Adrenal Thread

[JanSz]

Are you getting your DHEA tested? I can't help but think you are taking way to
high of a dose. Most books state up 100mg or so for a man.
It would only make since that this much DHEA is converting to Estradiol.

Yes DHEA is on the list, I asked for abreviated version of my tests:
Short test October 2006
Total Estrogens
estrone
Estradiol, sensitive
Progesterone
Pregnenolone
Total Testosterone
Free Testosterone
DHT (dihydrotestosterone)
prolactin, serum
SHGB, serum
Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH)
Free triiodothyroxine (T3)
Total T3
Free T4
DHEA Sulfate
Cortisol, 4 Specimens
Hematocrit
========================
Cortisol test is still on hold, I am waiting for results on everything else.
------------------------------------------
Just to think some more about DHEA,
couple of months ago LEF started supplying 100mg pills of DHEA.,
so now I take 3-100mg pills instead of previous 14-25mg little pills, yes I cut the dose little bit.

 

[Vforcer2]

We should have a good idea of what is going on with those tests.

 

[ShyGuy]

I am new here to this forum and I have been dealing with fatigue, depression, low libido for the past year.......... In the past 2 months my hair has miniaturized/thinned dramatically all over my head.... I went from a full head of thick hair to a full head of miniaturized/miniaturizing hair all over my head, yet I have no recession and no balding, My scalp hair has also changed color from dark blonde/light brown to copper blonde, my facial hair is not growing as much and has thinned and changed color as well, my pubic and underarm hair seem to be thinner/lighter in color.....

I had blood work done and a saliva cortisol test... my results are as follows,,,,

Estradiol is 40 ref>0-53
testosterone is at 745 ref>241-827
Free Test is 20.3 ref> 8.7-25.1
Dhea-s is 206 ref>280-640
LH is 3.7 ref>1.5-9.3
FSH is 4.4 ref>1.4-18.1
Pregnenolone is 15 ref>10-200
SHGB is 31 ref>13-71
DHT is 61 ref>25-75

Cortisol
8am - 8.3 high/normal

Noon- 3.4 Low/normal

6pm- 9.6 HIGH

10:30 pm-2.7 HIGH

does anyone know what is going on with me and my sympotms and how I can deal with it? Can High cortisol cause hairloss, depression, fatigue?

 

[JanSz]

Are you getting your DHEA tested? I can't help but think you are taking way to high of a dose.
Most books state up 100mg or so for a man.
It would only make since that this much DHEA is converting to Estradiol.

Well, here are my lattest results, waiting for your comments Vforcer2.
I am usually tried on afternoons.
My basal temp is only 96.7 - 97
Think may be a little of Armour Thyroid would perk me up?
My E2 is ok, but not sure of what to do with Total Estrogen, I just added back DIM and I3C from LEF on top of
Chrysin with piperine, try to not to use Arimidex but have it just in case.
Started again my Avodart, month and half with out it plus my enlarged prostate
raised my DHT from 29 (too low) to 226,
for long term I think I will use Avodart every other day or even every third day, shuting for upper part of desired range.
.
Short test October 2006
Total Estrogens------------------------------ ---260 pg/mL (40-115) LEs Optimal Range: 4077 pg/mL
estrone, serum------------------------------- ----78 pg/mL (12-72)
Estradiol, sensitive--------------------------- ----27 pg/mL (3-70) LEs Optimal Range: 1030 pg/mL
Progesterone---------------------------------- ----1.4 ng/dL (0.3-1.2)
Pregnenolone---------------------------------- ----23 ng/dL
Total Testosterone-------------------------- ---932 ng/dL (241-827) LEs Optimal Range 500827 ng/dL
Free Testosterone--------------------------- --36.5 pg/mL (6.6-18.1)
DHT (dihydrotestosterone)--------------- ---226 ng/dL LEs Optimal Range: 3050 mg/dL
prolactin, serum----------------------------- ----4.2 ng/dL (2.1-17.7)
SHGB, serum-------------------------------------
(TSH)-------------------------- --1.89 uIU/mL (0.350-5.5) LEs Optimal Range: 0.35 to 2.1 mIU/mL
Free triiodothyroxine (T3)----------------- --2.9 pg/mL (2.3-4.2)
Total T3------------------------------------------ ---104 ng/dL (85-205)
Free T4(direct)-------------------------------- --1.37 ng/dL (0.61-1.76)
DHEA Sulfate------------------------------------- ---369 ng/dL LEs Optimal Range: 400500 g/dL
Cortisol, 4 Specimens---------------------------
Hematocrit---------------------------------------- --45.6 % (36-50)

 

[Vforcer2]

Jamsz,
Are your cortisol tests are not back yet?

