Old
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How long after hcg shot did you get blood work? It has a short half-life (24 to 36 hours).
Guess at this point would be start PCT and see where that takes you.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Advice on bloodwork from power pct
- Thread starter ScruffMcBuff
- Start date
Guess at this point would be start PCT and see where that takes you.
Sworder
Member
Having low e2 during PCT is beneficial. Don't tank it though, keep it around 20 pg/ml if you can.
Too much SERMs, half the dose. Also, Why are you doing SERMs twice the amount both the first and second week? The reason why people double the dose the first week is to frontload, you are frontloading and frontloading.... Makes no sense.
You are not frontloading hCG.
I didn't read the details but if you haven't done hCG in a while then you are going to want a higher dose than 500 iUs. Also, you don't stop the HCG until you have confirmed by labs that your Total Testosterone is about 500 ng/dl+. Or if you know your pre cycle tT you should go close to that. It is labs that confirm when your testes are ready.
Nolva & Clomid have been standard practice for decades and now you want to reinvent the wheel? Why? <- You probably want to have a very strong reason to go against tested practices.
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Took last shot on friday morning took bloods monday morning. As far as pct goes what would be a good protocol?
Sworder
Member
Your leydig cells in the testes aren't working. You need to redo the hCG protocol and you should only stop when your tT is elevated to an acceptable level. I would say at least 500-600+ ng/dl.
If you do PCT with nolva and clomid you will produce a lot of LH and FSH but you won't produce testosterone because your balls aren't working. It will be a waste of time and drugs to do PCT at this point.
Also, you probably should have had half a clue what you were doing before you started asking questions...
Having low e2 during PCT is beneficial. Don't tank it though, keep it around 20 pg/ml if you can.
Agreed
Hard for me, since I feel better at higher E
Too much SERMs, half the dose. Also, Why are you doing SERMs twice the amount both the first and second week? The reason why people double the dose the first week is to frontload, you are frontloading and frontloading.... Makes no sense.
Simply because I want to speed up recovery, BUT I dont handle that high amount of SERMs well,
So I bite the bullet for the first while, then tone it down so I can actual stand the sides
You are not frontloading hCG.
Incorrect terminology, you are correct, but you get my point within context.
I didn't read the details but if you haven't done hCG in a while then you are going to want a higher dose than 500 iUs. Also, you don't stop the HCG until you have confirmed by labs that your Total Testosterone is about 500 ng/dl+. Or if you know your pre cycle tT you should go close to that. It is labs that confirm when your testes are ready.
Yes, from past experience, around 5000ius will do it for me (So long as I hit another 5k at mid cycle, my testes shut down quite slowly for some odd readon)
However, as I get older, bloodwork to confirm that my previous experience is still relevant... is a good idea.
Nolva & Clomid have been standard practice for decades and now you want to reinvent the wheel? Why? <- You probably want to have a very strong reason to go against tested practices.
Quite simple answer
I dont tolerate Nolva well, I cant deal with the sides.
Torem I can.
Much milder and I dont hate my life during PCT
Is it better?
No,
It's actually weaker than Nolva.
Why do you run Primo... when you can run more Tren?
Agreed
Hard for me, since I feel better at higher E
Too much SERMs, half the dose. Also, Why are you doing SERMs twice the amount both the first and second week? The reason why people double the dose the first week is to frontload, you are frontloading and frontloading.... Makes no sense.
Simply because I want to speed up recovery, BUT I dont handle that high amount of SERMs well,
So I bite the bullet for the first while, then tone it down so I can actual stand the sides
You are not frontloading hCG.
Incorrect terminology, you are correct, but you get my point within context.
I didn't read the details but if you haven't done hCG in a while then you are going to want a higher dose than 500 iUs. Also, you don't stop the HCG until you have confirmed by labs that your Total Testosterone is about 500 ng/dl+. Or if you know your pre cycle tT you should go close to that. It is labs that confirm when your testes are ready.
Yes, from past experience, around 5000ius will do it for me (So long as I hit another 5k at mid cycle, my testes shut down quite slowly for some odd readon)
However, as I get older, bloodwork to confirm that my previous experience is still relevant... is a good idea.
Nolva & Clomid have been standard practice for decades and now you want to reinvent the wheel? Why? <- You probably want to have a very strong reason to go against tested practices.
Quite simple answer
I dont tolerate Nolva well, I cant deal with the sides.
