Test_Subject
Member
You're asking the wrong person since I didn't make that claim. I was responding to buddy's "it's no big deal" comment which was incredibly stupid.
It's funny that you both responded less than a minute apart.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Canadian Domestic: Pareto Pharmaceuticals 2020
- Thread starter ParetoPharmaceuticals
- Start date
You're asking the wrong person since I didn't make that claim. I was responding to buddy's "it's no big deal" comment which was incredibly stupid.
It's funny that you both responded less than a minute apart.
MadBret
Member
It wasn't lady var that was tested. It was regular strength anavar tablets that had a 20% variance between the tabs and one was a bit more than 50% overdosed.
Pareto also admitted to altering the test that identified this.
Is it really too much to get a clear answer as to whether they are using the more accurate pill machine to make the 5mg dosed anavar?
Why do you believe this doesn't matter that they were never clear and have so far maintained radio silence? How hard is it to say hey guys, just to clear up the confusion, yes we do use the more accurate press or no we don't...
I think the reason they haven't responded is because they don't use the more accurate machine and are probably using their same old overdosed recipes that they previously mentioned using.
It's fucking weird how opposed to accountability a lot of you guys seem to be.
I can respect that some of you are happy customers, but don't know why you think they shouldn't have to answer any questions.
Human_backhoe
Member
First off. I am not bashing Pareto. I didn't bring up all the old garbage. I am bringing up one already public and in reality unresolved issues. I have never had an issue with any of their gear. Yes we have good labs in Canada.
No we wont hold them accountable or ask for simple things like testing of raws. Pictures of lab ect that the rest of Meso demands.
There were pills that were 50 percent overdosed. So for a female that is 5mg x 3 daily, 5x3=15. 15x1.5= 22.5mg. Big difference there!
We take people at their word without verification. If someone changes a recipe and doesn't test to make sure the changes worked. How do we know it was actually fixed? We don't!
As for the more "accurate" machine that is doing the clen and t3 ect. You are running a 3 phase motor off of single phase and it is heating and wearing on the motor. If the sine wave is not separated by 90 degrees then the speed of that motor is not accurate! This is where a $100 dollar VFD comes in (variable frequency drive). This can take single phase and turn it into 3 phase! What motor on the press is it? If the motor has to do with dosing I can promise it's speed is not consistent. When it comes to clen and t3 that could be a big fucking problem. It also will not damage the motor as it is currently claimed this is happening.
To all of you yes the reps for Pareto are great and fast and friendly. Unfortunately this doesn't resolve this problem. As opposed to a simple answer like....."hey the motor on the accurate press is just the mixer and has nothing to do with the dosing" and "yes we have had or dosages checked since " or even "hey yes we will send some out to verify that the changes were good". We have this dumpster fire.
Legitimate questions met by nothing but hostility on a uncensored board lol. What a fucking joke.
You have more loyalty to a glorified drug dealer, than your own community. Just because " the rep is fast and friendly ". Or " I" have never had a problem". Yes the reviews are good and damn the gear is good and I'm sure everyone sees a results. That doesn't fix 2 potential problems. This is why women don't post on these boards. The second a question is brought up pertaining to your favorite dealer.
I don't even want a answer now lmao. All is good. Go back to your circle jerk hahah.
No we wont hold them accountable or ask for simple things like testing of raws. Pictures of lab ect that the rest of Meso demands.
There were pills that were 50 percent overdosed. So for a female that is 5mg x 3 daily, 5x3=15. 15x1.5= 22.5mg. Big difference there!
We take people at their word without verification. If someone changes a recipe and doesn't test to make sure the changes worked. How do we know it was actually fixed? We don't!
As for the more "accurate" machine that is doing the clen and t3 ect. You are running a 3 phase motor off of single phase and it is heating and wearing on the motor. If the sine wave is not separated by 90 degrees then the speed of that motor is not accurate! This is where a $100 dollar VFD comes in (variable frequency drive). This can take single phase and turn it into 3 phase! What motor on the press is it? If the motor has to do with dosing I can promise it's speed is not consistent. When it comes to clen and t3 that could be a big fucking problem. It also will not damage the motor as it is currently claimed this is happening.
