Adrenal Thread

[pmgamer18]

If one's adrenals do not put out what is needed to maintain health and wellbeing to begin with, shutdown is a moot point. Phil is lucky that his low adrenals manifest themselves as sub-optimum immune response. My low adrenals announce via orthostatic hypotension, heat intolerance and constant nausea. Marianco has mentioned that testosterone modulates cortisol output. Having said that, I hope no one gets the idea of cutting T just to raise cortisol. If all of these things are issues, methinks one is hypopituitary.

Amen to that one does not want to low TRT to bring up Cortisol but if one has levels over the top of range this can be a problem.

I just can't believe it took this long to figure out what my problem was I guess I owe Dr. John for this if it were not for his HCG treatment I would have never found this out. Been told for 22 yrs I am primary now I am hypopituitary so knowing this I should get better with the right treatment.

 

[Andromeda]

In the absence of success in treating my hormonal health through Dr's I am now looking to call on this pool of collective knowledge I see in this thread. There is still hope!?

OVERALL PROBLEM:
I'm 25 - supposedly at an age where my sexual function should be at its peak, and yet I've very little sex drive, and find myself struggling to drum up the energy to pursue real sport and career interests - VERY frustrating for someone who at age 12 was up there with the strongest and most determined people in class.

PHYSICAL PROBLEMS:
Minimal physical arousal around attractive females even with full stimulation/contact.
Inability to sustain a proper erection in all but the rarest occasions
No or poor morning 'wood'
Easily stressed at work or in social situations involving argument/conflict (noticeably resolved when I first started taking Hydrocortisone)
Gynecomastia (Along with elevated estrogen AND progesterone levels (both slightly above reference range)
Acne and slow wound healing or slow recovery from gym sessions

BACKGROUND:
At almost 24 years old I met a 'progressive' Dr in March 2005 who suggested Wilson's book, and arranged me a 4 point salivary cortisol/testosterone/DHEA/Progesterone test along with a Synacthen Stim test and Thyroid tests. (After hearing my problems listed above)

Did these tests with the following results:

• Salivary Cortisol was in the very low end of the range for the wakeup, late morning, lunch and afternoon tests, but on their way back up to low/normal levels by late evening.

• Progesterone levels were slightly above the reference range (exactly as per numerous previous blood tests)

• Estrogens were at the very high end of the reference range

• DHEA's were medium/high

• Testosterone was low/mid range

The Synacthen test came back with a very strong response, and I recall that day feeling on top of the world and with loads of energy for at least half the day.

Based on the consistently low salivary cortisol, and the bad rhythm (going higher in late evening) the Dr arranged me to go on a combined T3/Hydrocortisone pill of 20mg cort and 30mcg T3 which I took daily in the morning starting late March 2005. The effects were immediate - Within a day I found myself far more tolerant of arguments (they didnt leave me feeling weakened as usual) and physically stronger. Sex drive however, remained relatively unchanged to pre treatment levels.

After about 6 weeks I noticed physical changes. My neck started getting thicker and I generally was a more outgoing and stronger person. The increased energy was a relief, but sex drive was still relatively unchanged, which really frustrated me, however the Dr said that the process of recovering the adrenals was a slow one that would likely take many months, so keep going. I did.

In early July I restarted Gym which I had been doing consistently/seriously for all of 2004, but then stopped at start of 2005. I quickly improved my weights and within 2 months I had returned to the weights I was once lifting at my peak end of 2004. Workouts were much less debilitating now that I had the Cort/T3 supplement. Again though, sex drive improved slightly, but was really still inadequate. HOWEVER, in late August something changed. I found I was getting quite sexually excited about some new females that were in our office. I would come home, have a shower and noticed I was producing pre cum just at the thought of them, and my erections were stronger, with the penis feeling ironically more 'numb' in a good way. Over the coming nights I would find myself waking up at 2am (usually about 4 hours after going to bed) with a proper erection and it actually felt like I was getting relief when I masturbated, and for once the climax really felt good! instead of a tense sort of feeling. I also noticed that if I took magnesium tablets and ate a banana before going to bed it increased the likelihood of these 'nocturnal erections'
It was also about this time that I started to have real acne problems and a lot less able to handle alcohol. The Dr suggested it was because my liver was struggling to dispose of the cortisol/T3, so he pointed me to a supplement - Calcium D-glucarate which helps dump these end products from the liver. This improved the acne and made me more tolerant to alcohol. I have taken them religiously to this day.