Torem I can.
Much milder and I dont hate my life during PCT
Is it better?
No,
It's actually weaker than Nolva.
Why do you run Primo... when you can run more Tren?
Sworder
Member
Re: E2, you are probably lowering your e2 too much, SERMs increase e2 as well. So just use a minimal amount, MY MINIMAL amount not your version of minimal.
Use the best tool for the job.
That's not how it works. It makes me upset reading this. You don't get more results from using more drugs. Stop thinking that way please!!!
Ofc, I just have a need to correct something.
Yes, it's a great idea.
You are using astronomical SERM doses brother. No wonder you can't handle it.
I don't run primo, the AAS I use are testosterone and Trenbolone. Sometimes NPP if I get joint or tendon pain.
Use the best tool for the job.
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Thanks for the info. Ive tried researching my issue but couldn’t find the right answers or steps to take that’s why i made this thread. I’ve already done the hcg protocol once before prior to this so i’m not sure if this is where the road ends and to start trt or keep on with the hcg. I mean my TT only rose from 237 to 280 this time around so i’m not sure if that’s a good sign or a waste to keep on continuing with the hcg alone.
@Sworder I was taking 1000iu EOD the second time around. Should I have been taking a lot higher?
Sworder
Member
No, but you should have done it for a longer duration though. If your testes are not producing enough testosterone you do not go to the next step.
Let me guess, you didn't buy enough hCG so you ran out..
What’s the proper duration? I followed dr scallys protocol which stated 15 days. Now this time around i took it for one month. Yes i did run out because I was hard headed and was hoping for the best this blood work. The real kicker is i’ve seen three different endos in my area and 2 wanted to put it on clomid and the one kept insisting i “wait” it out every two months i saw them.
Jurgen
Well-known Member
Seems you were still running hcg and serms together? Suppressing lh while trying to raise lh is counterproductive?
Sworder
Member
That's what I am trying to explain.
The proper duration for the hCG isn't based on days. It is based on your LABS.
You need to order more hCG. I would get 30k-50k. Might as well stock up.
The first time around i followed this protocol
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Sworder
Member
That isn't even what Scally would recommend. Find the posts here on Meso that Scally has done.
No way he would say to do clomid BID @ 50mg.
Sworder
Member
Don't wait 4 whole days for labs next time either. C'mon man
I appreciate your wisdom. I’ve mistaken as the last shot i took was sunday and i drew bloods on monday since i was taking hcg EOD. There are so many variations i’m seeing of the program and the ones im coming across show to take serms along and that’s why i did it the first time around.
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Sworder
Member
Ah okay that's where @The Terminator got HPGA from
That "program" is sh!t. It wasn't Dr Scally that wrote that.
The Terminator
Well-known Member
Just get more hCG, maybe something better if you’re using ugl and give it more time. You could take clomid or tamoxifen with your hCG if you wanted to so long as you finish with the typical serm only pct. Not really needed unless fertility was your main concern or if you had significant atrophy. I’ve taken them together before and I could feel a positive difference, but like I said not truly necessary and if you were to take together you’d still need to do a serm only protocol for the appropriate length of time etc
Old
New Member
The test might not be so bad as there were 3 days between 1000 iu hcg and blood test. If ...
- half-life of 24 hours, hcg would be ~125 which would not produce much testosterone
- half-life of 36 hours, hcg would be ~250 which still wouldn't produce much
What was your T before TRT? Being shut down since 2013 would likely make resuming good natural production take longer. Remember 281 is a whole lot better than 91.
You could work with hcg longer as some have suggested. It isn't going to harm to try to get this number higher this way. Then test after few hours (no more that a day) after your hcg injection rather than days - this will give a more accurate picture of how well hcg is working for you.
Another thing, the reference you posted said to you need to get higher than 400 ng/dl. (Unfortunately it said nothing about how many days to wait). 281 is getting closer to 400 than you were.
Perhaps it is best to persist with hcg to get over 400ng/dl whether this takes 1 month or 3 months. Only then proceed with PCT. This at least gives a rational to proceed with ... otherwise kind of seems one is jumping around with ideas.
Thanks for the info yeah i made the mistake for some reason so my last shot was on sunday not friday and then drew bloods on monday. Seems like a long recovery ahead i just didn’t know if my TT going from 237 to 281 was a big enough jump to continue.