You could probably benefit from Armour, however if you have adrenal problems they should be addressed before the thyroid.

Had you been on DIM before this test? Curious since those estrogens are so high and your E2 near 30. It would be better if your E2 were around 20 or under.

With your DHT being so high I am assuming you are on gels or creams?

 

[JanSz]

Jamsz,
Are your cortisol tests are not back yet?

You could probably benefit from Armour, however if you have adrenal problems they should be addressed before the thyroid.

Had you been on DIM before this test? Curious since those estrogens are so high and your E2 near 30. It would be better if your E2 were around 20 or under.

With your DHT being so high I am assuming you are on gels or creams?

My Cortisol test hit a snag (sort of), I did not went thru with 4 specimens as written. Got another script for Cortisol AM/PM, but not sure if I want to be poked again since the good doctors, on this and the other board always knock down Cortisol tests results. Supposedly symptoms are more important. As for symptoms, I complain about low basal temperature (thyroid??) and tiredness on afternoons (adrenals??).
------------------
Because I had a problem getting erection (with Cialis) I was suspecting high E2.
Six weeks before my blood test I stopped Avodart, Arimidex, DIM and I3C.
I never stopped Chrysin with piperine.
Now seeing my results, I resumed Avodart, DIM and I3C.
Dec. 1 I have a doctor's appointment to check my prostate and PSA.
It is at Sloan Kettering NYC.
After that I will change Avodart to possibly every third day.
-------------------
I am on 2x5grams Androgel daily.
The doc at Sloan would kill me if he knew about it.
-------------------
Chrysin 4 capsuled daily, 750 mg plus other stuff
http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00615.html

DIM and I3C, one capsule/day
http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00855.html

 

[Vforcer2]

That Avodart would scare me, personally. If it is like proscar or propecia then it can cause permanent damage with regards to libido and ED. Just beware it is applauded by some and cursed by others that have suffered the ill effects. Besides I am not convinced that DHT is the culpret with enlarged prostates. I rather think the E2 is the enemy there, especially when we know that aging men don't have high DHT, they have high E2. So it is important for you to get those estrogens down some more and see if it gives you relief and retest your estrogens.

I could be wrong in my theory on the prostate and DHT, and your DHT is SKYHIGH and this is because of the Androgel. It is the nature of the beast. You can lower your dose since your T is too high anyway and you can try to get some progesterone cream since it apposes DHT and has a calming effect on the nervous system. I don't know exactly how much you would need, but you can buy the stuff online or get a script. The other option is to discontinue the Androgel and switch to subq injections or pellets.

Chyrsin is known to be poorly absorbed in the body. I know that lef says that piperline increases the absorption, but how do we really know that? I don't know many guys on Chrysin, so it is hard to judge how well it works. If Dim is not doing the job, and it flat does not do the job for some men, then you need to consider using low doses of Armidex 3 days per week, many guys use .25 mg and adjust as needed.

If you suspect adrenal fatigue then you can start a taking ISOCORT for immediate help. I used to have 4-6 pm fatige. My cortisol results backed up my symptoms as my cortisol was the lowest at that time period in the day. You can also take Rx hydrocortisone called CORTEF.

I would recommend you go over to www.stopthethyroidmadness.com and speak with Val. She knows adrenal fatigue really well and how to treat it with hydrocortisone. She can also take a look at your thyroid labs and make a recommendation on a starting dose of Armour. Those guys over there are invaluable and they talk thyroid and adrenals day and night like we do T.