Over the following couple months I became more sexually interested, but couldnt return to the situation I found myself in there in late August with the 'wakeup calls' Proper erections were still a rarity. About September, 6 months after starting my T3/Cort treatment the Dr gave me a reduced dose T3/Cort in the belief I was well on the road to recovery (10mg Cort and 40mcg T3). This was fine - I did notice a bit of a drop in energy, but it was negligible

Followup salivary tests were arranged similar to those I had the first time. Ironically my morning cortisol was even lower than pre treatment, however the pattern was 'normal' with the lowest cort being the evening reading. Testosterone was MUCH higher, and actually in the high end of the range. Progesterone was as usual just above the reference range (HIGH) and Estrogens were also higher than pre treatment (now definitely above ref. range) Thyroid tests indicated higher than ref range levels of T3, but normal T4 levels. Note that I ensured I took not treatment on the day I did these tests so levels would indicate pure endogenous production.

By the start of 2006 I still had not reached any kind of acceptable sexual function (despite that brief joyous period in late August 2005) but at least I had near acceptable energy levels to pursue my gym and career goals. In my frustration I was referred to an endocrinologist for the first time that sent me for a barrage of blood tests and advised that the salivary tests were inaccurate and not to be used as a guide for any treatment. As usual the Cortisol levels were at the high end of the range, T levels were low/medium, Thyroid was sky high, Progesterone was high, and Estrogen too.
So I tapered off my T3/Cort supplement completely on his advice. In my frustration over the previous months with the Gynnecomastia I researched medical journals on progesterone. I thought that its quite possible my adrenal function is fine, (as supported by the synacthen test, and numerous blood tests) and that the real problem must be something to do with my elevated progesterone and to a lesser extent, estrogen. Sure enough I found out that high progesterone in the presence of estrogen stimulated breast tissue growth, and there was some animal studies that demonstrated less mounting behavior when progesterone was high (might explain the poor libido) As a result I tried bromocriptine for a couple weeks to try and suppress progesterone production and promote dopamine. After 2 weeks I noticed no real change, and so stopped taking it. Having said that, it was a low dosage, and the pills were about 2 years past expiry date (I got them informally)

So at the start of Feb, 2006 I had almost completely tapered off the T3/Cort, only taking it on gym days so I could do my workout without feeling destroyed. I took a herb called 'Rhodiola' that seemed to help a little bit, but of course nothing like the T3/Cort. To be frank, I felt like rat sh1t for the following 2 months. Every day felt like a struggle. My neck started to lose its once thick/strong look. The upside was the acne reduced after the first few weeks, but then it actually came back worse than during treatment levels! and I noticed I was producing massive amounts of sebaceous fluid, often finding I had a thick greasy sheen to my forid by late afternoon at work.

Finally, in early April I returned back to the original 'progressive Dr' who I had lost hope in. However I knew that at least getting back on the hydrocortisone would make me feel human again. And so I did - but he agreed that I had plenty of thyroid, and so I would just take pure hydrocortisone - 20mg a day divided in 2 taken morning and lunchtime. The relief was enormous. I had energy again. I was outgoing again at work, I could work harder at the gym and noticed I actually gained more muscle (ironic given I'm taking a catabolic agent) Sex drive was definitely improved, but only for a few weeks after restarting treatment. Then it was back to the usual crappiness. Again, it never reached the 'acceptable' levels I experienced in August 2005.

The gynecomastia, developed slightly after resuming the cortisol, however I countered this by following a lower fat diet, and have managed to keep it from developing further, though its a big struggle and even having a night of heavy drinking leads to them being bigger almost over night.
The latest development for me has been taking my first course of SSRI's that were prescribed to me by a GP who I saw just to get a mole scan. I explained to him how frustrating it has been that after 1 year of treatment I still dont have adequate sexual function, and poor energy, and how I'd rather have bitch tits and some energy than no bitch tits and feeling like crap all the time. He was of the belief that I had depression, and that the cortisol was just alleviating some of the end symptoms but not addressing the underlying problem, and that it was in fact causing secondary problems in the form of the gynecomastia.