To all of you yes the reps for Pareto are great and fast and friendly. Unfortunately this doesn't resolve this problem. As opposed to a simple answer like....."hey the motor on the accurate press is just the mixer and has nothing to do with the dosing" and "yes we have had or dosages checked since " or even "hey yes we will send some out to verify that the changes were good". We have this dumpster fire.
Legitimate questions met by nothing but hostility on a uncensored board lol. What a fucking joke.
You have more loyalty to a glorified drug dealer, than your own community. Just because " the rep is fast and friendly ". Or " I" have never had a problem". Yes the reviews are good and damn the gear is good and I'm sure everyone sees a results. That doesn't fix 2 potential problems. This is why women don't post on these boards. The second a question is brought up pertaining to your favorite dealer.
I don't even want a answer now lmao. All is good. Go back to your circle jerk hahah.
Oldschool
Member
All I know is they wouldn’t call your wife “ladyboy” to your face. And that’s all I have to say about that.
Human_backhoe
Member
All I know is they wouldn’t call your wife “ladyboy” to your face. And that’s all I have to say about that.
Lol. Oh I know that one. Just trolls. With the reading comprehension of my dog, only not as high IQ.
Human_backhoe
Member
I also remember when symbiotics and tgi were the GoLd standard. They went through 6x the vetting of Canadian sources.
This is a lost cause.
Seriously, a quick answer would have sufficed, but the shill army jumped in and made.things 10x more dramatic than would EVER be required.
This wouldnt have been even remotely blown up into craziness if people had just stfu and let pareto answer for.better or worse
All I know is they wouldn’t call your wife “ladyboy” to your face. And that’s all I have to say about that.
Lol
Nope, they most certainly wouldnt.
I can guarantee that lol
MisterSuperGod
Well-known Member
Where is that rep anyway? Meh, who needs him. The shills did their job of protecting the hand that feeds.
No need for a rep to get his hands dirty when the shills are already down in the muck on their hands and knees.
muscletrain
Well-known Member
At no point did I say I don't want to see their lab setup is fuckin love to I even pointed out that my FTIR test I got on their var said sucrose not MCS for binder. Hell I'm not even using their stuff right now. And yeah everything I said in that Stanford thread was valid so what's ur fucking point ? He ignored every single request for pics too. Earning a good rep and not posting lab photos can be mutually exclusive, I think a few people have already brought up the hypocrisy of the big boy Canadian labs skirting requirements for meso.
Guys, what is going on here?
I see there was a legitimate question asked at one point, but this is nuts.
I am hardly on MESO RX anymore, but I can always be reached at the email:
PARETO@PROTONMAIL.COM
If you have any questions, I encourage you to shoot me an e-mail and I am happy to assist.
I see there was a legitimate question asked at one point, but this is nuts.
I am hardly on MESO RX anymore, but I can always be reached at the email:
PARETO@PROTONMAIL.COM
If you have any questions, I encourage you to shoot me an e-mail and I am happy to assist.
To answer your questions about Female Anavar.
Because it is made for women, it will be dosed spot on as per procedure. It can also be made on either machine, as dosing a 5mg tablet can easily be accomplished using either one. That choice depends on the production queue.
I see one user is commenting about the machine being three phase vs single phase and how it might affect the tablets. The issue has to due with the motor overheating, as well as the machine being prone to time consuming maintenance. If you have any more questions, I would invite you to e-mail me as well.
If you want to know if your tablets are the correct dose, and you don't want to send it for testing? Weigh them. The tablets should be of a uniform weight, of which I can discuss the exact weight given the type of tablet you have. Once again, you are free to e-mail me for any technical assistance you may need.
In all honestly, I feel like I have covered this issue in it's entirety. A simple e-mail could have sufficed as I do check that every single day.
Because it is made for women, it will be dosed spot on as per procedure. It can also be made on either machine, as dosing a 5mg tablet can easily be accomplished using either one. That choice depends on the production queue.
I see one user is commenting about the machine being three phase vs single phase and how it might affect the tablets. The issue has to due with the motor overheating, as well as the machine being prone to time consuming maintenance. If you have any more questions, I would invite you to e-mail me as well.