Because Isocort increased my blood sugars too high, I used a different protocol of Panothenic Acid (vitamin B) 1500mg, Licorice Root 3 caps, Vitamin C-3grams, DHEA 12.5 mg, and Pregnenolone 25-50mg. However I do recommend the hydrocortisone first since it is less expensive and easier than taking all that I mentioned.

 

[Vforcer2]

I am new here to this forum and I have been dealing with fatigue, depression, low libido for the past year.......... In the past 2 months my hair has miniaturized/thinned dramatically all over my head.... I went from a full head of thick hair to a full head of miniaturized/miniaturizing hair all over my head, yet I have no recession and no balding, My scalp hair has also changed color from dark blonde/light brown to copper blonde, my facial hair is not growing as much and has thinned and changed color as well, my pubic and underarm hair seem to be thinner/lighter in color.....

I had blood work done and a saliva cortisol test... my results are as follows,,,,

Estradiol is 40 ref>0-53
testosterone is at 745 ref>241-827
Free Test is 20.3 ref> 8.7-25.1
Dhea-s is 206 ref>280-640
LH is 3.7 ref>1.5-9.3
FSH is 4.4 ref>1.4-18.1
Pregnenolone is 15 ref>10-200
SHGB is 31 ref>13-71
DHT is 61 ref>25-75

Cortisol
8am - 8.3 high/normal

Noon- 3.4 Low/normal

6pm- 9.6 HIGH

10:30 pm-2.7 HIGH

does anyone know what is going on with me and my sympotms and how I can deal with it? Can High cortisol cause hairloss, depression, fatigue?

What is your age? Are you currently on TRT? Are you overweight? Do you workout?

Your T levels are excellent, however your Estradiol is too high. You need to try and get that closer to 20.

Your DHT is probably the problem with your hair loss as it is much higher than anyone I have previously seen that is not on TRT(I am assuming you are not). Also you could just be genitically predisposed to male pattern balding.

Your cortisol appears to be high as well which could mean that you have Cushings disease. Research it and see if you have any of the symptoms.

 

[ShyGuy]

Im 33 yrs old, male, 6'0", 8% body fat, 190lbs.. Im pretty ripped up, weight train 4-5 times a week , I am not on TRT or any hormone except 10mg dhea...... I have had low testosterone for the past 2-3 years (usually around 300 -390ng/dl) and LH was always around 3.0..... about 3 months ago I started seeing a girl and to try and help my libido I used a bottle of vitrix (tribulus tetris) for about 2 weeks or so... it seemed to help my libido a little bit, but when I went to have my blood work done about a week or two after using the vitrix (trib tetris).... I think that would explain why my testopsterone (free and serum)/ LH/ estradiol went up....... Ironically, the next month is when I started thinning/miniaturizing like crazy I havent used that stuff since and my libido is kind of back in the crapper again.... I can perform (erections are easy) but I really dont feel that interested.... anyway my doc started me on 10mg of Dhea due to my low dhea level and by the way on another blood test that I recently had done my IGF-1 was low 197ng/ml....... my doc is ordering more indepth cortisol tests as well as a sleep hormonal test (tests melatonin, dopamine, etc....)
could the extral cortisol be causing my libido, depression, fatigue, hair problems....... also if DHT were affecting me then why is libido crap and facial hair not growing normally... doesnt dht regulate and promote libido and auxillary hair growth?

 

[JanSz]

That Avodart would scare me, personally. If it is like proscar or propecia then it can cause permanent damage with regards to libido and ED. Just beware it is applauded by some and cursed by others that have suffered the ill effects. Besides I am not convinced that DHT is the culpret with enlarged prostates. I rather think the E2 is the enemy there, especially when we know that aging men don't have high DHT, they have high E2. So it is important for you to get those estrogens down some more and see if it gives you relief and retest your estrogens.

I could be wrong in my theory on the prostate and DHT, and your DHT is SKYHIGH and this is because of the Androgel. It is the nature of the beast. You can lower your dose since your T is too high anyway and you can try to get some progesterone cream since it apposes DHT and has a calming effect on the nervous system. I don't know exactly how much you would need, but you can buy the stuff online or get a script. The other option is to discontinue the Androgel and switch to subq injections or pellets.