I could see his reasoning, and in spite of my self belief that I didnt have depression, I gave the SSRI's (Cipramil) a try. Within a couple days I noticed I was far more outgoing at work, and getting wood around attractive females. It seems he was right! My hopes were further boosted by the knowledge that apparently it takes 2 weeks for them to really become effective. I thought that this could be the answer.
I've since found its not the answer though and now, 6 weeks since starting the Cipramil I'm only slightly better sexually and energy wise than pre treatment levels.

So - whats wrong. Why do I have elevated progesterone levels. Why is my sex drive still inadequate. Is the progesterone level the primary problem causing my lack of libido and lack of erection power?
I'm 25. I need to find a solution soon. I want to have a sex life and I want to have the energy to pursue my ambitions. Things that most people take for granted.

Keen to hear your thoughts...

 

[HeadDoc]

I guess there are multiple hormone problems as you got some partial relief from working on the adrenals alone. I was wondering if you and doc had considered some focus and work on estrogen/estrodial reduction. This could be with DIM/I3C or arimidex in addition to the adrenal supplements.

 

[pmgamer18]

Wow after being sick with Low T for over 22 yrs. I am not finding I am not Primary Low T but have a Hypopituitary Gland. I am just in the process of getting a 24 hr. Saliva Test. My blood Cortisol at 8:30am were 8 and at noon was 9. Just finishing the book Adrenal Fatigue what a eye opener. I have been look all over the place for help and found two sites you need to check out this one Chris will help you a lot but you need to post tests results with units and ranges. I can't say what you need to do with out tests results was your Estradiol checked if high it will give you ED, trouble reaching an orgasm and more.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hypopituitary_Support/messages
Chris is also at this site read Adrenal's info.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

 

[1cc]

Andromeda,

You need to check your DHT level. DHT will lower Estrogen and may also counter progesterone. It may also help the gyno.

 

[Andromeda]

Andromeda,

You need to check your DHT level. DHT will lower Estrogen and may also counter progesterone. It may also help the gyno.

Good, looks like I've got another avenue to investigate. Funnily enough the endocrinologist that sent me for the barrage of tests specifically mentioned DHT and agonised over it for a few seconds before omitting it from the tests. It would appear I am particularly short on DHT - I very rarely have to shave (once every 2-3 days)
Hopefully I can arrange it to be done through my GP instead of going back to that expensive Endo..

Thanks for the suggestion

 

[Andromeda]

I guess there are multiple hormone problems as you got some partial relief from working on the adrenals alone. I was wondering if you and doc had considered some focus and work on estrogen/estrodial reduction. This could be with DIM/I3C or arimidex in addition to the adrenal supplements.

I think I'll also raise this when I consider getting the DHT looked at - however I am concerned at using any kind of artificial blocking agent. I don't want to become dependent. I should be able to get my body sorted by addressing the underlying problem leading to the estrogen excess...
Thanks for raising this avenue

 

[Vforcer2]

Sorry to hear you have been through such a roller coaster ride. Many of us have to some extent in attempting to regain optimum health.

What is your weight and physical condition?

Have you done any AAS, Proscar, Propecia, or any other drugs(recreational or prescription) during your childhood or adulthood?

Do you know what your fasting glucose level is?

 

[Andromeda]

Sorry to hear you have been through such a roller coaster ride. Many of us have to some extent in attempting to regain optimum health.

What is your weight and physical condition?

Have you done any AAS, Proscar, Propecia, or any other drugs(recreational or prescription) during your childhood or adulthood?

Do you know what your fasting glucose level is?

I'm 5 foot 8 or 172cm tall.
Lean and fairly well muscled as a result of 2+ years of hard work at the gym and strict nutrition. - Last bioelectrical test showed 107% lean body mass for size/weight, but that would probably be more like 110% by now. In fact this is what makes the man boobs even more spectacular - I look too lean and muscled to have anything approaching man boobs.

During my childhood a paediatrician gave me 6 months of testosterone to 'kick start' puberty after doing a bone density test that showed i was already 1.5 years behind in development (at 14 yo)

Fasting glucose is high'ish, but within range (5.5 where ref range is up to 6.0)

Hope this has given you some ideas.... I'm keen to hear them and frankly a bit concerned at the lack of suggestions thus far.

Cheers
Ashley

 

[1cc]

This is the exact questionaire that is found in the book "Adrenal Fatigue: The 21st Century stress Syndrome" by Dr. James Wilson. This can be used for diagnosing Adrenal Fatigue.

