Anabolic Steroids & Liver [GI]

[Ed Plucker]

I know I'm a lightweight compared to most here, but I run a 12 wk orals-only cycle (which includes a 4 wk NO ORALS, mini-PCT break in the middle) with 50mg Var and 30-40 mg Winny. I use an assload of milk thistle stand. extract coupled with my Liv-52 (a must), before, during and after....but I try to take my liver protectants at least 4 hours before OR after my orals, bcuz I've heard a couple bros at my gym say it might limit my gains. But I never personally experienced that before, so who knows. But better safe then sorry.

Why would you ru an oral only cycle? It makes no sense unless you're afraid of needles and if you are then you need to consider what that shit is doing to you. You only get one liver and oral anabolics will tear it up. Trust me. After 6 weeks on 50mg of winstrol my HDL was 7!! I haven't run orals since and probably won't even again. You don't need them because the injectables work so much better and don't have any liver toxicity.

 

[Rupling]

Everything's got a price.....injectables have their own set of issues, especially relating to increasing the chances of diabetes later in life, renal issues, blood sepsis, etc. There are no freebies when tinkering with the human body. Like any prescription drug---no matter how supposedly "safe" it is, you can read a whole assload of potential side-effects on the bottle. Shit, just read the back of a Tylenol bottle and see what it says not only about the liver, but potential effects on your kidneys and eyes as well. There is a give and take in life, but in the end, life has to end for us all....how you want to spend it is up to you. Hopefully, a person can lead a productive and happy life without it being at the expense of others

 

[Ed Plucker]

This is true and I think we all take this step knowing the potential risks. But I think if you weigh the risk vs reward AAS have a very good safety profile. Stay away from orals because they don't do anything that injectables can't and do it much safer. Of all the drugs out there prescription and otherwise I truly believe that AAS are some of the safest out there. But they're not for everyone. This much is abundantly clear. You have to go into this thing with your head on straight. Don't mega-dose gear, take at least 3-4 months off per year, don't use orals. If you follow these three simple rules you will be fine when it comes to AAS use. Also don't act like a belligerent asshole.

 

[Docd187123]

This is true and I think we all take this step knowing the potential risks. But I think if you weigh the risk vs reward AAS have a very good safety profile. Stay away from orals because they don't do anything that injectables can't and do it much safer. Of all the drugs out there prescription and otherwise I truly believe that AAS are some of the safest out there. But they're not for everyone. This much is abundantly clear. You have to go into this thing with your head on straight. Don't mega-dose gear, take at least 3-4 months off per year, don't use orals. If you follow these three simple rules you will be fine when it comes to AAS use. Also don't act like a belligerent asshole.

There's a good amount of oral AAS that are far more potent than any injectable out there

 

[Ed Plucker]

There's a good amount of oral AAS that are far more potent than any injectable out there

I am aware that there are a lot of potent oral AAS. All I am saying is that they are not necessary to build a good body. There's not an oral in existence that compares to injectable trenbolone. I know that orals tend to work faster than injects but if you have some patients you will get the same results with injectables and not risk screwing up your liver or kidneys...

 

[Docd187123]

I am aware that there are a lot of potent oral AAS. All I am saying is that they are not necessary to build a good body. There's not an oral in existence that compares to injectable trenbolone. I know that orals tend to work faster than injects but if you have some patients you will get the same results with injectables and not risk screwing up your liver or kidneys...

Oral tren compares and more to injectable tren.

AAS induced choleostasis is a very rare occurrence....

 

[Ed Plucker]

Oral tren compares and more to injectable tren.

AAS induced choleostasis is a very rare occurrence....

Metribolone is very strong but you're making my point for me as this is one of the most toxic steroids that you can take. Why not just use injectable trenbolone and not risk compromising your liver and/or kidneys? If you want to mess around with orals and do 12-16 weeks cycles of orals I hope you have a nice funeral. Sooner or later this is going to catch up to you and once you screw up your liver you're basically fucked. Once you have permanently damaged your liver and have cirrhosis you're only hope is a liver transplant and I haven't seen very many ripped and muscular bros on the transplant list.

 

[Docd187123]

Metribolone is very strong but you're making my point for me as this is one of the most toxic steroids that you can take. Why not just use injectable trenbolone and not risk compromising your liver and/or kidneys? If you want to mess around with orals and do 12-16 weeks cycles of orals I hope you have a nice funeral. Sooner or later this is going to catch up to you and once you screw up your liver you're basically fucked. Once you have permanently damaged your liver and have cirrhosis you're only hope is a liver transplant and I haven't seen very many ripped and muscular bros on the transplant list.

Your point in the post I quoted was that there's not an oral that can compare to injectable tren. I countered with an oral that's even stronger. We weren't discussing risk-benefits but I agree the risk is a lot lower with the injectable version.

