Cialis/viagra - how long can u use?

[Britman]

Hi

It's a question I have asked before and not one that can really be answered conclusively since Viagra was only launched around 2000.

However of the people that use them what's the longest period you have used them? Ie what's your weekly regime (eg 20mg Cialis every 3 days) and how long you been using these drugs? Any issues along the way like they don't work and you need to swap to different one e.g Cialis to Viagra or taking a break from them then going back on?

I ask because I have low T (300-400ish) and these drugs seem to help in the main with exercise (both cardio and weights EOD) which I guess beats starting testosterone replacement therapy in my 30's.


I worry however that these will suddenly stop working during a relationship for example or that they start giving bad side effects (vision/real bad headaches/constant colds/flu) - most drugs lose their efficacy after a while but these drugs have not been around long enough for long term studies to be published so interested in everyone's thoughts/experiences

Thanks

 

[Dale338]

I'm not a doctor, but I've been using these drugs with varied results for about five years now. I take 30-50mg of Cialis probably literally every other day as I have a hot younger girlfriend and even add to that the occasional 15 mg or so of Levitra. I have yet to have any serious adverse sides of really any kind. The erection quality I get comes and goes it seems. Some days I can get rock hard on the drop of a hat and others it takes more time.

I want to take week long breaks here and there to see where I stand now without any medications, but my girlfriend wants almost daily sex, and I fear not getting it up way too much to make that happen.

I hope others will chime in and tell their experiences.

 

[foreveryoung]

necessary evil... I think it adversely affects my eyesight perhaps and adds to snoring and occasional headaches and backaches

I use a lot, but less lately as my libido has been better recently, buy still a pretty moderate amount

 

[Dr JIM]

The chances of ANY drug having been on the market for FIFTEEN YEARS, to develop some untoward, previously unknown side effect is ALMOST ZIP!

I have patients who have been using these drugs for years as ED therapy absent any problems, yet for some the beneficial effects have waned.

However the cause of any one patient's diminished response to PDEIs must be closely evaluated since the etiology of ED is itself multifactorial.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

PDE5i will increase testosterone.

 

[Britman]

Dale338

Your using the lower doses of both Viagra (max 100mg- assume you meant Viagra and Cialis max dose is 20mg here in UK at least) and Levitra (max 20mg) then so doubt there should be any issues using both alongside each other.

All I have ever done is try Cialis 10mg and max dose 20mg but the latter did not add any beneficial effect over the 10mg ..infact I thought the 10mg actually worked better. I have also tried Viagra twice. I prefer Cialis due to the longer lasting effect and I think its good for spontaneous erections and therefore penile health

Like you I think I may use both together at least to start with in any new relationship for obvious reasons. I think most people report Viagra erections are that bit better but taking one hour before sex is a pain. I plan on taking 10mg Cialis say on the Thurs and then 50mg of Viagra on the Sat if having sex on the Sat for example

Your gf wanting sex daily...thats quite a sexual appetite lol...does she not work I know I'm done in most nights during the week with work then gym and running about in between

What age are you if you don't mind me asking? I'm 36 and most girls I like/socialise with are 10 years younger..so I share your feelings with regards to having to be 'ready' all the time

 

[Britman]

Dr Jim

I realise all side effects will now have been duly noted but its a fact that long term studies can often reveal unknown correlations/side effects which are not apparent/conclusive with shorter term use. I have worked in the pharmaceutical industry for number of years and feel well placed to say this.

Also like you say do these drugs lose their efficacy over time or is that due to other factors...no studies so far can answer these types of questions.


Michael Scally "PDE5i will increase testosterone."

That's a very bold statement as I certainly have never read any corroborative and credible studies purporting this - can you provide any links to such studies or is this just a personal opinion of yours?


foreveryoung - yeah I have experienced the blocked sinus, runny nose and much more susceptible to getting colds it seems. No vision or back issues though thankfully.

When you say vision sides I hope not too serious?

How long have you been on Viagra? (what dose?) and what age are you if you don't mind me asking

 

[Yowzer]

Dale338

Your using the lower doses of both Viagra (max 100mg- assume you meant Viagra and Cialis max dose is 20mg here in UK at least) and Levitra (max 20mg) then so doubt there should be any issues using both alongside each other.

All I have ever done is try Cialis 10mg and max dose 20mg but the latter did not add any beneficial effect over the 10mg ..infact I thought the 10mg actually worked better. I have also tried Viagra twice. I prefer Cialis due to the longer lasting effect and I think its good for spontaneous erections and therefore penile health

Like you I think I may use both together at least to start with in any new relationship for obvious reasons. I think most people report Viagra erections are that bit better but taking one hour before sex is a pain. I plan on taking 10mg Cialis say on the Thurs and then 50mg of Viagra on the Sat if having sex on the Sat for example

Your gf wanting sex daily...thats quite a sexual appetite lol...does she not work I know I'm done in most nights during the week with work then gym and running about in between

What age are you if you don't mind me asking? I'm 36 and most girls I like/socialise with are 10 years younger..so I share your feelings with regards to having to be 'ready' all the time

 

[Yowzer]

"I think most people report Viagra erections are that bit better but taking one hour before sex is a pain" I find Viagra works well in 15 minutes on a fairly empty stomach. I would be surprised if the others are better. How do you guys stand the side effects of Cialis for two days? Is that something you get used to. Don't think I ever tried 20 mg but have also only tried generic from India. Is it possible the sides of brand Cialis are less?