From this link:
http://www.northpointepharmacy.com/docs/adrenalfatiguesurvey.pdf

 

[1cc]

I found another MS word doc, but I couldn't upload it because it is not supported, so I am pasting it in here. This one also has the section on how to interpret the results.

ADRENAL STRESS QUESTIONNAIRE



0 = never/rarely 1 = occasionally/slightly
2 = moderate in intensity or frequency
3 = intense/severe or frequent


Predisposing Factors

I have experienced long periods of stress that have affected my well being______________

I have had one or more severely stressful events that have affected
my well being _______________

I have driven myself to exhaustion _______________

I overwork with little play or relaxation for extended periods _______________

I have had extended, severe or recurring respiratory infections _______________

I have taken long-term or intense steroid therapy _______________

I tend to gain weight especially around the middle _______________

I have a history of alcoholism/drug use _______________

I have environmental sensitivities _______________

I have diabetes type II _______________

I suffer from post traumatic stress syndrome _______________

I suffer from anorexia* _______________

TOTAL:







Key Signs and Symptoms:

My ability to handle stress and pressure has decreased _______________

I am less productive in my work _______________

I seem to have decreased in cognitive ability _______________

My thinking is confused when hurried or under pressure _______________

I tend to avoid emotional situations _______________

I tend to shake or am nervous when under pressure _______________

I suffer from nervous stomach indigestion when under stress _______________
I have many unexplained fears/anxieties _______________

My sex drive is noticeably less than it used to be _______________

I get light-headed or dizzy when rising suddenly
from a sitting down or lying position _______________

I have feelings of greying out or blacking out _______________

I am chronically fatigued: a tiredness that it not
usually relieved by sleep * _______________

I feel unwell much of the time _______________

I notice that my ankles are sometimes swollen, often
worse in the evenings _______________

I have one or more other chronic illnesses or diseases _______________

I usually need to lie down or rest after periods of psychological/
emotional pressure/stress _______________

My muscles sometimes feel weaker than they should _______________

My hands and legs get restless - experience meaningless
body movements _______________

I have become allergic/have increased frequency/severity
of allergic reactions _______________

When I scratch my skin, a white line remains for a minute or more _______________

Small, irregular dark brown spots have appeared on my face,
forehead, neck and shoulders _______________

I sometimes feel weak all over * _______________

I have unexplained and frequent headaches _______________

I am frequently cold _______________

I have decreased tolerance for cold * _______________

I have low blood pressure* _______________
_
I often become hungry, confused, shaky
or somewhat paralysed under stress _______________

I have lost weight without reason while
feeling very tired and listless _______________

I have feelings of hopelessness and despair _______________

I have decreased tolerance. People irritate me more _______________

The lymph nodes in my neck are frequently swollen _______________

I have times of nausea and vomiting for no apparent reason * _______________

TOTAL:
Energy Patterns:

I often have to force myself in order to keep going,
everything seems like a chore _____________

I am easily fatigued _____________

I have difficulty getting up in the morning (don't
really wake up until about 10 am) _____________

I suddenly run out of energy _____________

I usually feel much better and fully awake after the noon meal _____________

I often have an afternoon low between 3 and 5 pm _____________

I get low energy, moody or foggy if I do not eat regularly _____________

I usually feel my best after 6 pm _____________

I am often tired at 9 - 10 pm but resist going to bed _____________

I like to sleep late in the morning _____________

My best, most refreshing sleep often comes between
7 am and 9 am _____________

I often do my best work late at night (early in the morning) _____________

If I dont go to bed by 11 pm I get a second burst of energy
around 11 pm, often lasting until 1 or 2 am _____________


TOTAL:



Frequently Observed Events:

I get coughs/colds that stay around for several weeks _____________

I have frequent or recurring bronchitis, pneumonia
or other respiratory infections _____________

I get asthma, colds and other respiratory
involvements two or more times a year _____________

I frequently get rashes, dermatitis or other skin conditions _____________

I have rheumatoid arthritis _____________

I have allergies to several things in the environment ______________

I have multiple chemical sensitivities ______________

I have chronic fatigue syndrome ______________

I get pain in the upper part of my lower back
and lower neck for no apparent reason ______________