Chyrsin is known to be poorly absorbed in the body. I know that lef says that piperline increases the absorption, but how do we really know that? I don't know many guys on Chrysin, so it is hard to judge how well it works. If Dim is not doing the job, and it flat does not do the job for some men, then you need to consider using low doses of Armidex 3 days per week, many guys use .25 mg and adjust as needed.

If you suspect adrenal fatigue then you can start a taking ISOCORT for immediate help. I used to have 4-6 pm fatige. My cortisol results backed up my symptoms as my cortisol was the lowest at that time period in the day. You can also take Rx hydrocortisone called CORTEF.

I would recommend you go over to www.stopthethyroidmadness.com and speak with Val. She knows adrenal fatigue really well and how to treat it with hydrocortisone. She can also take a look at your thyroid labs and make a recommendation on a starting dose of Armour. Those guys over there are invaluable and they talk thyroid and adrenals day and night like we do T.

Because Isocort increased my blood sugars too high, I used a different protocol of Panothenic Acid (vitamin B) 1500mg, Licorice Root 3 caps, Vitamin C-3grams, DHEA 12.5 mg, and Pregnenolone 25-50mg. However I do recommend the hydrocortisone first since it is less expensive and easier than taking all that I mentioned.

I am not that scared of Proscar or Avodart.
I have been using Proscar for couple of years and couple years ago switched to Avodart when it became available. My theory is that either one is lovering DHT too much and that is a reason for people having problems with them. I am assuming that if I can adjust my Avodart's dose in such a way that my DHT stays around LEF desired 30-50 then I should be ok.
On daily dose of Avodart my DHT was=29, (between low DHT and Low E2 I developed bad ED),
luckily I am ok now.
Avodart's half life is quite long, so individual cap may last long time that is why I am thinking of one cap every 3 days.
.----------------------
I will check www.stopthethyroidmadness.com board, thank you.
I have an ostheopath doc who will give me script for whatewer I want but he is leary about me dealing with my adrenals or thyroid.
He told me that I should look first at his adrenals/thyroid patients, they look like a s**t comparing to me. I guess his experience is mostly with really run down people.
I am 66yo, 5'9", 155#, not really fit but I dance a lot (girls + more girls) so it cannot be all that bad.
As long as my brains work and I am able to get good information,
I plan on staying in the best shape I can.
.
Appreciate your comments.
.

 

[Vforcer2]

Im 33 yrs old, male, 6'0", 8% body fat, 190lbs.. Im pretty ripped up, weight train 4-5 times a week , I am not on TRT or any hormone except 10mg dhea...... I have had low testosterone for the past 2-3 years (usually around 300 -390ng/dl) and LH was always around 3.0..... about 3 months ago I started seeing a girl and to try and help my libido I used a bottle of vitrix (tribulus tetris) for about 2 weeks or so... it seemed to help my libido a little bit, but when I went to have my blood work done about a week or two after using the vitrix (trib tetris).... I think that would explain why my testopsterone (free and serum)/ LH/ estradiol went up....... Ironically, the next month is when I started thinning/miniaturizing like crazy I havent used that stuff since and my libido is kind of back in the crapper again.... I can perform (erections are easy) but I really dont feel that interested.... anyway my doc started me on 10mg of Dhea due to my low dhea level and by the way on another blood test that I recently had done my IGF-1 was low 197ng/ml....... my doc is ordering more indepth cortisol tests as well as a sleep hormonal test (tests melatonin, dopamine, etc....)
could the extral cortisol be causing my libido, depression, fatigue, hair problems....... also if DHT were affecting me then why is libido crap and facial hair not growing normally... doesnt dht regulate and promote libido and auxillary hair growth?

Your low libido can be caused by a number of things. When did it start becoming a problem?

If I had to peg one thing it would be your high estradiol level of 40. It is puzzling that you have low BF but high E2. I would lower the E2 level and see if that helps.

I don't know if the high cortisol is causing your problems or not. Not many here have high cortisol, but rather low instead. Google it.

