I would also be interested on the book...

I am still digesting all the info shared but I would like to get your feedback if I got it correctly. Considering that:
1) Meal 3 at 12am
2) Meal 4 (pre-workout) at 3pm
3) Training at ~5pm
4) Meal 5 (post workout) at 8pm

What would be the best time to inject the GH? 1hr after meal 4? It shall be IV right?

What about pre-fasted cardio? Do you think that the lipolytic effect is diminished by eating 2hr after the injection (wake up >inj > 30m later cardio> breakfast after cardio)?

Thanks.

By this protocol, you'd administer the bolus at 4 pm.

Pre-fasted cardio is fine, it's just unnecessary with rhGH use. The belief in this practice seems to have arisen from the early view of GH as a protein sparing hormone secreted during starvation. I believe you should eat 4-4.5 hr post-bolus (and post-training; cardio at the end of a session would make more sense to me, but you can incorporate your fasted cardio early AM or wherever).

 

[Type-IIx]

All this talk about meal timing ... You have to realize that there are several factor that contribute to how long it takes for you to digest food.

1. Your biology; how fast your stomach empties (this varies a lot, especially drugs like oral aas can hinder the stomach acidity, gut, etc.), how optimally you digest and absorb carbs, how much bille you are producing (this effects mostly the digestion of fats, but if fats aren't digesting quickly, that means the bolus of food that's going down, wont digest quickly), etc. etc. Lot's of factor.

If you have the ability to monitor serum FFAs in circulation, test your levels every .5-1 hr, then excellent, do this. Otherwise, relying on published data is a sound practice.

2. What you eat and how much you eat! Needles to say, a 75g's of white rice with 250g's of chicken breasts and a bit of broccoly will digest much sooner then a bigger more fatty meal.

Effects glucose homeostasis a bit less than rhGH, and a bit difficult to test in practice.

There are a lot of metabolic issues in the aas community. Foods stay in the gut for to long, people have inflamed guts, people have metabolic syndromes/issues, have gut disbiosys, etc.

Nonsense. We have a lot of lunatics in the AAS community that believe this about themselves, but not a lot of people with legitimate leaky gut syndrome, Crohn's disease, nor Celiac disease.

What I'm pointing at is obvious, but let me underline it just in case; I would not count 100% that your food would be digested and your blood glucose levels low within the time frames suggested in this thread. There is really one way to be sure and that is to check you BG with a BG monitor. Better yet, get a continuous BG monitor. Those things are a god send. And, also, a side not, your fasted BG levels are not telling you the whole story about you being insulin resistant or having metabolic syndrome. Post prandial blood glucose levels are very important, as is post prandial insulin response (but you can't measure that unfortunately outside of a doctors lab).

My data is founded principally upon averages seen in circulating FFAs as well as, secondarily, upon the theory that GLUT4 translocation should lower blood glucose concentrations.

The OP has some knowledge, but he is letting a lot out. Probably bc he charges for consultations. Not bashing on him or anything, gotta make a living, but am just stating for all the readers of this thread to not take all the things said here as gospel. Be careful with insulin resistance and GH use. Insulin resistance is the mother of all neurological desiasese's, especially in the brain where it leads to cognitive decline, alzeimers, dementia, etc.

I haven't put much out actually, but it's great that it's been seen as so valuable. I do indeed do long-term consultation for people, but not much is attributable (actually, not any) is attributable to this thread. Most are guys that don't even know me from the forums.

And one more thing that hasn't been really stressed out enough in this thread and actually the opposite might have been structurally implied: you are not safe with eating carbs when using exorbitant amounts of GH. No matter how you time, space out, your meals.

I can tell you're a keto guy, this obsession with glucose. We like glucose here, it provides ATP for resistance training and anaerobic efforts.

Insulin resistance, as has been briefly mentioned, is also caused by high levels of IGF1, which competes for the same receptor as insulin.

There's IR, IGF-IR, and IGF-IR/IR hybrid receptors.

So if you have high levels of IGF1, if you are pinning 3, 4 + IU's of GH, you will be insulin resistant from that alone.

No.

So don't kid yourself that you are safe, if you eat 100g's of carbs at the same time when you pin.

More carbz are dangerous nonsense.

