"Conservative values" as practiced by the Bush administration means a big government, activist Republican party.jbiggs said:
Now, how is that being a true conservative?
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Now, how is that being a true conservative?
administrator said:
But is Kerry's plan any better??? I mean his plan is tax the rich and give to the poor. He is robin hood of the modern era.
This is what is wrong with the democratic party.....their policies do not encourage hard work and drive within the work force...they are just gonna "give everything to those less fortunate because we failed them in society by letting them fall thru the cracks".
In order for the democrats to keep their base, they must keep the uneducated and poor uneducated and poor. They have done a good job doing that in the past.
administrator said:
This statement alone shows you don't understand Conservative values. Values have nothing to do with the size of government or an activist party. Values are what you stand for in your heart.
Kayz said:
You forgot scare the seniors! The ideas they scare with would never get through Congress even if W tried to.
Yes, I acknowledge your definition of value. But you are wrong when you state that "values have nothing to do" with government size and activism. They don't necessarily have to be related and most often they should not be related. (No doubt, you can clearly see how liberal values result in activist and expanded government. Why can't you see the connection here?)jbiggs said:
Your statement more clearly shows that you do not recognize how the Bush values have been implemented in public policy decisions.
Oh come on now!?! AFter I went on and on about most people's inability to discuss conservative policy without using Kerry as a scapegoat to change the subject, you throw this bullshit back at me?Kayz said:
How about this?
Fuck Kerry? Let's pretend we live in a world where liberals and Democrats and John Kerry, most of all, do not exist. I would think this would be conservative utopia for you guys. This is what I'm trying to do here - but all any of you want to do is talk about Kerry. Kerry this... Kerry that... Enough!
It's as if you can't exist without there being a liberal or Democrat in the room? You aren't really that lost without Kerry or liberals to keep you warm and cozy, can you?
Can't you just play along?
Of course there is. How convenient. Why should anyone be upset at the liberal spending of the Republican controlled Congress and Bush administration? After all, they have good conservative values. Actions don't matter, it's what you feel "in your hearts" that's important.jbiggs said:
LOL.........
Okay, I'll talk about Bush again:
1) I fully agree with the war on terrorism in general and the war in Iraq. I think Bush is handling it very well.
2) I agree with the tax breaks as my family benefitted greatly from them. As small business owners, we always do better under a Republican in office...ALWAYS!!!! I'm a greedy, selfish piece of shit who only cares about myself and my family....that is it.
3) I agree with the outsourcing of jobs in order for corporations to save money. American consumers are constantly fucking crying about the cost of goods in this country....well what in the hell do you think the cost of goods would be if everything was made here in the States??? The same people bitching about losing their jobs overseas (when in reality they gave it away by demanding hihg pay, tons of overtime, 3 weeks vacation time a year, full insurance package, and etc) are the ones shopping at Wal Mart every weekend.
4) I dont' think all Americans are 'ENTITLED' to health insurance and I agree with Bush that a government run health care system (i.e.: socialism) is the wrong thing to do. It all goes back to survival of the fittest: those who are strong and able to provide for their families will survive and procreate; those who are weak and cannot provide for their own will die!!!!!
5) I disagree with Affirmative Action and I"m glad Bush has done nothing to advance this flawed concept. Blacks want equal rights, but they want everything handed to them at the white mans expense. LIke in the movie "25th Hour" with Edward Furlong: "slavery ended 150 years ago....move the fuck on!!)
6) I think Bush has done too much for welfare. I disagree with him there....I think all welfare should be abolished. Instead, give a dollar for dollar tax break for those who contribute financially to groups/organizations whose goal is to take care of the needy and less fortunate. People are good at heart and will take care of others.....IF they able to do so at their leisure, not the governments.
7) I agree with Bush that social security should be privatized for younger workers like myself. Social Secrity will be bankrupt in 10 years, so pumping more money into it the way Kerry proposes is just delaying the inevitable IMO. Fix it.
8) I agree with Bush on guns. Kerry says he's for guns, but his voting record show otherwise. Hunter my ass.
9) I agree with Bush on abortion. I do not believe a woman has the "right" to kill her child as a form of birth control. There are many forms of contraception....pregnancy really shouldn't even be an issue these days. I support (like Bush) abortion in the event of rape or incest. I also agree with abortion if the mothers life is endangered.
10) I agree with Bush on gay marriage, although I don't know if I support a constitutional amendment to change that. But, I do believe marriage is to be between a woman and a man.
Any other issues you'd like me to address????
Okay, I'll talk about Bush again:
1) I fully agree with the war on terrorism in general and the war in Iraq. I think Bush is handling it very well.
2) I agree with the tax breaks as my family benefitted greatly from them. As small business owners, we always do better under a Republican in office...ALWAYS!!!! I'm a greedy, selfish piece of shit who only cares about myself and my family....that is it.
3) I agree with the outsourcing of jobs in order for corporations to save money. American consumers are constantly fucking crying about the cost of goods in this country....well what in the hell do you think the cost of goods would be if everything was made here in the States??? The same people bitching about losing their jobs overseas (when in reality they gave it away by demanding hihg pay, tons of overtime, 3 weeks vacation time a year, full insurance package, and etc) are the ones shopping at Wal Mart every weekend.
4) I dont' think all Americans are 'ENTITLED' to health insurance and I agree with Bush that a government run health care system (i.e.: socialism) is the wrong thing to do. It all goes back to survival of the fittest: those who are strong and able to provide for their families will survive and procreate; those who are weak and cannot provide for their own will die!!!!!
