AAS and Cardiovascular/Pulmonary Function

[Galacticbass]

Interesting reads. Prescribed TRT and this thread has answered a lot of questions. Thank you.

 

[Scruf]

While many PED users have other risk factors for ASCVD, unfortunately because of their putative effects on thrombogenesis, high dose AAS may be all that's required for vascular occlusion.

To that end prophylactic ASA may be a reasonable means of lowering thrombogenic risk.

Does this apply to Hormone Replacement Therapy? IE bringing testosterone back up to normal levels. Recently started taking HRT, as prescribed by a doctor, and tested regularly.

 

[malfeasance]

Does this apply to Hormone Replacement Therapy? IE bringing testosterone back up to normal levels. Recently started taking HRT, as prescribed by a doctor, and tested regularly.

From the study he attached . . .

Quote:

Male hormones and protein-assimilating hormone therapy in 27 hypoplastic anemia patients resulted in three cases of sagittal sinus thrombosis [82]. A case of acute myocardial infarction was reported in a non-athlete who inadvertently received therapeutic intravenous testosterone for hypogonadism [83,84], as well as a case of stroke secondary to testosterone therapy in a 21-year-old hypogonadal man [84]. A meta-analysis of 27 placebocontrolled studies detected an increased risk of cardiovascular events in men who received testosterone therapy, compared to placebo [85]. A population-based case-control trial has recently reported an increased risk of venous thromboembolism after testosterone therapy, peaking within six months after the treatment cessation [86]. On the other hand, there are data indicating that low serum testosterone concentrations are also associated with increased cardiovascular risk and mortality, and that testosterone replacement therapy may have beneficial effects [87,88]. Several recent systematic reviews and meta-analyses did not find clear evidence of increased risk for cardiovascular events in men with testosterone prescription [89,90]. Moreover, low plasma androgen levels in hypogonadal patients have been linked to deficient platelet function, explaining the presence of hemorrhagic diathesis observed in this population [91,92].

 

[Scruf]

From the study he attached . . .

Quote:

Male hormones and protein-assimilating hormone therapy in 27 hypoplastic anemia patients resulted in three cases of sagittal sinus thrombosis [82]. A case of acute myocardial infarction was reported in a non-athlete who inadvertently received therapeutic intravenous testosterone for hypogonadism [83,84], as well as a case of stroke secondary to testosterone therapy in a 21-year-old hypogonadal man [84]. A meta-analysis of 27 placebocontrolled studies detected an increased risk of cardiovascular events in men who received testosterone therapy, compared to placebo [85]. A population-based case-control trial has recently reported an increased risk of venous thromboembolism after testosterone therapy, peaking within six months after the treatment cessation [86]. On the other hand, there are data indicating that low serum testosterone concentrations are also associated with increased cardiovascular risk and mortality, and that testosterone replacement therapy may have beneficial effects [87,88]. Several recent systematic reviews and meta-analyses did not find clear evidence of increased risk for cardiovascular events in men with testosterone prescription [89,90]. Moreover, low plasma androgen levels in hypogonadal patients have been linked to deficient platelet function, explaining the presence of hemorrhagic diathesis observed in this population [91,92].

Thank you for posting.

 

[Dr JIM]

Does this apply to Hormone Replacement Therapy? IE bringing testosterone back up to normal levels. Recently started taking HRT, as prescribed by a doctor, and tested regularly.

 

[Dr JIM]

Although not zero, whether male or female, the risk of legitimate HRT related thrombogenesis is relatively low.

 

[Scruf]

Although not zero, whether male or female, the risk of legitimate HRT related thrombogenesis is relatively low.

Thank you very much. Cheers to you sir.

 

[Dr JIM]

Thank you very much. Cheers to you sir.

Males are considered low risk for HRT related thrombogenic complications IF they have no history of arterio-venous occlusion and no more than ONE of the following (smoking, age >65, cholesterol, HTN, DM, Morbid obesity)

Finally a modifiable risk factor if present such as DM, HTN must be well controlled to remain low risk.

 

[malfeasance]

That's diabetes and hypertensive heart disease (just translating for us)


Note the age over 65, meaning that is the one condition all by itself.

 

[JUNGLE JOE]

Hi guys.
I started to read page after page and by page 6 I realized I wouldn't be able to finish it all this evening and really wanted to make the following points... please forgive me if someone else already did.... if not, I'm glad I went to the last page and posted....

Anyway the following thoughts...