My entire point is that, orals in many cases are just as strong or stronger, do have a place in cycles depending upon the goals of the individual, and that running them WISELY is not as dangerous as you're making it out to be.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

[OA] Liebe R, Krawczyk M, Raszeja-Wyszomirska J, et al. Heterozygous Inactivation of the Nuclear Receptor PXR/NR1I2 in a Patient With Anabolic Steroid-Induced Intrahepatic Cholestasis. Hepat Mon 2016;16(8):e35953. Heterozygous Inactivation of the Nuclear Receptor PXR/NR1I2 in a Patient With Anabolic Steroid-Induced Intrahepatic Cholestasis - Hepatitis Monthly - - Kowsar

INTRODUCTION: The incidence of liver damage due to steroid consumption is increasing due to the omnipresence of the idealized body image and the widespread availability of drugs via the Internet. The genetic factors underlying individual susceptibility are not presently known.

CASE PRESENTATION: A male patient developed cholestatic liver injury two weeks after a two-month course of anabolic steroids. Next-generation sequencing (NGS) of 24 cholestasis-related genes revealed a heterozygous two-basepair deletion in exon 1 of the pregnane X receptor gene (PXR). Serum bile salt levels showed marked imbalances, strongly resembling the changes observed in patients with biliary obstruction.

CONCLUSIONS: This case of PXR haploinsufficiency reveals transcriptional regulatory functions activated in the liver under xenobiotic stress by steroids, which appear to require two functional copies of the nuclear receptor gene. Deranged bile salt levels outline the central role of PXR in bile acid synthesis, modification, and export.

 

[ConanTheBruhbarian]

I know I'm a lightweight compared to most here, but I run a 12 wk orals-only cycle (which includes a 4 wk NO ORALS, mini-PCT break in the middle) with 50mg Var and 30-40 mg Winny. I use an assload of milk thistle stand. extract coupled with my Liv-52 (a must), before, during and after....but I try to take my liver protectants at least 4 hours before OR after my orals, bcuz I've heard a couple bros at my gym say it might limit my gains. But I never personally experienced that before, so who knows. But better safe then sorry.

Holy shit dude 12 week oral cycles with only 4 weeks off and you think milk thistle and Liv-52 are really going to save you? How long have you been doing this?

 

[Ed Plucker]

Your point in the post I quoted was that there's not an oral that can compare to injectable tren. I countered with an oral that's even stronger. We weren't discussing risk-benefits but I agree the risk is a lot lower with the injectable version.

My entire point is that, orals in many cases are just as strong or stronger, do have a place in cycles depending upon the goals of the individual, and that running them WISELY is not as dangerous as you're making it out to be.

I do agree with you bro. Orals have a place but should be used judiciously. Its important that we are clear when a newbie comes on here and asks about doing a 16 week oral-only cycle. If you want to use AAS you should be ready and able to inject them. Until that point you should stay away.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

OA] Diaz FC, Saez-Gonzalez E, Benlloch S, et al. Albumin dialysis with MARS for the treatment of anabolic steroid-induced cholestasis. Ann Hepatol 2016;15(6):939-43. http://www.annalsofhepatology.com/vista?accion=viewArticle&idart=1395

BACKGROUND AND AIMS. Steroid-related hepatotoxicity has become one of the most relevant causes of drug induced liver cholestasis. Some patients do not improve after standard medical treatment (SMT) and may therefore require other approaches, like extracorporeal liver support.

MATERIAL AND METHODS: We report four cases of patients with pruritus, abnormal liver function tests and biopsy-proven anabolic steroid-induced cholestasis who were unresponsive to SMT. They underwent treatment with albumin dialysis (Molecular Adsorbent Recirculating System -MARS(R)-). A minimum of two MARS sessions were performed.

RESULTS: After MARS(R) procedure, patients' symptoms improved, as well as liver function tests, thus avoiding liver transplantation.

CONCLUSION: Albumin dialysis appears as a valuable therapeutic option for the management of anabolic steroid-induced cholestasis in patients that are unresponsive to SMT.

 

[Rupling]

Holy shit dude 12 week oral cycles with only 4 weeks off and you think milk thistle and Liv-52 are really going to save you? How long have you been doing this?

It's not about the length of the cycle per say, but about the specific type of oral AAS being used--along with the ED dosage--coupled with additional preventative measures for the liver, such as Liv-52 and milk thistle....you can do just a 4 week oral cycle, BUT if it consists of 100mg of Halo each day, I'll take my liver after my 12 wk cycle of Var over your 4 wk cycle ANYTIME bro.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

[For Full-Text Email mike.scally@asih.net (Include Title)]

Navarro V, Khan I, Björnsson E, Seeff LB, Serrano J, Hoofnagle JH. Liver Injury from Herbal and Dietary Supplements. Hepatology. Liver Injury from Herbal and Dietary Supplements - Navarro - 2016 - Hepatology - Wiley Online Library

Herbal and dietary supplements (HDS) are used increasingly both in the United States and worldwide and HDS induced liver injury in the U.S. has increased proportionally.