5) I disagree with Affirmative Action and I"m glad Bush has done nothing to advance this flawed concept. Blacks want equal rights, but they want everything handed to them at the white mans expense. LIke in the movie "25th Hour" with Edward Furlong: "slavery ended 150 years ago....move the fuck on!!)
6) I think Bush has done too much for welfare. I disagree with him there....I think all welfare should be abolished. Instead, give a dollar for dollar tax break for those who contribute financially to groups/organizations whose goal is to take care of the needy and less fortunate. People are good at heart and will take care of others.....IF they able to do so at their leisure, not the governments.
7) I agree with Bush that social security should be privatized for younger workers like myself. Social Secrity will be bankrupt in 10 years, so pumping more money into it the way Kerry proposes is just delaying the inevitable IMO. Fix it.
8) I agree with Bush on guns. Kerry says he's for guns, but his voting record show otherwise. Hunter my ass.
9) I agree with Bush on abortion. I do not believe a woman has the "right" to kill her child as a form of birth control. There are many forms of contraception....pregnancy really shouldn't even be an issue these days. I support (like Bush) abortion in the event of rape or incest. I also agree with abortion if the mothers life is endangered.
10) I agree with Bush on gay marriage, although I don't know if I support a constitutional amendment to change that. But, I do believe marriage is to be between a woman and a man.
Any other issues you'd like me to address????
I think this will be a huge issue within the Republican party. While Bush's approach to the war on terrorism maybe still be strongly debated, I think internal trends suggest that conservatives do not feel Bush has handled the war in Iraq well. Rather than debate this, I just want to suggest that this will be one issue that will be subject heated discussion within the the Republican party - not so much now, as they have to get re-elected, but afterwards (assuming Bush wins the election). Then they will be free to express their disapproval and dissent. Prediction on my part.Kayz said:
And please don't cry out that Kerry will do a worse job at the war on terror and war in iraq. That's not the point.
Vote for your self-interest. Can't argue about doing what's best for your family. Overall, I think most people don't have a clue as to whether they are voting for their self-interest or against their self-interest; it's not general a straightforward proposition.Kayz said:
But keep in mind, self-interest isn't necessarily consistent with a principled stand.
It's inevitable. This free market position is historically consistent with the Republican party platform.Kayz said:
When all the poor people's jobs were sent over to China, Republicans were very enthusiastic about the benefits of outsourcing and free markets.
However, now that $80,000+ per year jobs are being outsourced to India and China, a lot of Republicans are less enthusiastic in their support.
Principles are principles. But self-interest isn't necessarily consistent with a principled stand.
Not that there is anything wrong with changing your positions based on self-interest. But I prefer people who have principled beliefs.
Does Bush's (alleged) plan to privatize Social Security "fix" Social Security?Kayz said:
administrator said:
No, I'm not an expert on SS and I won't pretend like I am one. I don't have any answers on how to "fix it".....but I do believe pumping more money into it and sticking with the status quo is not the right thing to do.
People are living longer, health care costs are rising, and now the baby boomers of 30 years ago are retiring......and the money just isn't there.
We can't fix what has been done in the past, but we can make changes for the future. AS a 24 year old college grad with a good business mind, I fully believe that I can secure a better retirement for myself and my family by investing my own money. I don't feel that it is my responsibility to pay for those who did not take care of their responsibilities 20 years ago. My grandparents are VERY well off, so are my parents, and pretty much everyone else in my family. I will do the same for myself and my family.
I don't want a handout and don't expect one. All I want is to manage my own retirement money in the way I see fit. If I lose it all, that is my problem to deal with.....noone elses.
administrator said:
If you read my previous post...I have always stated I diagree with W's lack of fiscal restraint. Surely you must see there is a difference between social values and economic values. When I'm talking Conservative values it's these social areas that I'm talking about.
Of course actions are what matter, that's why conservatives look at Kerry's actions over the last twenty years and run to the polls to vote for W.
This...
and this...Kayz said:
is why I think that this...Kayz said:
will not succeed and that the following will not happen...Kayz said:
Kayz said:
administrator said:
...so you are implying that I am not an inherently good person??? Wow, that is a bld statement considering you dont' know me or my motives for making those statements.
I don't speak for everyone administrator.....just myself. There are millions of people who will gladly give to charities to take care of others...just not me. I will take care of my family, friends, and myself.
I'm the first to admit that I'm pretty extreme in my views...but they are my views. And for you to fucking imply that I'm not a good person because of my opinions is highly offensive. But, I dont' care what you think, so fuck it.
Kayz said:
Is that a Flame?
Kayz said:
Him, sounded like a "personal attack" to me?
esco
New Member
i would do the same kayz .... btw-admin, in your responses you keep saying you dont want to hear this that or this isnt the point ... when somebody responds to your comments, they can make it a point ... you do not dictate where the discussion goes just because you dont want to hear it. your views or beliefs arent right just because you think so. just my .02
This is not at all what I'm doing. I hope this is as clear as day to everyone except you.esco said:
I asked about whether Bush's lack of fiscal discipline was of concern to true conservatives. I suggest it is.
Answering by saying "Kerry is a liberal" doesn't address my question.
If you asked someone in the gym what anabolic steroids they thought would comprise an effective bulking stack, and they started spouting out some irrelevant bullshit about how bee pollen mixed with st john's wort would put on some quality muscle...
I guarantee that you'd be irritated too.
I just want people to answer the friggin question and stop trying to reframe the question to fit their pre-packaged answer.
But you're right, I can't make anyway give me an honest, straightforward answer. However, I sure wish more people were willing to do this.
Get it?
administrator said:
Damn...On my first or second post, I answered your exact question. Just because it wasn't the answer I guess I was suppose to give, doesn't mean I didn't answer it!
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