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Chemman's log

Numbness and tingling still there but definitely decreasing. So that's good. Mood is doing a lot better. Clomid is some strong stuff! It's still doing something, one week later. I feel like it is wearing off though. Nighttime wood not as noticeable anymore. Joints feeling crackly again. I'm back to getting shaky if I don't eat something every hour or so. To me that seems like an adrenal gland problem. Or maybe my testosterone is coming back down and I'm feeling weakness from that.

I really think I need to try a different SERM.
 
That is my inclination. Now I just need my council to approve and write the script...

Definitely bummed about the clomid. I really thought that it was my ticket out of this disaster. And there's no gurantee that nolvadex will be tolerable either. Literally praying that I can handle it and that it works.
 
chemman said:
That is my inclination. Now I just need my council to approve and write the script...

Definitely bummed about the clomid. I really thought that it was my ticket out of this disaster. And there's no gurantee that nolvadex will be tolerable either. Literally praying that I can handle it and that it works.
Click to expand...

Tonight I pray for you as well.
 
Just logging another update.

Numbness is about 98% gone. Thank God. So I'm done worrying about that. But along with the numbness wearing off, the good effects of the clomid are starting to depart. Weak erections are back and I just feel like I don't have the energy, interest, or confidence for sex. Joints feel weak. My shins feel weird. Basically my bones feel less than stable. Seems like some of the depression and anxiety has lifted post-clomid so that's a plus. Definitely experiencing some fatigue. My right ankle is still fucked. It was definitely getting better while on clomid so I'm assuming at this point that it has something to do with androgen levels.

I've been doing some preliminary research on tamoxifen in regards to safety and long-term effects. After reading about how carcinogenic the compound is, I am a little weary of the drug.

So right now my choices look like TRT or a tamoxifen restart. And I need to figure something out soon. My body is falling apart.

Can anyone suggest a restart protocol using tamoxifen only?
 
Dropped into my local gp office for another look at the ankle and got some x-rays. I'll find out soon what the deal is there. Went over my labs and current situation just to see what he thought. Even with T levels as low as mine, doctor was not convinced that T was my problem. He ordered TSH, total T, free T, arthritis panel. I'm willing to bet that my T is higher than 2 months ago but still less than ideal.

Doc said that most of his patients that he prescribes testosterone think it helps at first and then end up quitting...then I asked him what drug he uses: SURPRISE: androgel! If T comes back low again he will treat, but I will probably end up denying it because it will be 5g androgel or something to that extent. I'm not trying to do TRT with somebody who doesn't really believe in it and doesn't know how to prescribe it. I would trust him on many other subjects, but I don't think this is his forte.

And if T comes back "normal," I get the deluxe antidepressant special.
 
chemman said:
Dropped into my local gp office for another look at the ankle and got some x-rays. I'll find out soon what the deal is there. Went over my labs and current situation just to see what he thought. Even with T levels as low as mine, doctor was not convinced that T was my problem. He ordered TSH, total T, free T, arthritis panel. I'm willing to bet that my T is higher than 2 months ago but still less than ideal.

Doc said that most of his patients that he prescribes testosterone think it helps at first and then end up quitting...then I asked him what drug he uses: SURPRISE: androgel! If T comes back low again he will treat, but I will probably end up denying it because it will be 5g androgel or something to that extent. I'm not trying to do TRT with somebody who doesn't really believe in it and doesn't know how to prescribe it. I would trust him on many other subjects, but I don't think this is his forte.

And if T comes back "normal," I get the deluxe antidepressant special.
Click to expand...

Ask for a referral to someone who treats TRT more commonly, or ask him if you can do shots.
 
chemman said:
Numbness is about 98% gone. Thank God. So I'm done worrying about that. But along with the numbness wearing off, the good effects of the clomid are starting to depart. Weak erections are back and I just feel like I don't have the energy, interest, or confidence for sex. Joints feel weak. My shins feel weird. Basically my bones feel less than stable. Seems like some of the depression and anxiety has lifted post-clomid so that's a plus. Definitely experiencing some fatigue. My right ankle is still fucked. It was definitely getting better while on clomid so I'm assuming at this point that it has something to do with androgen levels.

So right now my choices look like TRT or a tamoxifen restart. And I need to figure something out soon. My body is falling apart.
Click to expand...

Clomid is a funny drug. On one hand, it boosts testosterone, on the other hand it can cause depression/mood issues.