If you want to know if your tablets are the correct dose, and you don't want to send it for testing? Weigh them. The tablets should be of a uniform weight, of which I can discuss the exact weight given the type of tablet you have. Once again, you are free to e-mail me for any technical assistance you may need.
In all honestly, I feel like I have covered this issue in it's entirety. A simple e-mail could have sufficed as I do check that every single day.
Last edited:
I will post this again, as it very clearly outlines the cause of the issues, and the steps taken to solve them.
Tablet Dosing:
“One of these tests was edited by the Rep in order to falsely report the results. This test, when pulled directly from the Jano website, showed the true results indicated overdosing of an oral compound by 25-50%, with a variance between tablets of more than 20%. Unfortunately, the Rep chose to hide these results rather than address and/or correct the issue. This is especially concerning to the Moderators as the source continues to sell items labelled with microgram specific dosing, but fails to dose oral anabolics within 10mg of accuracy”
OK, so let's get into the meat of this. The most important thing here is the issue with the Anavar test report, submitted by a third party
I make Anavar 25mg per tablet, and I have done so for the last half decade. The issue brought up, is the accusation that we have no control over our dosing. The opposite is true. We have been using the same recipes for close to five years. The equipment we use for tablet manufacturing complies with GMP standard, and includes everything you need to make properly dosed products. I am not talking about TDP presses and geometric dilution- this setup consists of large volume GMP V-Blenders, powder micronizing units, and multiple GMP rotary tablet presses. Every person who is involved in the creation of Pareto products is highly educated, and I commend them on their attention to detail and work ethic.
I won't get into much detail in our injectable production, but in five years I have not had a report of debris, or uneven dispensing in our vials. We use digital machinery for mixing and dispensing all our our injectable based products- if you take 400 testosterone Enanthate vials and lay them side to side, there should be close to ZERO variation in fill levels. In short, we have spent the money required to be one of the highest quality labs in Canada.
As for my choice to make Anavar 25mg: If you would like to see my exact recipe, you can PM me- I have no issue sharing it with a well known member. You can argue for or against this, but the logic is this. Before the days of HPLC testing- you had to trust your raw supplier. Thus, it was better to be 'safe than sorry', meaning it's better to spend a little more money and give a slightly higher dose, if there was a chance the raw product wasn't pure. Given that this was the standard, I saw no reason to change it as time went by. Now, the forums operate one way, but the vast majority of sales are based on client feedback. The methods chosen at inception have resulted in a product that is sometimes slightly overdosed, well made, and free from risk of adverse health effects (infection, PIP, etc). I have made this my life's work, to make a product well, and create a strong brand. It's extremely frustrating to see the Pareto name dragged through the mud because of one tablet testing result.
Pareto was not always the large brand it was today, but the basic principles have remained basically unchanged since inception. Going back to the report submitted by a third party Pareto user, This explains why the first tablet is high powered. For the second, overdosed, tablet, I need to explain more about the production process.
We have multiple types of tablet presses at our warehouse, and each unit has it's pros and cons. To give a simple run down, you can compare our units to guns. Two most common assault rifles are the AK-47, and M16. The AK-47 is a very reliable weapon, and can withstand a very harsh environment without malfunction, or the need for repair. The drawback of the AK-47 is that it is less accurate that the M16. The M16 is a very accurate weapon, but is more temperamental, and more likely to fail under adverse conditions. So what does this mean for production of oral steroids?
We have units that are incredible reliable, durable, and are great for producing medium dosed tablets (5-25mg), but are less capable at handling high dose (50mg) or low dose (100 mcg) items. The reason for this is simply design. Less moving parts; no digital/computer controls, or hydraulic systems. These machines can run all day (and have been lately) with minimal repair or downtime.
For the outlier items, we have to use a more accurate and expensive machine. This is digitally controlled, and works extremely well. Now, you are probably thinking “Why don't you use this machine for everything?”
Great question. The motor on the advanced press is meant to be a 3 phase electric motor, but I had it converted into single phase. This was due to the lack of 3 phase power availability at the warehouse at the time. The result of this means we can not use the press as often as we would like due to risk of damaging the motor from the stress of running single phase. On top of this, I commissioned a specialized addition to help increase accuracy of tablet dosing. This part is prone to breaking, and creates a huge backlog when this occurs. As a result, this machine is only used for items such as clenbuterol, t3, viagra, cialis, etc.