I get pain in the muscles in the side of my neck ______________

I have insomnia or difficulty sleeping ______________

I have fibromyalgia ______________

I suffer from asthma ______________

I suffer from hay fever ______________

I suffer from nervous breakdowns ______________

My allergies are becoming worse (more severe,
more frequent or diverse) ______________

The fat pads on the palms of my hands and/or
tips of my fingers are often red ______________

I bruise more easily than I used to ______________

I have a tenderness in my back near my spine at
the bottom of my rib cage when pressed ______________

I have swelling under my eyes upon rising that
goes away after I have been up for a couple of hours ______________

I have increasing symptoms of PMS such as
cramps, bloating, moodiness, irritability, emotional
instability, headaches, tiredness, and/or
intolerance before a period (only some of these
need be present) ______________

My periods are generally heavy but they often stop,
or almost stop, on the fourth day, only to start up
profusely on the 5th or 6th day ______________





Food Patterns:

I need coffee or some other stimulant to get going
in the morning _____________

I often crave food high in fat and feel better with
high fat foods _____________

I use high fat foods to drive myself _____________

I often use high fat foods and caffeine-containing drinks
(coffee, colas, chocolate) to drive myself _____________

I often crave salt and/foods containing salt
I love salty foods _____________

I feel worse if I eat high potassium foods (like
bananas, figs) especially if I eat them in the morning _____________

I crave high protein foods (meats, cheeses) ______________

I crave sweet foods (pies, cakes, pastries, doughnuts, dried
fruits, candies or desserts) _____________

I feel worse if I miss or skip a meal _____________


TOTAL:




Aggravating Factors:

I have constant stress in my life or work ______________

My dietary habits tend to be sporadic and unplanned ______________

My relationships at work/home are unhappy ______________

I do not exercise regularly ______________

I eat lots of fruit ______________

My life contains insufficient enjoyable activities ______________

I have little control over how I spend my time ______________

I restrict my salt intake ______________

I have gum and/or tooth infections or abscesses ______________

I have meals at irregular times ______________

TOTAL:




Relieving factors:

I feel better almost right away once a stressful
situation is resolved ______________

Regular meals decrease the severity
of my symptoms ______________

I often feel better after spending a night out with friends ______________

I often feel better if I lie down ______________

Other relieving factors ______________

TOTAL:





CALCULATING THE SCORE



Note that there are no entries for the first section - Predisposing Factors. This section is dealt with separately and is not included in the summary below. Therefore, your first entry into the summary boxes will be for the Key Signs and Symptoms section.

1. Count the number of questions in each section that you answered with any number other than zero. Enter the total in the appropriate box for each section of the Total Number of Questions answered scoring chart below.

2. After you have finished entering the number of questions answered in each section, sum all the numbers for each column and the total in the Grand Total - Total Responses boxes on the bottom row of the scoring chart.

3. All the boxes in the Total Number of Questions answered chart should now be filled.

Then go to the next part of the scoring.




Total Number of Questions Answered


Name of Section Total Responses

Key signs & symptoms
Number of questions - 31

Energy patterns
number of questions - 13

Frequently observed events
Number of questions -
20 for men 22 for women

Food patterns
Number of questions - 9

Aggravating factors
Number of questions - 10

Relieving Factors
Number of questions - 4

Grand Total - Total Responses










TOTAL POINTS:
This part of the scoring adds up the actual numbers (0, 1, 2, or 3) you put beside the questions when you were answering the questionnaire. Add these numbers for each section and enter them into the boxes below. Then, sum each column to get the Total-Point-Now score. Enter this total in the bottom box to complete this part of the scoring.


TOTAL POINTS Number:

Key signs and symptoms
total points possible 93 _____

Energy patterns
total points possible 39 _____

Frequently observed
Events _____
total points possible
60 for men
66 for women

Food Patterns _____
Total points possible - 27

Aggravating Factors _____
total points possible - 30

Relieving Factors _____
total points possible - 12

Grand Total - Total Points _____


TOTAL RESPONSES = Severity



Interpreting the questionnaire
The questionnaire is a valuable tool for determining if you have adrenal fatigue and, if you do, the severity of your syndrome. Of course, the accuracy of its interpretation depends upon you completing every section as accurately and honestly as possible. Because there is such diversity in how individuals experience adrenal fatigue, a wide variety of signs and symptoms have been included. Some people have only the minimal number of symptoms, but the symptoms they do have are severe. Others experience a great number of symptoms, but most of their symptoms are relatively mild. That is why there are two kinds of scores to indicate adrenal fatigue.