Current challenges in the diagnosis and management of HDS-induced liver injury were the focus of a 2-day research symposium sponsored by the American Association for the Study of Liver Disease and the National Institutes of Health.

HDS-induced liver injury now accounts for 20% of cases of hepatotoxicity in the United States based on research data.

The major implicated agents include anabolic steroids, green tea extract, and multi-ingredient nutritional supplements (MINS).

Anabolic steroids marketed as bodybuilding supplements typically induce a prolonged cholestatic, but ultimately self-limiting liver injury that has a distinctive serum biochemical as well as histological phenotype. Green tea extract and many other products, in contrast, tend to cause an acute-hepatitis like injury.

Currently, however, the majority of cases of HDS-associated liver injury are due to MINS, and the component responsible for the toxicity is usually unknown or can only be suspected. HDS-induced liver injury presents many clinical and research challenges, in diagnosis, identification of the responsible constituents, treatment and prevention.

Also important are improvements in regulatory oversight of non-prescription products to guarantee their constituents and insure purity and safety.

The confident identification of injurious ingredients within HDS will require strategic alignments among clinicians, chemists, and toxicologists.

The ultimate goal should be to prohibit or more closely regulate potentially injurious ingredients and thus promote public safety.

 

[Rupling]

[For Full-Text Email mike.scally@asih.net (Include Title)]

Navarro V, Khan I, Björnsson E, Seeff LB, Serrano J, Hoofnagle JH. Liver Injury from Herbal and Dietary Supplements. Hepatology. Liver Injury from Herbal and Dietary Supplements - Navarro - 2016 - Hepatology - Wiley Online Library

Herbal and dietary supplements (HDS) are used increasingly both in the United States and worldwide and HDS induced liver injury in the U.S. has increased proportionally.

Current challenges in the diagnosis and management of HDS-induced liver injury were the focus of a 2-day research symposium sponsored by the American Association for the Study of Liver Disease and the National Institutes of Health.

HDS-induced liver injury now accounts for 20% of cases of hepatotoxicity in the United States based on research data.

The major implicated agents include anabolic steroids, green tea extract, and multi-ingredient nutritional supplements (MINS).

Anabolic steroids marketed as bodybuilding supplements typically induce a prolonged cholestatic, but ultimately self-limiting liver injury that has a distinctive serum biochemical as well as histological phenotype. Green tea extract and many other products, in contrast, tend to cause an acute-hepatitis like injury.

Currently, however, the majority of cases of HDS-associated liver injury are due to MINS, and the component responsible for the toxicity is usually unknown or can only be suspected. HDS-induced liver injury presents many clinical and research challenges, in diagnosis, identification of the responsible constituents, treatment and prevention.

Also important are improvements in regulatory oversight of non-prescription products to guarantee their constituents and insure purity and safety.

The confident identification of injurious ingredients within HDS will require strategic alignments among clinicians, chemists, and toxicologists.

The ultimate goal should be to prohibit or more closely regulate potentially injurious ingredients and thus promote public safety.

 

[Rupling]

Doc, I believe this is like the 3rd time you've posted this article....are you trying to make a point by blindly--and repeatedly--parroting someone else's work? Or as a PhD of medicine, have YOU actually done any new research of your own to add some actual facts to the discussion? Because if you are trying to say that only oral AAS and MINS are the problem, then maybe you've never heard of all the other orals that have been abused by the general public for decades, like Tylenol. And how many drunks have been battering their livers for decades, and are still alive--without being strapped to a dialysis machine? MILLIONS. The liver is meant to process out some--even a lot--of crap from the human body....yes, it should not be abused, but saying that taking any quantity of oral AAS or MINS constitutes abuse in of itself is misleading....do you post this same stuff on blogs about over-the-counter (oral) pill abuse?

 

[Rupling]

It's been about a week and no one wants to respond?? With all the false info being thrown around as fact and science about important topics such as the liver and AAS, I think this DEFINETLY deserves a BUMP!!

 

[Gnarkill]

You can start the cycle with a short and a longer estered AAS. It won't kick in as fast as the orals but it will be start faster than the long ester alone.

Yes I totally agree. Let's say a cycle of just test start with prop with a wee bit of e or c for 3 weeks and also taper off with a short esters always worked great for me no sides and blood stays level as fuck

 

[Big_paul]

Yes I totally agree. Let's say a cycle of just test start with prop with a wee bit of e or c for 3 weeks and also taper off with a short esters always worked great for me no sides and blood stays level as fuck

Run your test prop 100mg eod for 2 weeks, and the full dosage of test cyp or e which ever you are running.

You crash with dbol. Every time I ever used dbol to start the first 4 weeks of a cycle, it was demoralizing when I went off. I always lost strength and size. Using an injectable like test prop works better for me.

 

[Rupling]

Honestly, I can't ever say I've heard a bro regret starting off any cycle with Dbol unless he was already like 50% BF or had a face like a pumpkin to start with hahahaha!!!!