A GH and fat loss protocol (rhGH lipolysis) that is science-based

[Oakley6575]

Gotcha. Not sure the hourly, but FFAs level off. Looks like a few days. See study by Cahill:

View attachment 277027

Yes, exactly my point. I stated if a meal wasn't eaten at the four hour mark like his protocol is based on, FFA's would continue to rise. You said no they level off. Yes, thats true, but I was talking about overnight, not fasting for 3+ days strait.

So taking the bolus pre bed would equate to higher FFA overnight making fasted cardio a good option in the morning.

I just don't understand how the OP's coming to the conclusion that taking the bolus in the morning and making sure to eat 4-4.5 hours after is the best option. Just because they did that in the study/chart he posted, doesn't mean it is optimal or the best option for fat loss.

 

[Type-IIx]

Interested in your upcomming book.

The book will be available soon as a quality softcover and will be sold from Ampouletude: Home of Type-IIx - thank you for your interest bro!

 

[Type-IIx]

Yeah, I read the paper you quoted. In the paper, they gave 12 male volunteers a dose of 0.2IU/kg/day for 4 weeks and compared that to the placebo group.

You said "There's no theoretical upper limit for the lipolytic effects of exogenous rhGH by dose."

But the paper you cite for this assumption only tested one dosing parameter, 0.2IU/kg.

To reach your conclusion that "There's no theoretical upper limit for the lipolytic effects of exogenous rhGH by dose," the study should have tested multiple dosing parameters, for example, 0.05IU/kg, 0.1IU/kg, 0.15IU/kg, and 0.2IU/kg.

And if there was an increased lipolytic effect based on the increased dosing parameters, then I can understand your claim that perhaps there's no upper limit for the lipolytic effects of GH by dose.

But the study doesn't do that. It only tested one dosing parameter.

So, again, I'm asking how are you drawing the conclusion that there's no theoretical upper limit for the lipolytic effects of GH?

Are you drawing this conclusion by comparing the lipolytic effects of GH dosages from multiple studies? Because that seems tenuous at best.

Let me guess: the answer is in your soon to be released book?

This board's freely available information, to which I have contributed and continue to extensively, does not aim to comprehensively assess dose/response of rhGH/lipolysis. I've written sections about this in my book that you aren't interested in. So, don't care.

 

[Type-IIx]

The irony of this is that you clearly need the business. You are the one looking for customers here not me.

I'm not a salesman

 

[AlexDavis43]

Yes, exactly my point. I stated if a meal wasn't eaten at the four hour mark like his protocol is based on, FFA's would continue to rise. You said no they level off. Yes, thats true, but I was talking about overnight, not fasting for 3+ days strait.

So taking the bolus pre bed would equate to higher FFA overnight making fasted cardio a good option in the morning.

I just don't understand how the OP's coming to the conclusion that taking the bolus in the morning and making sure to eat 4-4.5 hours after is the best option. Just because they did that in the study/chart he posted, doesn't mean it is optimal or the best option for fat loss.

I just think it's minutiae. If it's easier or more convenient for you, cool. If it doesn't fit your lifestyle, it's not worth bending over backward for a miniscule (if any) benefit.

There was a study on fasted vs. fed cardio and by the end of the study, both groups lost the same amount of fat. Ymmv.

 

[Type-IIx]

Yep that makes two of us. IIx, sorry if I hurt your book sales. But to quote the author….”Don’t Care”.

It is a book that doesn’t exist anyways.

No harm no foul. The book will be available for sale soon and I don't particularly cater to those who expect the book's content to be given to them for free or anything bro.

 

[Type-IIx]

Tenuous but definitely not worthless. This is part of how we start to figure shit out.

Is this a study you linked or what? If so, I don't see it in the OP. Can you elaborate?

My writings are based on books & studies about GH & its recombinant form, as well as the same materials for GH secretagogues. Bolus contains 178 study citations and 6 citations to medical textbooks related to Growth Hormone.

 

[readalot]

The book will be available soon as a quality softcover and will be sold from Ampouletude: Home of Type-IIx

Congratulations. I'm getting me a paid copy (hope that doesn't detract from your sales haha). We don't seem to click on here but so what. I respect your work ethic.

Wishing you brisk sales.