 

[ShyGuy]

about 5 months I decided to put some weight on in the gym and I started lifting a lot heavier and ate alot more red meat... within a month I packed on a good 8lbs of muscle, only using creatine and eating more red meat (no prohormones) the thing I didnt like about getting bigger was that my six pack disappeared and then I noticed some excess fat on my nipple area which kind of freaked me out.... so I dieted back down to about 5% body fat and stablized at the 8% bf where I am at now.... the only thing which is weird is that I have some skin crease lines right under my pecs which is annoying as well as 2 stomach crease lines that I never had before... Im wondering if my E levels increase when I was gaining weight and aso i was taking EPO (evening primose oil) during that time for GLA supplementation..... maybe my E levels never went back down....

 

[rashton83]

I come to this thread with great interest. I have been researching and researching this topic for years now.

When I started, in 2002, not many were willing to listen. It's amazing how much this has spread, how much awareness there is now on the Internet in the past few years. It's great to see.

A little back history on myself:

As a child, lots of allergies, asthma, food allergies, infections, colds, etc.

As a teenager, found it VERY hard to get up in the morning (late for school many a time), constantly missing school due to sinus infections and colds, fatigued, started becoming sensitive to light, sophomore year of high school my hair started diffusely thinning. Dermatologist said MPB, I remember my mother thinking he was full of it since I was 15 with little genetic hair loss in family, but she did not know why it was happening either. He did take my thyroid TSH, which was 2.3 at the time.

Nothing much has changed since then. I'm now 23. When I turned 19, I said enough is enough, I have so many strange symptoms, I need to do something about this. Maybe I was primarily driven by the hair thing, which always seemed weird to me.

I stumbled onto hypothyroidism. My basal temps were always very low. Sometimes as low as 95.5.

Went to an alternative doc in early 2002. Still see him now, although not terribly often. He checked thyroid, TSH was 1.98 and FT3 and FT4 were not quite midrange but just below. We also did an IgG food allergy blood test, got lots of positives on that and I went on a very restricted diet that didn't help and made me lose a ton of weight. Did a heavy metals urine test, mercury and lead came back very strong. Finally, an adrenal saliva test showed low cortisol throughout the day. DHEA was low-normal.

My focus for the next few years was metal chelation and food avoidance. My doc and I thought that those two together would fix the adrenal problem, and thus the thyroid problem. Never happened.

In late 2004, I had a Lyme test done with him after I thought I saw a tick on my hand briefly. IgeneX IgM and IgG positive. Have no idea now how long I may have had it, whether it was new or long-standing. Lots of my symptoms and conditions over the years could have been attributed to it. We live in an area with LOTS of Lyme. Took doxy for 6 weeks and tried other things, herbs from a Chinese doctor in NYC, etc.

In summer 2005 I had my third thyroid test done. FT3 was in the middle, FT4 was low-normal, and TSH was .98.

In spring 2006 I had a test for pyroluria done. 0-15 normal, 15-20 moderate pyroluria, 20+ severe, I scored an 81. Pyroluria is a condition that primarily causes zinc and B6 deficiencies.

At this point, I've done minor things here and there. Treat the Lyme, treat the metals, try this, try that, but nothing has gotten me anywhere.

This past month I finally got sick of it and, for the first time in a long time, checked my basal temps. No better. They are just as low as they ever were. Yesterday morning was 96.5. I still suspect low adrenal hormones. I will be taking a home saliva cortisol/DHEA test early next week.

I have a bottle of Cortef I never used that's not past its expiration. I will be monitoring my day and basal temps carefully. Getting a baseline thyroid/cortisol reading.

I will be taking the Cortef first for at least a month. I will check my temps. If basal reading is still low, I will slowly add Armour (which I also have) and recheck. Once I get my temps in range, I will recheck my adrenal/thyroid hormones with another test.

What do you all think?

 

[rashton83]

btw, marianco - I am very impressed by your knowledge on this matter. There needs to be more doctors like you in the world. I would love to hear your opinion on my situation.

 

[Vforcer2]

Rashton, you are tenacious to say the least.

It is possible you are now on the right course though we can't be positive. I have not tested my morning basel temps lately but they have NEVER been normal, so I would not use that test as the "be all end all" for proving thyroid/adrenal disorders.