Now that you have some background on the process, I will explain what I believe to have gone wrong with the Anavar result. Anavar is mostly done in the durable tablet press. The design of this press is a powder hopper, attached to a force feeder. When the powder hopper is nearly empty, the force feeder is able to spin freely and more easily push powder into the die. The result will be a heavier tablet- it will look darker, and be harder to break in half. This does not always happen, but can on occasion. This is the only logical reason for having a tablet variance close to 20%, as we employ pharmaceutical V- blenders for mixing of our tablet mix.
When I heard about the report, the first thing I did was e-mail Janoshik and ask what the weight of the tablet was. He did not have this measurement, as his method of testing does not call for this. The reason I asked, was because I have reason to believe that the overdosed tablet was one of these “hard tablets”.
As he was unable to give me this information, I took it upon myself to investigate further. I did a check up on production with my employee who is on control of oral production, and found that upon replication of the same Anavar batch, the tail end of the tablets would be heavier and harder. I corrected the process by instructing the employee to change the settings on the machine when the hopper is at a certain fill level, and it solved the issue.
I then put my attention to the report. Here is where I will admit a huge fault, and this is against all the MESO principles which I am proud to say I earned my salt on. I believed the overdosed tablet to be a one off issue which was now solved, I chose to remove that result from the test, as chalked it up to an outlier.
On the same note, for 100mcg tablets we do use a step blending method to achieve as close as possible to proper dosing. For those who don't understand what I mean, step-blending is a multi stage process where extremely small dosage APIs can be evenly distributed into large tablets. There is a reason why Pareto makes clenbuterol and T3 in the 100mcg dosage, and it is because step blending, while effective, is not a perfect process. I would always suggest to a client that they purchase pharmaceutical grade T3, or liquid Clenbuterol from Pareto, if they need sub 50mcg doses. I stand by this statement to this day- without wet granulation, you can not be 100% accurate at the mcg dosing level.
But going back to the edited report: I don't think much needs to be said on this, as many have pointed out and shown me that this basically nullifies the entire point of testing Pareto for the history of our operations. I get it, and I agree. It's the only time I have ever opted to do this, and I realize now that I caused more drama by my unethical action.
The statement that I feared, which has become the rally call for expulsion from SST, is that I am unable to control dosing of the products. I chose to remain silent on the issue, as it is well known that among the many forum users, many are involved with other labs. I would not be surprised if some of the users in this forum were not involved in competitor operations. Hell, I would be having a field day if my biggest competition got bad press like this! But remaining silent seemed the wrong choice, as I see now. I hope my explanation lends some insight into the process we use at Pareto, and I invite any question about our production methods.
I would reckon most sources on MESO or SST have not had the experience I have had with tablet production. Hell, I don't think many of our competitors even use a tablet machine, or have built one from the ground up like I have, multiple times. I would be curious to see the results from the capsules being created on a “CAP M QUIK” which other small outfits are clearly using.
Tablet Dosing:
“One of these tests was edited by the Rep in order to falsely report the results. This test, when pulled directly from the Jano website, showed the true results indicated overdosing of an oral compound by 25-50%, with a variance between tablets of more than 20%. Unfortunately, the Rep chose to hide these results rather than address and/or correct the issue. This is especially concerning to the Moderators as the source continues to sell items labelled with microgram specific dosing, but fails to dose oral anabolics within 10mg of accuracy”
OK, so let's get into the meat of this. The most important thing here is the issue with the Anavar test report, submitted by a third party
I make Anavar 25mg per tablet, and I have done so for the last half decade. The issue brought up, is the accusation that we have no control over our dosing. The opposite is true. We have been using the same recipes for close to five years. The equipment we use for tablet manufacturing complies with GMP standard, and includes everything you need to make properly dosed products. I am not talking about TDP presses and geometric dilution- this setup consists of large volume GMP V-Blenders, powder micronizing units, and multiple GMP rotary tablet presses. Every person who is involved in the creation of Pareto products is highly educated, and I commend them on their attention to detail and work ethic.