I suppose the goal is to successfully "restart" and not have to use it anymore. Maybe you need to try a longer run, and then see if it sticks? I think you mentioned you only tried 4 doses.

I don't know much about nolva, so can't offer much in that regard.

Gluck man...
 
chemman said:
Dropped into my local gp office for another look at the ankle and got some x-rays. I'll find out soon what the deal is there. Went over my labs and current situation just to see what he thought. Even with T levels as low as mine, doctor was not convinced that T was my problem. He ordered TSH, total T, free T, arthritis panel. I'm willing to bet that my T is higher than 2 months ago but still less than ideal.

Doc said that most of his patients that he prescribes testosterone think it helps at first and then end up quitting...then I asked him what drug he uses: SURPRISE: androgel! If T comes back low again he will treat, but I will probably end up denying it because it will be 5g androgel or something to that extent. I'm not trying to do TRT with somebody who doesn't really believe in it and doesn't know how to prescribe it. I would trust him on many other subjects, but I don't think this is his forte.

And if T comes back "normal," I get the deluxe antidepressant special.
Click to expand...

I don't know if i'm a special case, but T Injections didn't help me much. I had no libido on T injections.

Not saying they won't help you, but it's interesting that the doctor said: "testosterone helps at first, and then end up quitting";

I think the body is pretty complex, and TRT is not a magic fix. It's a viable last ditch option, but only if you have tried everything else. Even if you get your testosterone fixed, you have to worry about HCG (for fertility and your boys). And then you have to constantly balance estrogen. It's an ongoing balancing act. So before you jump on it, try every option available to you.

There are some good natural T boosters out there, that might help. PM me, if you want to know which ones actually work.
 
Shit dude clomid worked great even after 4 doses at 25mg eod! My nuts got huge and I was sporting nighttime and morning wood for the first time in quite a while. Joints stopped feeling weird. But then my hands and feet started to feel tingly... and then numb... and then I quit clomid. So it's really not an option from here on out. I've been feeling better overall since the short burst of clomid, but I still don't feel quite right. My joints still feel weird and psychologically I'm not quite there (still having some anxiety/depression). I'm using nighttime wood, joints, and mood as my benchmark for T levels at this point. Progress is slow but present.
 
Tyler81 said:
I don't know if i'm a special case, but T Injections didn't help me much. I had no libido on T injections.

Not saying they won't help you, but it's interesting that the doctor said: "testosterone helps at first, and then end up quitting";

I think the body is pretty complex, and TRT is not a magic fix. It's a viable last ditch option, but only if you have tried everything else. Even if you get your testosterone fixed, you have to worry about HCG (for fertility and your boys). And then you have to constantly balance estrogen. It's an ongoing balancing act. So before you jump on it, try every option available to you.

There are some good natural T boosters out there, that might help. PM me, if you want to know which ones actually work.
Click to expand...

Helping at first and then quitting is a typical scenario with ANDROGEL. At this point, I don't even give a shit about having a good libido. That would be icing on the cake. If I can just get and keep a strong erection, I will be happy. I just want to be able to walk down the street without injuring myself, raise my arms without hearing all my bones grind together and my joints snap, and not suffer from depression and anxiety.
 
Chem did you want the nutra eval ? If so pm me
I am going to talk to dr O about trying nolvedex since clomid made you feel not good.
Are you willing to try HCG as a temporary measure till we can assertain where the imbalances are.
Nolvadex may be the ticket in your case since it is LH. I think the toxins along with prolong stress from school really caused damgage to your HPTA. You nuts are fine we just have to figure out how to get signal out with out causing side effects.
 
Last edited:
hardasnails1973 said:
Chem did you want the nutra eval ? If so pm me
I am going to talk to dr O about trying nolvedex since clomid made you feel not good.
Are you willing to try HCG as a temporary measure till we can assertain where the imbalances are.
Nolvadex may be the ticket in your case since it is LH. I think the toxins along with prolong stress from school really caused damgage to your HPTA. You nuts are fine we just have to figure out how to get signal out with out causing side effects.
Click to expand...


Yes I agree with this. Maybe something like a HCG/nolvadex restart. Do HCG for a few weeks to prime the nuts and then get the nolvadex going. We'll see where these recent labs put me. I hope my insurance doesn't try to cut me off if they're "normal."

