Can turinabol cause gynecomastia or not?

[G0ld]

Can someone give me a correct answer to my question? If turinabol is a non-aromatizing steroid, why do some people say it can still cause gynecomastia?

If it's a non-aromatizing steroid, wouldn't that mean it doesn't externally add testosterone to the body, meaning there won't be any extra testosterone to be converted to estrogen, causing elevated estrogen levels?

As far as I know, turinabol suppresses natural T production, meaning hCG is needed during the cycle to prevent testosterone from becoming too low, leading to less aromatization and less estrogen, osteoporosis, etc...

Is my understanding correct? I already asked similar questions a few times, but I only got some jokes and people didn't take me seriously.

I want to make my first steroid cycle but I don't want to risk gynecomastia yet.

 

[Type-IIx]

OK dude. I’m going to spell it out for you.

Tbol might shut down your HPTA after a few weeks, it might after a few years of constant use, and it might not at all. You could be fine or you could stop producing testosterone (and therefore Estrogen and DHT), altogether. Nobody can tell you what will happen.

As far as I’m aware there haven’t been any relevant studies in the public domain on Tbol’s effect on the HPTA so we can only go on what other androgens do. Some are very suppressive and some are less so but they’re all to some extent a risk. I know @Type-IIx is adamant that Tbol won’t shut you down but unless I’ve missed something, he hasn’t cited any sources to back up his claim; it’s just an appeal to authority.

If after your extensive research you’re still not confident about taking steroids safely, then I’d hold off for a decade or so and use them when you actually need them.

Anyway, like I said earlier, dehydrochloromethyltestosterone's gonadotropic effect is readily inferred from existing data. Specifically, from Dorner (1963 & 1965), and Holma & Adlercreutz (1976), we are able to say what I said here:


If you were interested in these references or how I arrived at this conclusion, why didn't you just ask?

This is not the domain of opinion, and is based on authoritative data, unlike Sports Illustrated columns.

If you weren't such a cunt I'd have given these citations to you in AMA format; but alas, you are, so here we are. You have all the info. needed to find these, so go ahead.

 

[Jin23]

In all my years of being on the aas scene, I have not once seen bloods on bodybuilding relevant dosages, of any oral, which didn't result in more or less complete hpta shutdown.

I'm quite surprised hearing all this talk about tbol not leading to shutdown. 30 to 50mg's of tbol, taking less doesn't make much sense for OP, should bring endogenous T production to functionally irrelevant levels.

I'd advise taking hcg with it for estrogen. Me personally, I simply can't imagine going on for 8 to 10 weeks with zero estrogen. Fragmented sleep, dehydrated, pissing all the time, anxiety, too much mental energy, etc. etc. @G0ld don't be an idiot, take something for estrogen. YOU DO REALIZE THERE IS SUCH A THING AS TRANSDERMAL TESTOSTERONE?

 

[Type-IIx]

For anyone else, legitimately interested in how I was able to infer that OT suppresses LH & FSH minimally, to the tune of 10% at 20 mg/d, see:

Dorner, G., Stahl, F., & Zabel, R. (1963). Vergleichende Untersuchungen über den Stoffwechsel von 4-Chlortestosteron- und Testosteronverbindungen bei Menschen. Endokrinologie. 45: 121-128.

Dorner, G. (1965). 4-chloro-Δ¹-methyltestosterone (Oralturinabol), a new orally effective anabolic agent. Dtsch. Gesundheitwes. 20: 670-674.

Holma P, Adlercreutz H. (1976). Effect of an anabolic steroid (metandienon) on plasma LH-FSH, and testosterone and on the response to intravenous administration of LRH. Acta Endocrinol (Copenh). Dec;83(4):856-64.

Based on those data, we can say that due to the effects of 4-substitution on the activity of OT it exerts very minimal effects on LH & FSH.

Since OT has only 20% of the gonadotrophic effect of Dbol (whose effects on LH, FSH at 15 mg daily have been shown to decrease LH & FSH ~50%; therefore it follows that OT only decreases LH & FSH by about ~10% [reflecting a minimal decrement in HPG axis functioning/"HPT axis suppression"] at a dose of 20 mg daily).

 

[I6JQdr06]

If you weren't such a cunt I'd have given these citations to you in AMA format; but alas, you are, so here we are. You have all the info. needed to find these, so go ahead.

Y’see. If you’re basing an assertion that you’re right and everyone else is wrong on seemingly unrelated studies, the onus is on you to provide proper citations and some indication of how you arrived at your inference. Until then it’s just an appeal to authority, and seeing as you’re an anonymous poster on a web forum for bodybuilders, you have no authority to refer to.

 

[G0ld]

Okay that's enough.