 

[Type-IIx]

Healy 2006

Effects of High-Dose Growth Hormone on Glucose and Glycerol Metabolism at Rest and during Exercise in Endurance-Trained Athletes

Abstract. Context: Recombinant human-GH (r-hGH), in supraphysiological doses, is self-administered by athletes in the belief that it is performance enhanci

academic.oup.com

Hansen 2005

No effect of growth hormone administration on substrate oxidation during exercise in young, lean men

The purpose of this study was to examine the effects of increased fat availability induced by growth hormone (GH) administration on the oxidative metabolism during exercise. Seven well-trained males (age 25 ± 2 years (mean ±); peak oxygen ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

FFA in circulation does lead to increased fuel substate utilitization following this protocol.

Continuing from post 695. As shown, the OP mentions this. Your dose response will come down to your genes so the tradeoff between potential fat loss vs. harm must be weighed as you escalate your GH dose.

Repeating from post 691:


Minimum effective dose. Probably doesn't hurt to be sub 10% BF before you try to use GH for fat loss anyway. Seems like a great tool for fat loss for people who are already ripped.

Frontiers | Growth Hormone as a Potential Mediator of Aerobic Exercise-Induced Reductions in Visceral Adipose Tissue

[see manuscript] After incorporating the reviewers comments the manuscript is slightly over the word limit.

www.frontiersin.org

Lipid oxidation is reduced in obese human skeletal muscle - PubMed

The purpose of this study was to discern cellular mechanisms that contribute to the suppression of lipid oxidation in the skeletal muscle of obese individuals. Muscle was obtained from obese [body mass index (BMI), 38.3 +/- 3.1 kg/m(2)] and lean (BMI, 23.8 +/- 0.9 kg/m(2)) women, and fatty acid...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://journals.physiology.org/na101/home/literatum/publisher/physio/journals/content/ajpendo/2000/ajpendo.2000.279.issue-5/ajpendo.2000.279.5.e1039/production/images/large/h11100162001.jpeg

https://journals.physiology.org/action/downloadFigures?id=F1&doi=10.1152/ajpendo.2000.279.5.E1039

First things first. Don't throw everything at the issue from the get go. Use diet and exercise. If you are good, then great. Add in the TRT/"TRT" to hit next plateau. Good? OK. Not Good and want to be a mutant? Then move on to bust the next plateau. What I don't understand is throwing everything all at once at an issue that should be solved in sequential steps with escalating levels of potential harm.


Also throwing this graph up again cause I think it is so darn cool:

Now Obese Getting back into the gym and moving again?

Did you start losing weight yet? I think this thread can go dormant until the day (if it ever happens) that you start actually doing something.

thinksteroids.com

Fundamental different operating points when it comes to fat loss for obese/diabetic vs "normal" person. Getting your waist circumference to height ratio down before using drugs will greatly increase the probability of good results from the drugs.

That was heavy on opinion.

not my intent as I have been in their shoes wrt obesity. Clearly if they have tried the other steps and it is not working then the MED hasn't been identified yet. I was thinking of convenience or perhaps good but uniformed intentions instead of desperation. Anyway to be clear...more power to anyone who is trying to address obesity.

Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate your perspective.

A potential concern with gh use in obese folks is the water weight. Would be a bummer to have someone get discouraged and commit type II error thinking they aren't losing fat when instead they are holding extra water. Seeing that scale not budge can mess with your head.

Some of the logs on here have been instructive; fortunately there has been some good advice given.

Neither MAXED nor MRTD have been established with respect to rhGH & lipolysis.

I know you read a lot so I'll look forward to your impressions and feedback about the book.

 

[Type-IIx]

Yes, exactly my point. I stated if a meal wasn't eaten at the four hour mark like his protocol is based on, FFA's would continue to rise. You said no they level off. Yes, thats true, but I was talking about overnight, not fasting for 3+ days strait.

So taking the bolus pre bed would equate to higher FFA overnight making fasted cardio a good option in the morning.

I just don't understand how the OP's coming to the conclusion that taking the bolus in the morning and making sure to eat 4-4.5 hours after is the best option. Just because they did that in the study/chart he posted, doesn't mean it is optimal or the best option for fat loss.

That's not what the protocol suggests, even?

 

[Oakley6575]

That's not what the protocol suggests, even?

I guess I don't understand your reasoning for even posting this thread then.

 

[readalot]

MAXED nor MRTD

Please define for clarity.

 

[Streetfighter V4]

IR is unfortunately the most acute deleterious effect of GH that we must work around.

I cannot get into dosages. What I propose is that it's most logical to administer a dosage that is limited by tolerability/sides 2-3 hr preworkout and then the rest of the dosage logically would be nighttime for the overarching goal of lipolysis.