Nutreval is out of the question. Not covered by insurance.
 
chemman said:
Yes I agree with this. Maybe something like a HCG/nolvadex restart. Do HCG for a few weeks to prime the nuts and then get the nolvadex going. We'll see where these recent labs put me. I hope my insurance doesn't try to cut me off if they're "normal."

Nutreval is out of the question. Not covered by insurance.
Click to expand...

BCBS its 150 ..
 
I am B-R-O-K-E. I doubt even HCG and tamoxifen will be covered by my insurance so let's work on that for now.
 
A recent study showed the positive effects of maternal love and stress. Instead of taking cortisol, which has been shown to be harmful, it might be better to improve our family connections.


Seltzer LJ, Ziegler TE, Pollak SD. Social vocalizations can release oxytocin in humans. Proceedings of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences:-.
Social vocalizations can release oxytocin in humans — Proceedings B

Vocalizations are important components of social behaviour in many vertebrate species, including our own. Less well-understood are the hormonal mechanisms involved in response to vocal cues, and how these systems may influence the course of behavioural evolution. The neurohormone oxytocin (OT) partly governs a number of biological and social processes critical to fitness, such as attachment between mothers and their young, and suppression of the stress response after contact with trusted conspecfics. Rodent studies suggest that OT's release is contingent upon direct tactile contact with such individuals, but we hypothesized that vocalizations might be capable of producing the same effect.

To test our hypothesis, we chose human mother–daughter dyads and applied a social stressor to the children, following which we randomly assigned participants into complete contact, speech-only or no-contact conditions. Children receiving a full complement of comfort including physical, vocal and non-verbal contact showed the highest levels of OT and the swiftest return to baseline of a biological marker of stress (salivary cortisol), but a strikingly similar hormonal profile emerged in children comforted solely by their mother's voice. Our results suggest that vocalizations may be as important as touch to the neuroendocrine regulation of social bonding in our species.
 

Attachments

Time for a rant.

I keep thinking if tribulus terrestris was enough to destroy my HPTA, then I must be pretty screwed from a genetics standpoint (very weak HPTA). I'm really not convinced that it will hold after SERMs. And SERMs themselves seem unsafe and relatively unstudied in men. TRT has a 60 year safety record. I'm so tired of dicking around with this situation as I get weaker and weaker physically and psychologically.

HAN, I know you want to avoid putting me on TRT, but I am at my wits end. I think a well-planned TRT is necessary at this point. It has been one whole entire year and I have not recovered and I'm seriously struggling at this point. In a perfect world, we could spend months and months trying to see if my HPTA can recover. But at what cost? The cost is my health, both physical and mental.

OK my balls *might* work. But we have no true verification of this. And who is to say that my natural levels are even that good. Even before this year-long shitstorm of problems I was without morning wood and having erection problems. So even if I miraculously get my HPTA back to some kind of sub-optimal functioning, I am still going to have problems.

There is no guarantee that TRT will fix all of my problems, but I am more than willing to try it. At least it might help my bones heal, and that in itself is very important for me right now.
 
chemman said:
Time for a rant.

I keep thinking if tribulus terrestris was enough to destroy my HPTA, then I must be pretty screwed from a genetics standpoint (very weak HPTA). I'm really not convinced that it will hold after SERMs. And SERMs themselves seem unsafe and relatively unstudied in men. TRT has a 60 year safety record. I'm so tired of dicking around with this situation as I get weaker and weaker physically and psychologically.

HAN, I know you want to avoid putting me on TRT, but I am at my wits end. I think a well-planned TRT is necessary at this point. It has been one whole entire year and I have not recovered and I'm seriously struggling at this point. In a perfect world, we could spend months and months trying to see if my HPTA can recover. But at what cost? The cost is my health, both physical and mental.

OK my balls *might* work. But we have no true verification of this. And who is to say that my natural levels are even that good. Even before this year-long shitstorm of problems I was without morning wood and having erection problems. So even if I miraculously get my HPTA back to some kind of sub-optimal functioning, I am still going to have problems.

There is no guarantee that TRT will fix all of my problems, but I am more than willing to try it. At least it might help my bones heal, and that in itself is very important for me right now.
Click to expand...

Chem,

If I were you I would just get on some form of TRT. This is the way I look at it:
T-shots will help you out in the short and medium term. Perhaps in the somewhat near future a new class of SERM will be developed to treat hypogonadism (stuff like Androxal), and you will be able to sub that in at that point in time. Try shots for a few months and see if it helps.
 
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