OP;
Can you run oral only?
Sure you can.

Will you get good results from oral only?
No, you will not.

Is your concern about infection valid?
Yes, is it realistic? No.
So long as you're selecting a reliable source with a good track record and plenty of testing, the chances of you getting an infection due to manufacturing/sterility issues is almost zero. 9/10 infections are a result of user error and not following safe and sterile injection practices.

You won't get gyno from tbol.
You won't gain any noticable muscle from your planned oral only cycle.


Every single one of your questions and concerns has been answered ad nauseum at this point. You are clearly a kid looking for validation rather than advice, so listen to what information you've been told or don't. Regardless if you continue to push the subject, then you're just trolling.

Ok, thanks.

Yes, I know I won't get significant result from a turinabol-only cycle, especially the way I want to use it.

Anyway, I have a reason to use oral steroids for my first cycle, as it will be mostly a test, not a professional cycle.

As for the gyno, I won't get it due to direct aromatization, because turinabol doesn't aromatize. My question is, are there other mechanisms, beside aromatization, turinabol can trigger to cause gynecomastia? For example, is an elevated estrogen level THE ONLY WAY for gynecomastia to occur, or are there other types of hormonal imbalances that also can cause gynecomastia?

I heard something about progestin and that turinabol can trigger this hormone to cause gynecomastia.

Thanks for you reply.

 

[Type-IIx]

In all my years of being on the aas scene, I have not once seen bloods on bodybuilding relevant dosages, of any oral, which didn't result in more or less complete hpta shutdown.

I'm quite surprised hearing all this talk about tbol not leading to shutdown. 30 to 50mg's of tbol, taking less doesn't make much sense for OP, should bring endogenous T production to functionally irrelevant levels.

I'd advise taking hcg with it for estrogen. Me personally, I simply can't imagine going on for 8 to 10 weeks with zero estrogen. Fragmented sleep, dehydrated, pissing all the time, anxiety, too much mental energy, etc. etc. @G0ld don't be an idiot, take something for estrogen. YOU DO REALIZE THERE IS SUCH A THING AS TRANSDERMAL TESTOSTERONE?

You always hear it repeated, but if it's the case, shouldn't there be bloodwork showing it?

There isn't, because everyone accepts full suppression for maximal anabolism, or uses testosterone, which is potently suppressive!

 

[Type-IIx]

Ok, thanks.

Yes, I know I won't get significant result from a turinabol-only cycle, especially the way I want to use it.

Anyway, I have a reason to use oral steroids for my first cycle, as it will be mostly a test, not a professional cycle.

As for the gyno, I won't get it due to direct aromatization, because turinabol doesn't aromatize. My question is, are there other mechanisms, beside aromatization, turinabol can trigger to cause gynecomastia? For example, is an elevated estrogen level THE ONLY WAY for gynecomastia to occur, or are there other types of hormonal imbalances that also can cause gynecomastia?

I heard something about progestin and that turinabol can trigger this hormone to cause gynecomastia.

Thanks for you reply.

There are other gynecomastic mechanisms (e.g., GH/IGF-I increases, gestagenic activity) that do not apply to Oral Turinabol.

 

[Type-IIx]

This kid is beyond help, doesnt want to listen to anyone.

This is why this is irritating. causes people to waste time

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I understand why you're irritable, you have Anadrol coursing through your veins. I'm off blast right now, so that's why I'm taking this kid's perfectly legitimate questions in stride more. Sure he is a bit arrogant, but he's also a cocksure 20-something who's being attacked vs. helped in about a 10:1 ratio on this AAS harm reduction board.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I understand why you're irritable, you have Anadrol coursing through your veins. I'm off blast right now, so that's why I'm taking this kid's perfectly legitimate questions in stride more. Sure he is a bit arrogant, but he's also a cocksure 20-something who's being attacked vs. helped in about a 10:1 ratio on this AAS harm reduction board.

Actually not in anadrol right now. I think I was just pissy yesterday.

I was restraining myself until he made multiple topics over the same "can I run a tbol cycle".

 

[MindlessWork]

I am sure @G0ld would have many questions for @Type-IIx who has the patience of a saint..for now at least.

 

[Jin23]

You always hear it repeated, but if it's the case, shouldn't there be bloodwork showing it?

There isn't, because everyone accepts full suppression for maximal anabolism, or uses testosterone, which is potently suppressive!

Yes, I have seen enough blood work on it, albeit mostly around 50mg's, that showed very moderate suppression. Not here on meso, but on other boards which are more lenient towards oral only cycles - or where less people b&c and more cycle, ie. users which are more concerned about suppression. Lot's of talk back in the day about orals + serms too, trying to prevent shutdown, but even those experiments always failed. Some were done with tbol + serm and some were done with var + serm.