Peak GH is consistently the strongest correlate for lipolytic effects.

There is no harm to administration in the postabsorptive or post-prandial state.

I’ve heard from a polish guy a long ago, he said large dosage of gh pre workout does miracles.. ive tried this and i can say there is a difference, after 2 weeks it felt like i was taking dianabol the whole time.. in training there is a huge difference and not just water retention…

 

[Amgiji]

not my intent as I have been in their shoes wrt obesity. Clearly if they have tried the other steps and it is not working then the MED hasn't been identified yet. I was thinking of convenience or perhaps good but uniformed intentions instead of desperation. Anyway to be clear...more power to anyone who is trying to address obesity.

Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate your perspective.

A potential concern with gh use in obese folks is the water weight. Would be a bummer to have someone get discouraged and commit type II error thinking they aren't losing fat when instead they are holding extra water. Seeing that scale not budge can mess with your head.

Some of the logs on here have been instructive; fortunately there has been some good advice given.

ah, I read the "What I don't understand" as very condescending, my apologies for misunderstanding.

 

[lift4lyfe]

Minimum effective dose. Probably doesn't hurt to be sub 10% BF before you try to use GH for fat loss anyway. Seems like a great tool for fat loss for people who are already ripped.

IMO this is perhaps the only conclusion we can come close to drawing that's "science-based" as opposed to the "take as much GH as you can because there's no ceiling on lipolysis" rhetoric being espoused by type II as "science", and that's not even broaching the question of whether sky high lipolysis is even necessary and/or beneficial to lowering body fat % in the majority of individuals.

I had no beef with type II and his illusory "soon" to be released "science-based" book until he rudely belittled someone for asking a legitimate question.

My only question... when is readalot releasing a book?

You know what? Maybe we should get together and draft a book on the topic of GH. I even found a table of contents we can use (see page 1 of this thread).

With the help of chatGPT I bet we could finish it by Monday morning.

 

[lift4lyfe]

I'm not a salesman

The irony of going on a 26+ month book tour for an e-book that's never been published while funneling people to a website that sells $350/month "coaching" claiming to not be a "salesman"

 

[29trt]

I’ve heard from a polish guy a long ago, he said large dosage of gh pre workout does miracles.. ive tried this and i can say there is a difference, after 2 weeks it felt like i was taking dianabol the whole time.. in training there is a huge difference and not just water retention…

How many hours preworkout?
I take it you tried the same dosage pre bed as well to compare?
And how many UI are we talking about?

 

[readalot]

ah, I read the "What I don't understand" as very condescending, my apologies for misunderstanding.

My bad as well. Sometimes this medium can get people sideways unintentionally. I'll try to be more clear in the future.

 

[readalot]

that's not even broaching the question of whether sky high lipolysis is even necessary and/or beneficial to lowering body fat % in the majority of individuals.

Now I am really curious. Got to get reading. Thanks for this thread. Haven't touched GH; on to planning the next adventure.

Low carbohydrate high fat ketogenic diets on the exercise crossover point and glucose homeostasis

In exercise science, the crossover effect denotes that fat oxidation is the primary fuel at rest and during low-intensity exercise with a shift towards an increased reliance on carbohydrate oxidation at moderate to high exercise intensities. This model ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[JG1234]

IMO this is perhaps the only conclusion we can come close to drawing that's "science-based" as opposed to the "take as much GH as you can because there's no ceiling on lipolysis" rhetoric being espoused by type II as "science", and that's not even broaching the question of whether sky high lipolysis is even necessary and/or beneficial to lowering body fat % in the majority of individuals.

I had no beef with type II and his illusory "soon" to be released "science-based" book until he rudely belittled someone for asking a legitimate question.

My only question... when is readalot releasing a book?

You know what? Maybe we should get together and draft a book on the topic of GH. I even found a table of contents we can use (see page 1 of this thread).

With the help of chatGPT I bet we could finish it by Monday morning.

I agree with this. I also agree on the “Readalot” book. I would love to buy this. As a newb to Meso I didn’t even realize people were posting or even permitted to try to monitize like IIx.

The humility of Readalot is amazing. It’s like the polar opposite of whomever this IIx person is. Readalot seems one of the most impressive and knowledgeable on GH have seen so far on this forum. So thank you Readalot for your contributions.

You know what in support of this I’m willing to pay up front for this if you all need supporters for this. Feel free to DM if you and Readalot move forward on this.