And then a nother 100g's of carbs 4 hours later and then more carbs in the evening and let's not mentione you had carbs for breakfast. That's hilarious.
There are really only two safe options. Low carb (that's like 100g's of carbs in a day, best before the workout so you have energy to train and away from GH as much as possible) and going keto. Also, intermittent fasting is IMO a must.

Bro: keto is dumb. We like to get stronger here.

Again, brain insulin resistance is no joke as is peripheral insulin resistance. GH is a biatch, be careful.

MY 2 cents.

Brain insulin resistance, now that's interesting.

 

[Type-IIx]

Actually, you want to use that stuff on cycle. Aas cause a lot of neuro inflammation. So stuff like cerebrolysine, semax, naltrexone, lot's of EPA, SSRI's especially bc aas lower serotonin a lot ...

This is something that L. Rea seemed to think: that AAS withdrawal caused a rebound in cortisol. That was false.

This is all, also, false.

 

[MFAAS]

Actually, you want to use that stuff on cycle. Aas cause a lot of neuro inflammation. So stuff like cerebrolysine, semax, naltrexone, lot's of EPA, SSRI's especially bc aas lower serotonin a lot ...

NAC definitely yet, use on cycle. The issue I see is that anabolics already cause changes in the reward pathway in the brain. Taking drugs that increase BDNF, NGF, etc., while ON cycle could theoretically exacerbate the brain changes as the growth factors could speed up the changes. Just a hypothesis of mine. Then when you go off and your brain chemistry goes back to normal, then you can hopefully heal faster.

 

[Jin23]

NAC definitely yet, use on cycle. The issue I see is that anabolics already cause changes in the reward pathway in the brain. Taking drugs that increase BDNF, NGF, etc., while ON cycle could theoretically exacerbate the brain changes as the growth factors could speed up the changes. Just a hypothesis of mine. Then when you go off and your brain chemistry goes back to normal, then you can hopefully heal faster.

Hm, yeah, I guess from a neuroplastic stand point this makes sense. You could affirm behavioral and emotional patterns much easier if you increased neuroplasticity. But, I was referring more towards decreasing neuroinflammation then neuroplasticity. I realize that the two are tightly interlinked, especially seeing as the substances and also behavioral practices (like meditation for instance) that decrease neuroinflammation also almost always increase neurotrophic factors and with that induce neuroplasticity, but still, letting neuroinflammation ruin your brain is a no go. But I do agree with the notion of increasing plasticity on cycle could lead, albeit in a small amount, to what you pointed out. But it's probably negligible.

Protecting your self from low serotonin levels, which leads to all sorts of shit: elevated aggression, higher levels of acetlycholine coupled with low serotonin levels is a recipe for amplifying negative emotions and thought patterns (link, link, link), constant stress on the amygdala (due to elevated catecholamines, constant HPA activation), you can basically give your self a mild case of ptsd, etc. You can see it in aas users who have been using for a very long time, they are usually some thick head ass mo-fo's. You probably know what I'm talking about. It's a special kind of personality.

Oh, re NAC, sure, but it doesn't come close to stuff like fluvoxamine, naltrexone, semax, cerebrolysine, etc. But it's great for elevating the immune function which is always lowered on supraphysiological dosages of aas.

 

[Type-IIx]

NAC definitely yet, use on cycle. The issue I see is that anabolics already cause changes in the reward pathway in the brain. Taking drugs that increase BDNF, NGF, etc., while ON cycle could theoretically exacerbate the brain changes as the growth factors could speed up the changes. Just a hypothesis of mine. Then when you go off and your brain chemistry goes back to normal, then you can hopefully heal faster.

There's some reeeeeeally weak data that shows that the dopaminergic and serotonergic systems (rats) are affected by AAS, and slightly better evidence of the influence on the GABA system. AAS deleteriously alter the visuo-spatial centers (this data is decent, and surprising). I'd like @Jin23 to post good data to show a decrease in serotonin from androgens. And when you think about it, you certainly don't want high serotonin with hard training (fatigue). I present data in the book about how rhGH improves a lot of the cognitive harms from AAS.

 

[SwitchBlade]

By this protocol, you'd administer the bolus at 4 pm.

Pre-fasted cardio is fine, it's just unnecessary with rhGH use. The belief in this practice seems to have arisen from the early view of GH as a protein sparing hormone secreted during starvation. I believe you should eat 4-4.5 hr post-bolus (and post-training; cardio at the end of a session would make more sense to me, but you can incorporate your fasted cardio early AM or wherever).

Got it!