 

[Yowzer]

Michael Scally "PDE5i will increase testosterone."

That's a very bold statement as I certainly have never read any corroborative and credible studies purporting this - can you provide any links to such studies or is this just a personal opinion of yours?

It seems that increased blood flow would possibly help test production. Perhaps someone should study Cialis due to the longer active life.
I find the added blood flow is good for libido despite manufacturer claims to the contrary.

 

[Britman]

Yowzer - I would only ever trying authentic drugs from a reputable pharma company. If you are buying generic Cialis from an unknown pharma co in India how can you be sure as to its potency amongst other things?

The pharma industry in the western world is highly regulated - ridiculously so. You can be assured of a drugs concentration and safety profile within the risk profiles outlined by the industry/manufacturer.

I don't really get too bad a sides with Cialis most of the time. If I do it will be mild headache/blocked sinus and more susceptible to the cold. I have only ever taken Viagra 4-5 times but not noted any bad sides that I can remember.

What age are you and how long you been taking viagra? Do you have low T?

Not sure about the theory on increased blood flow causing higher T production - why exactly would better blood flow cause higher T production?

I certainly feel better bloodflow to the testicles/penis is a good thing for penile health in general and probably therefore mood as well in terms of spontaneous erections - this in turn feeds onto libido. That's the reason I like taking Cialis as it lasts 3 days and helps with spontaneous erections which Viagra doesn't with its much shorter half life of course

 

[Dr JIM]

Dr Jim

I realise all side effects will now have been duly noted but its a fact that long term studies can often reveal unknown correlations/side effects which are not apparent/conclusive with shorter term use. I have worked in the pharmaceutical industry for number of years and feel well placed to say this.

Also like you say do these drugs lose their efficacy over time or is that due to other factors...no studies so far can answer these types of questions.


Michael Scally "PDE5i will increase testosterone."

That's a very bold statement as I certainly have never read any corroborative and credible studies purporting this - can you provide any links to such studies or is this just a personal opinion of yours?


foreveryoung - yeah I have experienced the blocked sinus, runny nose and much more susceptible to getting colds it seems. No vision or back issues though thankfully.

When you say vision sides I hope not too serious?

How long have you been on Viagra? (what dose?) and what age are you if you don't mind me asking

FIFTEEN YEARS far exceeds what most in medicine would consider a "long term" study for ANY DRUG!

The fact is the overwhelming majority of drugs that developed a significant adverse effect in the post marketing interval did so in the FIRST FIVE YEARS.

 

[Britman]

Dr Jim - my point is there are no published long term studies answering a whole range of questions.

Potentially someone could take these drugs from their 20's to their 80's let's say - that's 60 years ...4 X 15 years ...a considerable difference I'm sure you will agree

 

[Dr JIM]

No I don't agree, bc that's not what has been revealed with existing studies, which is the critical period approximates FIVE YEARS.

Can you name an exception, I suspect not!

Identify one drug in which a SIGNIFICANT adverse effect was noted after the FIVE YEAR post marketing interval?

 

[Dr JIM]

Michael Scally "PDE5i will increase testosterone."

That's a very bold statement as I certainly have never read any corroborative and credible studies purporting this - can you provide any links to such studies or is this just a personal opinion of yours?

Better keep reading then fella

I would have liked to post the entire citation but my Medline access is more limited outside the office.

And Doc I hope you don't mind but .......

 

[Britman]

Dr Jim

I'm not sure what I am meant to be debating here...

Quote: "No I don't agree, bc that's not what has been revealed with existing studies, which is the critical period approximates FIVE YEARS.
Can you name an exception, I suspect not!
Identify one drug in which a SIGNIFICANT adverse effect was noted after the FIVE YEAR post marketing interval?"


I have simply asked for peoples experiences on Viagra (or other PDE5 inhibitor if not) over a length of time which is way beyond what most others can report on i.e not a few years, not 5 years but 10-15 years since the products were launched.

Mt post was simply asking for other peoples opinions/experiences on whether or not the drugs are still working effectively for them over the long term and what dosage they use (age of person is notable point too) - a few posters have already answered to that effect. I wanted to know if the drugs still work after 10-15years (the longest period say) for these people - that was my main question...

And yes for the record there have been quite a few drugs which show adverse effects long after the product was marketed by said company. I've worked on a drug in the past which has resulted in the manufacturer being sued for millions as a result of misleading marketing statements with regards to side effects.

Quote: "Better keep reading then fella
I would have liked to post the entire citation but my Medline access is more limited outside the office."