Your TSH is pretty darn good right now at less than 1, however thyroid disease must not be treated purely by the numbers, especially this one. The numbers can help guide us, but elimination of symptoms are the guiding lights. Free T3 & Free T4 are the numbers the help the most and your goal will be to get them towards the top of the range if not a little bit over, depending on how you feel. Addressing the adrenals first is neccasary because you will further stress them by taking Armour.

I am sure you have read this thread already, but the good folks at www.stopthethyroidmadness.com are real heros in helping folks like us. I am thankful for the guidance they have given me. I have suffered for many years with low thyroid, I think in part due to a tonsilectomy and adnioidectomy as a 12 year old because shortly thereafter this skinny as a rail boy started putting on weight, and at a fast rate. I have since struggled with weight my entire life. Apparantly when doing that surgery the thyroid can be damaged and/or blood flow can be permanantly reduced to the thyroid glands.

I also recommend a book called "From Fatigued to Fantastic" by Jacob Teitelbaum, MD. He is a brillant integrative physician. His website it www.endfatigue.com

Another good resouce is www.drrind.com

So are you saying you tested positive for Lyme disease?

 

[pmgamer18]

btw, marianco - I am very impressed by your knowledge on this matter. There needs to be more doctors like you in the world. I would love to hear your opinion on my situation.

I am Hypopituitary just found out after being on TRT for over 23 yrs. My blood tests have allways been low normal for DHEA, Cortisol, IGF-1, Thyroid, Glucose and the one below normal was Testosterone. I started on Isocort 4 months ago did this for 2 mornths taking 8 pills a day =ing 20 mgs. of Cortisol. I have been taking my Temp's and charting them for the last 6 months. This I feel helps but I must say when I took the first pill of Isocort I have this overwhelming feeling of well being like a ton of weight was lifed off my body. I get sick every winter with Bronchitis and each time it is worse then the last. All your long I have sinis problems and get infections. I now feel this is all because of low levels of Cortisol. I just finished the book by Jefferies called "Safe Uses Of Cortisol" in this book the Dr. talks about allergys, autoimmune disorders, CFS and Viral Infections. All being helped by takeing 5mgs 4x's a day of HC. And to stress dose up to 10mgs 4 times a day when one feels they are getting sick. I use this site to print out and chart my Temps.
http://www.drrind.com/tempgraph.asp#directions
Here is a ling to where you can buy the book.
http://www.ccthomas.com/details.cfm?P_ISBN=039807500X
Read this thread dam good info.
https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134239555

 

[rashton83]

I have suffered for many years with low thyroid, I think in part due to a tonsilectomy and adnioidectomy as a 12 year old because shortly thereafter this skinny as a rail boy started putting on weight, and at a fast rate.

Well, that's interesting. I had the same surgery when I was 11, and before that I was very skinny. I became chubby afterwards. All I know about the surgery is I threw-up mid-surgery due to all the blood.

However, I did get skinny again in high school, but that's when I started showing low adrenal symptoms.

And yes, I did test positive for Lyme.

 

[rashton83]

Btw, when I got the .98 TSH, I had been taking thyroid glandulars just 5-6 days prior. Dunno if that skewed the result at all.

Also, with that test, FT4 was low-normal and FT3 was just below the middle.

IMO you can't get accurate thyroid readings until the adrenals are looked after.

 

[pmgamer18]

Btw, when I got the .98 TSH, I had been taking thyroid glandulars just 5-6 days prior. Dunno if that skewed the result at all.

Also, with that test, FT4 was low-normal and FT3 was just below the middle.

IMO you can't get accurate thyroid readings until the adrenals are looked after.

Start taking you Temp and charting it when your Temps stop going up and down then start on some Armour.
http://www.drrind.com/tempgraph.asp#directions

 

[rashton83]

Start taking you Temp and charting it when your Temps stop going up and down then start on some Armour.
http://www.drrind.com/tempgraph.asp#directions

Yeah, my temps vary pretty widely. My non-basal temps have ranged from 97 to 99 in the past couple of days. It seems to always go down after exercise, which is a big symptom of adrenal insufficiency.