Total Number of Questions Answered
This gives you a general Yes or No answer to the question, "Do I have adrenal fatigue?" Look at your Grand Total - Total Responses scores in the first scoring chart (total Number of questions answered). The purpose of this score is to see the total number of signs and symptoms of adrenal fatigue you have. There are a total of 87 questions for men and 89 for women in the questionnaire. If you responded to more than 26 (men) or 32 (women) of the questions, (regardless of which severity response number you gave the question), you have some degree of adrenal fatigue. The greater the n umber of questions that you responded to, the greater your adrenal fatigue. If you responded affirmatively to less than 20 questions, it is unlikely that you have adrenal fatigue. People who do not experience adrenal fatigue may still have a few of these indicators in their lives, but not many of them. If your symptoms do not include fatigue or decreased ability to handle stress, then you are probably not suffering from adrenal fatigue.







Total Points
The total points are used to determine the degree of severity of your adrenal fatigue. If you ranked every question as 3 (the worst) your total points would be 261 for men and 267 for women. If you scored under 40, you either have only slight adrenal fatigue or none at all. If you scored between 44-87 for men or 45-88 for women, then overall you have mild degree of adrenal fatigue. This does not mean that some individual symptoms are not severe, but overall your symptom picture reflects mildly fatigued adrenals. If you scored between 88-130 for men or 89 - 132 for women, your adrenal fatigue is moderate. If you scored above 130 for men and 132 for women, then consider yourself to be suffering from severe adrenal fatigue. Now compare the total points of the different sections with each other. this allows you to see if 1 or 2 sections stand out as having mores signs and symptoms than the others. If you have a predominating group of symptoms, they will be the most useful ones for you to watch as indicators as you improve. Seeing which sections stand out will also be helpful in developing your own recovery program.

Severity Index
The Severity Index is calculated by simply dividing the total points by the total number of questions you answered in the affirmative. It gives an indication of how severely you experience the signs and symptoms, with 1.0 - 1.6 being mild, 1.7 - 2.3 being moderate, and 2.4 on up being severe. This number is especially useful for those who suffer from only a few of these signs and symptoms, but yet are considerably debilitated by them.

Asterisk Total
Finally, add the actual numbers you put beside the questions marked with an asterisk (*). If this total is more than 9, you are likely suffering from a relatively severe form of adrenal fatigue. If this total is more than 12, and you answer yes to more than 2 of the questions below, you have many of the indications of true Addison's disease and should consult a physician in addition to doing the things in this book. Be sure to read the Section: Approaching Your doctor, as well as other appropriate sections in this book before consulting a physician.

Additional Symptoms
The areas on my body listed below have become bluish-black in colour

- inside of lips, mouth
- vagina
- around nipples
- I have frequent unexplained diarrhoea
- I have increased darkening around the bony areas, at folds in my skin, scars and creases in my joints.
-I have light coloured patches on my skin where the skin has lost its usual colour.
-I become easily dehydrated.
-I have fainting spells.


Interpretation of the Predisposing Factors Section
This section helps determine which factors led to the development of your adrenal fatigue. There may have only been one factor or there may have been several, but the number does not matter. One severely stressful incident can be all it takes for someone to develop adrenal fatigue, although typically it is more. The list is not exhaustive, but the items listed in this section are the most common factors that lead to adrenal fatigue. Use this section to better understand how your adrenal fatigue developed. seeing how it started often makes clearer what actions you can take to successfully recover from it. this section also leads into a following section that explores in more depth how your adrenal fatigue developed.

 

[chip douglas]

Though I haven't filled out the adrenal fatigue questionaire yet, I've started experimenting with a formula that I've had on the shelf, but hadn't really experimented with so far. This adaptogenic formula contains the following :

110 mg Rhodiola Rosea 45% Salidrosides
80 mg tribulus terrestris 40% fruit saponins
70 mg pfaffia paniculata (root, beta-ecdysterone 2.5 %)
70 mg eleutherococcus senticosus (root, eleutherosides > 0.8 %)
70 Whithania somnifera (withanolides > 1.5%)

My point is that I've taken 1 caps a day of the above, that is, since Monday. I honestly didn't expect much out of it--I swallowed it and kept on going about things as usual. However since today, my erections and libido have improved noticeably, so much so that I felt the need to share it.