OK so you have posted one journal which looks to be somewhat credible but I only skimmed over the summary...does the journal offer an explanation to the actual mechanisms of how testosterone is raised by taking PDE5 inhibitors?

I'm not sure how things work in the US but as with here in the UK I'm pretty sure you would need substantial corroborative evidence in the form of many journals/empirical studies showing the same conclusions otherwise it won't be taken seriously as being conclusive (quite rightly). So whilst I'm not dismissing your post it doesn't prove anything to me.

Btw can I just say for the record your tone comes across as quite condescending - and no one likes a smart ass...

 

[grey]

does the journal offer an explanation to the actual mechanisms of how testosterone is raised by taking PDE5 inhibitors?

Yes, the summary explanation is actually in the title and the hypothesis is listed in the conclusion.



Title: Sildenafil increases serum testosterone levels by a
direct action on the testes

Conclusions:
"The increases in serum total and free testosterone in conjunction with a significant decrease in serum LH levels with sildenafil therapy in men
with erectile dysfunction and low testosterone levels suggest a direct effect of sildenafil on the testis. Circulating concentrations of DHT and
oestradiol, which are derived mostly from peripheral conversion of testosterone, also increased. Taken together, these hormonal changes are most
consistent with a direct stimulatory effect of sildenafil on Leydig cell steroidogenesis, which likely resulted in the expected feedback inhibition of
LH secretion. Androstenedione and its metabolite oestrone rose from baseline to post-sildenafil. Although DHEAS levels did not change
significantly after sildenafil administration, we cannot exclude the possibility that sildenafil may also stimulate adrenal androgen synthesis."

 

[Dr JIM]

Dr Jim

I'm not sure what I am meant to be debating here...

Quote: "No I don't agree, bc that's not what has been revealed with existing studies, which is the critical period approximates FIVE YEARS.
Can you name an exception, I suspect not!
Identify one drug in which a SIGNIFICANT adverse effect was noted after the FIVE YEAR post marketing interval?"


I have simply asked for peoples experiences on Viagra (or other PDE5 inhibitor if not) over a length of time which is way beyond what most others can report on i.e not a few years, not 5 years but 10-15 years since the products were launched.

Mt post was simply asking for other peoples opinions/experiences on whether or not the drugs are still working effectively for them over the long term and what dosage they use (age of person is notable point too) - a few posters have already answered to that effect. I wanted to know if the drugs still work after 10-15years (the longest period say) for these people - that was my main question...

And yes for the record there have been quite a few drugs which show adverse effects long after the product was marketed by said company. I've worked on a drug in the past which has resulted in the manufacturer being sued for millions as a result of misleading marketing statements with regards to side effects.

Quote: "Better keep reading then fella
I would have liked to post the entire citation but my Medline access is more limited outside the office."

OK so you have posted one journal which looks to be somewhat credible but I only skimmed over the summary...does the journal offer an explanation to the actual mechanisms of how testosterone is raised by taking PDE5 inhibitors?

I'm not sure how things work in the US but as with here in the UK I'm pretty sure you would need substantial corroborative evidence in the form of many journals/empirical studies showing the same conclusions otherwise it won't be taken seriously as being conclusive (quite rightly). So whilst I'm not dismissing your post it doesn't prove anything to me.

Btw can I just say for the record your tone comes across as quite condescending - and no one likes a smart ass...

FOR THE RECORD I suspect the adage applies; a skunk smells its own hole first.

But I think you'll discover soon enough Meso members detest a visiting smart ass!

 

[Dale338]

I just wanted to clarify my use of these medications. I take on average about 30mg of Cialis every other day. Sometimes as much as 45mg and once every few weeks, I'll let 3-5 days pass between these doses as I realize it can buildup. A few hours before sex, I'll pop another 10mg a Levitra. This combination works wonders as of late, assuring rock hard erections. If I just use Cialis, I get hard, but it's inconsistent and not as hard. If I take just Levitra, I don't get the erection quality either. This is high dosing I know, but I have not had any major sides. Light back ache from the Cialis and that is it.

So on average I'm probably taking 100mg weekly of Cialis and another 30mg of Levitra.

Very limited sides!

 

[Britman]

Dr Jim

Quote"FOR THE RECORD I suspect the adage applies; a skunk smells its own hole first."

Typically nice comment then :/

"But I think you'll discover soon enough Meso members detest a visiting smart ass!"

Ah right so I am a visiting smart ass..the fact that I have been a member of this board since 2008 is lost on you then (3 years before you it would seem) ..guess you never bothered to check that one out. But hey I'm just a dumb ass so ignore any of my comments

Dale338 and grey - thanks for your input

Dale338 - 30mg of Cialis seems pretty high (esp daily)? - I have been given option of 10mg or 20mg every 3 days (20mg is highest does in UK)...did you start at a lower dose a no of years ago and you are having to increase the dosage to get the same effectiveness?

Guess depends on your age too as already said (not sure what age you are)

Never tried levitra myself but both claims and viagra are pretty decent (cialis can be bit hit or miss for me)