1. Rats are not humans !
2. Any issue with just testosterone and the heart begs the following question :
Since test is commonly used as a base, can anyone here claim they have only used test and never experimented with anything else ? ( I'm sure very few ) Sure u can take a guy today, give him 300 mgs of test this week or month and make conclusions. But what about what was taken before the experiment began ?
3. Are we assuming that these subjects never took pro hormones and weren't taking them or anything else during the experiment?
4. As we know, all steroids are the same, regardless of the manufacturer who makes them , right ?!!! So brand name viagra is just as good as generic from India, right ?!?!? Wink wink. So we are assuming that bad side effects from a run of the mill manufacturer is predictive of side effects from a quality one ?
5. Since pharmacom is 500 mgs per ML, are we assuming that pumping 2.5 ML into ur bloodstream from a lesser brand is not an issue in comparison to 1 ML of oil per week ?
6. Are we forgetting that years ago exercise itself was bad because it was claimed caused an enlarged heart ?!?!
7. I know just how friggin wonderful weed is supposed to be now but was Mike tyson part of these experiments whom was smoking every day along with this deadly test ? Possibly downing lee labrada lean body with aspartame !!!!

In my experience, while dianabol turinabol and halotestin ( if it was good halo to begin with. Idk )was negative on my aerobic endurance, test had no such negative for me and made me feel great from head to toe.

I'm not even going to get into bio engineered foods and pesticides in foods... but how much quaker oats were these people having along with Monsanto bioengineering??

Let's leave out the doctors and their tests for a moment since ours is as good as theirs. What has testosterone done to ur cardio performance ? Those that are taking 300 mgs a week and above so more than just hormone replacement. I really would love to know if I'm like the only one who has positive effects off test with great cardio or if u guys in ur experience find negative. And anyone who gives a thumbs down, what else are u taking and doing and have u taken any tren which could have a long term negative as far as I know though I could be wrong.

 

[KernelPanicFrenzy]

Would TRT be a no no for me? My Total t 202 free 36.1

Meeting with a surgeon on 9/4

I need

Subaortic Stenosis (SubAS) Resection
Left Ventricular Outflow Tract (LVOT) Enlargement
Aortic Valve Replacement (mechanical)
Aortic Root Replacement
Right Ventricular to Pulmonary Artery (RV-PA) Conduit Replacement.

History
Subclavian Flap Repair for coarctation of the aorta as an infant.
Aortic Valvotomy and Subaortic Stenosis Resection (1987).
Repeat Subaortic Stenosis Resection and Aortic Valve Repair (1991).
Ross Procedure with 23 mm Pulmonary Homograft (1998).
Pulmonary Valve Replacement (PVR) with a 25 mm bioprosthetic valve and Ascending Aorta Graft Repair with a 26 mm Ultramax Double Velour graft (2009).

Thank you.

 

[hurricane]

Would TRT be a no no for me? My Total t 202 free 36.1

Meeting with a surgeon on 9/4

I need

Subaortic Stenosis (SubAS) Resection
Left Ventricular Outflow Tract (LVOT) Enlargement
Aortic Valve Replacement (mechanical)
Aortic Root Replacement
Right Ventricular to Pulmonary Artery (RV-PA) Conduit Replacement.

History
Subclavian Flap Repair for coarctation of the aorta as an infant.
Aortic Valvotomy and Subaortic Stenosis Resection (1987).
Repeat Subaortic Stenosis Resection and Aortic Valve Repair (1991).
Ross Procedure with 23 mm Pulmonary Homograft (1998).
Pulmonary Valve Replacement (PVR) with a 25 mm bioprosthetic valve and Ascending Aorta Graft Repair with a 26 mm Ultramax Double Velour graft (2009).

Thank you.

I would speak with your cardiac specialist and see what they say.
I have a lengthy cardiac history myself(much different then yours) and I didn't go on trt until my cardiologist and electrophysiologist both signed off on it.
Ask your docs and proceed from there. Best of luck with your heart.

 

[KernelPanicFrenzy]

I would speak with your cardiac specialist and see what they say.
I have a lengthy cardiac history myself(much different then yours) and I didn't go on trt until my cardiologist and electrophysiologt both signed off on it.
Ask your docs and proceed from there. Best of luck with your heart.

I do plan to discuss it with my surgeon. My cardiologist was just dismissive when i brought it up initially and told me with a surgery on the horizon its probably not a good idea. I think hes biased against it. Depending on what the Endo and surgeon say, I will likely ask the cardiologist team officially where that one can't just dismiss it offhand because his wife is an endo who hates people using it for performance.

 

[malfeasance]

I do plan to discuss it with my surgeon. My cardiologist was just dismissive when i brought it up initially and told me with a surgery on the horizon its probably not a good idea. I think hes biased against it. Depending on what the Endo and surgeon say, I will likely ask the cardiologist team officially where that one can't just dismiss it offhand because his wife is an endo who hates people using it for performance.

It could just be that your cardiologist does not want complicating factors. He knows what he is doing and how to have good outcomes, and he does not want another variable introduced this late in the game.