I'll definately fill out the questionaire just the same, as it is very important for me to try and find out what is wrong with me. So far it seems to point towards adrenal fatigue.

My two cents.

 

[Andromeda]

Chip,

I too tried Rhodiola Rosea for a 1 month period from Feb 2006 to Mar 2006 this year when I came off hydrocortisone, and it certainly had an effect, but nowhere near as strong as hydrocortisone.
I've just been comparing the percentages of active 'salidrosides' in your product vs mine.
Mine (Life Extension 'mitochondrial energy optimizer with SODzyme' )reports Rhodiola Rosea root extract 150mg (standardised for 3% rosavins (4.5mg) and 1% salidrosides (1.5mg)

Now we were of the understanding that this was a very potent dose of rhodiola, however if yours is anything to go by its NOTHING. Then again, perhaps 1% salidrosides doesnt differ much in its effect to a product offering 40% ??? Anyone know? What is 'rosavins' a measure of and is this the most important measure?

What is your product brand / model??

Cheers in advance,

 

[chip douglas]

http://www.kamihealth.com/en/kama-en.php

This is the product I use.

 

[fister]

Can you get adrenal fatigue from taking HGH and not supplementing T3 or T4? The symptoms of adrenal fatigue sounds like what I get when on HGH. Once I started taking T4 then it just went away magically, but I just kinda felt weird in a way.

So can Isocort replace taking T3 or T4?

 

[love_en]

No, however the thyroid and adrenals do interact. For example, inadequate cortisol makes cells less able to utilize thyroid hormone. Also, low cortisol makes one more suseptible to thyroid toxicity.

 

[hardasnails1973]

I have read this thread from beginning to end and I am sure that explaination for what is occuring to me is in there.

I have adrenal salivary test done, organic acids tests, liver detoxification, amino acid urine tests, spectra cell nutrient analysis done so all the data has been gathered

Here are the result
Adrenal stress index - cortisol levels are all low , and dhea is off the charts (this no one has an explaination) but my dhea serum is low normal.

Thyroid ft3, ft4 are all low nomral, but reverse t-3 are off the charts - Dr's do not know how to treat this. .

Albunin was elevated - could this possible be from dehyration from cortisol imbalance?
low cholesterol total - indicative of adrenal insufficency
low tricycerides - fat metabolism imbalance
low ldh - zinc deficeincy as previously stated
low WBC - low b-12, foloc acid, vitamin C
low eosphils
low baso
eleavated bilirubin
low platelets
low normal free t3, free t4 normal was upper 3/4 range now its low 1/4 range
Glucose tolerace test resting 80, 1 hour 160 2 hours 60 3 hours 43 - indicates hypoglycemia possible due to hypoadrenals
low alkaline phosphatase - zinc enzyme
low normal testosterone - zinc defieincy


Organic acid should all protein, fats, carb metabolites are really low (hypometabolism from possible cellular starvation from thyroid adrenal imbalances only think I can come up with

Amino acid should all essentials were low and also that cystheine pathway in the homocystein pathway was over loaded and that i had low homocystein levels 3.9 (5.4-11.0) Which tells me i am not converting back via methione synthase pathway. and thyroid can help control this


i have excess polyunsaturated fats (Dha, EPA) from fish oils in my RBC which is probably causing excessive lipid perioxadtion due to zinc, coenzyme q 10, vitamin E deficeincy indicated on WBC nutrient analysis . I have ALA, LA , arachindonic acid deficeincy probably from cell membrane break down despite all the nuts and seeds I eat (presoaked). Also have excessive VLCFA (renegade fats) built up working on clearining them out During precontest I would reheat food in the microwave that had FLaxseed oil in it and this caused ti to go rancid that started the chain reaction of events.

My main conern is how to lower the reverse t-3 so I can get my nutrient metabolism back because its starting to affect my homocystein levels which are extremely low and no matter how much methycobalin I take i am still showing sign of b-12 deficiency.

With elevated reverse t-3 is it a good idea to take armour thyroid because since it contains t-4. Will this push the rt3 even higher causing more of a congestion. if you have proper cortisol levels will this help the t-3 get to the cell alot more effiicently and make the armour more effective. i have searched high and low on internet and can not come up with any information.
I removed all the ranicd fats taking antiodiants and balanced EFAS . Now just have to balance thyroid/adrenals this is the trickest part.