I won't get into much detail in our injectable production, but in five years I have not had a report of debris, or uneven dispensing in our vials. We use digital machinery for mixing and dispensing all our our injectable based products- if you take 400 testosterone Enanthate vials and lay them side to side, there should be close to ZERO variation in fill levels. In short, we have spent the money required to be one of the highest quality labs in Canada.
As for my choice to make Anavar 25mg: If you would like to see my exact recipe, you can PM me- I have no issue sharing it with a well known member. You can argue for or against this, but the logic is this. Before the days of HPLC testing- you had to trust your raw supplier. Thus, it was better to be 'safe than sorry', meaning it's better to spend a little more money and give a slightly higher dose, if there was a chance the raw product wasn't pure. Given that this was the standard, I saw no reason to change it as time went by. Now, the forums operate one way, but the vast majority of sales are based on client feedback. The methods chosen at inception have resulted in a product that is sometimes slightly overdosed, well made, and free from risk of adverse health effects (infection, PIP, etc). I have made this my life's work, to make a product well, and create a strong brand. It's extremely frustrating to see the Pareto name dragged through the mud because of one tablet testing result.
Pareto was not always the large brand it was today, but the basic principles have remained basically unchanged since inception. Going back to the report submitted by a third party Pareto user, This explains why the first tablet is high powered. For the second, overdosed, tablet, I need to explain more about the production process.
We have multiple types of tablet presses at our warehouse, and each unit has it's pros and cons. To give a simple run down, you can compare our units to guns. Two most common assault rifles are the AK-47, and M16. The AK-47 is a very reliable weapon, and can withstand a very harsh environment without malfunction, or the need for repair. The drawback of the AK-47 is that it is less accurate that the M16. The M16 is a very accurate weapon, but is more temperamental, and more likely to fail under adverse conditions. So what does this mean for production of oral steroids?
We have units that are incredible reliable, durable, and are great for producing medium dosed tablets (5-25mg), but are less capable at handling high dose (50mg) or low dose (100 mcg) items. The reason for this is simply design. Less moving parts; no digital/computer controls, or hydraulic systems. These machines can run all day (and have been lately) with minimal repair or downtime.
For the outlier items, we have to use a more accurate and expensive machine. This is digitally controlled, and works extremely well. Now, you are probably thinking “Why don't you use this machine for everything?”
Great question. The motor on the advanced press is meant to be a 3 phase electric motor, but I had it converted into single phase. This was due to the lack of 3 phase power availability at the warehouse at the time. The result of this means we can not use the press as often as we would like due to risk of damaging the motor from the stress of running single phase. On top of this, I commissioned a specialized addition to help increase accuracy of tablet dosing. This part is prone to breaking, and creates a huge backlog when this occurs. As a result, this machine is only used for items such as clenbuterol, t3, viagra, cialis, etc.
Now that you have some background on the process, I will explain what I believe to have gone wrong with the Anavar result. Anavar is mostly done in the durable tablet press. The design of this press is a powder hopper, attached to a force feeder. When the powder hopper is nearly empty, the force feeder is able to spin freely and more easily push powder into the die. The result will be a heavier tablet- it will look darker, and be harder to break in half. This does not always happen, but can on occasion. This is the only logical reason for having a tablet variance close to 20%, as we employ pharmaceutical V- blenders for mixing of our tablet mix.
When I heard about the report, the first thing I did was e-mail Janoshik and ask what the weight of the tablet was. He did not have this measurement, as his method of testing does not call for this. The reason I asked, was because I have reason to believe that the overdosed tablet was one of these “hard tablets”.
As he was unable to give me this information, I took it upon myself to investigate further. I did a check up on production with my employee who is on control of oral production, and found that upon replication of the same Anavar batch, the tail end of the tablets would be heavier and harder. I corrected the process by instructing the employee to change the settings on the machine when the hopper is at a certain fill level, and it solved the issue.
I then put my attention to the report. Here is where I will admit a huge fault, and this is against all the MESO principles which I am proud to say I earned my salt on. I believed the overdosed tablet to be a one off issue which was now solved, I chose to remove that result from the test, as chalked it up to an outlier.