I once ran only Ostarine at 25mg to see what happens. I had testosterone and everything else at hand, and at 5 weeks time I did bloods. LH was untouched/normal as if being natty, and TT was basically zero. Which is interesting and was the first time I really started to think about androgens direct or "functional" effects on gonads and testosterone secretion (these are normal bloods for ostarine btw, I'm not an outlier). Either way, this seemingly irrelevant story aside, of which I can't quite pinpoint it's discursive relevance, me personally, I would never suggest somebody do a tbol only cycle at anything above 10 maybe 20mg's without expecting suppression. But those dosages are relevant only to athletes, where any extra advantage is put to good use and certainly not for bodybuilding ... Yes forum anecdotes and blood work, I have no studies to share ...

Have you had any clients on 30 - 50mgs where bloods showed very little suppression?

 

[Type-IIx]

Actually not in anadrol right now. I think I was just pissy yesterday.

I was restraining myself until he made multiple topics over the same "can I run a tbol cycle".

You're not? Didn't you say you were like, a few days ago? Anyway, OK.

 

[Type-IIx]

Yes, I have seen enough blood work on it, albeit mostly around 50mg's, that showed very moderate suppression. Not here on meso, but on other boards which are more lenient towards oral only cycles - or where less people b&c and more cycle, ie. users which are more concerned about suppression. Lot's of talk back in the day about orals + serms too, trying to prevent shutdown, but even those experiments always failed. Some were done with tbol + serm and some were done with var + serm.

Where? Links?

Germane to this conversation, what we need are suboptimal doses for anabolism of OT solo.

Do you have that data?

I doubt it bro.

OP is the first person I've seen situated to provide this kind of bloodwork data in... forever.

I once ran only Ostarine at 25mg to see what happens. I had testosterone and everything else at hand, and at 5 weeks time I did bloods. LH was untouched/normal as if being natty, and TT was basically zero. Which is interesting and was the first time I really started to think about androgens direct or "functional" effects on gonads and testosterone secretion (these are normal bloods for ostarine btw, I'm not an outlier). Either way, this seemingly irrelevant story aside, of which I can't quite pinpoint it's discursive relevance, me personally, I would never suggest somebody do a tbol only cycle at anything above 10 maybe 20mg's without expecting suppression. But those dosages are relevant only to athletes, where any extra advantage is put to good use and certainly not for bodybuilding ... Yes forum anecdotes and blood work, I have no studies to share ...

Ostarine is pretty suppressive at that dose, then. Good to know. But doesn't inform anything here.

Have you had any clients on 30 - 50mgs where bloods showed very little suppression?

No, I'd never use such a ridiculous cycle, for a man anyway. And female bodybuilders are unicorns when you're not a female coach.

 

[Type-IIx]

I am sure @G0ld would have many questions for @Type-IIx who has the patience of a saint..for now at least.

LOL! I'm not often accused of that in reality.

I think I'm probably selfishly curious about this particular question, and would urge OP to provide us with bloodwork to see the extent of suppression.

I totally invite being wrong. I don't use published data to argue against empirical data. On the contrary, I try to weigh both to figure out a) what is likely to occur (predictive power), and/or b) why things occur (explanatory power). Big difference.

 

[bigboy420]

Thats it. This thread should end. Let him learn. Let him go thru hell if he refuses to listen

 

[MindlessWork]

LOL! I'm not often accused of that in reality.

I think I'm probably selfishly curious about this particular question, and would urge OP to provide us with bloodwork to see the extent of suppression.

I totally invite being wrong. I don't use published data to argue against empirical data. On the contrary, I try to weigh both to figure out a) what is likely to occur, and/or b) why things occur. Big difference.

So maybe then OP is really onto something...or maybe a nothing burger. If he has the bloodwork that will show whether he's right or just plain wrong.

But to me OP gives the vibe of being an ignorant arrogant fool. If he can prove you and us wrong then he's gonna feel smug.

 

[Jin23]

Where? Links?

Blah, no offense, no way am I going to search for this now It's reddit and AM mostly. Orals + serms have been discussed at AM ad nauseam.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

You're not? Didn't you say you were like, a few days ago? Anyway, OK.

I was yes. Lol I decided to hop off for a bit.(nothing bad, no sides lol)

 

[dafqu1]

tbol is the new ostarine or anavar for first cycle hes not onto anything hes just doing what he hears other broccoli heads talking about lol.This is it this is the finally it the steroid where u can stay natty bro no downsides!!

 

[Type-IIx]

Blah, no offense, no way am I going to search for this now It's reddit and AM mostly. Orals + serms have been discussed at AM ad nauseam.

That's helpful