Current supplement s

200 mgs same before breakfast and mid afternoon
500 mgs TMG 1/2 hour before each breakfast lunch dinner
300 mgs rhoidola rocea 1-2 times a day (this really calms you down)
200 mgs theanine morning and may be late night
5,000 mgs methylcobalin sublingual once a day
10000 mcgs folonic acid
300 mgs pantheine breakfast and dinner - help with adrenals
60 mgs zinc
800 mgs magnesium
1200 mgs calcium
400 mgs selenium
10 % testosterone creme
8 isocort a day ( 4 ,2,,2 )
600 mgs licorace root am and before lunch
500 mgs B2
coenzyme form b complex
600 mgs coenyzme q 10
200 rala
5000 mcgs biotin
3000 mgs ester C
digestive enzyme
1 grain armout thyroid for now
3 TBSP udos choice

if i could get my adrenals and thyroid balanced (lower reverse t-3 and elevarte free t-3 and free t-4 then I could loose about 3/4 of these supplements I know that thyroid also control the zinc and b-12 metabolism

Any suggestions PS depression has been ruled out !!

 

[1cc]

More info on treatment here:

https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134243796

 

[DAVID]

I've taking for my low adrenal reserve 30 mg of hydro each day since 2001 - but I'm sure that hydrocortisone make you difficult lo lose fat with time
Look the e-mail of the top best of "integrative physician" on the world. I don't put his name for discretion


Hello Mr David:

Your diet, exercise, medication and spirituality all sound like you are doing what you should be. My suspicion is that the hydrocortisone is keeping you from losing weight. Are you a full fledged Addison's patient? Being an adrenal patient myself and having tried low dose hydrocortisone (2.5 to 5 mg daily) or an extended trial my experience was that it not only was making me gain weight (mostly water) but also changed the structure of my sphenoid and temporal bones making my face broader than it had previously been. I stopped the cortisone when it was apparent that I was growing into the moon face phase of cortisone use. If that happened at 2.5 to 5 mg, then at 30 your effects should be heightened. Is ACE (adrenal cortex extract) still available in Europe or has it been taken off the market as it has here for fear of BSE?

If you could wean yourself to lower doses of the cortisone, and use the ACE you may be able drop the water weight and whatever adipose the hydrocortisone has caused you to retain. But if you need the cortisone at that level due to Addison's, I know of no replacement for it.

One technique that I was surprised was successful with a friend of mine, an MD, who went into adrenal failure and full blown Addison's was the use of IGF 1. Once he was out of the hospital where he had lost 30 pounds, we needed to rehab him to restore his strength as he could barely arise from bed. We combined IGF 1 (sublingual spray from deer antler velvet at 3 sprays TID), with systemic enzymes at 5 to 10 TID and weight exercise. In 3-4 weeks he had regained 15 pounds and was feeling very good. Adrenal tests found some function had returned. SO either the original diagnosis of full failure was incorrect OR the IGF 1 had done something to restore partial function or rebuild the glands, which is not supposed to happen but since IGF1 is what made them grow in the first place as an infant one can theorize that it might be possible. He went from using 50 mg of cortisone a day to 2.5 to 10 depending on the stress of the day.

Hope these ideas help.

Be well and God bless,

 

[swordfish]

Thanks to some reasearch and a great site like this, all signs are pointing to Adrenal Problems.

Ok, since I was about 14, i suffered some sort of fatigue issue that has never been properly diagnosed. The first day of high school, i got sick to my stomach and puked in the bathroom.

From that point on I would get a nauseous feeling before sex, meeting new women, new jobs, etc. I am always very sick in the mornings, no appetite, etc.I have never been 100% even on my good days, however now I want to find some answers.

Docs I have seen so far have been clueless, but i'm going to see an endocrinologist this week.

So i am doing all the lab/saliva test recommended and will have results soon.

The primary care physcian lab results were as follows:

t4 - 7.38 (4.5-12.0) ug/dl
TSH - 2.34 (.50-5.0)
Testosterone 301 (241-827ng/dl)

I'm banking my cortisol levels are wacked, but we won't know for sure until labs come in..

I'll keep you posted and thanks for the support.