 

[KernelPanicFrenzy]

It could just be that your cardiologist does not want complicating factors. He knows what he is doing and how to have good outcomes, and he does not want another variable introduced this late in the game.

Could be, but I felt like his attitude was roiling his eyes lol and how he phrased it. Im totally cool waiting till after the surgery as well if thats the only issue.

 

[Flipmike22]

From the study he attached . . .

Quote:

Male hormones and protein-assimilating hormone therapy in 27 hypoplastic anemia patients resulted in three cases of sagittal sinus thrombosis [82]. A case of acute myocardial infarction was reported in a non-athlete who inadvertently received therapeutic intravenous testosterone for hypogonadism [83,84], as well as a case of stroke secondary to testosterone therapy in a 21-year-old hypogonadal man [84]. A meta-analysis of 27 placebocontrolled studies detected an increased risk of cardiovascular events in men who received testosterone therapy, compared to placebo [85]. A population-based case-control trial has recently reported an increased risk of venous thromboembolism after testosterone therapy, peaking within six months after the treatment cessation [86]. On the other hand, there are data indicating that low serum testosterone concentrations are also associated with increased cardiovascular risk and mortality, and that testosterone replacement therapy may have beneficial effects [87,88]. Several recent systematic reviews and meta-analyses did not find clear evidence of increased risk for cardiovascular events in men with testosterone prescription [89,90]. Moreover, low plasma androgen levels in hypogonadal patients have been linked to deficient platelet function, explaining the presence of hemorrhagic diathesis observed in this population [91,92].

I’m great information here. Thanks

 

[malfeasance]

Would TRT be a no no for me? My Total t 202 free 36.1

Meeting with a surgeon on 9/4

I need

Subaortic Stenosis (SubAS) Resection
Left Ventricular Outflow Tract (LVOT) Enlargement
Aortic Valve Replacement (mechanical)
Aortic Root Replacement
Right Ventricular to Pulmonary Artery (RV-PA) Conduit Replacement.

History
Subclavian Flap Repair for coarctation of the aorta as an infant.
Aortic Valvotomy and Subaortic Stenosis Resection (1987).
Repeat Subaortic Stenosis Resection and Aortic Valve Repair (1991).
Ross Procedure with 23 mm Pulmonary Homograft (1998).
Pulmonary Valve Replacement (PVR) with a 25 mm bioprosthetic valve and Ascending Aorta Graft Repair with a 26 mm Ultramax Double Velour graft (2009).

Thank you.

I know you had an appointment with your surgeon a month ago (quoted post). How did it go?

Did you get the surgery?

Everything ok?

 

[malfeasance]

Why did Michael Scally MD and Dr JIM stop participating here?

 

[KernelPanicFrenzy]

I know you had an appointment with your surgeon a month ago (quoted post). How did it go?

Did you get the surgery?

Everything ok?

Oh fuck man. I met with the surgeon, explained id lost 35 lbs and had no symptoms, felt great, he conferred with my cardiologist team and I am now being monitored every 3-6 months. Surgeon is totally cool with me taking TRT.

Met with cardiologist on Oct 1st. same thing, I had asked when I was at my highest weight with symptoms if it could worse stenosis and was told no. But, either the weight loss, or tirzepatide or both he thinks it might be reversed. He wouldnt order an echo for some reason, but says if they did one, he expects my stenosis has regressed, and if I get to my goal weight, I might be able to avoid the operating table all together.

He wants to write a study about me. IDK how hes gonna like it if I tell him on doing GHK-CU, BPC-157, TB-500, SS-31, Cagri and Tesamorelin as well. I might keep that to myself.

When I mentioned TRT to cardiologist in May I think, he was very dismissive, could tell he hated it, his wifes an endo, blah blah blah. Anyways, Im seeing an endo and she told me to ask about compounded testosterone cream. He I can tell still doesnt like it, he even stated "I shouldnt be talking about stuff outside my specialty", now he made a point to tell me hes going to call her before my appointment with her on the 7th, I think hes gonna try and jam me up from getting treatment. Not because its actually bad for my condition, but because he has a dislike for TRT and GH in general.

Over 50 lbs down now

 

[Millard]

He wants to write a study about me. IDK how hes gonna like it if I tell him on doing GHK-CU, BPC-157, TB-500, SS-31, Cagri and Tesamorelin as well. I might keep that to myself.

When I mentioned TRT to cardiologist in May I think, he was very dismissive

You are interfering with his personal ambitions.

If you introduce AAS, peptides, etc. it will likely compromise the prospects of a published case study.

Don't let that deter you from being honest with him - for the sake of scientific accuracy and disclosure. You are doing a disservice to the scientific community if you fail to disclose knowing that he will publish false information.