On the same note, for 100mcg tablets we do use a step blending method to achieve as close as possible to proper dosing. For those who don't understand what I mean, step-blending is a multi stage process where extremely small dosage APIs can be evenly distributed into large tablets. There is a reason why Pareto makes clenbuterol and T3 in the 100mcg dosage, and it is because step blending, while effective, is not a perfect process. I would always suggest to a client that they purchase pharmaceutical grade T3, or liquid Clenbuterol from Pareto, if they need sub 50mcg doses. I stand by this statement to this day- without wet granulation, you can not be 100% accurate at the mcg dosing level.
But going back to the edited report: I don't think much needs to be said on this, as many have pointed out and shown me that this basically nullifies the entire point of testing Pareto for the history of our operations. I get it, and I agree. It's the only time I have ever opted to do this, and I realize now that I caused more drama by my unethical action.
The statement that I feared, which has become the rally call for expulsion from SST, is that I am unable to control dosing of the products. I chose to remain silent on the issue, as it is well known that among the many forum users, many are involved with other labs. I would not be surprised if some of the users in this forum were not involved in competitor operations. Hell, I would be having a field day if my biggest competition got bad press like this! But remaining silent seemed the wrong choice, as I see now. I hope my explanation lends some insight into the process we use at Pareto, and I invite any question about our production methods.
I would reckon most sources on MESO or SST have not had the experience I have had with tablet production. Hell, I don't think many of our competitors even use a tablet machine, or have built one from the ground up like I have, multiple times. I would be curious to see the results from the capsules being created on a “CAP M QUIK” which other small outfits are clearly using.
Last edited:
This is our product. Years and years of day in day out tinkering and modifying recipes, methods, procedures, design- to bring the best possible oral and injectable preparations to our clients.
Thanks for reading, and if you have any questions, I will be around extensively the next little while to sort any issues out.
Thanks for reading, and if you have any questions, I will be around extensively the next little while to sort any issues out.
muscletrain
Well-known Member
This is our product. Years and years of day in day out tinkering and modifying recipes, methods, procedures, design- to bring the best possible oral and injectable preparations to our clients.
Thanks for reading, and if you have any questions, I will be around extensively the next little while to sort any issues out.
Those of us in Canada that have used the bigger labs for years typically know its good quality but one of the things you're gonna run into on meso which we blasted Stanford for is the larger Canadian labs definitely do side step the whole "post your lab/operation" photos probably cause Meso is one of the many boards they are on so its just the typical intro thread/product pics.
Now that you're in the thread Pareto do you guys sometimes swap MCC for Sucrose? I know I got a solid explanation on FTIR from you but I think Run Fuck Tren and ours both showed MCC on the packaging while the reports both said Sucrose + Oxandralone. Personally do not care what the binder/filler is as long as the API is the right one.
Yes I remember your issues with “letsgetchecked” I believe it was. FTIR isn’t great at determining the results you were looking for.
We have changed the tablet filler blend to add in a type of pharmaceutical tableting sucrose to help with tablet hardness and uniformity. It’s used alongside cellulose to create a harder tablet with a more consistent weight.
RunTrenFckTens
Member
Wet or dry granulation?
muscletrain
Well-known Member
My knowledge is limited but isn't wet granulation the next level shit that pharma companies use for super accurate dosing ie. mcg etc? I'd be surprised (pleasantly) if UGLs were doing this or anything besides using V-mixers.
RunTrenFckTens
Member
Well if they are running multiple rotary presses with huge v-mixers already I don't think it would be that much of an issue to buy a wet granulator.
It ensures homogeneous mixture of the API to the binder, so when you split your 20mg var you don't end up with 1mg on one side of the tablet and 19mg on the other. Even v-mixers can create "hot spots"
This is why labs don't bother to talk to the common consumer about their process. You saying that wet granulation isn't much different than powder blending using a V blender is a shining example of this.
While we are on the topic of upgrades, they should using enteric coating, and sell the tablets in blister packs as well. Surely it's no hassle- and it'll impress the bro scientists at MESO.
Here is what you are suggesting, if you didn't know. None of these steps are required for simple powder blending
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